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Trump Considering Reciprocal Tariffs Even as Inflation Spikes; Trump: Ukraine Will be Part of Any Peace Negotiations; Trump: "Would Love" to Have Russia Back in G7; Trump Says He Wants Defense Spending Summit with Russia, China; "Special Employee" Elon Musk Meets Privately with Indian PM Modi. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 13, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... because, you know, he's running the company. He's doing this as a - as something that he's felt strongly about for a long time, because he sees what's happening and he sees how the country is really being hurt badly by all of the fraud, waste and abuse, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, how would you (INAUDIBLE) this meeting with the CEO or meeting with a representative of your government?

TRUMP: Well, he's meeting with me in a little while so I'm going to ask him that question, all right? I'll ask him that question, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) what should we expect, sir, you mentioned (INAUDIBLE) on the pharmaceutical, what are you thinking about (INAUDIBLE) ...

TRUMP: I think orders are coming soon. I think they're all coming more or less at the same time and it's not going to be a big shock to the system, but what it's going to do is it's going to bring pharmaceuticals back to our country much more important than the money. It's a lot of money, but it's going to bring pharmaceuticals back to our country. It's going to bring chips back to our country. It's going to bring automobile. We're going to do a lot more automobile manufacturing in our country.

You know, when I did this when I announced this during the campaign they were going to build the largest car plant in the world in Mexico. It was almost under construction. It was just starting. And when they heard me make that statement and they thought I was going to win the election actually, it was a few months before the election itself, China was building the car plant. It was going to be the largest in the world. They immediately stopped construction. You can see the foundations there. They immediately stopped when they heard I was doing this.

That would have destroyed Detroit or would have destroyed Michigan. This plant would have taken up more than almost the whole state built and it would have been very destructive. When they heard me speak and they said, wow, if he gets in we're going to lose our share. So, they stopped building. That's the impact that tariffs have.

Again, you know, I say it and I say it loudly, it's the most beautiful word, but now I say religion love, and a couple of other things are more beautiful because I got a lot of problem with the fake news when they said other things are more important. God is more important, but these are the words, but I would say it's number four or five. To me it's the most beautiful.

And I'll tell you what, I think really reciprocal tariffs, those two words, reciprocal makes tariffs really fair.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) no exemptions, right? It would be all auto imports?

TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) any exemptions now because you don't need to. With reciprocal, you don't need to.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, (INAUDIBLE) ...

TRUMP: Who you're with?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fox Radio. Do you have any update on the TikTok negotiations and (INAUDIBLE) --

TRUMP: Yes, we have a lot of people - well, I have 90 days from about two weeks ago, right? And I'm sure it can be extended, but let's see. I don't think you'll need to - we have a lot of people interested in TikTok and I hope to be able to make a deal. I think it would be good.

You know, people have learned it's very popular and we'll have to probably get approval from China to do it, but we have a lot of people that are interested and a lot of people - I think China will be interested, because it's to their benefit, too. So, I look forward to that. But we have a lot of people that are interested in TikTok, quite a few.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, DOGE workers arrived today, Gavin Kliger and others arrived today at the IRS. Do you expect to close the IRS or what are you expecting?

TRUMP: No, I don't expect it, but ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're talking about the ERS (ph) ...

TRUMP: But I think - so I think that the Internal Revenue Service will be looked at like everybody. It's just about everybody's going to be looked at, so it's - they're doing a hell of a job. It's an amazing job they're doing and, you know, that force is building these - I call it the force of super geniuses, but it's building.

And, you know, they go up and they talk to some of the people about certain deals and the people get all tongue-tied. They can't talk because these people get it. They're very smart people. We need smart people, yes, Brian (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On tariff, sir ...

TRUMP: Yes, Brian (ph).

BRIAN: Yes, sir. Mr. President, I know that during the campaign it was huge in Pennsylvania as far as bringing back manufacturing.

TRUMP: Right.

BRIAN: We talked to any CEOs since the tariffs were announced in steel and aluminum. What's the feedback on those deals?

TRUMP: They are in love with it. As you know in Pennsylvania U.S. Steel is through the roof. They're all through the roof. That's why I didn't want U.S. Steel to make a deal with Japan or anybody else. I think it's going to do great. But I think maybe more than anybody else, the steel companies and aluminum companies, they're in love with what's happened.

And this will eventually be the car companies and chip companies. We have to have chips made in this country. Right now, we - everything's made in Taiwan, practically, almost all of it a little bit in South Korea. But everything almost all of it is made in Taiwan. And we want it to be made - we want those companies to come to our country in all due respect.

You know, they took the business away. Taiwan took our chip business away. We had Intel. We had these great companies that did so well and it was taken from us and we want that business back. We want it back in the United States.

[15:05:02]

And if they don't bring it back, we're not going to be very happy.

BRIAN: And you mentioned pharmaceuticals ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, on tariffs, are you ...

TRUMP: Yes, Brian (ph)?

BRIAN: ... pharmaceuticals as well in China, that's national security to bring that back.

TRUMP: And other places, yes. China and other places, we want to get the pharmaceutical and drug business back into the United States, where it should be, right? (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, on tariffs, are you concerned that the countries that would be most affected like India would just shift their trading to China?

TRUMP: No, I'm not concerned about anything really. I mean, I'm just doing what's fair. There's a very fair thing. This should have been done a long time ago. I would have done it, but then COVID hit. I was getting ready to do this years ago in the first term. We had the most successful economy in history and then COVID hit and I was - this was going to be the thing that I was most waiting to do, but it was awfully hard to do this with Italy, and France, and Spain, and these - all those people were dying and then we put tariffs on. I have a big heart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, on Ukraine, when Putin says that he really wants peace, do you believe him?

TRUMP: Yes, I do. I believe he wants peace. I believe that President Putin when I spoke to him yesterday - I mean, I know him very well. Yes, I think he wants peace. I think he would tell me if he didn't. I think he - I'd like to see peace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you trust President Putin?

TRUMP: I believe that - yes, I believe that he would like to see something happen. I trust him on this subject. I think he'd like to see something happen. I think it could have happened a long time ago. I think Biden, number one, it shouldn't have started, but it did and now all those cities are knocked down like demolition sites. All those beautiful golden towers are knocked down. There's nothing going to replace them, but much more importantly you lost millions of people. A lot of soldiers, but you lost millions of people.

When they knocked down those cities and they're all laying down on the side, they're lying down just in ashes and all crumbled up concrete, they literally look like a world-class demolition site. And many of them - almost all of them but many of them and this should have been done by Biden years ago. This should have never been allowed to happen. I know he's a friend of yours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But can Putin just withdraw his troops today?

TRUMP: He's a friend of CNN, that's why nobody watches CNN anymore, because they have no credibility. Okay, who else? Yes, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, if you can find a buyer in the United States for TikTok, do you think Xi Jinping will authorize the sale of it?

TRUMP: I'm going to make it worthwhile for China to do it. I think so. I mean, I got to know TikTok, because during the election I ended up with 36 percent higher than my opponent with youth, okay, that never happened before. I think, you know, that's always been a Democrat thing, youth became a Trump thing and I think TikTok, I think Joe Rogan was a part of it, some of the great people that I did interviews with were a part of it. But I think that TikTok was a, I think was a big part.

Look, as you know we were up by 36 percent with youth. The Republican was never up with youth. And I focused on TikTok and I found it to be amazing actually and very fair. And I think the image of TikTok is different than it was before the election. I think people saw it and they view it as a positive not a negative. I think it'll be to China's advantage to have the deal be made. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How money do you think you'll raise for tariffs on an annual basis? TRUMP: That's the most interesting question, I think it'll be a staggering amount. It will be the external - I call it the external revenue service, that was a name that was devised by a few of us, but it's - I think it's going to be a staggering amount.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the one trillion quoted in meetings with senators, is that a number you thought of?

TRUMP: Well, I don't know. I don't know, but already the Senate say, well, wait a minute, you know, they're looking at some of the numbers and they're saying, whoa, this is - look, we want to - I say America first, I say make America great again, that's what we're doing. This is - I think it's the most important thing I've signed. I've signed some very important things. Right to try was so important.

I mean, a lot of important things, Space Force, the biggest tax cuts in history. You know, this could be one of the most important things that we've ever signed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you plan for the Russians and President Putin to attend the summit in Saudi Arabia?

TRUMP: Eventually, yes. Not quite yet. It's a little early. They're having a meeting in Munich tomorrow. Russia is going to be there with our people. Ukraine is also invited by the way, not sure exactly who's going to be there from any country. But high-level people from Russia, from Ukraine and from the United States is going to be --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you (INAUDIBLE) add Russia back to the G7, sir?

TRUMP: I'd love to have them back. I think it was a mistake to throw them out. Look, it's not a question of liking Russia or not liking Russia. It was the G8 and you know I've - I said, what are you doing? You guys - all you talk about is Russia and you - they should be sitting at the table. I think Putin would love to be back.

[15:10:04]

Obama and a couple of other people made a mistake and they got Russia out. It's very possible that if that was the G8 you wouldn't have had the problem with Ukraine. And if I was president, you definitely wouldn't have had the problem with Ukraine. Russia would have never attacked Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I ask (INAUDIBLE) ...

TRUMP: But you ask a very good question, the G8 - used to be the G8 and then these people throw them out. And I was arguing with Trudeau and with numerous of the people - actually, Prime Minister Abe a great man from Japan agreed with me a hundred percent and some of the others did too. But I got there it was the G7 as you know. They had already been terminated.

I think it would have been very helpful and it still would be helpful to have Russia be a part of that mix. And I think if they were, I don't think you would have had the problem that you have right now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... is part of the G20.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... because - they kicked them out, of course, because they illegally annexed Crimea. I mean, how would you have responded if Russia invaded or took (INAUDIBLE) ...

TRUMP: Well, they took Crimea during Obama ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 2014.

TRUMP: They took - now, they're looking to take the whole thing, then they took a big chunk of land and people as you know during Bush. And now they're trying to take the whole thing during Biden, you know, the only one that didn't give him anything is Trump. They never took anything with Trump, nothing, not two inches of property of land.

But Crimea was Obama and then Bush gave him a lot, you remember. And then - in fact it's a sort of a standard little phrase and Biden's giving them everything, because this is a war that shouldn't have been had. And the only one that didn't give him anything is Trump. It's the way it ...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the message with Wall Street about these tariffs? There's been some nervousness in Wall Street about the impact ...

TRUMP: I don't think so. I mean, it hasn't been very much and I think it's going to make the United States stronger and in many ways it could make other countries stronger, too. You know, other countries want to have a strong United States. I want to have a strong America and I think it's going to make us very, very strong, much stronger and we have a lot of work we're doing on the military. Our military already I've authorized some contracts to be built that are very substantial. We're building the greatest equipment in the world. We have the greatest military equipment in the world, we're building it.

At some point when things settle down, I'm going to meet with China and I'm going to meet with Russia in particular those two and I'm going to say there's no reason for us to be spending almost a trillion dollars on military. There's no reason for you to be spending $400 billion. China is going to be at $400 billion. We're at a trillion. We're going to be at - close to a trillion and I'm going to say we can settle this on - we can spend this on other things. We don't have to spend this on military because - and I'm going to be meeting with China.

You know, we were trying to de-escalate nuclear and I was in a position where Russia had agreed and China had agreed we were going to start and then we had a rigged election so that never took place, but this one was too big to rig. We won by so much that it was too big to rig. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) meeting in United States or would you travel to China for that?

TRUMP: For what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The China meeting.

TRUMP: I tell people all the time, you know, the question is who's going to have the first meeting, where you going to - I say this to Putin, to President Xi, I say to everybody, never bothered me, you know, I'm willing to say I'll go first. It doesn't matter. It's the end result that counts, so it doesn't make any difference.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you want to have a conversation about global defense spending, you, China or Russia?

TRUMP: Well, I like to have that - as soon as things settle down I'm going to have that conference primarily with China and Russia, because those are the two that really are out there. And we're going to have them spend a lot less money and we're going to spend a lot less money. And I know they're going to do it. They agreed to it.

We were talking about de-nuking, de-nuclearize - de-nuking and President Putin and I agreed that we were going to do it in a very big way. There's no reason for us to be building brand new nuclear weapons. We already have so many you could destroy the world 50 times over, a hundred times over and here we are building new nuclear weapons and they're building nuclear weapons and China's building new nuclear weapons and China's trying to catch up because, you know, they're very substantially behind, but within five or six years, they'll be even.

And we're all spending a lot of money that we could be spending on other things that are actually hopefully much more productive. Hopefully, there'll never be a time when we need those weapons. If there's ever a time when we need nuclear weapons like the kind of weapons that we're building and that Russia has and that China has to a lesser extent, but will have, that's going to be a very sad day. That's going to be probably oblivion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see them in separate conversation or do you see one giant summit with you, Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin?

[15:15:00]

TRUMP: Yes, I could see that. Let things calm down a little bit. You know, when I left, we had no Middle East problem. We had no Russia going into Ukraine. They'd never would have done it. Putin never would have done it. And I came back and we got like the whole world is blowing up.

So, when we straighten it all out, then I want to have - one of the first meetings I want to have is with President Xi of China, President Putin of Russia and I want to say let's cut our military budget in half and we can do that. And I think we'll be able to do it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Elon Musk identify as wasteful spending in the Defense Department, defense contractors and the like, are you willing to go after that spending as well (INAUDIBLE) ...

TRUMP: Well, as we go waste, fraud and abuse, yes, and we're doing that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could we - you know, I'm just wondering about your conversation on defense spending. Would you want to do that as a trilateral or would you use the existing body that also - already includes China and Russia the G20?

TRUMP: No, it's the people. It's President Putin, President Xi. I don't need bodies. I don't need anything. It's people. It's all about people. It's about relationship and people. And, you know, I've had a good relationship with President Putin. I've had a good relationship with President Xi. It's about people.

And I think when things straighten out, which I hope will be in the not-too-distant future, the meeting I want to have first is a meeting with China and a meeting with Russia on slowing down, stopping and reducing nuclear weapons in particular and also on not having to spend the kind of money we're all spending on weapons, military weapons, generally.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think my question is would you have those meetings separately with each of those leaders or would you try to bring them all together?

TRUMP: Both, you start off separately and, yes, that's what was happening. I was dealing with President Putin. We had really an understanding where we were going to de-nuclearize - what a beautiful term that is, right, de-nuclearize. What a great thing if we could do that. And we'll - we were going to - he really liked the idea and so did I and we had then called China and China was very open to it. And then COVID hit and then we had a rigged election.

But now there was no rigged election now. We have a - an election that was too big to rig. That's what - my whole theme was too big to rig and they tried, but they didn't pull it off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, as part of the reciprocal tariffs, would you also direct agencies to study the impact they would have on prices in the U.S.?

TRUMP: No, there's nothing to study. There's nothing to study. It's going to go well. You know, the United States is going to become a very, very strong economic - economically country, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President ...

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We've been listening to President Trump inside the Oval Office answering questions from reporters. We're going to keep monitoring his responses a lot to wrap up. We'll do it after a quick break. Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:11]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We've just been listening to President Trump in the Oval Office as he has announced reciprocal tariffs and basically import taxes if they are levied at the U.S., the U.S. is going to levy them back. And he said many things aside from just those taxes which by the way do not kick in immediately.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

KEILAR: But justifying them by saying the EU, the European Union has been very nasty. He dinged Canada as well. And he also of course talked about Ukraine and Russia.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and that perhaps was some of the most notable commentary coming from Trump there saying that he trusts Vladimir Putin on Ukraine and though he says that Kyiv is going to have a seat at the negotiating table, he looks forward to eventually meeting with Putin in Saudi Arabia and he added to comments made yesterday by the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth saying that he does not see how Russia - a country in Russia's position would allow Ukraine to join NATO.

And then, in what was a confusing array this sort of explanation of history that was off, Trump essentially said that the war in Ukraine would not have happened had former President Obama not kicked Russia out of the G8. To fact-check that, Russia was kicked out of the G8 for annexing Crimea which is a part of Ukraine or was a part of Ukraine until Russia took over it, so that's a weird basis for logic there. He also talked about Elon Musk.

KEILAR: Yes, that's right. And he said that he thinks that DOGE, the Department of Government efficiency is doing a great job. He said very smart people there. They are at the IRS, DOGE is, and he said that, you know, he doesn't expect the IRS to go away, but he thinks that they're going to be looked at like everyone else. They're doing a hell of a job that's what he said about DOGE and Elon Musk.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And one other thing that was noteworthy, he pointed out - a reporter pointed out that Musk had met with Prime Minister Modi of India earlier in the day and Trump was asked specifically whether Musk had met with Modi as a representative of the U.S. government or as a CEO. Of course, Musk has all these government contracts.

KEILAR: So many ...

SANCHEZ: Not just with the United States, his business in China he apparently wanted to talk to Modi and Trump said that he didn't know if they talked business. But that he would ask Modi later in the day when they are set to meet.

KEILAR: Yes, which really highlights the conflicts here for Elon Musk. All right. We have an all-star group of folks to break down all of this and we're going to need every last one of them. Let's begin here in studio, we have Mark Preston and Aaron Klein with us. What stood out to you, Aaron, on the tariffs?

AARON KLEIN, FORMER TREASURY DEPT. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY: So, what stands out to me on the tariffs is something that makes sense and something that doesn't. The first is he's not just going to be reciprocal in terms of the exact tariff rate on the line item. He's going to include things like currency manipulation or other import subsidies, export subsidies that the countries have, that makes sense.

[15:25:05]

Then, he goes further and says he's going to include VATs, which is like a sales tax very common in other countries, particularly in Europe, which makes absolutely no sense. So, if you include the European VAT in a reciprocal tariff, you're just going to be upping and starting a trade war by having a number that's way too high.

KEILAR: Explain that though. Let's say, okay, well if someone is purchasing a BMW and there's like a 20-something percent VAT on it, well, why should that not be important?

KLEIN: Because there's a 20 percent VAT on a Chevy, too. The VATs are reciprocal. It'd be like including a U.S. sales tax, you know, some states have different sales taxes than others. In fact, when you see a car advertised, it's usually not including sales tax in the price ad, it's added on - it's not a trade levy. It's a value-added levy. It's their version of a national sales tax and that makes no sense. That is not a trade element.

SANCHEZ: Right. Mark, we've seen Donald Trump bounce around on a number of policy issues throughout his political career. But something that he's maintained for decades now is this sense that the United States is being taken advantage of by the rest of the world. So, this announcement today very much plays into who Donald Trump has built himself as.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, no doubt. And look, he's not the only one. I mean, there's a reason why he won the election, right? He is standing up for what a lot of people in America think that our leaders have not done for many, many years.

You know, Aaron and I were talking about - just about some of the cuts that we're seeing right now and just how devastating they are going to be in some places. But, yet, there is still fat on the bone so to speak. There is programs throughout the federal government that were not only championed by Democrats, but also Republicans that would be considered fat.

So, Donald Trump when he goes in there, he tries to be very simple about things tries to speak in very plain terms. And, you know what? He seems more believable than some expert who - or some - somebody who's been in Washington for 20 to 25 years who keeps saying the same thing in your life, hasn't changed.

KLEIN: This argument that free trade has been good for people that we've had a good deal with China for 20 years has been soundly rejected by the American people, soundly, right? But you haven't seen a major change and he's speaking to that. The problem is his policies aren't implementing what he's speaking.

PRESTON: Right.

KLEIN: He's not going in cutting out waste, fraud and abuse. You want to find that, look at the paycheck protection program that he put out in COVID, which was rampant with fraud. No, no, no, he's taking a sledgehammer and destroying things on an ideological basis ...

PRESTON: Right.

KLEIN: ... not rooting out things.

KEILAR: I was going to say let's talk a little bit about Russia and Ukraine It was such a large part of what he talked about there in the Oval Office. I want to bring in Jill Dougherty to talk a little bit about this.

Jill, you heard him. He said, "I believe Putin wants peace. I trust him on the subject. The war wouldn't have started if I had been president." And He went on to note repeatedly, he said, "The only person who was president that Putin did not basically do a land grab during their presidency was Trump. He did it during Bush. He did it during Obama. He did it during Biden."

Trump notably, of course, kind to Russia even as it had interfered with the U.S. election in 2016, we should note.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FORMER MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Right. Well, I mean Trump right now is poised to give Vladimir Putin everything that he wants. You know, Crimea, eastern part of Donbass, eastern part of Ukraine everything that President Putin wants is being offered to him even before the negotiations begin. Although you could say that the negotiations have already begun and they are between Russia and the United States and then Ukraine.

So, this is a real - I'd say quite surprising development and happening very fast. I mean, look at everything that Vladimir Putin got out of this news conference. He got, let's get Russia back in the G7. He got I believe Putin when he says that he wants peace. He got, I think also this idea that President Trump has which is we - you know, it's called the great man theory that it's not organizations, it's not the world organizations, it's great men, Putin, Trump, Xi who decide everything and that's exactly what we got.

We also got - I mean, go down the list, we also got no NATO for Russia. In fact, President Putin said Russia should have some - I don't see why any country like Russia should - could allow Ukraine to become part of NATO. Russia doesn't have a veto on membership in NATO. So, I'm pretty astounded by how well Putin came out of this, his conversation with the President was very effective, because President Putin - President Trump is quoting almost everything that Vladimir Putin wants.

[15:30:06] SANCHEZ: Let's go to Alex Marquardt who's also ...