Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

DOGE's Power Expands As Fed Agencies Plan For Large-Scale Layoffs; Trump Orders To Cooperate With DOGE Despite Questions About Constitutionality; Senate Confirms Gabbard As Director Of National Intelligence; Senate Votes To Advance RFK Jr's Nomination As HHS Secy; Dozens of CFPB Employees Receive Termination Notices. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired February 12, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VP MIKE PENCE: When a Democratic president unilaterally gets rid of Republican programs or conservative programs that we like, like Border Patrol.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: But the thing is, he's just not giving advice. He's actually doing it. So -

(CROSSTALK)

SHORT: So I think that's

(CROSSTALK)

SHORT: So I think that's going to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

SHORT: I mean, I'm not -- I'm not --

(CROSSTALK)

SHORT: I think that's going to continue to be litigated, right? I mean, I'm not --

SANCHEZ: -- to -- to a degree.

SHORT: I do think that that's where the courts will step in. But again, I think that this is a challenge for Democrats, too.

Because just in the previous administration, the courts ruled that you can't take the taxpayer dollars --

SANCHEZ: Student loans.

SHORT: -- of hard-working Americans to pay off the --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I know where you're going with that SHORT: -- doctors and lawyers. And the Biden administration kept doing

it regardless.

SANCHEZ: I do want to get your thoughts, because you mentioned the courts taking care of it, on this tweet. I think we have it.

It's something Elon Musk just posted a few moments ago about this judge, who apparently ruled to put some health agencies Web sites back online that DOGE had taken down

Musk there tweeting, "This evil judge might be -- must be fired based on this accusation that he oversaw a case of one of the January 6th defendants who later committed suicide."

I don't want to get into that part of January 6th. There were law enforcement officers who committed suicide after that day.

But -- but focusing on the idea that you have Musk tweeting about judges and arguing that the judiciary should be ignored or overstepped by the executive, that flies in the face of what you're talking about, which is having a check by the judiciary on what the executive is doing.

SHORT: Absolutely. I mean, I think that, in many cases, conservatives and Republicans have gone along with abandoning the rule of law and order. And I think that that is a concern. And so certainly we should be respecting the decisions of judges.

I think, frankly, as President Trump said yesterday, you know, we can always appeal, but I don't think that means you can unilaterally decide which cases or decisions you accept or reject.

SANCHEZ: Or cyberbully judges. Is that -- is that OK?

SHORT: Well, no, no. Certainly not. Certainly not.

SANCHEZ: Marc Short, always appreciate the perspective. Thanks for joining us.

SHORT: Thanks. Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still plenty more news to come on NEWS CENTRAL. From divisive cabinet pick to leader of the U.S. Intelligence Community, details on Tulsi Gabbard's dramatic turnaround today on Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:36:22]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Just a short time ago, Senators confirmed Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence, despite significant bipartisan concerns about her lack of experience when it comes to intelligence and her past statements that seem to support American adversaries. SANCHEZ: This was, no doubt, controversial.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.

Manu, what are you hearing from lawmakers?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this came down almost along straight party lines, a 52-48 vote in the United States Senate.

There were a lot of Republicans initially concerned about some of her past statements involving Russia. Her push to get the charges dropped for Edward Snowden, who, of course, notoriously leaked lots of classified information.

But she was able to alleviate a lot of those concerns behind the scenes. And these pressure campaigns undoubtedly played somewhat of a role to some of those wavering Senators.

But there was one Republican Senator who broke ranks, the Senate Republican leader, former Senate Republican leader, current Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell.

Who put out a statement saying, "The Senate should withhold it's consent," because he said that "She did not have the requisite experience and espoused views," that he said, "should not give her such an important post."

He said, "The nation should not have to worry that the intelligence assessments the president receives are tainted by a Director of National Intelligence with a history of alarming lapses in judgment.

"Entrusting the coordination of the Intelligence Community to someone who struggles to acknowledge these facts, is an unnecessary risk."

Now, even though that did not carry much water with other Senate Republicans, 52 of them voted to confirm her for the post. Democrats, who have been battling McConnell for years on a whole host of other issues, came to his defense and praised the former Republican leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I think Senator McConnell is starting a new career and an admirable one, voting his conscience and standing strong for the civil rights and liberties of this country.

RAJU: You spoke to Elon Musk. I'm wondering how that conversation had went because he came after him pretty hard and then kind of backed off of it.

SEN. TODD YOUNG (R-IN): No, it was actually great. We didn't talk about Gabbard once. We talked about DOGE. We talked about kids. And he offered himself, believe it or not, to be my personal tech advisor.

It's no secret that he's supportive of, I think, friends with Ms. Gabbard, if that's what you're asking about. And that was a separate issue in my mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So that last comment coming from Senator Todd Young. He's a Republican from Indiana who sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee who had some reservations about Gabbard initially.

And he came under fire, actually, from Elon Musk, who called him a, quote, "Deep State puppet," but later deleted that post on X. They did have a conversation there.

Young also securing some commitments from Gabbard herself on a number of issues, which is why he ultimately voted yes.

But also Republicans today falling in line behind the idea, behind pushing ahead with RFK Jr to lead the Health and Human Services Department. That vote was advanced to a final confirmation vote along straight party lines.

We'll look for Mitch McConnell. What he does on that vote tomorrow. But they know the Democrats, and even if McConnell votes no, they don't have the votes to stop him.

So expect him to be confirmed to that very important position by tomorrow -- guys?

SANCHEZ: Really a fascinating chapter to Mitch McConnell's newest term in the Senate.

Manu Raju, live on Capitol Hill, thank you so much.

[13:39:45]

Still ahead, an agency that's returned billions and dollars to consumers is in jeopardy in the name of government efficiency. We'll discuss the possible consequences when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The DOGE purge ramping up inside the capitol. CNN has learned dozens of probationary employees at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau received termination notices last night.

We should say it's actually ramping up over at the White House, because that's where it's happening.

We also learned that two career CFPB officials have resigned.

The watchdog agency is the latest government entity targeted by the Trump administration's edict to gut the federal workforce. Remaining employees have been told to stand down from all work, including fighting financial abuse.

And all of this is alarming consumer advocates and ethics experts because they say there is a glaring conflict of interest between Elon Musk presiding over CFPB's shutdown while owning businesses that would benefit from weakened financial regulation.

Julie Margetta Morgan is the former associate director of research, monitoring and regulation at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

[13:44:59]

And, Julie, first, what is most alarming to you? Because I think this is where a lot of people will start realizing what the CFPB does. What are the things that it will not be doing that most concern you?

JULIE MARGETTA MORGAN, FORMER ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH, MONITORING & REGULATION, CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION BUREAU: Thanks. Thanks for having me here today.

I think the thing that people really need to know is that there's a stop-work order going on at the CFPB right now for virtually all of the work that the agency does.

That means that the cops, who are usually on the beat inside of large financial institutions, making sure that they're following the law, are no longer able to do their work. This is going to be incredibly consequential for American families.

You know, over its history, the CFPB has returned $21 billion to consumers. And they do that by keeping a close eye on what these big businesses are doing, catching scammers, catching fraudsters, and making sure that people get redress. All of that has stopped right now.

KEILAR: And on the conflict of interest point involving Elon Musk, just highlight for us the biggest ones as you see them.

MORGAN: Yes, this is a really big point here. So Elon Musk has said that DOGE is about waste and government efficiency. But he has a specific financial interest here.

Elon Musk, from the start, has said that he wants to turn X into a major payment system, to a massive player in our financial system. The thing that stands in his way is having a strong regulator through the CFPB.

So he's not looking at CFPB as a place for waste, fraud and abuse. There isn't waste, fraud or abuse at CFPB. What he's looking at is weakening a regulator who stands in his way and in the way of his financial interests.

KEILAR: And explain how CFPB would regulate something like that. Obviously, the CFPB, in the past, has taken a very close look, for instance, at Google Pay, which I think people are very familiar with, as sort of this kind of crossing platforms payment system.

How would the CFPB be looking at something like that?

MORGAN: I think what people need to understand is that we've seen this massive shift over the last few years where kind of the regular players in big tech, like Google, Facebook, X, Apple, have made these big moves into financial services.

So they're becoming banks. They're offering payment platforms. They're offering credit cards. But they don't want to adhere to the same rules as other banks. They want to be a bank but not be held accountable as a bank.

And that's what CFPB would do. So CFPB, just at the end of last year, had put in place a rule that would allow it to be on the ground the same way it is at other banks in these companies that offer digital payment platforms.

So that's what this is really about for these big tech companies.

KEILAR: So if I'm -- if I'm just someone sitting at home and I'm probably -- I'm hearing all of these acronyms as these agencies and DOGE is being thrown around, what I really want to know is, OK, well, how is this -- how am I going to see this?

How am I going to see this in my bank account? How am I going to see this in lending practices? How is this on like a very real monetary level going to be impacting just an average American out there?

MORGAN: Yes, I'm glad you asked that question. Because the CFPB does impact people's lives every day.

Number one, the CFPB is a place where people can actually call and file a complaint and be certain that they're going to get an answer to their complaints about financial issues.

So if you have a problem with a scammer on a payday loan, or if you have information on your credit report, that's inaccurate, CFPB was the place you could call. It's not there -- it's not going to be there for people if DOGE continues with these efforts.

And in the last year, the CFPB also took action on some things that were really going to save people money. We were lowering credit card late fees to just $15. We were lowering overdraft fees. We were taking medical debt off of peoples credit reports. Those efforts are in danger here, too.

And then I just think, at a basic level, you know, the CFPB was born out of a financial crisis. Congress put CFPB in place to make sure that we had a cop on the beat, looking at everyday issues that consumers were having and looking out for the next financial crisis.

So it really puts our economy in peril as well.

KEILAR: Julie Morgan, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate you.

MORGAN: Thank you.

[13:49:22]

KEILAR: And when we come back, the White House answering some questions about President Trump's possible trip to Moscow, that he said he and Putin have agreed -- they've agreed to come to each other's nations he said after they spoke today. We'll bring that to you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Just moments ago, CNN anchor and chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, asked Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt about the call between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Kaitlan also asked about Associated Press reporters being barred from White House events yesterday over the news organization's continued use of Gulf of Mexico instead of Gulf of America.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Karoline.

I have a few things for you, but on the commitment by President Trump, he said that he and President Putin agreed to visit each other's respective nations.

Are there any preconditions that President Trump has that President Putin must do before he goes and meets with him, withdrawing some forces, withdrawing all forces or anything like that?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Not that I'm aware of. That doesn't mean they don't exist. But I was just talking with the president and our national security team. I wasn't made aware of any conditions. But if they exist, I'm happy to provide those.

[13:55:05]

COLLINS: And on the president, himself, you know, he styles himself as this master negotiator. He is now deploying these negotiations, saying that they start immediately.

We did hear from the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, today saying that NATO membership is not realistic for Ukraine and neither is return to pre-2014 borders.

Aren't they giving away bargaining chips before these negotiations have even started?

LEAVITT: Again, I haven't talked to the president about Ukraine's NATO membership. And he appointed several individuals to negotiate on his behalf. He's directly involved in these negotiations as well.

And I'm sure if you ask him that question in the near future, when you're able to, he'll give you an answer. I just don't want to get ahead of him on it.

COLLINS: And final thing for you. Which White House official made the decision to bar the A.P. reporter from the Oval Office and the diplomatic reception room last night?

LEAVITT: Well, first of all, let me just set the record straight. It is a privilege to cover this White House. It's a privilege to be the White House press secretary.

And nobody has the right to go into the Oval Office and ask the president of the United States questions. That's an invitation that is given.

And there are hundreds of outlets on this campus -- many of you in this room who don't have the privilege of being part of that pool every single day and getting to ask the president questions.

We reserve the right to decide who gets to go into the Oval Office. And you all have credentials to be here, including the Associated Press, who is in this briefing room today.

COLLINS: But isn't it retaliatory in nature, is the argument, because the reason that the A.P. was barred, which they said was because they're not using the phrase Gulf of America. They're using Gulf of Mexico in line with their standards.

And so the question here is, is this setting a precedent that this White House will retaliate against reporters who don't use the language that you guys believe reporters should use?

And how does that align with the First Amendment commitment that you were just talking about?

LEAVITT: I was very upfront in my briefing on day one that if we feel that there are lies being pushed by outlets in this room, we are going to hold those lies accountable.

And it is a fact that the body of water off the coast of Louisiana is called the Gulf of America. And I'm not sure why news outlets don't want to call it that, but that is what it is.

The secretary of Interior has made that the official designation in the geographical identification name server. And Apple has recognized that. Google has recognized that. Pretty much every other outlet in this room has recognized that body of water as the Gulf of America.

And it's very important to this administration that we get that right, not just for people here at home, but also for the rest of the world.

Sure?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Kaitlan Collins will join us from the White House, next.

Plus, we'll take you live to Moscow with the latest reaction to this call between President Trump and President Putin.

Stay with NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)