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Delta Plane Flips Upside Down at Toronto's Pearson Airport. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 17, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: ... So for that to have been a factor in what happened, we have with a CNN aviation analyst, Peter Goetz. He's a former official with the NTSB. Peter, just right off the bat, what do you make out from what you're seeing that you think is of significance? Does anything stand out to you?

PETER GOETZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, there's two things that I'd like to point out. One is that this investigation, as Mary pointed out, is going to be investigated by the NTSB. But the Canadian Safety Board, which is highly regarded, will be in the lead. And they'll investigate this under a long established treaty.

But I think the key thing to look at, if it is true that all of the passengers have been accounted for and that there are no fatalities, this is tribute to something called 16G seats. Some 20 years ago, the Safety Board made a recommendation that all commercial air carriers have seats that can resist precisely this kind of accident, that they stay in place, that people are not ejected, that the seats are not ejected.

And time and time again, these 16G seats have saved lives. And I think we'll see again, as the analysis unfolds on this accident, that the 16G seats have saved lives once again.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Because what used to happen, Peter, they would just come loose from their fastening inside the fuselage?

GOETZ: On a hard landing, the seats would come loose, people would be ejected, the seats would be ejected. There were inevitably fatalities. It was a very tough situation.

But the carriers over the past decade or more have replaced all of the seats with 16G seats. So if you're buckled in and you have a hard landing, you are likely to make it through to evacuate the aircraft.

KEILAR: And is that just a matter of, is that the frame of the seat? Is that the bolts that they're using? What is it that makes that in compliance?

GOETZ: It's the way the seat is attached to the frame of the aircraft. So it's designed to withstand a very heavy impact. And this is a testament to government regulation and to government investigations. SANCHEZ: David Soucie, if you're still with us, I wonder, as you hear Peter sort of walk us through how these regulations on seats may have played a role here. There's obviously a lot that goes into the kind of response that we're seeing when this happens. And then a short while later, you get confirmation from the airport that all passengers and crew have been accounted for.

Talk to us about what procedures are in place at an airport when something like this happens to try to minimize the harm.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, you can see right away, you can see that foam that's all over the aircraft. They were out there fast. They got out there quick.

You can see, as Pete mentioned, that there are some signs of a fire there on top of that engine. So in order to extinguish that fire that quickly, they had to be on site and ready and prepared immediately. So those procedures that are in place for an aircraft that's needing assistance is there for them to get out there immediately.

And they spray the foam. And that foam was fire-retardant foam. It contains anything from catching fire. It prevents oxygen from getting to the fire. So even in extremely hot situations, that foam will extinguish the fire perfectly. So that's step one.

Step two is the evacuation of the people. And you can see, there's not a lot of evidence of people. There's nothing popped open. The doors aren't open. It looks like they evacuated everybody from what would be the left side of the aircraft, because what we're looking at right now is the right side, because there's no doors or anything open on that side. So the procedure of which side is the safest to get out of.

So the first thing that has to be determined by the crew is, is there a fire on the other side of that door before I open it up? So these are all procedures that are in place via regulations from the FAA and recommendations from the NTSB over the years to make sure that they're going out the right door, that they've been evacuating. You can see all those things came into play.

If you don't mind, I would like to mention what Peter said. Often the FAA and the NTSB are at odds with each other because the NTSB is looking at these proximate causes, and then they make recommendations. Often the FAA says, yes, that's a great recommendation, but we don't put it into play because the FAA has to weigh a couple of other things as well, or because they just can't get it done quickly enough.

So the NTSB gets very frustrated with the FAA, because the FAA is that regulatory body.

[15:35:00]

In this case, the 16G seats is something that was approved thanks to the insistence of the NTSB, and the FAA approved it, and the fact that it was there did save lives, and it's testament again to the regulators working together with the NTSB to make sure that there is a regulation that enforces that safety improvement. SANCHEZ: It's fascinating to see how that recommendation has an immediate impact in the scene that we're seeing.

And if you're just joining us, emergency teams right now are responding to a Delta plane flying from the United States from Minneapolis into Toronto Pearson Airport, a Delta flight that apparently flipped upside down. You are seeing the debris right now. Toronto Pearson Airport put out a statement saying that all passengers and crew have been accounted for, really a remarkable sign when you consider the situation.

Also, as we've been taking a look, a closer look now at the fuselage, there are marks on the plane that indicate flames. At one point, clearly there was fire on the body of this aircraft, and really stunning Pete -- Pete Muntean is here with us on set -- to see a scene like this and consider all the things that could have gone wrong, and you hear that all passengers and crew are accounted for. It speaks to a level of preparedness.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It's a packed airplane, presumably 70 to 76 people in the configuration that Delta uses these airplanes. Endeavour Air is the airline that is operating this.

KEILAR: I do want to jump in because we just got some new video in of the moments right after the crash. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in Toronto. We just landed. Our plane crashed. It's upside down. Fire department's outside. Upside down. Everybody -- most people appear to be OK. We're all getting off. Some smoke going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Pete, unbelievable look. Can we put that back? Can we run that again while we talk over it? Unbelievable look.

MUNTEAN: And incredible work by the crash fire rescues there at Toronto Pearson International Airport, getting water and foam on this airplane that was very clearly on fire. What you're looking at now is the right side of the fuselage. The airplane is inverted. It was upside down.

You can see the nose landing gear there on the left. The fire crews did an incredible job of getting this put out quickly. And you can see the emergency exits, not only the door one on the right side of the airplane, but also the mid cabin emergency exit open and folks coming out of it.

This is the key. If you are watching this and you are a regular traveler, always leave your stuff behind. That slows down the evacuation when lives are on the line.

And this is exactly why flight attendants say with such authority to leave things behind in the case of an emergency like this. A fire can spread so quickly. I know this firsthand from the crash of my mother that killed her. It can be extremely dangerous. It is one of the top risks. It's a 10 on the scale of severity on an airplane crash, in some cases an 11.

And so, for a case to be -- for us to be saying that this is an outcome with all souls accounted for on board this plane is really incredible. Now the big question is how this airplane got in this position at Toronto Pearson International Airport. And looking at the flight tracking data, there's nothing -- no real telltales in the final approach that this plane was having any sort of trouble.

That the approach was what pilots would call unstable, meaning they weren't on the glide path or speed or on altitude. The approach itself looked pretty good. When I teach people to fly, I say bad landings start with bad approaches. This was not that case. The approach looked OK.

So how this airplane ended up in the inverted position, wings and tail sheared off is going to be a big question for investigators.

So without speculating, we can say with authority and fact here that the wind at Toronto Pearson is something else today. It's gusting to about 35 knots right now. This landing was to the southwest there at Toronto Pearson International Airport.

The wind pretty stiff out of the west. In some of the images, you can see the windsock there essentially straight out, showing us just sort of the strength of the wind. Still a lot of fire crews there on the scene. And you can see the foam truck there on the left of the crash fire rescue crews that are based at the airport, which swooped in so quickly to try and put out that fire.

Of course they're staying there to make sure there are no hot spots, to make sure that this does not flare up. But at this point, all they're doing is essentially making sure that the wreckage remains in one place and that nothing sort of lights off again.

But you can even see fire there in the tail, too. That's the right side of the fuselage. That's the right engine, tail mounted engines on a CRJ 900. And you can see some singeing there as well. Also from the wings where the fuel is stored. So really a pretty incredible job here by all.

[15:40:00]

And you will hear, of course, as this story develops, the work of the flight crew, not only the pilots, but also the cabin crew. They are aviation's first responders, and they make it so that things like this are a happy ending.

And the passengers, of course, following the rules, is very critical here to us being able to say, according to the airport, that all people, all on board this flight Delta 4819 operated by Endeavor are OK.

SANCHEZ: Mary, I wanted to go to something Pete pointed out. Some of the conditions at the airport, very difficult. That windsock we saw a moment ago, almost completely lateral.

And when we got the much closer view of the wreckage of this plane, you could see that the runway itself appeared quite icy. You see it there. How difficult is it to land a plane like this in these conditions?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, you know, Pete picked up something very important. Pete's right on. So that windsock is straight up.

This is a CRJ. CRJ does have crosswind landing limits. Now, they should have been landing right down with the wind when the wind is that stiff.

But if the wind changed at the last minute, this plane has a limit. I mean, and I'm doing off top my head, so it's not going to be exact. But I think the crosswind limits on this aircraft are probably 20 knots, maybe even less.

I was on one of these planes just a couple days ago, and we had to get out of the takeoff lineup to get out because the crosswinds exceeded our crosswind limits. And so that could very much have something to do with it. It does look to me like it has left the runway.

And that, again, is also another, you know, another clue here. If you have a tremendous crosswind and you do have a problem with the landing gear, we see that it's gone. If it did leave the runway in a windy condition, any kind of inclined banking, like I said, they hit a seawall in California about 20 years ago, 15 years ago, and that caused the plane to go inverted.

Any kind of tipping of that wing, any kind of hitting of an object or losing one side of the gear, you can go inverted if you've especially if you've got a wind. So Pete picked up on that windsock. That's a good clue. I suspect that'll have a lot to do with it.

KEILAR: And David Soucie, when they say accounted for, that everyone on board is accounted for, does that mean that everyone is definitely alive?

SOUCIE: Yes, if they haven't reported any souls, any fatalities, then they're saying that we've accounted for them, we have them, they're off the aircraft. So that's a really good sign. And again, it's testament to the fact that the engineering that goes behind these airplanes, you notice that both of the wings are off of the airplane right now.

And that's by design. They have breakaway explosive bolts that hold those wings on so that if the aircraft does go sideways, and it does hit the wing, if that wing was too stiff, it would tear the fuselage apart and dislodge the seats and damage the fuselage. But it's designed to allow that when it's a huge impact on the wing to strip those wings off. And then that aircraft can continue to move and come to rest safely.

So there's so many examples now that we know we don't have fatalities. We have this opportunity now to show exactly all of the things that have happened in the past that we've learned from as Peter Goetz brought up the 16G seats, and then also these breakaway bolts on the wings.

There are so many things in this particular accident that came together perfectly to make this a safe, safe situation.

KEILAR: And we want to play some video again. This is again, you're looking at Delta flight 4819 from Minneapolis to Toronto that is there on the runway in Toronto without its wings, without its tail upside down. And this is what was captured by one of the passengers upon exiting the plane shortly after this crash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in Toronto. We just landed. Our plane crashed. It's upside down. Fire department's outside. Upside down. Everybody -- most people appear to be OK. We're all getting off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Just stunning video from the runway at Toronto Pearson. And we've just been handed an update. This is from the Association of Flight Attendants, CWA.

They confirmed that AFA crew were working this flight and they confirm reports are there are no fatalities. Again, Pete, really a stunning development given the circumstances there. I wanted to ask you to lay out what exactly a crosswind is.

For those of us that aren't familiar with aviation, because obviously it sounds like a complicated landing. When you have wind like that. When you have a runway that appears to be icy. And in layman's terms, what is it like when you're trying to land a plane in those conditions?

MUNTEAN: I don't fly large transport category airplanes like this.

[15:45:00]

I can tell you more about my experience from a pilot of a small airplane. But a crosswind landing is one of the biggest challenges that pilots face regularly.

Airline pilots, it doesn't faze them so so much because they're in crosswinds and have to land and take off and that all the time.

That essentially means instead of the wind coming at your face, which is the most advantageous setting for wind in an airplane, it helps the wings lift faster and you get off the ground quicker, land shorter. A crosswind causes the airplane to sort of slide laterally across the runway. So you want to be tracking straight down the runway as you're coming into land on approach.

And then, of course, as you touch down, airline pilots do something usually called the crab and kick method, where they will essentially turn the nose of the airplane into the wind, cut the effect of the wind, track straight across the ground as they're approaching the runway, and then at the last second, kick in the rudder on the tail and then track straight to try and not side load and put a ton of stress on the landing gear.

So a crosswind can be especially difficult. Airline pilots are especially used to it. They have to do this all the time. So it's not the biggest challenge that they face, but it's a factor. Thankfully here, the weather was relatively good aside from the wind. The conditions are mostly clear. There's a bit of blowing snow. This is in daylight. So the risk factors there aren't terribly high.

They were landing mostly into the wind. So this landing appears at least according to the flight tracking data that they were landing on runway 23 at the time of the crash. That's to the southwest at Toronto Pearson International.

The wind, according to the automated data, was from 270, so essentially a 40 degree angle. That's about when you get really all of the effect of the wind coming from your side. So it's challenging for sure, although not a game ender.

So really questionable here about what happened. Even up and down the east coast today, there have been reports of wind shear by pilots, meaning moving currents of wind that's there and then not there, causes a lot of turbulence.

I spoke to a friend earlier today who was on a flight into National Airport. They had to abort the landing because of the heavy wind there. It's gusting to about 50 knots here in Washington, D.C. So wind, of course, will be a factor. It's so soon to speculate.

And the big question now will be what went into this. And so now investigators will be pulling things, and thankfully the wreckage is primarily intact, pulling things like the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder to see what went on here. But at least according to the publicly available flight tracking data from sites like Flight Radar and ADS-B Exchange, it looks like a pretty normal approach and pretty stable.

These pilots were relatively locked in. So something clearly went wrong in the last maybe few dozen feet. And so now that's the question that we will need to answer.

Of course, more and more will come out here, and no doubt investigators at the Canadian Transport Safety Board will want to see things like closed-circuit TV cameras and security cameras on the airport. There are so many cameras in our lives now in 2025. They will no doubt be able to sort of piece this together relatively quickly.

And of course, we're already seeing the images pop of the incredible response there on Runway 23 at Toronto Pearson of the crash-fire rescue crews, which were based on the airport. They are in many cases required to be there for commercial service to be at an airport with such rapidity. Toronto is one of the busiest airports in Canada. And you can see the evacuation taking place here. This is harrowing stuff. And you can see passengers leaving the overwing exit on that right side of Delta 4819, and then also the R1 exit, the very front just behind the cabin or just behind the cockpit where you would usually board.

So this is a pretty incredible story that we were able to tell on the heels of such tragedy over the Potomac River, where 67 people died in the midair collision here. This is almost antithetical to that. This is a terribly happy ending.

KEILAR: It is. And all runways closed right now at Toronto's Pearson Airport, which is the busiest airport in Canada. These are terrifying pictures that we are looking at, but with, as we said, a positive outcome.

This is a CRJ 900 upside down, wings shorn off, missing its tail. There's a fire, but emergency crews have managed to contain it. And everyone, according to the airport, is accounted for.

Mary, I wonder what you're expecting. We did see a lot of people, even bounding off of that plane. So a lot of folks there in very good condition as they were running off the plane.

But I mean, are you going to be expecting that? What kind of bumps and bruises are you expecting here? And talk to us about that.

We know the chairs obviously would have been crucial.

[15:50:00]

You guys have talked about that. And the seat belts as well. This is why it's important to stay buckled.

SCHIAVO: Right. And not just buckled. You know, before, especially with this kind of wind, I would assume the pilot came on and said, give those belts an extra tug.

You know, pilots always warn their passengers if it's going to be particularly turbulent. I was flying yesterday and it was very turbulent. Flew in down south from up north.

And so if the pilot gave a warning and said, give it an extra tug because, you know, you can have your seat belt buckled. But if you flip upside down as this one did, many people, especially smaller people, fall from the seat belts. And then you have a problem with head injuries.

And that was a problem that we saw with the Asiana crash in California. We saw that with, you know, several other crashes where they were buckled, but not really tightly. And so the cockpit voice recording will have this and the pilot will be interviewed by the Canada Safety Board as to what they told them. And so if they were buckled down really good and this plane, now that Pete mentioned that he checked and the winds were up to 45, 45 knot, that exceeds a crosswind landing on this aircraft. So if this aircraft was going in and at the last second got a crosswind like that, that would have been very difficult for this aircraft.

And then, you know, the other thing we noticed in these live pictures that there aren't a lot of ambulances. And that's, you know, that's a really good sign because Toronto Pearson, their crash phones, you know, they're right in the tower, they're red, just like in the U.S. And when Air France -- there was an Air France plane that crashed at Toronto Pearson, bad weather went off the end, completely burned. And they had so much equipment there. It came from the highways, it came from the airport, it came every which way.

And they saved every single person on that plane. And if you can imagine a jumbo jet burning entirely, there was nothing left. And everyone's life was saved. And that was right at this airport.

So they're very experienced and very used to it. And so the lack of a sea of ambulances is a really good sign.

So perhaps the pilot did have them give extra tugs on those seatbelts because head injuries -- and there's also sidewall injuries. People who are seated next to the wall of the aircraft often get side injuries and they get arm rest injuries. So this looks like a good sign.

SANCHEZ: And Mary, as you were speaking, we got an update. This is from Canadian media. Up to eight people were injured during this landing incident in which this flight was overturned.

The extent of their injuries currently unknown. It appears that everyone, all the passengers and crew are alive, but we're learning that up to eight have been injured. And again, the extent of their injuries is unknown. All 80 people we understand on board the flight were evacuated.

We want to go to Pete Muntean, who's actually at the magic wall right now. You have something to show us, Pete.

MUNTEAN: I just want to break down some of these images here for you because we're getting these in moment by moment. This is apparently an image right after the crash. You can see the fuselage here.

This is the tail of the airplane. This is the nose of the airplane. This is the nose landing gear. You can see some of the fire trucks here. Obviously, a lot of people streaming out here. This seemed to be in the moments right after the crash. Folks were still out on the runway.

I'm going to point out a couple things here to you that are telltales to pilots you may not know about. We've been talking a lot about the wind.

Of course, it's way too soon to say the cause of this crash, although we know the conditions at Toronto Pearson. You can see the blowing snow and the winds were pretty high, gusting to about 30 to 40 knots at the last hour. This is the windsock here.

You see this at airports all the time. In Canada, they're alternating orange and white like this. In the U.S., they're flat emergency orange. And the windsock is pretty much straight out. It shows that the wind is moving at a pretty good pace. Usually, when the sock is straight out, it's about 15 knots of wind. This obviously is more. So we know from the publicly available weather data at Toronto Pearson that the wind was pretty challenging.

The runway that they were trying to land on here was runway 23. So that's mostly into the wind, although according to the publicly available weather reports there at Toronto Pearson, the wind was at about a 40-degree crosswind angle or crosswind component to the runway, which makes things a little bit more difficult, although not out of the realm of capability of two professional pilots in the cockpit of a U.S. airliner, Delta 4819, operated by Endeavour Air, one of their regional partners, that if I take it on Delta, they will fly some of the smaller, shorter routes. This flight was coming from Minneapolis.

I'm going to show you some of the video now, and I'll try and pause it here at some pretty critical points. You can see folks streaming out here. I'm just going to pause it really quick. This is the -- I'm getting used to this, bear with me.

So this is the mid-cabin exit.

[15:55:00]

This is where the wing was. It would have been out like this. This is one of the overwing exits. You can see it opened. I think it opens to the inside in an RJ. I'm not totally sure. Someone on Twitter will, I'm sure, correct me. And you can see the folks coming out here from the mid-cabin exit over the wing.

This is now on the right side of the airplane, and the fire crews are still here spraying foam onto the airplane, folks getting out quickly and safely, being helped by some of the firefighters here, presumably the Crest Fire Rescue crews there at Toronto Pearson International Airport. Good job to them.

I'm going to restart it really quick here so we can talk about some of what was going on in the front. I have to walk over to the other side. Excuse me. I know you can't see it very well. You can see some of the foam coming down here. Let's see if we can pause it here. OK.

So this is the R1 door in a commercial flight. This is the door that you might board on through a jetway. You can see it right here. Folks streaming out.

You can see the landing gear is deployed. So the gear was down. A fair amount of clues here, but this is not an easy thing to do, to evacuate a commercial flight with such rapidity in a situation where it's not upright. This is upside down. And so imagine yourself and sort of the terror and the anxiety that one would feel if the plane was immediately upside down. You're hanging in your seatbelt.

That's where a lot of injuries can occur when people take off their seatbelt too quickly. Gravity takes over. Now you're on the roof of the airplane, which is now the bottom.

So getting out of this is very critical. And aviation's first responders, flight attendants, really assist you in making sure that this happens OK. A pretty incredible thing that we're able to say.

There were some injuries, although all crew and passengers have been accounted for, according to Toronto Pearson International Airport.

KEILAR: Yes, pretty amazing. Eight injuries. We don't know the severity of them at this point, out of 80 passengers. The FAA is saying 80 people on board evacuated. Pete, thank you so much.

And let's bring in our Paula Newton. Paula, you just flew into New York from Toronto's Pearson Airport. Can you tell us a little bit about what the conditions were like earlier?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I don't have Pete's expertise, but I can tell you I have been through this airport hundreds of times. That is more snow than I have ever seen there. And I was there for well over two hours waiting for my flight.

The snow was actually blowing and you could see the snow removal crews all over the airport just trying to keep up with the blowing snow. And for perspective, in the last week, they just finished a major storm in Toronto. But for perspective, they had probably 15, 16 inches of snow in the last week.

You could really tell at the airport. And that's what struck me as well as the winds. The winds was whipping up the snow incredibly in all directions.

When we went to try and take off, we were delayed 30 to 45 minutes, I would say, just waiting for runways to open, given the winds and the fact that they want to be safe. I mean, I guess that was the delay. That's at least what our captain told us.

It was blue skies, though there weren't weren't flurries at the time. And you can see from some of the video here, but extraordinary. I will say I have detailed operations at this airport behind the scenes for years now.

They train for this hours and hours throughout the year for this such incident. And thankfully, it does look like they were ready to try and help some of the people get off that plane.

But I can tell you those conditions are not predictable for Toronto. They were under a lot of pressure, obviously, to try and get some of these planes moving as they had extensive cancellations and delays in the last 48 hours. But yes, the amount of snow, I cannot tell you how it was blowing

around. And the fact that it was even on the runway itself and even where we were taxing, large amounts of snow continued to blow throughout the entire afternoon, despite the blue skies that you see there. It was just incredible for the snow crews really to try keep up with this.

SANCHEZ: Yes, really, some incredible images. We'll see how weather may have played a factor in this incident. Paula, thank you for that perspective.

If you were just joining us, this is a really, wow, a harrowing scene. A Delta plane flight 4819 coming from Minneapolis, flipping as it lands at Toronto's Pearson Airport. All 80 passengers on board evacuated, all of them alive.

We're learning up to eight of them were injured. The extent of their injuries at this point, unknown. As you look at video captured from the ground moments after the incident took place, you see in the distance what appears to be the wing of this aircraft.

Clearly firefighters scrambling to put out flames and emergency crews wrangling passengers, getting them safely out of the plane.

[16:00:00]

A lot to investigate though as far as what may have gone wrong here.

KEILAR: That's right. They certainly were dealing with some wind and weather conditions. We can see that a lot of snow, a lot of blowing snow, winds as Pete had reported at 27 knots gusting up to 45. That is not nothing when you're talking about a crosswind.

But again, 80 people on that plane, crew and passengers, they got out alive. Up to eight of them injured, we're learning from the FAA.

We'll continue to follow this here on CNN. Stay with us.

END