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Republican Chair of Senate Armed Service Committee Criticizes Trump Administration for Comments about Ukraine's Eligibility for NATO Membership; Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Interviewed on Trump Administration Approach to Ending War between Russia and Ukraine; Democrat-led States Sue Musk and DOGE Over Wielding "Unchecked Power"; Interview with Rep. Brad Schneider (D-IL). Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 14, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

SUNI WILLIAMS, NASA ASTRONAUT: Twitch muscle action back again. But I think both of us will be a little bit sad when that feeling of space sort of leaves us after about 24 hours and we're not a little bit motion sickness from coming back home. That will actually be a little bit sad when that goes away, just because that means that really, physically the spaceflight came to an end.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I know you've been asked this question before, but do you feel you've been abandoned?

BUTCH WILMORE, NASA ASTRONAUT: We don't feel abandoned. We don't feel stuck. We don't feel stranded. I understand why others may think that. We come prepared. We come committed. That is what your human space flight program is. It prepares for any and all contingencies that we can conceive of, and we prepare for those. So if you'll help us change the rhetoric, help us change the narrative, let's change it to prepared and committed vice what you've been hearing. That's what we prefer.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking news. A scathing takedown of the Trump administrations Ukraine comments from the Republican chair of the Armed Services Committee saying he is puzzled and disturbed. We're standing by to hear from Vice President J.D. Vance after he made confusing comments on the U.S. commitment. And the Ukrainian leader says he does not believe the U.S. has a plan to end the war.

The top federal prosecutor in New York quits, refusing to drop the corruption case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. She accuses him of a new attempted quid pro quo to end the case. And this morning, he's making new immigration moves accommodating the White House.

This morning, Americans are struggling with high inflation and high interest rates as the burden of debt is heavier than ever before.

Sara is out. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we are standing by to hear from Vice President J.D. Vance in Munich. His remarks this morning all the more important, getting all the more attention after what he just told "The Wall Street Journal", which is that the U.S. could use sending troops to Ukraine as a, quote-unquote, tool of leverage if Russia failed to negotiate in good faith.

Now, some people are reading that as meaning U.S. troops going to Ukraine is on the table, even though the defense secretary has said the exact opposite. Hence, there is confusion that needs to be clarified.

Vance, J.D. Vance, the vice president, will also be meeting with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy today, who just said that he does not believe the United States has a readymade plan to end Russia's war.

And there's also this with regard to the ongoing actual war, a drone attack at Chernobyl's nuclear site. Radiation levels are now being monitored. Ukraine blaming Russia, with President Zelenskyy saying this, that it shows, quote, "Putin is definitely not preparing for negotiations. He's preparing to continue deceiving the world."

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House for us. Let's go to CNN's Alex Marquardt, who is in Munich for us this morning. Alex, back to you. What is the latest that you're hearing?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, in just about half-an-hour's time, the vice president is going to take the stage. And I think what a lot of people are going to be want to hearing here is a clarification of the U.S. position on what a deal might look like, what the future of Ukraine might look like in the view of this administration because of some confusion over the last few days.

There has been a lot of criticism from Democrats, some Republicans, many Europeans, that the U.S. has been conceding too much to Russia before the negotiations even begin. A lot of that coming because of comments made by the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, just a few days ago, who said in no uncertain terms that there would be no U.S. troops in Ukraine, that security guarantees for Ukraine would have to come from the European side, and that Ukraine would not be a member of NATO.

Now, all the top officials of the Trump administration, including the president himself, are saying that Ukraine almost certainly will not be a member of NATO. But it's the other components of that that are really getting a lot of attention. Here we have a new interview today in "The Wall Street Journal" from the vice president, J.D. Vance, who appears to walk back those Hegseth comments, essentially saying that everything is still on the table, that nothing has been given away. He said that there are economic tools of leverage. That means there could be more sanctions against Russia. He said that there are military tools of leverage, so he is still allowing for the possibility that U.S. troops could go to Ukraine as part of a peacekeeping force. Another tool of military leverage is, of course, weapons. And Ukraine is trying to get more U.S. weapons to be sent to them. One thing we are keeping an eye out for is a possible deal between the U.S. and Ukraine over rare earth minerals, and the U.S.'s ability to take over hundreds of billions of dollars of mines of rare earth minerals in Ukraine. So there's going to be a lot that people are looking out for in this speech in just a few minutes.

[08:05:02]

But also that meeting that you mentioned later on between the vice president and the Ukrainian president, there's going to be a lot of pressure, not just from the Ukrainians, but from the Europeans for continued American support and presence in Europe, if not in Ukraine itself, as the sides try to reach some kind of peace deal. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Alex, thank you so much. A lot to come. We're going to be getting back to Alex.

Let's get over to the White House. Alayna, what are you hearing from the White House this morning?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, look, I think Alex is exactly right, and I know we've been talking about this behind the scenes as well. Look, one of the key things I'm being told repeatedly about some of the back-and-forth questioning about what exactly is the position of the White House and the United States as all of these talks are ongoing, and, of course, as they prepare for negotiations with both Russia and Ukraine, as they try to continue to find an off ramp to the war.

What I am told repeatedly, from what the Defense Secretary Hegseth is saying to Vice President J.D. Vance, the key through line through all of it, or at least what they're trying to say now and the position that they want to make clear is that nothing is off the table. Everything is on the table. That doesn't necessarily mean they are bringing up certain ideas or proposals. They just want Donald Trump to be able to go into these negotiations with both Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy and have everything at his fingertips, really, and rule nothing out. That is what I'm hearing right now from people at the White House about all of this.

Now, I do also just want to bring your attention to some of the things we heard directly from the president himself yesterday, because one of the key things and the concerns that we were picking up on is after he had what he, President Trump referred to as a long call with Putin, people were worried that that meant, will Ukraine actually have a seat at the table if they are going to have some sort of meeting about an end to the war? Listen to what the president told CNN yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will Ukraine have a seat at that table for those negotiations? DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: Of course, they would. I mean,

they're part of it. We would have Ukraine. We would have Russia, and we'll have other people involved to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Kate, I think the big, you know, question here, of course, is what could these look like? There are some uncertainties and concerns from European allies about how much the United States is going to continue supporting Ukraine through all of this. But as the president said there, and as I'm hearing from my conversations with White House officials, they do want all parties involved in this conversation. Whenever those negotiations actually do begin. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Alayna, thank you so much. Alex Marquardt in Munich, thank you guys both. John?

BERMAN: With us now is a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker, also former special representative for Ukraine. Ambassador, it is always great to see you. You are joining us from Munich, where there's an awful lot going on right now.

The U.S. Senate chair of the Armed Services Committee, Republican Roger Wicker, gave an interview with "Politico" a short time ago where he talked about some of the comments that have been made the last few days in Europe, first in Brussels, now in Munich, by Secretary Pete Hegseth and others. And Senator Wicker says, quote, "I prefer we didn't give away negotiating positions before we actually get started talking about the end of the Russia-Ukraine war." Specifically, he's talking about Hegseth saying that Ukraine won't be part of NATO. There are other things as well. What do you think of that?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Right. Well, I think that that is right in principle. I don't agree necessarily that's what Hegseth was doing. But it's been clarified already by Vice President Vance both in his interview with "The Wall Street Journal" and then some of the conversations he's already been having here in Munich is making clear that nothing is off the table. There is no limitation on the decisions that are going to be before President Trump in the future.

I think what Hegseth was doing, and if you read his comments carefully, it was saying that it's unrealistic for Ukraine to take back its territory militarily right now, very similar to what President Zelenskyy said back in January. And then also that it's unrealistic that Russia is going to agree to Ukraine's NATO membership, which is also true, and also something we shouldn't even be talking to Russia about. It's not their business. It's only for Ukraine and NATO to discuss in the future.

But I think the reaction to those comments in the media was so strong and all over the place, and accusing Hegseth of taking things off the table, that it's very helpful that the White House has now come out and clarified there are no options off the table.

BERMAN: Well, look, I did read them carefully and the reaction wasn't just in the media. The reaction was in Russia as well, where the reporting is that the Russians were very pleased to hear some of that and some of the language that they've used and Vladimir Putin has used since the beginning of the conflict, almost parroted by people in the administration. The president himself now says that he would like Russia, he's open to the idea of Russia being back in the G-7, that will be the G-8, again, before negotiations begin. What's the wisdom in that?

VOLKER: Yes. Well, on that one, I have to say there's a big question mark.

[08:10:01]

G-7 bringing Russia back would take an agreement among all our European allies. That is going to be dependent on their agreeing that it's time to do that. And with the war crimes that Putin has committed, I think they're going to have a hard time with that among our European allies.

But let me take a step back and frame it this way. I think what President Trump is trying to do is push Putin, that is, with threats of more sanctions or even military presence, to get him to the table and also to encourage him, say, look, it's time to come in and stop the war. And he's doing this push and pull to get negotiations started.

And then I think what we're going to see is a focus on an immediate ceasefire to stop the fighting, deterrence based in Ukraine so that there will be no more Russian attacks, and much of that burden being borne by European allies. So ceasefire, deterrence, and burden sharing, I think that's where President Trump is trying to drive this.

BERMAN: I guess the calibration, though, is between pushing and encouraging, right? How much strength do you think Vladimir Putin sees in the U.S. position?

VOLKER: I think Vladimir Putin knows that the U.S. is in a strong position. Both President Trump coming off the elections in November, and then some of the actions that he's taken abroad and domestically are very bold strokes, whether you like them or not. He's showing a lot of determination, a lot of assertiveness.

And meanwhile, President Putin knows -- he'll never talk about it, but he knows his economy is in bad shape, very high inflation, very high interest rates, labor shortage. He knows his military is in bad shape. So what I think President Trump is doing again is trying to demonstrate to Putin we have the upper hand here. We're in a stronger position. But we want you to come in and stop this war.

BERMAN: Who do you think he's pushing more, President Trump, Vladimir Putin or Volodymyr Zelenskyy? Because President Zelenskyy of Ukraine is saying right now that he basically doesn't see a plan from the United States.

VOLKER: That's intentional. I don't think the U.S. intended to put out a plan. I think what the U.S. wants to do is get Putin into a position where he's ready to agree to stop the war, because its only Russia that's waging this war against Ukraine. There wouldn't be a war without that. So the target here is getting Putin to stop it. And then --

BERMAN: Ambassador, I have to say, I have to say --

VOLKER: What I think the administration people here --

BERMAN: I'm sorry to interrupt, but you say Russia is the one waging the war. There won't be a war without it. That's not what President Trump says. President Trump says there would not have been a war had not somehow the Biden administration raised the idea of Ukrainian membership in NATO.

VOLKER: No, what he says is that it was weakness, that if he was president, he would have been strong. Putin would never have done it. And because of this perception of American weakness, Putin felt that he could get away with it. That's the argument that President Trump is usually making.

And now we're in a situation where with Putin having already unleashed violence on Ukraine, we have to get it back in the bottle. That's a tougher prospect than maintaining deterrence when you already have it.

BERMAN: Ambassador Kurt Volker in Munich where so much is happening over the next few hours, great to speak with you. Thank you very much.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Accusations of, quote, "seemingly limitless and unchecked power." More than a dozen states now suing to stop Elon Musk's moves to purge the federal government. One of them is joining us.

A new recall to tell you about as well after several people needed their fingertips amputated after using an igloo cooler. We've got more details on this recall impacting millions.

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[08:18:36]

BOLDUAN: So this morning, Democratic state attorneys general are fighting Elon Musk and DOGE; and it's not just one, it's more than a dozen. Fourteen state attorneys general are now suing and asking a federal court to stop Elon Musk, essentially stop him in his tracks immediately, saying this non-governmental employee has been given, "seemingly limitless and unchecked power."

They say the world's richest man is violating the Constitution's Appointments Clause, which directs the president's appointed officials, must be confirmed by the Senate.

Joining us right now is one of the AGs now suing, New Mexico's Attorney General, Raul Torres. Thank you so much, AG. Thank you for being here, Attorney General.

You want a judge to step in and stop Elon Musk. Why do you think his role is illegal?

RAUL TORRES, ATTORNEY GENERAL, NEW MEXICO: Well, listen, we have a principle in our system of government that that respects the separation of powers. And, you know, in America, we haven't been cool with unchecked unelected individuals commanding the government since 1776.

It's something that is woven into our Constitution. It's the reason we have the Appointments Clause. Only Congress can create new departments. The president is then required to submit the heads of those departments to the Senate for advice and consent.

And fundamentally, the president views the presidency more like a monarch. He needs to act in accordance with Article II and go to Congress for authorization for the types of policies that Elon Musk seemingly is able to enact at his whim.

BOLDUAN: Is it the fact that Elon Musk is acting in around the federal government and scrutinizing the federal government at all that is the problem or is it his status as the special governmental employee?

I mean, presidents, Democratic and Republican alike, have used this and utilized people and brought people in like this. But what about Musk makes it so different?

[08:20:14]

TORRES: Well, I actually would disagree with that, Kate. The digital service which used to manage government websites and IT infrastructure was never conceived as a department of everything where the president was free to appoint somebody who has not undergone any kind of vetting or scrutiny by Congress and has not been approved by Congress. More importantly, only Congress can delegate that kind of authority.

We've seen over the last 40 or 50 years conservatives going to court to try and pull back authority from unelected bureaucrats. Now, it seems we have the most powerful unelected bureaucrat in the history of the world, who also happens to be the richest person in the world, acting as co-president. That violates the rule of law, and it violates the Constitution.

BOLDUAN: I want to play for you something that Elon Musk said this week in defending his efforts and DOGE's efforts. Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: I fully expect to be scrutinized and get a daily proctology exam, basically. I might as well just camp out there. So, it's not like I think I can get away with something. I'll be scrutinized nonstop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And he says that they are being transparent in their work, though many would agree that by definition, they're not being transparent, they have not released data of their findings of fraud that are driving these cuts and moves.

But still, that is what Elon Musk thinks, or at least is saying, to that you say what?

TORRES: Well, I think Elon Musk doesn't have any deeper understanding of our Constitution than apparently President Trump does. He simply doesn't have the authority, for example, to go in and feed, properly empowered government agencies to the wood chipper. Congress has that role.

Congress has the ability and has created departments, with specific funding priorities with specific missions. Elon Musk doesn't have the authority to issue a tweet and delete executive agencies. That's simply not what Americans believe in or are comfortable with.

But there's a more important principle here. We may have designed our Constitution to protect against the abuses of an 18th century monarch, but it's no less dangerous to have someone who is totally unelected and unvetted, to have wide ranging and apparently unsupervised control over the entire federal government.

That has to stop. There needs to be the involvement of Congress, the engagement of the elected branches of government and frankly, a delegation of proper authority from the people's representatives.

BOLDUAN: Attorney General, thank you very much for coming on. Let's see what happens in federal court with this lawsuit. I appreciate your time.

Still ahead for us, we are standing by to hear from Vice President JD Vance this morning, speaking out before he is to be meeting today with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:29]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning, a brand new report from AXIOS, "Insiders tell us," they say, "that President Trump, who came into office feeling ebullient and empowered, is just getting more confident -- fueled by his expected clean sweep of Cabinet confirmations, plus a CBS News poll showing a 53 percent approval amid his aggressive 'flood the zone' opening actions."

With us now is Congressman Brad Schneider of Illinois, the chair of the New Democratic Coalition. Congressman, thanks for joining us. So, a more confident President Trump. What do you think that looks like?

REP. BRAD SCHNEIDER (D-IL): Well, I think we see exactly what it looks like. He is expressing his opinions and sweeping through the federal government, thinking he effectively is a king. It's a question whether he's pulling the strings or Elon Musk is pulling the strings.

But everything that they say they want to do is moving along as they would like to think it's happening. It's a lot of chaos and that chaos has a lot of costs for the American people. We're seeing it in the rising costs of eggs and groceries. We're seeing the rising cost of gasoline and as tariffs go through, we're going to see the rising cost of housing and automobiles and so forth.

But the president certainly feels like he is accomplishing, what he says he wants to accomplish right now.

BERMAN: So you are the chair of this new Democratic Coalition. What exactly does that mean? What's the new part of that?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the new reflects our vision looking forward. We are the moderate Democrats. We are the largest group. We've grown to 110 members, up from 42 members when I first came to Congress a decade ago.

We are the centered strong voice of that middle right now, looking for colleagues on the other side of the aisle that we can work with. But it's been pretty much hollowed out.

We're focused on three things. Were focused on an economy that's working for Americans, creating quality, well-paying jobs, creating opportunities. We're focused on healthy and safe communities and a strong national security and national defense.

And for 27 years, we've been putting together ideas and working within the caucus and across the aisle to put the American interests first and advance American policy forward.

BERMAN: So our friends over at Punchbowl this morning in their morning newsletter, said that there are some members of the new Democratic Coalition who are actually getting concerned that too many progressives are joining, and it may be pulling the group a bit to the left, or they could be put in an interesting position, " It's a problem" One new Dem member told us.

Technically, there wouldn't be an issue with progressives joining, but if they're doing it because it's the political zeitgeist at the time, then it's a problem. What problem do you see?

[08:30:15]