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Hamas Postpones Hostage Release; Super Bowl Blowout; Judge Hears Arguments on Legal Challenge to Federal "Buyout" Offer. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired February 10, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:5]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Will the buyout be blocked? Right now, a federal judge is deciding whether the administration's resignation offer to federal employees is actually legal.

Plus, we're following breaking news in the Middle East after Hamas postpones the next hostage release, claiming that Israel has broken the terms of its ceasefire deal.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a Super bowl showdown in the Big Easy that was just a little too easy. How the Philadelphia Eagles dominated the gridiron. We're following these stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar in our nation's capital. And starting right now, a high stakes hearing on President Trump's so called buyout offer to nearly two million federal employees. Federal Judge George O'Toole, a Clinton appointee, paused last Thursday's deadline for workers to take the deferred resignation program. And in just moments, he is set to hear arguments about the legality of Trump's plan and decide whether to extend that freeze.

KEILAR: And the White House is saying that at least 65,000 federal workers have opted into the program so far. But federal employee unions who are suing to block it say it is a, quote, unlawful short fused ultimatum. We're joined now by Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid and CNN Legal Analyst Carrie Cordero as well.

So, Paula, last Thursday is when Judge O'Toole initially put the pause on this, pushed it until at least today, although we're going to have to see what happens here. But what have both sides been using this time for?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, this is really high stakes for the Trump administration and for federal employees potentially making this life changing decision. But lawyers for unions representing federal workers, they are asking the judge to press the government to get assurances that this is actually legal because unions have been encouraging people not to agree to this because it's not clear the Trump administration can actually enforce this, right? The agreement is that you resign now and you're paid through September. But it's not clear that would actually happen. What's interesting to me in speaking with sources who are contemplating taking this offer, you know, very few of them are really following too closely this litigation. Instead, a lot of them are operating out of fear.

They say, look, no matter what happens with this litigation, legit or not, if I don't take this, I'm afraid if I don't take this and I don't pledge loyalty to Trump, they'll find some other reason to fire me and I will lose my pension and these other benefits. So the direct impact, the immediate impact of this offer has been to instill a lot of fear. And now we're watching to see what the court said about its enforceability and legitimacy.

SANCHEZ: Carrie, for those 65,000 that have already accepted this resignation offer, do they have any protections or any recourse if, say, the government funding fight in March yields no benefit to them?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah. Well, I think that's a lot of what this suit by the unions is about, is whether or not these individuals who have taken it, whether or not basically, this action by the Trump administration is lawful. And it's going to depend on an interpretation of the Constitution, on an interpretation on something called the Administrative Procedure Act, which sets how government agencies can set rules.

And the question, really, the bigger picture that the court is going to have to look at is whether or not the Trump administration, in this particular case and the federal government gave people appropriate notice as required by law, and whether or not they're basically subverting Congress authority to appropriate money that runs the agencies. And so that's why we get into these questions about whether or not people will be paid, because this is tied to congressional appropriations of funding the agencies.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. Money, we should point out, that has not yet been appropriated, that's supposed to go to these employees. Paula, how do collective bargaining acts or agreements, I should say, impact this?

REID: Well, it depends. You ask, right? Because the Trump administration insists this offer is complies with collective bargaining agreements. But the unions are saying, wait a second, it's unclear what this even is. It was done very quickly. It's not clear they have the power to do this.

Now, the best thing about unions for these federal workers is they have the ability, the power, the staffing to bring these lawsuits very quickly. It's much more difficult, much more costly for an individual to do that. So they are at least getting these questions in front of a judge. But the sides are in no way aligned on whether this actually comports with the larger contracts that unions have negotiated for their employees.

KEILAR: And, Carrie, you have the Vice President posting on social media that courts cannot basically impede the legitimate executive function. Here's what he says. Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power.

We just spoke with a state attorney general, a Democrat, who views this as Vance.

[14:05:00]

And the Trump administration kind of a shot across the bow, saying, hey, some of this we don't see as legitimate court interfering or sort of a court opinion here. If they disagree with it. What do you make of what you're hearing?

CORDERO: Well, so what's interesting is it's actually contrary. The Vice President's statement is contrary to what traditionally was a conservative legal argument regarding the power of agencies and the role of courts. And there was actually a big decision that came out this summer from the Roberts Supreme Court that cut back on agencies ability to interpret the law. In that case, it was there during the prior administration. It was the Roberts Court, this pretty conservative Supreme Court, and it overturned 40 years of precedent of deference to government agencies in determining how they interpret the law. And so the current Supreme Court has spoken just within the past year on the issue of the fact that, no, it's courts that interpret the law.

SANCHEZ: Carrie and Paula, thank you both so much. Let's get some perspective on this critical hearing with Max Alonzo. He is the Secretary Treasurer for the National Federation of Federal Employees, one of the unions suing to block the Trump administration's deferred resignation program. Alonzo, thank you so much -- Max, I should say, thank you so much for joining us. What do you hope will come of today's hearing?

MAX ALONZO, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEES: Well, you know, we're hoping for good news here, Boris. Thanks for having me on. You know, I really think that the public -- the American public doesn't really understand who the federal worker is. There's been a narrative that this is just a bunch of D.C. bureaucrats' teleworking.

And that's the furthest thing from the truth. Only 13% of our federal workers actually work in D.C. the majority, 87%, are out in the public. They are the VA nurses, they are the wildland firefighters, you know, the people getting our passports to us so we can travel. That's the majority of these federal workers. They're not just bureaucrats sitting at home teleworking right now.

SANCHEZ: If you could get some assurances from the White House, Max, some guarantees, would you reverse that advice to your members against resigning?

ALONZO: Would I reverse the --

SANCHEZ: Yeah. You've urged members -- you've urged members to not take this resignation offer. But if the White House were to provide some kind of guarantee that they would be paid through September, would you reconsider that advice?

ALONZO: Well, listen, I'm not going to tell people what they should do with their lives, but I do believe that the majority of our civil servants in the federal sector there are there for a reason. They love their jobs. They do service to this country. They help our, you know, our citizens out in so many different ways.

I don't think everybody is just waiting to resign. I think that there is a job to be done. We don't have enough civil service in this country as it is. And to just blanketly try to get these folks to resign from their careers seems extremely, you know, they have not thought this through. So, no, I don't. I would not urge people to take a resignation out of fear that they're going to be fired.

I don't believe that reducing this workforce is going to do anything for the American people. The work has to get done. We're just going to pay three times more to a contractor that doesn't know how to do the work as good as these folks that have dedicated their whole lives to this career.

SANCHEZ: I also want to get your thoughts on what Vice President JD Vance said, questioning how courts are blocking some of Trump's agenda. He argues that some decisions have disregarded what he describes as the executive's legitimate power. What do you say?

ALONZO: You know, I think that we've seen that this administration thinks that they are the only voice, the only source of power in this country right now, and that's just not true. You know, we have our judicial branch, we have our legislative branch, and we have the administrative branch. And for some reason, they don't see the other, you know, the other branches of government having power for. And that's just not true. And I think we all know that as Americans, that that is not the way this country has ever operated.

SANCHEZ: I also wonder how this back and forth might have an impact on the future of the federal workforce in terms of who would want to work for the federal government. Do you have concerns about that?

ALONZO: I sure do.

[14:10:00]

I mean, the federal sector pays quite a bit less than the private sector in almost every, you know, career. The people that come to the federal government, there's some stability. You know you're doing really good work. You know who you're working for. You're working for the American people.

But I can tell you a quick story. I had some firefighters that worked two weeks on the LA fires, totally out of season, came down from Oregon to work on these fires in California. They got home to find out that, you know, there was a letter saying, resign now. Your job is not safe.

What a slap in the face to our federal workers, our civil servants that are just out there trying to protect us in a lot of cases. I mean, why would you want to come back? You know, why would you want to be here if you work for a government that doesn't believe that you bring any value?

SANCHEZ: Max Alonzo, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate you coming on and sharing your point of view.

ALONZO: Thank you very much, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Brianna?

KEILAR: And this just in. Sources telling CNN that President Trump is planning to pardon former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is with us now. Jeff, tell us what you're learning here.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, we are learning that the President, perhaps as early as this afternoon, intends to pardon, as you said, Rod Blagojevich, of course, a former Illinois governor, former member of Congress. He was sentenced to about 14 years in prison. He served about eight of those years.

But his relationship with the President goes back more than a decade. He was a contestant on a celebrity apprentice. We all remember when the President who long before he was actually running, he said, you're fired, to Rod Blagojevich. There was a moment there that connected the two of them. But the sentence of Blagojevich has already been commuted by the President. He lowered the sentence, but today we're told there's going to be a full pardoning.

Now, Blagojevich was a longtime Democrat, but he supported the Trump campaigns. He's visited with the President in Mar-a-Lago. So a bit unclear why the timing is coming right now. But this is just one more example of the work that has been essentially lining up on the President's desk. He wants to get a lot of things out, and we're told that this is one of the examples.

But Brianna, this is sort of back in the Wayback Machine here. He was convicted, of course, for trying to sell Barack Obama's senate seat after he was elected president back in 2008. So a long journey for Rod Blagojevich, who served eight years in a federal prison in Colorado, apparently going to be pardoned today.

KEILAR: Yeah, it does feel like the way back machine. And yet I remember it --

ZELENY: It sure does.

KEILAR: -- like it was yesterday. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much for the latest there from the White House.

And still to come, protests in Tel Aviv after Hamas postpones its next hostage release, accusing Israel of violating its cease fire agreement.

And President Trump says he's announcing hefty new tariffs today. We're going to take a look at what impact they could have. Plus, Democrats plot a strategy in a potential government shutdown fight with President Trump. They'll tell you what leverage they may have.

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[14:18:13]

SANCHEZ: We're following some breaking news out of the Middle East. Israel's Defense Minister telling the IDF to be on the highest level of alert after Hamas announced it will delay the next scheduled release of hostages.

KEILAR: Yet they were supposed to be freed next Saturday. But Hamas is now accusing Israel of breaking their cease fire terms. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv. Jeremy, walk us through this, what Hamas is alleging and how Israel is responding here.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hamas is accusing Israel of committing several violations of the cease fire agreement. They point to things that have happened in the past, like the delay of the return of Palestinians to the northern part of the Gaza Strip, which Israel at the time said was, because Hamas didn't release a hostage that it was supposed to at the time when it should have.

And they also point two things that are still ongoing, including, they say that Israel is obstructing the entry of shelter equipment, such as tents, but also critically, these prefabricated homes that have not yet entered the Gaza Strip, according to Hamas. We've yet to get a response from the Israeli government to that specific allegation.

But what we do know is that the Israeli government is reacting to this threat to delay the release of the hostages scheduled for this coming Saturday. As a result, with the Israeli Defense Minister, Israel Katz, saying that he has told the Israeli military to be on its, quote, highest alert for any possible scenario in the Gaza Strip. He also says that Hamas's statement amounts to a very serious violation of the ceasefire.

Now, importantly, we actually just got a follow up statement from Hamas. The initial statement came from Abu Obaida, the spokesman for Hamas's al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas. And this statement is coming from Hamas, the political movement, saying in a statement that they are issuing this statement five days ahead of time in order to give the mediators quote, "sufficient time to pressure Israel to fulfill its obligations," making clear, as they say here, that this quote "leaves the door open for the exchange to proceed as planned."

[20:20:18]

So perhaps not a walk back, but making clear that this is a threat that Hamas is making here that could be averted should the mediators and should Israel take action to remedy some of these violations that Hamas is alleging. And so I think it's clear that while this represents perhaps the most serious threat to the cease fire that we have seen so far, in particular because it comes at such a sensitive time in Israel following the images of those three emaciated newly released hostages on Saturday, it's also quite clear that this is a threat by Hamas and something that could be addressed by the mediators.

We know, of course, that in the past Israel had delayed the return of Palestinians to northern Gaza by several days. But that issue was ultimately remedied in conversations with the mediators and led to an earlier release than planned of that hostage, Arbel Yehud, as well as two additional Israeli hostages.

So this is part of any ceasefire agreement. You're going to see accusations of violations. You're going to see threats. The question is how will Israel respond to this and whether these alleged violations that Hamas is accusing Israel of can indeed be remedied in time for the hostages release on Saturday to go forward as planned.

SANCHEZ: Jeremy Diamond, live from Tel Aviv for us. Thank you so much, Jeremy. Joining us now is CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst Barak Ravid. He's also a politics and foreign policy reporter for Axios. Barak, what are you hearing from your sources in Israel about this?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think the Israeli government at the moment is still trying to figure out whether this Hamas announcements are truly because of, you know, tactical issues on the ground about how many makeshift homes were allowed to go into Gaza, how many bulldozers to clear out debris has been allowed into Gaza, or whether it's a much bigger issue that has something to do with phase two of this deal.

The negotiations on phase two are supposed to start last week. They still haven't started. So I think Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Netanyahu and his top aides who are meeting now in Jerusalem, are trying to figure out whether it's a tactical thing or something which is much more strategic.

KEILAR: And complicating that we see the pictures coming from Tel Aviv. You have families, you have supporters of the families taking to the streets. Barak, what is the domestic pressure on Netanyahu in this and how is that being perceived by Netanyahu and those close to him?

RAVID: I think the pressure has been increasing quite dramatically since the hostages started coming out. And especially after last Saturday when the last three hostages who were released came out in a very, very bad physical condition. It created a wave of pressure on the government, both in, you know, demonstrations on the streets and both by statements by families of hostages were released and families of hostages who are still in Hamas captivity.

And I think the number one issue you hear from hostage families is deep concern that both Netanyahu -- or a deep concern that Netanyahu managed to convince President Trump that phase two of the deal is not that important and that the resumption of the war is more crucial at the moment.

SANCHEZ: I just want to let our viewers know, a moment ago we were looking at live pictures of protests in Tel Aviv following this announcement by Hamas. Barak, I want to play some sound for you of President Trump speaking to reporters on Air Force One. And he was talking about Palestinians right to return to Gaza after it's supposedly redeveloped by the United States. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH & 47TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I think that it's a big mistake to allow people, the Palestinians or the people living in Gaza to go back yet another time. And we don't want Hamas going back. And think of it as a big real estate site and the United States is going to own it and will slowly, very slowly, we're in no rush develop it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Barak, how do those comments have an impact on the situation right now and how could they shape the second phase of the cease fire deal?

RAVID: So they definitely have an impact. And you know, there are some Israeli officials who are involved in the negotiations that think that this is also a signal by Hamas that they, you know, that they -- it's their way to push back on Trump's recent comments about moving Palestinians out of Gaza.

[14:25:14]

And also a signal by Hamas that if Netanyahu is not going to seriously negotiate on the phase -- of the second phase of the deal, then maybe not in the -- maybe phase one will not be implemented in its entirety and not all the hostages in phase one will be released. And I think that Trump said something very interesting on Air Force One in addition to what you just showed. He said that there's a dribble of hostages coming out and that at a certain point and that he starts to lose his patience.

And I think the number one question is whether President Trump is going to say, now listen, I'm not going to have like the situation of every week another three hostages. Everyone who is now held by Hamas, I want them out as part of one big deal and not this phased approach. And I think that's the question whether Trump will go down that road or will continue down the current path.

SANCHEZ: Barak Ravid, thank you so much.

RAVID: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Up next. President Trump announcing new tariffs and teasing even more to come later this week. What and who is going to feel the impact? When we come back.

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