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Judge Denies Dem Attempt To Block DOGE From Federal Data Systems; New York Governor Hochul Considers Next Steps In Mayor Adams Case; Rep. Gabe Amo (D-RI) On Zelenskyy Saying Trump "Lives In This Disinformation Space." Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 19, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:50]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The Trump administration, so far, winning its fight in court to give DOGE full access to government agencies, while in New York a Democratic mayor is being saved from a corruption case after the Trump-appointed DOJ leadership demanded the case be dropped.

Joining me now CNN political commentators Scott Jennings and Bakari Sellers.

All right, so let's go to this case that was in federal court. Judge Tanya Chutkan declined to block Musk and his team from gaining access to data at seven government agencies after Democratically led states sued to stop DOGE. This is the same judge that presided over the January 6 election subversion case against Donald Trump when Trump famously described her as the "most evil person."

Scott, is that still the case for Donald Trump after this decision?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH (via Webex by Cisco): Well, first of all, it's a good decision. It's amazing to me that Donald Trump has to go to court to fight off attempts to keep the duly elected president and his appointees from having access to the federal government. I mean, this is after all, the people that we elected to run the country. And they have to go into court and fight to run the country? I mean, it sounds crazy.

So I think it was the only decision she could make because it's patently ridiculous when Democrat attorneys general go to partisan judges or any judges for that matter and try to stop the duly elected government from operating. That's number one.

Number two, this effort is nothing more than an attempt to control the federal bureaucracy and restore some political oversight to the federal government. That is all they are trying to do. So ultimately, I think people are happy with it. And I think they're finding some things that need to be uncovered, and the more that they are transparent about that and the more they put that information out to the American people the more popular it's going to become.

SIDNER: But you do you still think he thinks she's the most evil person?

JENNINGS: I don't know. I mean, how can you make a -- I mean, I don't know what -- I don't know what kind of person she is. I never met her, and I try not to cast aspersions on people I don't know.

But I know this. How can you make any other decision than the one that she made? He's the president. These are his appointees going into the federal agencies that they were elected to run. So what does it matter what he said as a matter of a political statement before as long as the result here is they get to run the federal government just like the people asked for?

SIDNER: Bakari, her decision another blow to Democrats trying to stop the way that DOGE is doing business. But Democrats have been, in the past, for a long time saying that the federal government is too bloated.

What do you make of what's happening here?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (via Webex by Cisco): No. I mean, I think that the actions that you saw by these Democratic attorneys generals were the simple fact that you don't have any oversight with these employees at DOGE. That you don't have the guardrails that are normally in place when you have government employees.

This is -- take, for example, we don't have any financial disclosures to talk about the conflict of interest of someone like Elon Musk who is going in and just dissembling federal agencies that either 1) he has a vested interest in -- a financial interest in -- or 2) were investigating him.

And so when you look at those clear conflicts and not having financial disclosures, it then poses the next question which is what is he doing with the information he ascertains? What is doing with the data that he gets? Is he using it for his own personal needs or good? I mean, we don't have those answers because they don't have those disclosures. We don't know the conflicts and we don't have the oversight.

Judge Chutkan -- and I chuckled a little bit over here when Scott stumbled over partisan judges. Nobody's fishing for partisan judges. She's an amazing jurist. She's one of the brightest jurists we have on any bench in America.

And so for Trump to cast aspersions on her -- not my friend Scott, but for Trump to do so simply because she was ruling over his criminal proceeding -- she is actually feeding them out of the same spoon of justice. She said and found, like Scott said, that there was no legal ground for this impediment to go forward. But for Trump to call her names when he -- she was giving him justice in the criminal proceedings is not fair.

The second thing I have to point out really quickly Sara is this. DOGE is incompetent. Whether or not you're talking about firing individuals who are over our nuclear arsenal or firing those regulators who are in charge of controlling the Avian bird flu, we've seen nothing but incompetence from DOGE.

[07:35:00]

And so while the judge may not be able to stop them, the utter incompetence of these 20-somethings running around in federal government with no experience, firing people they should not, the American people will stop them eventually.

SIDNER: All right. Zelenskyy says Donald Trump is unfortunately living in -- and these are his words -- a disinformation space and Trump is using Russian talking points, blaming Ukraine for starting the war with Russia when it was Russia that invaded Ukraine unprovoked.

Scott, the president of Ukraine is basically saying the President of the United States doesn't know what the truth is. It's quite a statement. What do you make of it?

JENNINGS: Yeah. Well, first of all, I think what everybody wants is the war to end, and for the killing to end, and for us to have some peace in Europe. That's number one.

Number two, I do think Ukraine needs to be at the table for whatever peace talks occur. I think that's vital. And I heard Secretary of Defense Hegseth say that the end goal for the United States is for Ukraine to be free and prosperous. I take him at his word and for that to be the case they have to be at the table.

Number three, I agree with you. Russia did invade Ukraine her and they are ultimately on the geopolitical stage. They're the bad guy and I think we should all understand that.

So as this unfolds, I'm not going to prejudge the outcome here. But I do also take Donald Trump and his people at their word, which is that they've been handed this mess.

The war didn't start on their watch but they would like for it to end on their watch because they think a peaceful solution to this and a peaceful Europe is better for the world at large. It's better for all of our economies. It's better for our security. And if they can get there ultimately in a way that allows Ukraine to remain free and prosperous -- that's a statement of the administration -- I think that'll be a great thing.

SIDNER: Bakari, what do you make of this? These comments by Zelenskyy are pretty stark.

SELLERS: Yeah. I mean, I question the leadership we have when you have Pete Hegseth who goes out there in his first foray into the world stage and makes one of the biggest gaffes we've seen of any defense secretary by simply coming out and saying that Ukraine won't have a spot in NATO. That's not on the table even prior to discussions that are being had. I think even Republicans have castigated Hegseth for that kind of -- I mean, that just elementary error that he made. And so it shakes our faith.

I do agree with Scott on 1) Ukraine -- excuse me, Russia is definitely the aggressor here. They are the bad guy on the world stage. I agree with Scott on 2) Ukraine has to be at the table. You can't have discussions without that.

But 3) I do question the motives. I question the experience. I question the intellect of Donald Trump and his team because you can't go out here and simply give Russia the territory they want. You can't prevent Ukraine from joining NATO and allow Russia to do nothing.

So a wait-and-see. We'll see what happens.

SIDNER: We have a little bit of an agreement, which is a shocker on this Wednesday.

Scott Jennings, Bakari Sellers --

SELLERS: We --

SIDNER: -- thank you both so much.

SELLERS: We agree before lunchtime, Sara. We agree before lunch.

SIDNER: Excellent. I like it. I'd like a little agreement. It's nice. All right, thank you, gentlemen -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Today the case of the New York City Mayor Eric Adams will be before a judge. This time a federal judge will consider the Justice Department's directive to dismiss the corruption charges against him -- a move that had the top prosecutor on that case accusing Adams and the Trump administration of a quid pro quo.

This will be also the first public meeting on this since seven federal prosecutors resigned in protest over the DOJ's move, and four deputies to Mayor Adams resigned as well.

And it comes just after New York's Governor Kathy Hochul convened a meeting with Democratic leaders yesterday to discuss whether she should take the extraordinary move of removing Adams from office herself.

Joining us right now is Donovan Richards, the Queens Borough president and one of the leaders that met with the governor yesterday on this very issue. Thank you so much for coming on this morning.

What is your takeaway from your conversation and your meeting with Governor Hochul? Is she leaning towards removing Eric Adams or not?

DONOVAN RICHARDS, QUEENS BOROUGH PRESIDENT (via Webex by Cisco): Well, good morning, Kate.

Today is really a defining moment for Eric Adams -- Mayor Adams. At 2:00, obviously, he's going to go before Judge Ho and the -- and the DOJ. And really, the conversation yesterday was centered on how do we make

sure that we have a New York City that is actually functioning? Right now it feels like a lot of chaos and controversy.

And we need a city that's really functioning because people are hurting out there in light of a lot of these initiatives the Trump administration is bringing down the line, whether it's targeting the -- DEI or whether it is the attacks against public education, or even clawing back money that was meant for New York City to address the migrant crisis that we encountered over the course of the last two years.

BOLDUAN: But in your conversation with the governor did you -- do you have an inkling of where -- how she is leaning or if she was -- gave a timeline of when she will decide?

[07:40:05]

RICHARDS: Well, I think today is a defining moment, once again, for Mayor Adams. This court case is going to determine a lot within the Democratic Party. I think I've heard minority leader Hakeem Jeffries say the same exact thing.

And then, you know, obviously, she wanted to hear from leaders such as myself who represent the areas that Mayor Adams particularly has done relatively well in southeast Queens, central Brooklyn.

You know, it's not easy to unilaterally remove the second African American mayor, so if she's going to do that, she definitely will need support of individuals such as myself who don't take this lightly as well and want to see this case resolved.

BOLDUAN: Other leaders in New York City have come out to say that Mayor Adams should resign. Where do you have -- I have not heard you say that you believe he should resign. Do you think he should resign or be removed?

RICHARDS: Well, innocent or proven guilty, Mayor Adams was not convicted of anything. What I'm watching for is to see if there are mass resignations in the days to come as well because if we see more mass resignations --

BOLDUAN: You don't think four deputies already resigning is a mass resignation?

RICHARDS: Well, it's definitely troubling but remember, New York City also operates with, like, 50 commissioners, right? So you still have commissioners in line. You still have 400,000 workers who are showing up daily who are driving the city. So I wanted to make sure that those commissioners are in line and they're continuing to work with us. And next week we have a bevy of initiatives that we're rolling out with many of Adams' administration commissioners.

So I can say that the city is still functioning. My job has not gotten harder. But these deputy mayors, many who I know, certainly bring a breadth of knowledge to this -- to this business and to our city, and we need to see them replaced immediately.

BOLDUAN: I heard you say that the mayor needs to send a straightforward message that he has the capacity to govern in the best interest of New Yorkers.

What could Eric Adams say that you could actually trust that he's not -- that he is acting in the capacity of the values of New Yorkers and not just acting to stay in the good graces of the Trump administration? That's a step that no one's defined yet. What could he say to you that you could trust?

RICHARDS: Well, I represent the most diverse county in New York City, Queens County -- 2.4 million residents.

And the mere fact that Mayor Adams is being paraded around by the Trump border czar Homan on the couch at "FOX & FRIENDS" saying I'm going to be up your butt, that specifically was very troubling. The mayor needs to come out and specifically say we are going to be here to preserve the barriers and protect immigrants around New York City.

You know, my father became a New York -- a citizen in 2020. The first election he could vote in was mine as the borough president of Queens, the most diverse county.

We need to see Mayor Adams doubling down. You know, we've seen memos in the past few weeks that have said well, move aside if ICE comes into your schools and comes into your houses of worship. That is totally unacceptable.

And we need to hear the mayor come out with a clear message that we will not allow our values to be challenged by the Trump administration.

BOLDUAN: What's the timeline on the -- like, what's the timeline on when you'll accept that or you're going to call for him to step aside?

RICHARDS: Well, today is, like I said, is a defining date for myself --

BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE).

RICHARDS: -- and I know of many --

BOLDUAN: OK.

RICHARDS: -- other leaders are watching this very closely today. And, of course, it's not about your words, it's about your deeds. And he needs to double down in funding and making sure that all the essential services are there to support immigrant communities.

BOLDUAN: Donovan Richards, Queens Borough president. Thank you so much for coming in. I look forward to hearing your thoughts after today -- John.

BERMAN: All right. We are just learning of major developments from Ukraine. President Zelenskyy lashes back at President Trump who accused Ukraine of starting the war against Russia -- that one where Russia invaded.

And then life-threatening record cold hitting a large swath of the country -- 50 degrees below normal. That is cold.

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[07:48:55]

BOLDUAN: Since taking office almost exactly one month ago, President Trump has made clear he is moving full steam ahead with his interpretation of presidential powers. And to do so he is leaning on the Supreme Court's decision last year that granted him broad immunity from criminal prosecution. Is this now something of a blank check?

CNN has new reporting on this. President Trump's legal team and the Justice Department have cited that Supreme Court decision now in several major filings to justify their moves.

CNN's Joan Biskupic has all of this and new analysis on this for us. Joan, good morning. What are you finding?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Good morning, Kate.

Yes, he is taking a very muscular approach across the board and using as sort of a tool in all of this the Supreme Court's decision from last year.

We now have, this week, before the Supreme Court the first test of the Trump agenda. It involves his effort to fire the head of a watchdog agency. And as he claims that he should be able to fire a Biden appointee who supposedly has a five-year term and he was just appointed last year, Donald Trump is picking up the immunity decision from last year -- last summer.

[07:50:05]

As you remember, that was the case where the justices gave Donald Trump presumptive immunity from criminal prosecution for his election subversion case. It was a criminal case. But the president now is trying to use that ruling to enhance his powers across the board. And in this firing dispute he's saying that essentially, he can sideline Congress and the courts.

Here is part of what he picked up from that ruling last year to make his case right now before the court. He says, "As the court observed just last term Congress cannot act on and the courts cannot examine the president's actions on subjects within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority, including the president's unrestricted power of removal with respect to executive officers of the United States whom the president has appointed."

Now, Trump's actions here in court, Kate, are parallel to what he's been doing in the Oval Office signing scores of executive orders, making all sorts of claims about his power -- the kind of consolidated power of the executive branch, as I say, kind of shoving out the other two branches. And it is part and parcel with another line we heard from him just

this weekend when he asserted, "He who saves the country does not violate any law."

I think that goes to show just how President Trump is trying to flex his muscle and trying to use past -- this past landmark from the Supreme Court to do it -- to amass more power to the exclusion of Congress and even the courts themselves, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. It also seems to be also triggering more cases that will likely be heading straight back to the Supreme Court.

It's good to see you, Joan. Thank you very much as always -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Breaking this morning, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy pushing back against President Trump, really in the strongest terms he has used.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Unfortunately, President Trump -- I have great respect for him as a leader of a nation that we have great respect for the American people always support us -- unfortunately, lives in this disinformation space.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: President Trump "lives in this disinformation space."

This comes after President Trump tried to kind of rewrite history blaming Zelenskyy for Russia invading Ukraine.

With us now is Gabe Amo, Democratic congressman from the state of Rhode Island. He's the vice-ranking member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

Do you agree with President Zelenskyy, and how wise is it do you think for him to be so critical of President Trump?

REP. GABE AMO (D-RI) (via Webex by Cisco): Well, first off, thanks for having me, John.

Look, I think President Zelenskyy is accurate. And even beyond that, President Trump is not only living in a disinformation space, he is governing, advancing, and growing this ahistorical version of reality where he is blaming Ukrainians for their plight. Blaming them for Russia's invasion.

And I think it's incumbent on us to speak truth. And so I agree with President Zelenskyy's goal in advancing that and setting the terms here that Donald Trump's weakness relative to Vladimir Putin should not be something that changes and rewrite history.

BERMAN: Let's listen to what President Trump said -- one of the things he said that President Zelenskyy might be referring to as misinformation -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think I have the power to end this war, and I think it's going very well. But today I heard oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: "You should have never started it," he said of Ukraine, Congressman.

AMO: Well, we're all witness to history. We know that's false. This is the typical rhetoric of Donald Trump -- lies and frankly, a disgraceful betrayal of an ally -- an ally who we have supported.

You heard Sen. Roger Wicker, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, say very clearly that Vladimir Putin is a war criminal. There is a bipartisan agreement in Congress. When I talk to my colleagues on the Foreign Affairs Committee throughout Congress that we should not acquiesce to Putin's demands. Yet, Donald Trump again demonstrates weakness.

[07:55:00]

And at the end of the day this is a betrayal of our allies. We're leaving Europe alone in addition to Ukraine. We need Ukraine at the table, and we need this to be an actual negotiation if that is what is going to resolve this conflict.

BERMAN: I want to read you a line written by Peter Baker in The New York Times today. Peter Baker writes, "For more than a decade, the West has faced off against the East again in what was widely called a new cold war. But with President Trump back in office, America is giving the impression that it could be switching sides."

What do you think of that -- the idea that the U.S. is switching sides in this cold war?

AMO: Well look, that is a real questioning of our values, and that is only the case because of Donald Trump's failed leadership. In just 30 days he has turned his back on those who we have been linked with in setting forth an agenda of freedom and democracy in this world.

And so I hope that the better angels speak to the president, Secretary Rubio, and those around the table to bring in Ukraine, to bring in our European allies so that -- and add the alliance that we deserve -- not an allegiance with Vladimir Putin and his aggression.

BERMAN: Do you think Secretary Rubio agrees with President Trump that Ukraine started the war?

AMO: Look, I've seen a lot of what Secretary Rubio has said before and I think sometimes things change when people get a new title. And all I can say is I would hope that some of his past rhetoric about needing to stand up to Russia actually reflects itself in what we see at the table in the coming weeks.

BERMAN: Congressman Gabe Amo, the pride of Pawtucket, Rhode Island. I miss McCoy Stadium. Thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate your time -- Sara.

AMO: Thank you.

SIDNER: All right. The ultimate case of being in the right place at the right time. A fiery crash leading to a stunning rescue -- all of it caught on a police officer's body camera in Mesa, Arizona.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Car crash)

OFFICER BRIAN LARISON, CHANDLER POLICE DEPARTMENT: Here! Here! Here! Get out of the way! Get out of the way!

And I hit it two more times and it broke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: That was Officer Brian Larison there with his baton jumping into action after a cement truck slammed into an SUV causing fire to erupt with the driver of that SUV still trapped inside. An off-duty firefighter then steps in to pull the woman from her car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARISON: The thought of a human life perishing by flame, you know, is just -- I -- you know, my -- I was just I'm not going to let this happen. She clung to me on the side of the road and I just held her, and I just told her I had her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: That's sweet.

The pickup truck's driver, by the way, sustained just moderate injuries after all of that. She's expected to be OK. An investigation, of course, into that crash is underway.

All right. Also on our radar this morning rapper A$AP Rocky found not guilty of two felony assault charges. His emotional reaction playing out in court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not guilty.

(Cheering)

A$AP ROCKY, RAPPER, FOUND NOT GUILTY OF ASSAULT CHARGES: (Hugs longtime girlfriend and other of his two children, superstar Rhianna.) (END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: You saw him jump there. He was jumping over to hug his longtime girlfriend and mother of his two children, superstar Rhianna.

Prosecutors had charged him with firing two gunshots at a former friend in 2021. The rapper eventually thanked the jury for what he said saved his life.

And Chinese officials are apologizing for failing to make good on their promise of a winter wonderland. Visitors were promised snow at a popular tourist attraction in Sichuan, China. Instead they found a bit of a mess of cotton, wool, and foamy water. Pictures posted online show wisps of that cotton -- you see it there -- scattered on the ground. The roof was blanketed with what looks like a blanket or some sort of bed sheet. Officials admitted the cotton did not achieve the expected effect.

You know, there are lots of other places to find snow -- that's for sure for us.

BOLDUAN: And there's also ways you can create snow, too.

SIDNER: True.

BOLDUAN: There are -- I've seen it at many a ski mountain. But you know what? I'm going to say --

SIDNER: Nope.

BOLDUAN: -- you do not get an A for effort at this point. I really -- I was going to try and you --

SIDNER: You were trying to be kind and I did not let you.

BOLDUAN: You cannot. You cannot.

SIDNER: A bit disappointed.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

If you want to talk about snow --

SIDNER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- we've got a lot of it over here though. More than 100 million people are under cold weather alerts this morning. Temperatures are plunging all over the place and plunging by as much as 50 degrees below normal in parts of the U.S. At least 27 states are now expected to see record lows.

CNN's Derek Van Dam tracking all of this for us.