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J.D. Vance Meets With Ukrainian President; Federal Prosecutors Resign in Protest Over Eric Adams Case; Trump Administration Fires Thousands of Federal Workers. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 14, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:45]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Slashing the federal work force. President Trump's push to streamline the government takes a dramatic and controversial step forward, as thousands of employees are suddenly fired.

And the show won't go on. As President Trump takes control of the Kennedy Center, the cultural hub cancels the children's musical "Finn." Now the creators of that show are pushing back, saying they won't be silenced. We will speak to them about this controversial cancellation.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And Pope Francis hospitalized. He's been seen in a wheelchair recently and has had a long history with lung issues. We're actually going to speak to a CNN reporter that met with the pontiff hours before he was hospitalized to get the latest on the 88-year-old's condition and what this could mean for the future of the Catholic Church.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Thousands of federal employees are out of a job. Widespread layoffs are now under way, as the Trump administration expands its purge of government agencies.

Probationary workers who have been employed for less than a year or two are taking the brunt of the hit in these new waves of terminations that we're seeing, including more than 1,000 employees at the CDC. That is about a tenth of the work force there.

In the meantime, we're learning that at least one member of Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency visited IRS offices in Washington Thursday, leaving its staffers on edge.

CNN's Rene Marsh is here with more on these developments.

What are you learning about the impacts, Rene?

RENE MARSH, CNN GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: So, Brianna, I have been speaking a lot with the labor unions and they're still trying to get their arms around the full scale and scope of these government-wide firings.

But here's what we know so far. At the Department of Veterans Affairs, more than 1,000 have been fired. Trump VA Secretary Doug Collins said that it would save the agency some $98 million a year. At the Department of Energy, 2,000 were fired, at the CDC, nearly 1,300. And at the U.S. Forest Service, that number is now 3,400.

And sticking with the U.S. Forest Service, that is an agency that manages the nation's public forest and grasslands. And Trump has talked about this agency quite a bit, saying that we need better forest management to prevent wildfires.

And I spoke with a Forest Service source today about the impact of these 3,400 people being let go and what that impact would be in real- life terms. Many of the people let go were not a part of the actual firefighting unit. But they are staffed that the agency would have tapped into as reserve crews during the peak moments of the summer, when we're really seeing a lot more of these intense wildfires.

And now he says they won't have that reserve bench to tap into. So what they will likely have to do is tap into private contractors. And that comes at a higher cost. Also hearing some just real life impacts about the number of people who were let go at the VA.

One woman, one employee fired, worked at a vets center. It's basically a community based clinic. And it helps vets seeking mental health services and other services. So she was that conduit to helping vets try to find that help that they needed.

Also -- and the union actually sent it to me. Her performance review was perfect, so she too one of those wrapped up in those who are -- were fired this week across the government, but just giving you a sense of these are the kind of jobs and employees who are no longer federal employees -- Brianna.

KEILAR: I mean, those are critical jobs as the veteran suicide crisis continues.

Rene Marsh, thanks for following this.

MARSH: Yes.

KEILAR: Boris.

SANCHEZ: New today, a seventh federal prosecutor assigned to New York City Mayor Eric Adams' corruption case just resigned, accusing DOJ leadership of searching for a fool or someone cowardly enough to dismiss the criminal charges.

This comes after Manhattan's top federal prosecutor, along with five senior Justice Department officials, resigned in protests over the effort.

CNN's Kara Scannell joins us now live.

[13:05:02] Kara, what are you hearing about this resignation?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, as you say, this is the seventh prosecutor to resign.

This prosecutor's name is Hagan Scotten, and he was one of the line assistants working on this case. And he submitted a letter of resignation to the Justice Department today in which he points out that he agrees with the decision not to bring the case and also says that what they were suggesting that they wanted the prosecutors to do was to essentially dangle a carrot over New York Mayor Eric Adams, to get him to do what the administration wanted.

And then in exchange, potentially, if he didn't, have the stick of potentially reindicting him down the road.

So in this letter, which is scathing, Hagan writes: "Any assistant U.S. attorney would know that our laws and traditions do not allow using the prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less elected officials in this way. If no lawyer within earshot of the president is willing to give him that advice, then I expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool or enough of a coward to file your motion, but it was never going to be me."

Now, Boris, it's important to point out, some of the allegations here by the Justice Department is that this was a politicized prosecution. But Scotten and the acting U.S. attorney in Manhattan, Danielle Sassoon, who resigned yesterday, they both have conservative credentials.

Sassoon is a member of the Federalist Society. She clerked for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Hagan Scotten, he clerked for Brett Kavanaugh when he was an appellate judge, and also for the chief justice, John Roberts. So they both have conservative backgrounds, conservative ideals, but they are not willing to go along with the directive to dismiss the corruption charges against the New York City mayor, because they don't feel that it's being done for the right reasons, which would be based on the evidence, but instead for the wrong reasons, which is politics -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, they're accusing DOJ of a direct quid pro quo.

Kara, Eric Adams is now responding to some of these accusations. What is he saying?

SCANNELL: Yes, Eric Adams was on FOX News this morning following all these resignations, and this case still has not been dismissed. Some Justice Department attorney would need to step forward, file that motion, and a judge would have to accept it.

But he was on FOX, and this was how he reacted to everything that has happened over the past 24 hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC ADAMS (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: Think about that. Think about that. Think about my attorney, Alex Spiro, one of the top trial attorneys in the country.

Imagine him going inside saying that the only way Mayor Adams is going to assist in immigration, which I was calling for since 2022, is if you drop the charges. That's quid pro quo. That's a crime.

(CROSSTALK)

ADAMS: It took her three weeks to report in front of her a criminal action? Come on, this is silly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: So there you hear that's the mayor reacting to it.

We also did obtain a lawyer -- a letter that his lawyer sent to the Justice Department in which he outlines all the things that Adams could do that could be beneficial in immigration enforcement, but saying that he can't do it because he was facing this indictment -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Kara Scannell, thank you so much for getting us that update.

Let's discuss further with former U.S. attorney Michael Moore and former New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio.

Thank you both for being with us.

Michael, first to you.

In Danielle Sassoon's resignation letter to Attorney General Bondi, she said that Eric Adams' attorneys repeatedly urged what amounted to a quid pro quo to help Trump on immigration if the case was dropped. What do you make of that accusation?

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Bill, I'm glad to be with all of you.

I think this is a quid pro quo by any definition. I don't care if you use the Webster dictionary or the Elon Musk dictionary or whatever, but this is a quid pro quo. And essentially what they have done is they have made a charging decision and a prosecution decision based on whether or not Adams will be in compliance and in agreement with and effectuate, if you will, the administration's policies.

And that is absolutely contrary to everything the Department of Justice stands for. If a lawyer had done that under my charge, they would have been terminated immediately. So I think that this ultimately is going to be a question for a judge.

And if I was a federal judge, I would invite Mr. Bove down to a hearing and allow him to state in this place in front of me why this case should be dismissed at this point and how, in fact, the representations of the action of the department made by the department are not a quid pro quo.

And I would do it both to protect the system and also to say, look, I'm not going to let you do this to a potential defendant to hang the threat of an indictment over their head just because a mayor may not choose later on to wear a MAGA hat or something.

We're just not going to do that. So I think there are real issues to be addressed by court and whether or not this motion moves forward.

KEILAR: Mayor, how do you see it, being a former mayor, this directive, the mayor and how he has certainly curried some favor with the Trump administration with some of his immigration policies and these resignations that have come in the wake of this directive?

[13:10:16]

BILL DE BLASIO (D), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: You know, Brianna, I think there's more to one thing going on and I fear they're all kind of being blended together in a way that's just not fair and not accurate. What is happening in Washington, the Justice Department in general, is, to me, a travesty.

I'm talking about everything we're seeing, the overt politicization of the Justice Department. Obviously, Attorney General Bondi has an enemies list, whether she acknowledged it in her confirmation hearings or not. There's a lot that's going on that's extremely problematic. That is a different question than what's happening with Mayor Adams.

The notion of Mayor Adams has a position immigration that might be different than some other Democrats, all you have to do is pay attention to what he's been saying for years to see that difference. I don't happen to agree with him on a number of things he says or does, but I don't think it's fair to say, because he has that view, that therefore there's a quid pro quo.

I don't see evidence of a quid pro quo. I also think, and I have said it for a while, that the original charges brought against him appeared to me to be very flimsy. The mistake here, I think, is the Justice Department could have and should have said these charges are just not strong enough to continue to pursue.

Apparently, in some of what they put out today, they actually do say that, but that's the way they should have handled it. They shouldn't have kept it an open prosecution. They should have said there's nothing -- there's not enough here to continue with, so we're dropping the case.

SANCHEZ: I am curious to get Michael's response.

But, first, Mayor, could you tell us what actual power Mayor Eric Adams has over New York City's immigration policy? Doesn't that come from city commissioners, a city council?

DE BLASIO: The law that governs the approach to immigration was actually passed during my administration with our city council.

We said, if you have committed a serious or violent crime, I think it was 170 different categories of crime, if you're convicted, you're out of here. If you happen to be undocumented, you should be deported immediately.

But there has to be due process. Mayor Adams has some differences with that, of how the procedure should work. That's his right. He believes he can act by executive order. I think a lot of folks in the city council would say, no, it requires an additional law change.

But that's a legitimate discussion. The real issue here is how any city or state works with ICE or what boundaries we set as sovereign entities. Certainly, ICE should not be in our schools, should not be in our hospitals, should not be in our churches. And there needs to be due process, something that the Trump administration obviously doesn't believe in a lot of the time.

So that's where cities and states really do get to draw the line. And our federal system gives them the power to set their own policies, thank God.

KEILAR: And, Michael, the DOJ directive to the then-acting attorney, it doesn't address the merits of the case against Adams. And it suggests a dismissal of the case in a way that would actually allow for it to be brought up again potentially in the future.

How do you see the case against Adams? Are there teeth to it?

MOORE: You know, I think the case has been charged. And, ultimately, this is a question that would be decided by a trial jury, but it never got that far.

And you're right. The letter that was put out by the department is essentially the statement about quid pro quo. It is that we're not going to address the merits, but as long as he's effectuating the administration's policies and gets out there and helps us on immigration, we don't think the case needs to be prosecuted.

This is complete (AUDIO GAP) memo that was put out by the new attorney general, I think it was about on February the 5th or something, where she says, look, we're not going to let politics both weaponize or politics cannot make decisions for us about how we're going to charge. And you're prohibited, all of you, line attorneys from doing that.

You may as well take this and just flush it down the toilet, because it flies in the face both of her memo. It flies in the face of department regulation. And, frankly, I think a judge is going to say, look, this is absolutely improper under our laws for you to tell a defendant in a case, we're going to stop prosecuting you as long as you will continue to agree with us.

That is the quid pro quo. And that's going to have to be fleshed out. I realize that the department may want to come back and try to clean up some things now. But the key here, and you notice that Mr. Bove is not signing the motion.

And you have got to ask yourself, well, if the department leadership is so certain about this and that they have the authority to properly do this, why don't they just get one of those people that sit in the building there in Washington to sign this motion and appear in court? But they could do it. And I think, again, a federal judge could --

would be well within his province to say, come on down and explain to me how this is proper and what we should do. It sets a terrible precedent. It's dangerous as we move forward.

(CROSSTALK)

DE BLASIO: Mayor Adams, obviously, can put the lie to this whole allegation by deciding on any given situation to stand up to the Trump administration. And that's certainly what I urge him to do.

If he happens to agree with them on a matter, he believes it's good for New York City, that's great. But if he thinks they're doing something that's hurting New York City, hurting our people, he should stand up. He should show there is no quid pro quo, and he's going to call them like he sees them.

[13:15:10]

That's something he can do literally in the coming days and weeks and make very clear that this allegation just isn't real.

KEILAR: Yes, we will see if he does that.

Former...

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Sorry. Real quick, Michael.

MOORE: Well, it's not necessarily what Mr. Adams does. It's the department's effort to wield that hammer of justice over a defendant's head and to threaten them with criminal prosecution if they don't agree with them.

And so it's not this case, just this case we're worried about. It's the little guy. It's the other defendants. It's other people out there who may not be elected mayor to this large city, but who are out there in the community who may very well get this same treatment.

And that's why this is a terrible precedent to go forward.

KEILAR: It's a really interesting point.

Michael, thank you so much. Former Mayor Bill de Blasio, we appreciate your time as well. Thank you.

And Vice President Vance meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy after a series of mixed messages from the Trump administration about how it's planning to approach Russia's war on Ukraine. We will have more on that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:57] SANCHEZ: Happening right now, Vice President J.D. Vance is meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at a high-level security conference in Munich, Germany.

And this critical face-to-face showdown comes as the Trump administration pushes for a negotiated end of a three-year war between Russia and Ukraine. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Fundamentally, the goal is, as President Trump outlined it, we want the war to come to a close. We want the killing to stop, but we want to achieve a durable, lasting peace, not the kind of peace that's going to have Eastern Europe in conflict just a couple years down the road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Now, earlier today, during a speech at the conference, Vance blasted America's European allies on immigration and free speech. And he compared current European leaders with autocrats who oversaw repressive regimes across the continent during the Cold War.

KEILAR: Those stern words coming one day after Vance told "The Wall Street Journal" that the U.S. could hit the Kremlin with economic and military tools of leverage if Putin doesn't negotiate a peace deal in good faith.

Overnight, Ukraine accusing Russia of launching a drone attack at Chernobyl's nuclear site. Zelenskyy says, despite significant damage to the shelter, radiation levels have not increased.

We're joined now by retired major General James "Spider" Marks. He's a CNN military analyst. We're also joined by Jill Dougherty, a former CNN Moscow bureau chief.

Jill, your takeaways from the Vance-Zelenskyy meeting?

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, what he said at the meeting, I think, was predictable, especially talking about long term. That's good.

But I think the speech before by the vice president was troubling, because he talked not at all about what you do to resolve this war. It was really an attack on Europe for its moral values. And I found it quite surprising, because I'm not quite sure exactly what it had to do with the subject du jour, which is ending this war.

Maybe it scores some points back home. But it was really notable that he was attacking the Europeans and nothing about Russia, nothing about Russia's repression of open discussion and freedom of expression, et cetera.

SANCHEZ: General, something Zelenskyy said, I thought was interesting. He said that Ukraine's army would have to double in size if the country isn't on the path to joining NATO. He argues that membership in the alliance is the best security guarantee for Ukraine.

What does that tell you about Ukraine's current capacity and what do you think about his assertion that, without NATO, Ukraine would have to do something that doesn't seem likely?

BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Certainly, Ukraine has to increase the size of its military. It has learned immense lessons over the course of these last three years in terms of how to fight, how to be creative.

I mean, they just set some incredible standards. So, obviously, that needs to increase in terms of capacity across the board, not just in terms of some very niche capabilities, like increase the number of drones, let's get more active in terms of cyber.

But having the capacity to conduct operational warfare, which really is going to dislodge the Russian forces, that's going to take place whether he's a member of NATO or not. But moving forward, if it's not membership in NATO, that remains to be seen, at least there needs to be some form of security guarantees, albeit they were in place before.

That didn't work out very well, until the United States and NATO came to Ukraine's assistance. But it needs to be codified very clearly. And then there needs to be very specific steps to increase military capacity of the Ukrainian military across the board.

KEILAR: And, General, the warning from Zelenskyy is that Russia is preparing to attack a NATO country next year and is going to renew its offensive on Ukraine if they don't receive sufficient security guarantees.

[13:25:01]

What do you think of that? Do you believe that to be true?

MARKS: Absolutely not.

Russia has zero capacity to conduct a two-front war. They have been bogged down in Ukraine and have demonstrated a complete lack of capacity to accelerate operations, to achieve the objectives that they stated. So they're locked in what is very much an attrition warfare right now. They do not have the manpower, the capacity, or the leadership to conduct another operation and have two fronts simultaneously.

It's not going to happen. Now, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't try to do something very, very provocative and try to hold what they have, but they would have to shift considerable manpower and resources in order to achieve that. Those indicators would be able to be read. That could be interrupted by the application of force, if NATO and the United States want to do it.

SANCHEZ: Jill, to go back to your thoughts about J.D. Vance's speech earlier in the day before his meeting with Zelenskyy, when he compared these European leaders to Cold War tyrants, at the same time, the U.S. is trying to urge Europe to do more to ensure Ukraine's security. Do you think his comments help advance that goal?

DOUGHERTY: No, I don't, actually.

I think the Europeans were quite surprised by it and somewhat worried about it. If they put it in the American context, maybe they can understand. This is -- this debate, traditional values, et cetera, it's a big issue in the United States.

So, if they can understand, the Europeans can understand that's what's going on, it's important there, and that's not to say that it's not an issue in Europe either. But I don't think, in terms of Ukraine and a war, that it's really salient.

I can tell you, however, there -- definitely, Vladimir Putin is right on board with a lot of this. In fact, it's almost verbatim what Putin says: Europe has lost its values. How dare they talk about freedom of expression, et cetera?

But, I mean, all you have to do is look at Russia foreign agents laws, arresting journalists, sentencing them to prison, et cetera. So this debate, I'm not quite sure why it came up, other than, again, to score domestic points back here in the United States.

SANCHEZ: Jill Dougherty, General James "Spider" Marks, thank you both. Appreciate the perspective.

MARKS: You're welcome.

SANCHEZ: Week after the tragic midair collision between an American Airlines flight and an army Black Hawk helicopter, investigators are about to give us an update.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just moments.

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