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Trumps Poll Numbers After Month in Office; Makena Kelly is Interviewed about Musk; Measles Outbreak in Texas and New Mexico; DOGE Sets Sights on IRS; Electric Race Car Makes Debut. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 19, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:34:23]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Can you believe it? It's already been almost a month into President Trump's second term. We're digging deeper into his approval ratings and what's fueling them.

CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten is here. He needs no explanation or introduction. He's just going to give us the numbers.

The normal rule of politics is, if you win independents, you win the electorate. So, what is happening with the numbers?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: What is Going on here? Well, Donald Trump is doing his best Frank Sinatra interpretation, or impersonation, going my way.

OK, Trump's net approval rating, overall, look at this, he's at plus three points. He's been above water. He's been above water his entire first term. But - or second term, excuse me.

[08:35:02]

Look among independents though. He's way underwater. He's way underwater. He's at minus ten points. Normally you win independents, therefore you win the middle. But, in fact, Trump is doing the exact opposite, he is winning overall, but losing among independents. And this looks an awful bit like what happened in the fall election where, of course, Kamala Harris won among independents but Donald Trump won overall. Trump is repeating this playbook, breaking history, doing poorly with independents, but doing considerably better than he did in term number one overall being above water.

SIDNER: OK, so what is the reason for this that he's posting basically overall he's up. But you're seeing this.

ENTEN: Yes.

SIDNER: And what's the reason?

ENTEN: This makes no sense you might think.

SIDNER: Yes.

ENTEN: But what's going on here? Well, first off what's going on here is, remember in term one there was all that big opposition to Donald Trump. Democrats hated him. Well, right now, Trump's net approval rating among Democrats is underwater. Way underwater at -78 points. But the Trump base, the Trump base is consolidated behind the Republican president to an extent that we really did not necessarily see in term number one.

Look at this, his net approval rating is plus 84 points. So, more Republicans are behind Donald Trump than Democrats are opposed to Donald Trump, and that is lifting him up and giving him that positive net approval rating, despite the fact that he's losing among Democrats and losing among independents, Sara.

SIDNER: So, are there other groups in this that are making this, you know, different? I mean independents, Democrats, Republicans, isn't that everybody?

ENTEN: Yes, that is everybody. But it's not just the margins that you post among these groups, it's what percentage of the electorate that they make up.

SIDNER: Gotcha.

ENTEN: And Donald Trump and the Republican Party has changed the electorate. What do I mean by that? Well, let's take a look at party identification. Democrats versus Republicans. You go back to 2017, five points more of the electorate was Democrats than Republicans. You go to 2021, when Joe Biden was starting out, look at that, six points more of the electorate was Democrats than Republicans.

But look at what's happened in February of 2025. Look at this. Republicans. There are more Republicans in the electorate than there are Democrats. Republican plus two. So, Donald Trump and the Republicans have remade the electorate. They've turned some people over from being Democrats or independents to become Republicans. New folks have entered the electorate who are more Republican leaning. And so, when you combine that with the fact that Republicans are really, really behind Donald Trump, all of a sudden you get a winning recipe whereby you break the normal rules of politics and give Donald Trump that positive net approval rating when he had pretty much a consistently negative one in term number one.

As I said at the beginning, he's copying Frank Sinatra, doing it my way.

SIDNER: I just want to remark on how you have Meg Thee Stallion knees, because the fact that you could go that low is pretty -

ENTEN: I can go low.

SIDNER: Yes. I'm (INAUDIBLE).

ENTEN: I can go high. That's an Elon Musk.

SIDNER: He has no idea what I'm talking about right now with Meg Thee Stallion, but we will move on and send it over to Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much.

Let's turn to this.

President Trump and special government employee Elon Musk sat down with Fox News for a joint interview last night. Trump touting Musk's role with DOGE as serious questions have been raised over who is really running the thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You write a beautiful executive and you - you sign it and you assume it's going to be done, but it's not. What he does is he takes it, and with his 100 geniuses, he's got some very brilliant young people working for him that dress much worse than him, actually.

ELON MUSK: Yes, better.

TRUMP: They dress in just t-shirts. You wouldn't - you wouldn't know they have 180 IQ.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Wait, wait, so what he's - he's your tech support?

TRUMP: No, no he is. He is. But he's much more than that.

MUSK: I actually literally am tech support.

TRUMP: Yes.

MUSK: Technically (ph) I'm tech support, though, but that's -

TRUMP: He gets it done. He's a leader.

MUSK: Yes.

TRUMP: He really is. He gets it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: He's a leader. He gets it done. But we still don't know who's in charge of DOGE.

Joining us right now is Makena Kelly. She's a senior writer with - a politics writer with - with "Wired."

Thank you so much for being here.

And you guys just did a deep dive yourself on this question that's been raised through legal filings and then from statements from the White House of who is the administrator of and who is in charge of DOGE. What did you find?

MAKENA KELLY, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, "WIRED": Yes, so people have been asking this question ever since that executive order was signed on January 20th. Even talking to legacy USDS employees who were there prior to Elon Musk taking over, they have been asking their managers, who is their boss? And every single time they're met with a, I don't know. It could be somebody else.

BOLDUAN: This is a - so, this is - this part of your - your - your piece I really jumped on, which is, you've spoken to the people in the office that DOGE took over and they don't know who is running it.

KELLY: No, they don't know who is running it. They don't know - no one's signed their termination letters, which was a question where this kind of got a lot - people were more wanting an answer, right?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

KELLY: Because they're like, who - who fired me? But ever since the Department of Government Efficiency, the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, opened, the DOGE people, the Steve Davis, the Stephanie M. Holmes, everyone that Musk brought in with him to DOGE has basically - they've basically set up a firewall between themselves and the legacy employees there.

[08:40:02]

So, they - there's like zero contact. I think there's only been one meeting with their HR person where DOGE was actually speaking with people who have been there for years at this point.

BOLDUAN: Why the confusion and the vagaries and the muddiness around this is a key question. Kara Swisher was on last night, and she said she thinks it's intentional, which is, when things get messed up, then you can't say it's on Elon Musk.

KELLY: Yes. Look -

BOLDUAN: What do you think?

KELLY: Yes, look at all the lawsuits that have already been submitted and filed on behalf of, like, employee groups, unions, all kinds of things. And if Elon Musk was the administrator, which they're saying he's not, he could be liable for those things. And I guess making that - taking him and putting him within the executive office of the president, rather than being at USDS DOGE proper, shields him in one way from that liability. And also, now that he's in the executive office of the president, you can't necessarily look for all the things and emails that he says because of, you know, FOIA rules and how they don't affect the White House.

BOLDUAN: So this also flies - goes to a broader conversation I wanted to have with you, which it also flies in the face of what we have heard from Elon Musk multiple times now, where he talks about how DOGE is being maximum transparency, I believe is how he has described it. And this question, a very serious question on transparency, came up again in this conversation with Sean Hannity on Fox in talking about the very real conflicts of interest that are presented with Elon Musk being part of Donald Trump's administration. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's true.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: And if it comes up, how will you handle it?

ELON MUSK: Well -

TRUMP: He won't be involved.

MUSK: Yes, I'll - I'm - I'll recuse myself if it is (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: If there's a conflict, he won't be involved.

MUSK: Yes.

TRUMP: I mean, I wouldn't want that and he won't want it.

MUSK: Right. And also I'm getting a - sort of a daily proctology exam here. You know, it's not like I'll be getting away from something in the dead of night, you know?

HANNITY: Welcome to D.C. If you want a friend, get a dog.

MUSK: See - well, yes. I do have a dog, but I also have friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And it's not about friends at all. It is about transparency. By definition they are not - he is not in DOGE is not being transparent, providing the data, even providing the numbers of people who have been fired in one regard, or the numbers of dollars that they are freezing up. By definition they are not being transparent. Why do you think he keeps saying this?

KELLY: Yes. So, you can tell just by the way that DOGE is even set up. They don't even want to comment on all these things. And why the not having so much - why it's - why is it so opaque?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

KELLY: I think it's so people don't ask too many questions, you know. There's a lot of things that DOGE is doing, and they're doing things that I think experts will say is incredibly illegal. And so, if you don't have the evidence for those things, then you can't go after someone.

BOLDUAN: What do you think Elon Musk's definition of transparency then is?

KELLY: It's posting on X. That's exactly what it is. And that's what we've seen play out this week. Of course we have the DOGE Twitter account, X account, that was created. And then a variety of other X accounts that were created for every federal agency. It looked like the CFPB, the FTC, et cetera, everything like that. And where they're crowdfunding, crowdsourcing all of this information from people who are just on X, it's -

BOLDUAN: Because it's what you use, what people use for X is to say things or put out press releases, or to put spin on anything that's out there, not putting out the data or the spreadsheets or the numbers, or opening up the books to show what is actually being done.

So - when are they - like, what's the next step here? What are you hearing in like where even the legacy employees are going to be able to - what they're going to be able to do?

KELLY: Yes, so they had at USDS their weekly staff meeting yesterday and they got no word on who the administrator would be. And they're kind of just working on similar projects that they've been working on already. It's as if everything is business as usual at USDS and DOGE.

When it comes to opening things up and having a better idea of what DOGE is doing, in the executive order it says that the administrator is tasked with writing some report at the end of the first month of DOGE and then providing an extensive report, a more extensive report come, you know, six months from now. I think we might have some insight into who the administrator is by who signs that whenever those come out.

BOLDUAN: Well, tomorrow is February 20th. So, we shall see.

KELLY: We shall see.

BOLDUAN: It's good - Makena, great reporting. Thank you for coming in.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Kate, people use Twitter to spread sunshine and good cheer.

BOLDUAN: I'm sorry, I meant to add that.

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Add that caveat.

BERMAN: All right, developing this morning, the measles outbreak in west Texas and New Mexico has doubled in size since Friday, and officials say more cases are almost certain.

CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard is with us now.

Last time I talked to you, the number of cases has just doubled. Now they've doubled again.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Exactly. John. This outbreak is getting pretty big. What we know so far in west Texas, we know at least 58 people have gotten sick as part of this measles outbreak.

[08:45:05]

Thirteen of them have been hospitalized.

And then, in neighboring New Mexico, there have been an additional eight cases as part of this outbreak. And most of these cases, according to Texas health officials, have been in unvaccinated people. Four cases have been in people who said that they were vaccinated. And we know the measles vaccine, it's safe and highly effective, 97 percent effective, but 97 is not 100 percent. So, when you do see the virus continuing to spread and spread, there is this small chance of someone who may have been vaccinated getting infected. But because they have that vaccine protection, their illness will likely be much milder.

Now, with this outbreak, it's growing so much. Health officials warn we could see more cases to come. The measles virus is so contagious, John, that if an infected person coughs or sneezes, the virus can linger in the air or on surfaces for up to two hours, even after the infected person has left the room. That's why, when we see measles outbreaks like this, it's very concerning.

BERMAN: So, for decades, we didn't even have to ask this question, what are the symptoms of measles, because they didn't exist, but now we have to ask again, what do parents need to look for?

HOWARD: That's right. I mean the U.S. eliminated measles in the year 2000, but we do occasionally see these kind of outbreaks in unvaccinated communities. And so, the signs and symptoms to look for, three key warning signs. If your child has a cough, if they have a very congested nose, and if they have red, watery eyes, those are three key warning signs. Other symptoms, a high fever that can spike above 104 degrees Fahrenheit, and the classic measles rash that typically develops about three to five days after the first symptoms appear. So, those are the warning signs to watch for, John.

BERMAN: Be on the lookout, especially if your kids are not vaccinated.

Jacqueline Howard, thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, DOGE's next target, gaining access to sensitive IRS taxpayer data, right as millions of Americans are filing their taxes.

And, start your electric engines. How Nascar is planning for a future with gas free cars.

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[08:51:35]

SIDNER: DOGE now setting its sights on the IRS. Smack in the middle of its busiest season of the year - yes, it's tax season - Elon Musk's group wants to - access to the IRS' complex and interconnected data systems. And a former IRS commissioner says that could pose a risk to you and your data.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is joining us now.

All right, what could happen if they are able to gain access, which it looks like they will be, because a judge has said they should be able to have access at this point in time. She did not block their access.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is probably the worst time for DOGE employees to be tinkering with the IRS system because over 100 million businesses and individuals are filing their taxes right now. And essentially, according to some high level officials who used to work at the IRS, just a small tweak of the system could compromise data, but could also take down the entire system at this critical time.

So, what does this mean for all of us? Well, might not get your refund in a timely manner. You might not be able to access your own data. And also maybe just not even upload documents to file your taxes.

And why? There are a few key things that these IRS officials are pointing to. One, just distractions. DOGE employees being inside the offices will distract IRS employees from doing their job.

Another thing is just lack of training around these complex systems. DOGE employees likely are not trained on these systems, and so it's easy to misinterpret the data that they're looking for. They're trying to get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse. You might look at something and say, well, wait a minute, why is this person getting a tax refund? But there are certain tax codes that go with certain people's filings that they might not understand.

And then, of course, if they want to make any major system changes, that's not only hard for the people filing, us, to understand, but the people working at the IRS to understand.

SIDNER: Right.

YURKEVICH: You have legacy employees who have been there for so long, who know these systems in and out, and to make changes right now could essentially bring down the entire system.

SIDNER: I mean if you look at the tax code, which the nerdy person in me has, it's like -

YURKEVICH: Yes, it's a lot.

SIDNER: There's just so much in there and there's an argument to simplify it. But right now, the way it stands, it is complex as it gets. So, what would be a better time for them to be able to access this? I mean now doesn't seem like it.

YURKEVICH: Yes. I mean they're saying, according to these IRS officials, high level, these are, you know, people who led the agency -

SIDNER: Right. YURKEVICH: Are saying that the - summer would be a better time because you'd have the bulk of the tax filings dealt with by then. But one of these former IRS commissioners put it like this, and I think it kind of sums it up nicely. He said that getting involved in the system now, "it runs the risk of making life very difficult for tax filers and tax preparers. Filers aren't just Democrats. They're Republicans and independents. It makes no sense."

So, for the people working at the IRS, this is not political. They just want to be able to get the job done for everyone. And this timing is just not the best. The - the advice is to wait till summer if you really want to get into the system and make any critical changes.

SIDNER: I've also heard there is real concern about security breaches because once you start tinkering, if you're not careful, you might expose some of the data. Our data.

YURKEVICH: Absolutely. Absolutely.

SIDNER: To be fair.

YURKEVICH: A big concern just having access, but then maybe that information getting outside of the system.

[08:55:00]

SIDNER: Lots of things to think about, on top of the fact that we should be starting to prepare our taxes.

YURKEVICH: That's true.

SIDNER: Which just irks me. But it's got to happen.

YURKEVICH: Unless you file an extension.

SIDNER: There's that.

Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much.

YURKEVICH: Thank you.

SIDNER: John.

BERMAN: Do not irk Sara Sidner.

This morning, former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro has been charged in connection with an attempted coup to overturn the results of the 2022 election there. Prosecutors allege that this plot began in 2021 with an effort to undermine public trust in electronic voting machines. The charges include armed criminal organization, attempted violent abolition of the democratic rule of law, coup d'etat and damage qualified by violence. CNN Brazil reports that Bolsonaro is attempting to negotiate a potential amnesty deal. He could face 28 years in prison if found guilty.

So, this morning, a woman in Georgia says she gave birth to a child that was not hers after she received the wrong embryo from a fertility clinic. The child she delivered was African-American, while she and her sperm donor were both white. The clinic admitted the mistake to CNN affiliate WTOC. She ultimately had to return the baby to his biological parents after a five-month custody battle. Now her attorneys say she's trying to figure out what happened to her embryo.

So, this morning, officials in Sicily say that tourists are getting to be a problem at Mount Etna. Thousands go to see the erupting volcano in the lava, but their cars block rescue crews from reaching people who get hurt or lost on or around the mountain. Eight hikers were lost for several hours the other day before rescuers were able to locate them. One other option to help people from getting lost would be maps.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of an active volcano.

BERMAN: Well, I just don't know, like, why are we blaming the tourists because people are getting lost on the mountain? There's something about this story I don't get. But Mount Etna's very pretty.

BOLDUAN: I am casting no blame whatsoever except on you.

Let's turn to this.

The electric car revolution made its Nascar debut at the Daytona 500 this past weekend.

CNN's Bill Weir takes us to the place where now sustainability meets diehard race car fans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just outside the cradle of American racing, automobile history was made this weekend when Formula drift superstar Ryan Tuerck swapped out his rubber burning rig for a machine with twice the power. Over 1,300 horses, but with a fraction of the noise and not a whiff of exhaust. Behold, the first electric Nascar.

WEIR: This is so surreal. Normally this event would come with a thunderous sound of that internal combustion engine, but all you hear is this high pitched whine, and then just the tires being shredded by those electric engines.

RYAN TUERCK, FORMULA DRIFT DRIVER: The power is just out of this world. It's like nothing I've ever experienced before.

WEIR: It's like twice as much horses as a - as one of the regular Nascars, right?

TUERCK: Yes. That - beyond that you have the power on demand at all times.

WEIR: Like a power drill, you (ph) zing (ph).

TUERCK: There isn't - there isn't a power band, it's just - there's just all the power at all times.

WEIR (voice over): This is one of three electric prototypes unveiled this year as Nascar pledges to be net zero by 2035. But while this Chevy Blazer was supposed to be the first electric pace car in Daytona 500 history, it was literally cut off by Donald Trump's armor-plated motorcade. A fitting metaphor from a president who is vowing to destroy EV incentives, charging networks and tailpipe pollution standards as he promised to fossil fuel executives.

WEIR: Has the politics made your job harder these days?

RILEY NELSON, HEAD OF SUSTAINABILITY, NASCAR: We have very clear corporate goals around sustainability. And so our job is to focus on getting those done, no matter who's in office or what's going on. So, our focus is on right now again energy. And right now the race track you have behind you, that keeps me up at night on, how do we decarbonize that within the next ten years. And so that's everything from energy efficiency, LED lights, bringing in different AVV (ph) technologies, other partner technologies so that we can reduce our own operating footprint as a sport and then bring that to the fan and educate the fan on how can we bring some of these technologies into our communities and then help support the growth and sustainability across the country.

DAVID RAGAN, FORMER NASCAR DRIVER: Yes, I guarantee you there is more EVs in the parking lot today than there was five years ago. And in another five years there's going to be a lot more.

WEIR (voice over): David Ragan is a third generation Nascar racer who now drives an electric Ford Mustang in retirement simply because it's fast, fun, and cheaper to fuel and maintain. He believes this fan base is destined to make that same discovery. So, the market, not the president, will decide.

RAGAN: And I think the manufacturers really - they've got their finger on the pulse. Chevrolet, Ford Motor Company, you know, Toyota, the big partners here at Nascar, they've all got their different plans for how they're going to attack that. And, again, I think Nascar is just saying, hey, we want to be prepared when that evolution takes place.

[09:00:01]

JOHN STAHLBUSCH, EVP OF SALES, ABB: So, Daytona, they just electrified their parking lot. So, there - whenever their employees pull up, they'll be able to charge their vehicle.