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Court Fight Over DOGE; NTSB Gives Update on Deadly Midair Collision; Court Weighs Whether Musk's DOGE Team Can Access Treasury System. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired February 14, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: It's a DOGE fight. New legal challenges against Elon Musk's task force. This time testing whether the billionaire team has the right to access sensitive information at the Treasury Department.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And more than 55 years after the Stonewall Inn became a symbol for the LGBTQ+ movement, its meaning and importance is being rewritten on the national monuments website, an alarming development for advocates.
And today marks seven years since the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. Now, the parents of one of the students killed that day are turning their grief into art with a bigger purpose. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central.
Hi there. I'm Brianna Keilar along with Boris Sanchez here in Washington. And at any moment, we are expecting to get some new details about the deadliest U.S. aviation disaster in more than 20 years. The NTSB is set to give an update in the investigation of that midair collision that happened near Reagan National Airport just outside of Washington, D.C. late last month.
SANCHEZ: You may recall an army helicopter on a training mission collided with an American Airlines plane, killing all 67 people on the two aircraft. Officials previously revealed that radar data suggests the Army Black Hawk was flying at a higher altitude than it was supposed to be. We're going to monitor this briefing and we'll bring you the latest details as we get them.
Meantime, this hour, we're watching a potentially pivotal hearing that could determine whether Elon Musk's DOGE team can access a critical Treasury Department payment system. That system contains the confidential and personal financial information of millions of Americans. It cuts checks for things like tax refunds, Social Security benefits, and disability payments.
Keep in mind, last week a judge blocked Musk's DOGE staffers from accessing it after they swept through federal agencies as part of the Trump administration's massive government overhaul. CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid joins us now live with more. Paula, what are you expecting as this hearing gets underway?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Boris, this is a big deal for many Americans because, as you just noted, I mean, this system deals with everything from tax returns to federal employee salaries. The judge had previously restricted Musk's team from accessing this system, citing irreparable harm in order that any information that had been downloaded off the system should be destroyed.
Now, Musk's team has defended their access. Musk has said that DOGE and the treasury jointly agreed that they would add certain labels and codes to different payments inside the system so that the entire system could pass an audit. But this lawsuit alleges that Musk's team is staffed with very young people who have access to the sensitive data, and that this system was supposed to be restricted to specific government employees, and that this entire situation presents a serious security risk.
Now, this lawsuit was brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James, as well as over a dozen other attorneys general. Of course, earlier this week, the Trump Justice Department sued James over immigration enforcement, and she, of course, also oversaw a civil case against Trump a few years ago. So they have been in court across the table from one another for quite some time.
But this is significant because it could have ramifications for the Trump administration and DOGE and their efforts to upend the federal workforce. So this hearing is supposed to get underway any minute, and we'll bring you updates.
SANCHEZ: Paula Reid, keep us posted. Thank you so much. Brianna?
KEILAR: Today, the Trump administration is expanding its sweeping efforts to drastically downsize the federal government as federal agencies move forward, firing thousands of probationary employees. Probationary employees have typically been on the job for less than a year.
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And the Trump administration is targeting those workers because they have fewer job protections. According to recent data, more than 200,000 employees have worked within the federal government for less than that crucial year.
Randy Erwin is the President of the National Federation of Federal Employees. He's with us now to talk about this. And your union is part of this lawsuit that was filed last night challenging the firing of these probationary employees. Tell us who you know that's been fired and what they're telling you.
RANDY ERWIN, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEES: We don't have that information yet. But, you know, we do know what the President's done. And he's, you know, had this, signed this executive order and is, you know, had this deferred resignation program that is now kind of all done. But, you know, they've indicated that they want to get rid of 75% of the federal workforce, and how they're doing it is illegal, and that's why we filed this lawsuit.
KEILAR: So I know you had -- you told the Wall Street Journal about, I think, 3,400 Forest Service employees, 2,000 Energy Department staffers laid off. Can you tell us anything about that?
ERWIN: Yeah. You know, our country is less safe and less efficient because of the actions taken by this administration. You know, our Forest Service does a tremendous job. You saw the fires that happened out west in California. They do a tremendous job caring for our lands and protecting communities. And when you lay off 3,400 folks, even if it's not the people who are actually putting out those fires, all of the support that goes into those efforts, those jobs are every bit as essential.
And we're, you know, we're in a more dangerous place today because of those actions. We need those workers we don't have in the federal government -- the federal government hasn't grown at all in the last 50 years. It has been squeezed and squeezed. If anything, we don't have enough federal employees. We're understaffed. And so we're getting into a dangerous area when we see hundreds, tens, if not hundreds of thousands of federal workers laid off for no good reason.
KEILAR: Yeah. According to our Rene Marsh's reporting, it does appear that some of the folks you mentioned, firefighters, maybe not the first line firefighters, but some folks who could potentially be called into reserve should efforts require it. They may have been laid off here. Why are these folks being targeted, in your opinion? And what kind of protections do they have, if any?
ERWIN: Sure. Well, they have to -- there's a rift procedure that is spelled out in law. And the President, you know, under Article 2 of the Constitution, he has to faithfully execute the laws of this country. And there is a reduction in force procedure to spelled out in the law. And he is ignoring that completely.
There is no way, based on the wording of his executive order, that agencies could both follow the executive order and comply with that law. And so, you know, he is not faithfully executing the laws of this country. That's unconstitutional. And people should be really mad about that and, you know, ultimately getting in the streets because we got to abide by the Constitution in this country.
KEILAR: All right. Randy Erwin, thank you so much with the National Federation of Federal Employees. We do appreciate you being with us today.
And still to come this hour. Vice President J.D. Vance lashing out at European allies in Munich, accusing them of attacking free speech, saying the biggest challenge to security isn't from Russia or China, but quote, the threat from within.
Plus, the words transgender and queer erased from the Stonewall National Monument website. What's behind the change?
And later today marks seven years since a gunman killed 17 people in the shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. How one father is remembering his son and working through art for change.
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KEILAR: Vice President J.D. Vance meeting today face to face with Ukrainian President Zelensky at a high level security conference in Munich, Germany. It's a critical sit down that comes as the Trump administration is pushing for a negotiated end to Russia's three year war in Ukraine.
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J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Fundamentally, the goal is, as President Trump outlined it, we want the war to come to a close. We want the killing to stop, but we want to achieve a durable, lasting peace, not the kind of peace that's going to have Eastern Europe in conflict just a couple of years down the roads.
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KEILAR: In a speech earlier today, Vance blasted America's European allies in a long diatribe, the Vice President criticizing European countries for their immigration policies, accusing them of not listening to their voters, to suppressing voices that they disagree with. He even compared them, some of them, to Cold War Tyrants. CNN's Alex Marquardt is covering these developments for us in Munich. How to win friends and influence people, Alex, how is it playing?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, this was a real dressing down, a real scolding by the Vice President towards some of the U.S.'s closest allies, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden and others. There was some expectation that he would talk about European politics in this speech. But given where we are at the security conference, you would have thought he might have talked about national security, about adversaries Russia and China, about the war in Ukraine.
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But he barely touched on any of those subjects.
Instead, he criticized Europeans for cracking down on free speech on social media, freedom of worship. And he said that the biggest threat to Europe is not external, it's actually internal. It's migration. He pointed to an attack that took place right here in Munich yesterday, carried out by an Afghan migrant. Here's a little bit of what he had to say.
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VANCE: The threat that I worry the most about vis a vis Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor. And what I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values, values shared with the United States of America. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUARDT: So, Brianna, this broadside against European democracies did not go down very well. I spoke with one European official who said that to him it felt like intervention. The German Defense Minister said that it was unacceptable. I think it's fair to say that this will go down as one of the most memorable, if not the most memorable speech by an American President or Vice President at the security conference in Munich. Brianna?
KEILAR: And Alex, some lawmakers are criticizing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth for a speech that he made in Europe, seemingly closing the door on the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO with one senator calling it a rookie mistake. Tell us more about the reaction there.
MARQUARDT: Well, Pete Hegseth put down several what he would consider realities about what's going to happen in Ukraine just a couple of days ago that has gotten a lot of criticism from Democrats, from even Senator Roger Wicker, the Republican from Mississippi, from lots of Europeans here. Essentially those in some corners accusing Hegseth of what he's saying, of concessions to the Russians before the negotiations even began, saying that Ukraine is not going to be part of NATO, that U.S. troops won't go to Ukraine as a peacekeeping force, saying that the guarantees for Ukraine's safety will fall on the Europeans and not the Americans.
So a lot of people saying, why give that up before these negotiations have actually even begun? Vice President J.D. Vance tried to soften that a little bit, saying there are economic and military tools that can be used against Russia to bring them to the table.
His main message here, Brianna, at this meeting with President Zelensky is essentially all options are still on the table. He said he wants to keep the optionality for President Trump to make these decisions. But President Trump himself is also saying that Ukraine will not be a member of NATO. And he's also saying that Russia should be welcomed back into the G8.
So for his part, President Zelensky saying he still welcomes and needs the support of the United States, but what he really needs are guarantees, military and security guarantees from the U.S. and others. So that is going to be the biggest part of this conversation going forward. Trump's Russia-Ukraine envoy Keith Kellogg is heading to Ukraine next week for more discussions. Brianna?
KEILAR: All right. Alex Marquardt live for us in Germany, thank you for the report. Boris?
SANCHEZ: Let's dig deeper on these developments with Steven Pifer. He is the Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. He's also with the center for International Security and Cooperation at Stanford University. Ambassador, thanks so much for being with us. What do you make of Hegseth softening some of his comments, as President Trump put it? Do you agree with Senator Wicker that they were a mistake?
STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I think the last three days have probably flabbergasted both our European allies and our Ukrainian partners. The Secretary of Defense on Wednesday said Ukraine cannot be in NATO. That's a reversal of NATO policy and American policy.
And he did that without talking to India -- the European allies first. And then that was walked back, or maybe not walked back. He also then made the point about Ukraine having to lose territory. So right off the bat, he's given concessions to two major Russian positions.
President Trump then speaks with President Putin before he talks to President Zelensky and then says he plans to meet several times with President Putin. That goes against a de facto policy of the last three years among major Western leaders that you do not meet with Putin. And then the Vice President today at a speech where I think everybody's looking for him to kind of clarify things, he ignores the elephant in the room. He doesn't talk about the Russian-Ukraine war and instead talks about democratic values, which did not get a very good reception.
SANCHEZ: How did you read those comments from J.D. Vance, Ambassador? Because he is comparing some European leaders to these Cold War autocrats while at the same time demanding that Europeans step up their efforts to ensure Ukrainian security.
PIFER: Yeah, I think it plays badly because of course, the Vice President himself will not say that Joe Biden won the 2020 presidential election.
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And so I think that doesn't make him the strongest person (inaudible) democracy. But this is also, I think, another point where I hope that the Vice President is correcting it now in Munich. But it doesn't look like President Trump talked to any senior Europeans before he announced his conversation with Putin.
And again, the Trump administration wants the Europeans to do a lot. It wants the Europeans, for example, to provide either a peacekeeping force or a security force for Ukraine. So you've got to be talking to the Europeans now and include them at the beginning if we're going to want the Europeans to play the kind of role that the Trump administration envisages.
SANCHEZ: On that question of the security force that would oversee Ukraine's borders, I wonder what you make of Ukrainian's President warning that Russia is preparing to attack a NATO country next year, saying that Russia will renew its offensive on Ukraine if the country doesn't receive sufficient security guarantees. I wonder if you believe him, if you have any reason to doubt him.
PIFER: Well, Boris, I'm not sure Russia is going to attack a NATO country next year. But here's the worry, if Russia wins the war against Ukraine, either on the battlefield or because of a poorly brokered negotiating settlement, Russia is going to pose a much greater threat to Europe. And Vladimir Putin will be emboldened. And after he has a couple of years to rebuild and regenerate his military, would he attack a NATO country? Most experts now would say no. That would be crazy. But in 2018 or 2019, if you'd asked most experts would Putin had launched the kind of assault on Ukraine that he launched in 2022, they would have said no. That would be crazy.
We underestimate Vladimir Putin's ambitions at our peril. And we also need to bear in mind Putin is capable of enormous miscalculations such as the one that he went made three years ago when he sent his army into Ukraine expecting to win in a matter of weeks.
SANCHEZ: Yeah. Ambassador Steven Pifer, appreciate you sharing your point of view. Thanks for joining us.
PIFER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Coming up. This is a move that's raising eyebrows. The words transgender and queer have been removed from the Stonewall National Monument website. We'll discuss why the National Park Service made these changes.
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MAN #1: Will not erase us. They will not erase us.
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KEILAR: Demonstrators. Demonstrators sounding off at the Stonewall National Monument in New York today after references to gender and queer people were scrubbed from the National Park Service website. The Park Service has also shortened the phrase LGBTQ+ to simply LGB on the Stonewall webpage.
SANCHEZ: The Stonewall Monument honors the start of the modern LGBTQ+ rights movement, which began after police raided the Stonewall Inn, a Greenwich Village gay bar, back in 1969. The raid sparked days of protests cementing Stonewall as a symbol of resistance for those who within the gay, lesbian and transgender community.
Stacy Lentz is the co-owner of the Stonewall Inn and the CEO of the Stonewall Inn gives back initiative and she joins us now live. Stacy, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. I wonder what you make of the removal of transgender and queer from this website. What's the significance?
STACY LENTZ, CO-OWNER, STONEWALL INN: Yeah, I mean, I would like to say I'm really, really shocked, but I'm not. We've seen this current administration not only just campaign on attacking trans and non- binary folks, but then also in addition to really going after them and trying to erase them from public life.
But it was still very painful at the birthplace of the LGBTQ rights movement to see them try to erase trans folks from queer history. We would not be sitting where we are today at the Stonewall Inn if it wasn't for Trans People in 1969 who stood up with the rest of the community. So it's outlandish that they think they can erase an entire part of our community from LGBTQ history, which is American history.
KEILAR: You say you're going to fight this. How do you plan to fight this?
LENTZ: Yeah. So right now, we've organized a massive protest today in addition to we will continue to protest, speak up and speak out, and really call on Democratic leaders to really not be silent on this issue. We really want to see our Democratic leaders step up and fight for us.
We cannot allow an entire group of our population to be completely erased, not just from public life, but from history. But they're really going after them on all levels. So we've got to make sure that everybody, including allies, everybody fighting for trans and non- binary folks right now.
SANCHEZ: When you talk about these folks being targeted at all levels, are there any other programs or monuments that you think could be affected?
LENTZ: Yeah, well, we're seeing them honestly being, you know, erased from every kind of government program, right? I mean, we've seen that with birth certificates not having gender --
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