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Trump: Putin & I Agreed Ukraine Talks Should Start Immediately; WH: Not Aware of Any Preconditions for Trump & Putin Visits; State Dept: U.S. Citizen Released from Prison in Belarus. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 12, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: ... power to wage his war on so-called waste, as a key DOGE Committee meets on Capitol Hill for the first time. We're going to speak to a member of that committee.

And there's no place like home: NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams could be home sooner than expected after being stuck on the International Space Station since June, even though NASA says they were never actually stuck.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: They were kind of stuck.

SANCHEZ: Okay, they were stuck.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: We begin this hour with breaking news that no doubt is pretty tough for Ukrainians to hear. President Trump revealing details of a 90-minute phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin saying that it was, quote, "highly productive" as they discussed a number of topics, including steps to end the conflict in Ukraine.

SANCHEZ: All this as the White House announces the release of another American detainee, this time from a prison in Belarus. We've got a team of reporters covering every angle. Let's go straight to CNN's Jeff Zeleny with more on this lengthy call between the two leaders. What is the White House saying, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, we are learning more about that telephone call this morning between the American president and the Russian president. Certainly, this is significant on so many fronts, but largely because the President is saying that he believes the discussions to end the war in Ukraine should begin immediately. Of course, this is coming a day after another American prisoner, Marc Fogel, that Pennsylvania school teacher, was released from Moscow.

The White House is saying these aren't exactly relinked, but certainly the timing leads to this conversation with Vladimir Putin this morning. And the two leaders in the first administration met some five times in person or so, very controversial meetings, but this is a different moment altogether because of the Ukraine war, of course.

And the fact that the President spoke with Volodymyr Zelenskyy a second after Vladimir Putin certainly is interesting. But both leaders vowed to visit one another's countries. Our Kaitlan Collins asked if any preconditions would exist before Putin would be invited.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I have a few things for you, but on the commitment by President Trump, he said that he and President Putin agreed to visit each other's respective nations. Are there any preconditions that President Trump has that President Putin must do before he goes and meets with him, withdrawing some forces, withdrawing all forces, anything like that?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Not that I'm aware of. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I was just talking with the President in our National Security team. I wasn't made aware of any conditions, but if they exist, I'm happy to provide those.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So certainly this is the opening of a new chapter in diplomatic relations, which largely had been frozen during the Biden administration because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Now, there is no question that this is causing much consternation among many U.S. allies, Western allies, who of course are meeting in Brussels. And the Vice President also is scheduled to meet with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. But no doubt the opening of a conversation with Russia is raising the question, is Ukraine going to be on the losing end of this, Boris and Brianna.

SANCHEZ: Jeff Zeleny live at the White House. Thank you so much. Let's turn to CNN Chief National Security Correspondent, Alex Marquardt.

Alex, what more do we know about this American released from this prison in Belarus?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris and Brianna, two days of remarkable unexpected prisoner releases by Russia and by Belarus today. Just a couple hours ago, we learned that three prisoners were released by the Belarusian regime, including one American citizen who is unnamed for privacy reasons, but he was detained in Belarus, we understand, back in September.

He was released alongside two non-Americans. One is Andrey Kuznechyk, who worked for the American-backed Radio Free Europe. And the second is Alena Maushuk.

Maushuk, we understand, has serious health conditions, while Kuznechyk has been reunited with his wife and two children. And just a short time ago, we heard from the ambassador to - the American ambassador to Lithuania and senior State Department official, Chris Smith, because they had worked on getting these three out of Belarus. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS SMITH, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE STATE FOR EASTERN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS: This was a unilateral gesture by the Lukashenko authorities. They made this gesture because they are responding through what Adam pointed out, which is the President's peace through strength agenda. They're responding to strength. They're looking to improve ties. This was a gesture on their side.

KARA MCDONALD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO LITHUANIA: It's important to note here that this is four releases we've had in less than a month of the administration. It's quite extraordinary. It's really a very rare thing. We work sometimes for years to get people out. I've personally worked on one of these cases for a number of years.

[15:05:02]

And so to see this person come out of Belarusian prison is quite extraordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And Boris and Brianna, this does come the day after Marc Fogel was released from Russia in a remarkable exchange. Steve Witkoff was ostensibly the Middle East envoy traveling to Moscow on his private plane, coming back with Marc Fogel. He was exchanged for a Russian and American custody named Alexander Vinnik, who was accused of running a multi-billion-dollar cryptocurrency exchange.

Big questions now, as Jeff was noting, how this plays into the broader question of Ukrainian-Russian negotiations to end the war that are being spearheaded by the United States. You heard that State Department official saying that the release today in Belarus was done unilaterally because they wanted better relations with the United States. After the release yesterday of Marc Fogel, we heard the White House call that a show of good faith by the Russians ahead of these negotiations with Ukrainians. What do the Russians get out of it? Certainly they do appear to be currying favor with the Trump administration, getting brownie points, if you will, with President Trump ahead of what are expected to be very contentious negotiations that as things stand today are not trending in favor of the Ukrainians, guys.

KEILAR: All right. Alex, thank you for that.

Let's bring in CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Kim Dozier and CNN Chief International Security Correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, for more on the global perspective here.

You know, Kim, it's interesting because the Biden administration had this multi-nation prisoner swap.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes.

KEILAR: And you have this multiple prisoner releases coming from Russia here. But what's so clear is that Russia does what it wants to do when it wants to do it for reasons that it sees in its interests. So, I wonder how you are seeing this.

DOZIER: This is Vladimir Putin delivering to President Donald Trump a number of wins in his first month in office. Now, Marc Fogel, it's wonderful that he's out. It's wonderful for him, for his family, but let's remember that the hostage negotiator under the Biden administration, Roger Carstens, was the same hostage negotiator under the first Trump administration. He was a carryover and that he'd worked to get Fogel out. But according to one State Department official I spoke to, the Russians didn't seem interested in exchanging him. This is carefully timed to get Trump on Putin's side ahead of these Ukrainian negotiations.

SANCHEZ: So Nick, if this is a precursor to negotiations between the United States and Russia over the fate of Ukraine, what does this mean for Kyiv, especially as we're seeing Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, visiting with NATO leaders, saying that returning to that 2014 border with Russia is unrealistic?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, I mean, it must have been, I think, quite an uneasy day for Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He had thought perhaps on Friday when Donald Trump said that they might meet this week that he could in fact be discussing in person with Trump what the peace deal might look like. Instead, he got the U.S. Treasury Secretary turning up in Kyiv with essentially a financial type of deal defining their relationship with the United States going forwards.

We don't know its full content. It probably involved rare earth minerals to some degree. But certainly during that failure to sign the deal as perhaps had been expected by the Trump administration, news emerged that in fact Trump had been on another phone call, talking to someone entirely different.

Remember, this Ukrainian leader has been at the center of pretty much every room for the last three years when it comes to his Western allies. And suddenly he's seeing all of this diplomacy occurring without him often being in the room. He said today in an interview with The Economist that he didn't know what conversations Trump was having. He only heard about them in the press. That's such a stark difference.

And we've seen this extraordinary moment of rehabilitation for Russia through the return of Marc Fogel, wrapped in the stars and stripes with Donald Trump. Essentially a move by the Kremlin, quite cynically here, to pave the way, to improve their image, to pave the way for Trump to perhaps make a deal that's more in their favor. We've known for some time that those around Trump and Trump himself haven't really felt that the U.S. is getting much out of its support for Ukraine. Ukraine needs that support more than ever right now.

And remarkably too, we heard from Hegseth in Brussels, the Secretary of Defense there, what we kind of knew, Ukraine's never going to get back to its 2014 borders. They tried in 2023 with a counter offensive. That failed. And they're not going to become part of NATO. We knew that was the case too. But it's said there very openly, very loud, and also something too that Ukraine urgently wanted, which is American peacekeepers as part of any peacekeeping force.

We're far off that idea right now. But the notion of the U.S. kind of saying to its European allies, fixing this, policing this, sorting this out, it's on you. We're no longer the guarantor of European security. That's a huge sea change. And it's one that essentially says to Ukraine, you better go along with whatever he presents or you might be on your own.

[15:10:04]

And we don't know the full extent of what Trump and Putin talked about for 90 full minutes, probably their second call in about a week. Trump alluded to another one at the weekend. He rang Zelenskyy second to update him on that. And I think that is all you need to know about where Kyiv stand in the pecking order here. This peace deal is likely to be between Russia and the United States, telling Ukraine what they think is its best path going forwards. That is a market change and will leave many Ukrainians deeply concerned and many troops on the front lines fighting for Ukraine, perhaps wondering exactly what their efforts and loss is for right now.

SANCHEZ: Sure. Kim, I wonder to Nick's point, if Trump's view of foreign policy is purely one based on transactions and what ultimately it will benefit the United States, benefit him, what does Ukraine have to offer? Is it these rare earth minerals? Is that leverage to get Trump to try to push for more out of the Kremlin?

DOZIER: Yes. I did speak to a Ukrainian contact who was briefed on what went on in Ramstein and said that they're very upset with what Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth said about this resolution is probably not going to include Ukraine as part of NATO, that you're not going to see a return to Ukraine's 2014 borders, all bad news.

The one bright silver lining here is that Trump has sent his treasury secretary to Kyiv to discuss access to rare earth minerals. So, the Ukrainians are hoping that maybe that is something that they hold in the balance. I also understand that Hegseth behind closed doors got pretty savaged by other attendees saying, what, so you guys are pulling out? And reassured them that no, no, the U.S. isn't abandoning this, it's just that you all have to step up.

So, they kind of took his comments publicly as a signal to - it's what the White House wants to hear. And though that is also disturbing that the White House wants to hear what comments that would be welcomed in Russia, that signal that Russia will be able to keep at least some of the territory that it has taken by force since 2014.

KEILAR: Yes. And those sort of things, Nick, being undercut, the idea of, you're not going to be in NATO, right? You're going to have to give up your claim to territory. Coming out of the gate before negotiations even begin and making it clear that Ukraine can't stand well or solidly on firm ground to argue that they deserve those things, where does that leave them in these negotiations?

WALSH: Yes, it leaves Trump and essentially NATO with no room to bluff here. They've laid their cards flat on the table in the first move. And I think this means a negotiator like Putin, who's been waiting for this moment of Western disunity for the whole three years of this war, he's been allowing thousands of his own people to die or be wounded at times every day or week, just to buy time until this change in heart where we see NATO having to deal with the fact that Europe isn't putting as much in as the United States, it's not in this necessarily indefinitely, even though it says it wants to be, waiting for this moment of fracture and the inevitable truth that, yes, Ukraine isn't going to be part of NATO. It never was. It isn't unlikely to be for a decade. That's been unknown.

But the fact this has been so boldly stated, comforting as that is to the sort of the grassroots Trump agenda that got him into power, it leaves these negotiations in a very dangerous place because we don't know what Trump and Putin are talking about the entire time. We don't know how much sympathy Trump has for Putin's position in some of these areas too, but we do know that his alliance with Zelenskyy is certainly not paramount. He's not being the one receiving the calls or having the meetings and that is extremely telling for where we are going forward.

This peace process is underway, but remember, Russia is winning on the ground. So, the clock is not ticking loudly in its ears, certainly is in Zelenskyy's, he's running out of people and weaponry.

SANCHEZ: Nick Paton Walsh, Kim Dozier, appreciate you both. Thanks for joining us.

Still to come, federal judges across the nation blocking or slowing President Trump's executive actions as he tasks Elon Musk with reshaping the federal government. We're now hearing from Attorney General Pam Bondi about how she plans to defend the President's agenda.

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[15:19:04]

SANCHEZ: Today, President Trump and allies are ramping up attacks on federal judges who have either blocked or slowed down the President's agenda. Earlier, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt accused those judges of political bias.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAVITT: ... where district court judges and liberal districts across the country are abusing their power to unilaterally block President Trump's basic executive authority. We believe these judges are acting as judicial activists rather than honest arbiters of the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Not long ago, Elon Musk posted a poll on X asking whether quote, federal judges who repeatedly abuse their authority to obstruct the will of the people via their elected representatives should be impeached. We should note, no one elected Elon Musk and he called one of those judges, quote, "evil" in a post shortly before that.

KEILAR: Now, we should also note some of the judges in these cases including the one singled out by Musk were appointed by President Trump himself, President George W. Bush, President Ronald Reagan as well.

[15:20:09]

CNN's Paula Reid is with us now. And so Paula, you've got the AG here, Pam Bondi, who's responsible for overseeing the defense of these policies weighing in today on the role of courts. What did she say?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it was important to hear from her as the President and the White House continue to attack judges as being activists. Elon Musk even called for one judge to be fired, something that is extremely difficult to do when it comes to the federal judiciary which is probably what prompted that poll. But it was important to hear from the nation's top law enforcement official. So, let's take a listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: DOJ, we are prepared to defend all of these cases and we will carry out President Trump's agenda in this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got it, in time and you may be ...

BONDI: These judges are lifetime appointments but what we can do is appeal them. And that's what's actually happening today in a case. We're appealing a case right now. It went up to the first circuit and the first circuit sent it back to the district court to clarify. And if they don't rule in our favor, we will go to the United States Supreme Court and get clarification and get a ruling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So, that was very similar to what we heard from President Trump yesterday because there were concerns about whether the administration would abide by these orders, especially when they continue to lose. And there've been at least two orders that they have not actually followed. Trump said that he would abide by these judges' rulings, but he will continue to exercise his appeal options.

But simultaneously, he continues to attack these judges and undermine trust in the judiciary. But these challenges, they continue. Today in Washington, we were supposed to have several hearings on Trump policies. Most of them were delayed because of the snow but there was one that wrapped just a few minutes ago and this was on freezing USAID funding.

Now, Trump lawyers in this hearing, they insisted that this is within Trump's right to direct foreign policy as he so chooses. But the judge also heard from the challengers who said, no, we have a lot of clients who already completed work in the Biden administration and haven't gotten paid. You can't just freeze these contracts, especially if they've already been executed, so there could be another loss for the Trump administration there. We're waiting for the judge to rule and we don't expect that decision until tomorrow. And then, we're going to have even more hearings of the next two days because so many were delayed. SANCHEZ: And perhaps more appeals after that, but ...

REID: All the way to the Supreme Court, and I'll be there.

SANCHEZ: Paula Reid, thank you so much.

Joining us now to discuss is Republican Congressman Eric Burlison of Missouri. He sits on the DOGE Oversight Committee, which met today.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

Some of your colleagues on the committee called for Musk to testify before Congress. The billionaire said himself in the Oval Office yesterday that transparency is what builds trust. Would you like to see him come before lawmakers to outline what he's doing with DOGE?

REP. ERIC BURLISON (R-MO): I think that Elon is doing a great job. I think that, I don't know that I would want to pull him away from the work that he's doing. As I understand it, him and his team are working all-nighters and bringing in sleep pods. But, you know, if he chooses that he can take time away, I'd be happy to meet with him. I'm sure everybody would.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, he did acknowledge that there could be missteps along the way with his work with DOGE. So, I wonder what kind of oversight the DOGE caucus has on Musk and his associates, whether you have any understanding of why, for example, they need access to some of these sensitive payment programs that keep the financial information of millions of Americans.

BURLISON: Yes, and that's one of the things that I've requested is the oversight committee create a connection with the DOGE team so that we can fully understand everything that they're doing. These forensic audits are fascinating and they're - you know, this is what the private sector does, but we've never seen this happen on the, you know, federal sector and it's long overdue, which is why we're uncovering so much waste.

But at the end of the day, I think we - it'd be helpful to understand how their, you know, how their process works and be able to do some level of coordination. Because at the end of the day, a lot of this is not going to come to fruition unless Congress takes action. You're seeing the President being, you know, taken to court. They're trying to express basically that he doesn't have the right to do these impoundments. And I don't know how that's going to shake out in the courts, but at the end of the day, we don't have time. The American people don't want to wait for years for something to be drug out through the court system. They want to see, you know, all of these wasteful spending programs eliminated today.

SANCHEZ: That is such an important point, Congressman, because the executive, the White House has multiple options. They don't just have to, in their eyes, appeal some of these decisions. President Trump could go to Congress and cut some of the funding that he wants to see cut by striking a deal with Democrats.

[15:24:59]

But instead, DOGE, this sort of supra-governmental authority, which wasn't created by Congress, which supposedly serves in an advisory role, is trying to cut funding that Congress has already allocated. I wonder if you're comfortable with them doing that and appearing to supersede your own authority.

BURLISON: Yes, and I'll tell you why. I come from the state of Missouri. In fact, I think most states operate in that vein. I mean, you make the appropriation and the governor has the discretion and the ability to live within that appropriation however much they decide to do so. And so that is something that the American people are used to seeing. And as someone who's a fiscal hawk, if you're going to err on the side of anything, let's err on the side of less spending. Because look, we can't afford it. Thirty - almost 37 trillion in debt. We are at a - you know, approaching a debt spiral. The epic think tank just recently came out with a report saying, obviously, Social Security goes bankrupt in eight years, Medicare goes bankrupt in 10 years. We are going to enter a debt spiral at the current spending levels in 15 years, meaning that the dollar will basically - you think inflation is bad now, just wait until then. The dollar will be worthless.

SANCHEZ: It is obviously an important cause to eliminate waste, one that has bipartisan support. I do want to go back to something that we sort of touched on at the top. You argue that Musk is busy and working all-nighters. There are a lot of concerns about potential conflicts of interest because he's not only the richest man in the world, he has business with the U.S. government, contracts with the Pentagon, and also business overseas with the Chinese government, and yet he's not going to file something as simple as a financial disclosure that so many other folks that are so closely engaged with the work of government do. I wonder if you think he has an obligation to the American people to go before Congress to perhaps put a pause on that intense work that he's doing at the White House that you pointed out to answer basic questions about any potential conflicts of interest. Do you think he has that obligation?

BURLISON: I don't know that it would be helpful. Look, you saw the rhetoric in the DOGE Committee from the other side of the aisle. They used it for moments of grandstanding. It basically became a food fight. So, I don't know that it would be helpful to do that, but I do think that coordinating with Congress is a great idea, and it's something that we should be, you know, working with him and his team to understand the inner workings of DOGE.

SANCHEZ: Should he file that financial disclosure?

BURLISON: I don't think that he needs to. Everybody knows where he gets his money. He's not - a guy who's as rich as him is not benefiting by this position. He's sacrificing his time. He could be much more productive and make more money that would benefit him. You know, at the end of the day, if he were to come in and start saying, we're going to - I'm going to force the government to purchase Teslas, then I think we could probably, you know ...

SANCHEZ: Sure, but to ... BURLISON: ... the American people would obviously question something like that, but that's not happening (INAUDIBLE) ...

SANCHEZ: ... to your point about Tesla ...

BURLISON: ... (INAUDIBLE) ...

SANCHEZ: ... to your point about Tesla, he's gutting the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which oversees the loans that Tesla offers consumers. So in a sense ...

BURLISON: And I'll tell you, if you talk to the ...

SANCHEZ: ... he is gutting an agency that helps consumers conduct against abusive business practices and regulates business that he does, is that not a conflict of interest?

BURLISON: Yeah. You know, if he's doing something that benefits all businesses - in fact, I'll tell you, my brother, who's a banker, is cheering that on. You talk to anybody in the banking community, they're absolutely celebrating because they hate that program.

So, look, it's - you know, it's good - what's good for the goose is good for the gander. He is doing things that raise - that benefit the American people, and he happens to be an American citizen. So, look, at the end of the day, he's trying to save this country because he loves it. We're all citizens of this country. I think we ought to welcome it.

And I'll tell you, who better to lend time and effort to this for free? I'll tell you, if you ask any governor of any state or any business, if - and you said, Elon Musk would like to come in with his team of people and help find waste, fraud and abuse within your organization or your state, there's not a single governor or executive that would turn that away, and that's why we should embrace it here in the United States.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Eric Burlison, you have a lot of faith in Elon Musk. We appreciate you sharing your time with us this afternoon. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

BURLISON: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Stay with NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just a few minutes.

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