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Judge Hears Case On Pausing ICE Raids Inside Schools, Churches; Source: Acting U.S. Attorney In NY Resigns After Being Told To Drop Corruption Case Against NYC Mayor Adams; Senate Confirms RFK Jr As HHS Secretary Without McConnell Support; Trump Considering Reciprocal Tariffs Even As Inflation Spikes; Trump Speaks On Reciprocal Tariffs, Ukraine-Russia Peace Negotiations, Musk Meeting Privately With Indian PM Modi. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired February 13, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:31:35]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A federal court hearing wrapping up just moments ago over whether to pause a Trump immigration policy. ICE wants to end what is known as sensitive places restrictions, which bar immigration enforcement actions inside churches, schools and other areas.

Let's go to CNN correspondent, Priscilla Alvarez, who is here in studio with us.

What happened at this hearing in Maryland?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're getting a readout from our colleague who was in the two-and-a-half-hour meeting or hearing.

Essentially, what this boils down to is, is it true that the ICE officials will use their discretion and common sense, as this guidance had laid out, when making decisions about whether they do enforcement actions in or near these sensitive areas?

Remember, when this was rolled out, it was peeling back what had been years long policy to avoid any type of enforcement in these areas because of the chilling effect that it has. But the guidelines also said that the officials would use their, quote, "common sense."

Now, what happened over the course of the hearing was that the lawyers were for -- for the congregations who have already said that they are seeing the chilling effect and the people who are coming to their churches.

That even if the government is saying in their paperwork that they are going to use common sense and discretion, there are also senior Trump officials who are publicly stating that they're going to go after, quote, "dirtbags," or that they're going to forcefully find undocumented immigrants in the United States.

So that sort of counters this, is the argument from the attorneys, what is being said on paper.

And again, this was a lawsuit that was brought by churches because they are part of this sensitive areas. So they are saying that they are seeing the effects in their own congregations, and that this should not be allowed to proceed. The judge not saying how he'll rule one way or another.

KEILAR: You're also following a meeting today between immigration czar, Tom Homan, and New York City Mayor Eric Adams. The Trump administration actually just pulled $80 million in funding to New York City, which was supposed to go to migrant housing.

What happened at the meeting?

ALVAREZ: Well, we're still waiting for a readout of the meeting. This is really the first major feud with the city. Yes, the Trump administration has already sued Illinois, gone after Chicago for their, quote, "sanctuary city policies."

But this feud has escalated just in the last 24 hours in New York. So the funds that you're referring to, that's part of an existing program. It's administered by FEMA.

In fact, four FEMA officials were fired this week because they distributed these funds. And it -- to New York City, in this case, to help them with the sheltering of migrants.

Ultimately, it's New York who decides where they're going to lodge them and essentially seeks reimbursement.

Well, this has become a flashpoint this week. And this meeting was happening on the heels of that, because now New York is not going to see the money, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

In addition to that, yesterday there was charges filed, or rather, a lawsuit filed against New York over its policies that limit cooperation with federal immigration enforcement authorities. So all of this is coming to a head.

We're still waiting to see what came out of this meeting. New York City Mayor Eric Adams has shown more willingness to help on the enforcement front. So certainly, we'll see what comes out of this, if anything, when it comes to commitments.

KEILAR: All right. We'll be looking.

Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much for that.

[14:35:53]

And minutes from now, RFK Jr is set to be sworn in as the new head of Health and Human Services. All of this, despite intense scrutiny over his vaccine views. We're talking with someone who once held Kennedy's job, next.

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KEILAR: We have breaking news out of New York. A source telling CNN that Acting U.S. Attorney Danielle Sassoon has quit after being told to drop the case against Mayor Eric Adams.

Let's go right to CNN's Kara Scannell.

Kara, what do we know?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, so the acting U.S. attorney for the South District of New York, Danielle Sassoon, submitted her resignation in a letter to the attorney general.

[14:40:03]

This, as she has been under pressure to drop the corruption case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

This letter was sent this afternoon to the attorney general's office. And it had been a looming question since it was only earlier this week that the acting deputy attorney general had instructed Sassoon to drop the case against Eric Adams.

And in that highly unusual directive, the main Justice prosecutors had said that they were not -- they were not making this directive based on the evidence in the case or the strength of the case.

But because they wanted the mayor to be free and unencumbered to help make some of the policies that President Donald Trump has been pushing, including on immigration.

So that put the prosecutor here in this office, SDNY -- it's known for its independence. It has a long history of independence. And at times, clashes with main Justice in order to maintain that independence.

The big question here was, what would Sassoon do? Would she follow it through with these orders, or would she resign? Now we know that she has decided to resign this position.

Now. In her letter to the A.G., she doesn't mention the Adams case, according to sources. But that is clearly the amount of pressure that has been on her in this office.

All week, I've been talking to former prosecutors, including some senior prosecutors, who said that if she went through with this, it would have been a big black eye on the office and could have resulted in more prosecutors leaving -- Brianna?

KEILAR: How unusual, Kara, is that a directive to dismiss the charges with DOJ citing, as you said, not the merits when it comes to the case, but the need for Adams to cooperate with Trump's immigration crackdown.

SCANNELL: Brianna, this is so unusual to even get that sort of directive from main Justice in what had been a fairly public courting campaign between New York City mayor and President Donald Trump.

So that directive was highly surprising. Lawyers had not seen anything like that before. And it really put the prosecutors who had brought this case under a lot of pressure.

Where this goes from here, though, remains unclear, whether or not main Justice themselves could try to move to dismiss the charges.

Or if this case will go forward until they can get Trump's nominee, his pick for the U.S. attorney for the South District of New York, Jay Clayton, through the Senate confirmation process and in place, if he is on board, to dismiss those charges.

As it stands right now, Adams, who has pleaded not guilty, is set to go to trial in April.

KEILAR: All right. Kara Scannell, thank you.

Boris?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: President Trump just locked in another one of his cabinet picks. The Senate confirming Robert F. Kennedy Jr as the next secretary of Health and Human Services.

RFK, whose nomination was clouded in controversy over his vaccine stance and concerns about putting him in charge of the nation's public health. He was confirmed mostly along party lines.

Except for one very notable defection from former majority leader, Mitch McConnell. The Kentucky Senator, who is a polio survivor, said Kennedy, quote, "has a record of trafficking in dangerous conspiracy theories and eroding trust in public health institutions and that he will not condone the re-litigation of proven cures."

McConnell has now voted against three of Trump's cabinet nominees, more than any other Republican Senator.

Let's discuss RFK Jr and more with former Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius.

Secretary, thank you so much for being with us.

I just, right off the bat, I want to get your reaction to RFK Jr getting confirmed as the secretary of the agency that you once led.

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, FORMER HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Well, I think it's, Boris, unfortunate that more of the Senators didn't look carefully into RFK Jr's record and find some real alarm at his stated policy that there is no safe and effective vaccine.

Mitch McConnell clearly took that seriously as a polio survivor. And I just hope that whoever he promised along the way that he would change his views on vaccines and not undermine the public confidence in proven science that he will live up to those promises.

All of us hope that he does a great job. We need America to be as healthy as possible. And he is committed to making America healthy again. That's great news. And I think he would have broad bipartisan support in that endeavor.

But the number of conspiracy theories, you know, questioning the origin of HIV/AIDS, looking at vaccines in spite of their proven effectiveness, you know, speculating about Covid being a targeted virus over and over again.

We're in a very global world. We have diseases traveling over borders. So we need a secretary for the American health system who shares information, is very transparent about what's going on. Makes sure that he collaborates and cooperates.

[14:45:06]

SANCHEZ: To that point, I wonder what you make of Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski today telling Manu Raju that she plans to make sure that Kennedy is held accountable for things like vaccine misinformation.

I wonder, in your dealings when you were secretary with Senators, if -- if there was an open line of communication, if any of them tried to persuade you into certain things?

I -- candidly, I wonder what kind of authority a Senator would have over what a secretary says or does.

SEBELIUS: Well, as I say, Boris, it's unfortunate that he's now been given the green light and a big podium. So I am not quite sure how Senator Murkowski plans to hold him accountable.

He is known for making frequent and erroneous public comments about science, about disease, about his views. So he now has been given the opportunity to serve in this amazing office.

And HHS is a huge asset for the United States. It's the public health agency, the gold standard for research. Controls the three largest health insurance programs in the country, where about half of Americans get their health insurance.

Children and family programs, mental health substance abuse. So -- drug safety and effectiveness. So he has an enormous role.

And while I find it heartening that Senator Murkowski says she wants to hold him accountable, she is now giving him the green light to speak with the authority of the secretary, the health minister of states, at a very critical time.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Kathleen Sebelius, thank you so much for sharing your perspective. We appreciate it.

SEBELIUIS: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: In just moments, we're going to take you to the White House, where President Trump just announced an executive order to have all federal agencies study reciprocal tariffs on other nations. We're going to dig into exactly what that means in just a few minutes.

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[14:51:46]

KEILAR: All right. We are about to be listening to President Trump. He has declared today the big one as he's announcing sweeping reciprocal tariffs.

And we're here now with Mark Preston and Aaron Klein to talk about that as we await this tape coming in.

We should note, Aaron, that the tariffs would not kick in immediately. And that's a big, big point. That's important.

AARON KLEIN, FORMER TREASURY DEPARTMENT DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY: Yes, I mean he's playing -- this is a negotiating. This is a starting point. He's sitting there. He's throwing this out there.

He's having his advisers do special calculations for each country. And this is -- this is "The Art of the Deal." This is the start of a negotiation on his part.

SANCHEZ: Mark, this is the big one. And then he actually stops short of imposing these tariffs. Is this about his meeting with Prime Minister Modi coming up in a few hours?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: We are so good at looking at that shiny object over here, aren't we?

(LAUGHTER)

PRESTON: And he just makes us drive over to it. Meanwhile, he's doing something over here.

Yes, he's very good at redirecting right now. and specifically with these tariffs, right?

What he's talking about, it's going to have a -- let's assume he were to follow through with it, it's going to have a big play in India, of course, in how the United States and India react with trade.

KEILAR: How do you -- how do -- sorry, you were going to respond.

KLEIN: I was going to say, India is trying to export a lot, right? And they import U.S. goods and services. And this is a big deal. This is a big deal to Modi, who's come all this way not to walk into a meeting to get tariffs slapped on him.

SANCHEZ: I wonder -- let's actually go ahead and listen in to President Trump right now in the Oval Office.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Military protection because they essentially - because -- and you take a look at what's going on out there. You have Russian ships. You have China ships. You have Chinese ships.

You have a lot of ships out there. And, you know, people are in danger. This is a different world today. It's a different world. They need our protection.

Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You mentioned Elon Musk and the efforts that he's undertaken with your authority. You granted him new authority this week. Will he secure any new government contracts while he's working on DOGE?

TRUMP: No, not -- not if there's a conflict. If there's no conflict, I guess, what difference does it make? But we won't let him do any of anything having to do with the conflict.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you personally checking to make sure there's no conflicts of interest?

TRUMP: Yes, I am. I am.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He answers to you?

TRUMP: Sure. He does.

First of all, he wouldn't do it. And second of all, we're not going to let him do anything where there's a conflict of interest.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President your negotiations with the E.U. are, you know, there's just discussions ongoing already. How quickly do you expect that you'll hear back from them about any of these --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I can't tell you. Yes, the E.U. has been very nasty. It's just been -- they haven't treated us properly. Look, we were great to them on NATO. Essentially, it's similar group of countries.

When I came in my first term, I raised their fees. I mean, they were not paying. We we're paying for, in my opinion, almost all of NATO.

And now, you know, I had the bad moment with the press, where the press said, well, does this mean you won't protect him? I said, I won't protect them if they're not paying.

But because I said that, the secretary-general, as you know, said it was the greatest thing he's ever seen because the money came pouring in.

And, but they don't treat us right on trade. They don't treat us right on the military either. I mean, if you look at Ukraine, we're in for probably $200 billion more than Europe. Why are we in for more than Europe? We're in for more than Europe.

[14:55:00] I mean, think of it -- or in NATO. I mean, let's just call it that, because Canada is in -- and by the way, Canada is just about the lowest payer also just, you know, they shouldn't be. They are just about the lowest payer in NATO in addition to everything else.

So Canada has really been taking advantage of -- and if they had to pay just something modestly fair, they wouldn't be able to succeed as a country. And that's why -- that's why I feel they have to become a state.

Yes, ma'am?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President.

Is it your expectation that partners will offer major concessions and that you actually don't end up applying those tariffs?

TRUMP: No, I think that a lot of them will stay the same. And whatever they pay, I'll pay. I mean, we'll have -- we'll have a lot of them stay the same.

I think some look -- I heard, as an example, E.U. lowered their tax on cars down to the exact same amount that -- they were much higher. They were approximately five times higher. And they lowered them down to the exact tax that we're charging. That took place like yesterday or the day before.

Is that a correct statement? I think so, yes.

SANCHEZ: Do you expect any exemptions or waivers?

TRUMP: I don't expect that, no. This is a simple system. I mean, there wouldn't be any.

And in the case of Apple, I gave them a waiver, an exemption in my first term because Samsung was in South Korea and Samsung didn't have to pay the tax because it was a tax on China.

And Apple makes a lot of their product in China. So I did that because it wouldn't have been fair. But now this applies to everybody across the board. This is a much simpler way of doing it. Much better way.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I'm sorry you had that major call yesterday with President Putin of Russia. President Zelenskyy responded today basically saying any agreements they won't accept unless they're made with Ukraine.

Will Ukraine have a seat at that table for those negotiations?

TRUMP: They would. I mean, they're part of it. We would have Ukraine, wed have Russia, and we'll have other people involved, too. A lot of people, a lot of a lot of forks in the -- a lot of forks in this game. I'll tell you what, this is a very interesting situation.

But the Ukraine war has to end. The young people are being killed at levels that nobody has seen since World War II. And it's a ridiculous war and it has to end.

We had a good talk with President Putin. I had a good talk with President Zelenskyy. Very good talk.

And somebody said, oh, I should have called Zelenskyy first. I don't think so. I mean, we have to find out whether or not Russia wants to make a deal. I know that Zelenskyy wants to make a deal because he told me that. But I now know that Russia wants to make a deal.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Did you ask Secretary Hegseth to walk back his comments yesterday, saying Ukraine won't join NATO and won't go back to pre-2014 borders because those are bargaining chips you could use?

TRUMP: No. I didn't. Somebody told me, but I thought his comments were good yesterday and they're probably good today. They're a little bit softer perhaps. But I thought his comments from yesterday, I thought his comments yesterday we're pretty accurate.

I don't see any way that a country in Russia's position could allow them, just in their position, could allow them to join NATO. I don't see that happening.

And long before President Putin, Russia was very strong on the fact that -- I believe that's the reason the war started, because Biden went out and said that they could join NATO, and he shouldn't have said that.

As soon as he said that, I said, you know what, you're going to have a war now. And I was right about that. This is a war that would have never happened if I were president.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: I think Biden is incompetent. And I think, when he said that they could join NATO, I thought that was a very stupid thing to say.

I thought when he said, well, it depends if it's a minor incursion. In other words, it's OK if Russia does a minor incursion. I thought that was a very foolish thing to say.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When Elon Musk --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: -- things got it started. The other thing that got it started was how badly Milley and these stupid people and bad generals, how badly they did with Afghanistan. I was going to pull out, but we were pulling out with dignity and

strength, and we were going to take our equipment with us and everything else.

They are -- I mean, what they're doing is -- what they did with that, I think Putin looked at that mess and he said, wow, this is a great time. I'm going to go in.

But what -- what the Americans said, I'm not blaming Americans, but I will say what they said had a big influence on his deciding to go in.

Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When Elon Musk met with Prime Minister Modi earlier today, did he do so as an American CEO or did he do so as a representative of the U.S. government?

TRUMP: Are you talking about me?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No. Elon Musk.

TRUMP: Elon? I don't know. He -- they met and I assume he wants to do business in India. But India is a very hard place to do business in because of the tariffs. They -- they have the highest tariffs just about in the world. And it's a hard place to do business.

[14:59:57]

No, I would imagine he met possibly because, you know, he's running a company. He's doing this as a -- as something that he's felt strongly about for a long time because he sees what's happening.