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Trump's Biggest Lies; Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) is Interviewed on Patel Nomination; Measles Outbreak in West Texas; Casey Jordan is Interviewed about the Zizian Group. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daughter had tried taking her life on February 3rd, but didn't die until five days later, February 8th. And it wasn't until after that, that she was told by an investigator with the Gainesville School District that her daughter had been a victim of bullying, this is according to what the investigator told the family, and that the young girl had been told that because of her family's immigration status, that she was going to be deported, that her family was going to be deported, and that she would be left alone here in the United States. Her mother tells us that she believes it was that fear of being left alone that might have played a role in her daughter's suicide.

We also spoke with one of Jocelynn's friends, a young girl who also goes to the same school, and with permission of her mother, she told us that in recent weeks there had been a great deal of chatter in the school about ICE and deportation and immigration. A lot of words that these young kids had never really heard before and knew much about, but that it was definitely being talked about.

This is what that young girl told us yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENESSIS ARNAL, FRIEND OF JOCELYNN: She was very nice and pretty. I loved her. Basically when I heard that she was gone, I - I - don't know, it just shattered my heart. It hurt me really bad.

LAVANDERA: Did you hear kids talking about immigration and ICE and all these words that you guys probably don't know what it means?

ARNAL: Yes, but not to her. I've only heard it about people that are saying that ICE was coming and stuff, but that's all I heard.

LAVANDERA: Did you know that people had been bothering her and being mean to her?

ARNAL: Uh-uh.

LAVANDERA: You -

ARNAL: I didn't know at all.

LAVANDERA: OK.

ARNAL: If I knew, I would have told them to stop, I promise you. But -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: We have reached out to the school district there in Gainesville, Kate, and we have not heard a specific response about these specific bullying allegations against Joselynn. The school district did release a statement earlier saying that they take allegations of bullying seriously.

But it does raise a lot of questions as to about why. And this is one of the questions that the mother has, is that why wasn't she told that all of this was going on before her daughter's death?

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, for sure.

Ed, thank you very much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, ahead, the measles outbreak in west Texas exploding in size. Dozens of cases now reported, many unvaccinated. But now some who were vaccinated getting the virus. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to answer your questions.

And President Donald Trump's first month in office has been chock full of action, and also lies. A CNN fact check on the biggest ones, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:37:16]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, new this morning, we are seeing the impact of some of the things that President Trump is saying that are not true, saying that Ukraine started the war with Russia and more. Russian officials say they're laughing at all of this they're so happy. But Ukraine, Russia, this is not all the president has been saying that's not true.

CNN's fact checker in chief, Daniel Dale, is with us.

And, Daniel, on cnn.com you list what you call the 13 biggest lies of the first month. We can't do all 13, but what are some of the ones that jump out at you?

DANIEL DALE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: John, there were so many lies from the president of the United States in his first month that I had a hard time making that list of 13, which I think is bananas, if you take a second to think about it.

I did make a list, though, and I had it done. It was edited. And then the president dropped in probably the biggest lie of the whole month. You've been talking about it on your show this morning. Listen to what he said about the war in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it's going very well. But today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DALE: Russia started the war in Ukraine. This is obvious. It barely needs a fact check. I think the brazenness of this claim, John, is an example of the president's willingness to lie about even obvious stuff. Some of the lies on my list are about complicated policy subjects like tariffs. But he's also lying about things we witnessed with our own eyes.

I'll give you another representative example. It's an example of the president's years old habit. Something I call Trump-flation. And that is, making his inaccurate stories more and more inaccurate over time.

So, listen to how the saga of the imaginary Gaza condoms evolved over the course of about a week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: DOGE and OMB also found that there was about to be 50 million taxpayer dollars that went out the door to fund condoms in Gaza.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We identified and stopped $50 million being sent to Gaza to buy condoms for Hamas. $50 million. And you know what's happened to them? They've used them as a method of making bombs.

$50 million, plus another $50 million for condoms for Hamas. Do you know about that? $100 million for condoms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DALE: So, we went from $50 million in condoms for Gaza, to $50 million in condoms for Hamas to make bombs, to $100 million in condoms for Hamas. None of this was true. The White House had no evidence whatsoever of any condom purchases for Gaza or for Hamas. So, this was quite a tale.

I'll give you a third example on my list. The president has been repeatedly deceptive about the subject of birthright citizenship, the constitutional right he's trying to end. And he keeps saying that the U.S. is the only country in the world that offers birthright citizenship.

[08:40:02]

In fact, that's not even close to true. There are dozens of countries that also grant automatic citizenship to people born on their soil. And you don't have to look far. The list includes Canada and Mexico.

Now, you might say the president might be confused about this. Well, he's been making this same false claim, telling the same lie, since at least 2018. We've been fact checking this for more than six years.

BERMAN: Yes, repeating lies does not make them more true.

Daniel Dale with the facts this morning. Great to see you. Thank you very much for this hard work. People should go check out your full list on cnn.com.

Sara.

SIDNER: It is a long one.

All right, in a matter of hours, the Senate could vote to break a filibuster on Kash Patel's nomination to serve as director of the FBI. If that vote passes, the confirmation vote could happen as early as this afternoon. But some key GOP swing votes are staying pretty quiet at this point.

Democratic senator from Rhode Island, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, is joining us now.

Thank you for being here this morning. Appreciate your time.

If Patel is indeed confirmed as director of the FBI, what will that mean for America in your view?

SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI): Well, the first thing it will mean is that Republican senators who voted for him will own it because if he is as vindictive as his past shows he will be, if he has the foreign entanglements that his records show he has, and that comes back to haunt them, they will have known this. This will have been on the record.

He is a very dangerous individual for the FBI, both because of his vindictiveness and the foreign entanglements, but also because of his intentions for the FBI to do damage, for instance, to the Washington office where the counterintelligence and counter Russia operations take place.

I think what we're looking at, and you saw it in the last clip on your show about the Trump Russia coordination, I think Patel will be an eager participant in the Trump Russia schemes.

SIDNER: Donald Trump seems to be cozying up to Russia. He is lashing out at Ukraine and at Europe. I mean what do you think is happening here? Is he - is this just bluster, or do you think there is something really going on behind the scenes as well?

WHITEHOUSE: Well, you got to, you know, go back a ways. Trump Russia has always been a thing. Russia helped him get elected the first time. The Mueller report, the bipartisan Senate intelligence report, multiple court trials all showed the connections between Russia and Trump. And that has persisted. Russia helped him get elected this second time, and he is now tightly entwined with Putin, spouting Putin talking points.

What is the underlying rationale? What has Putin got on him? What is the promise or the threat that is driving this behavior? That is what we don't know. But the behavior is obviously indisputable.

SIDNER: The polling would suggest, though, it was the economy and immigration that got Trump elected this time around. And I want to talk about the economy and about the government and what's happening there. The Congress is really closing in on an important deadline, that is the potential of shutting down the government. A vote is scheduled on the Senate GOP's budget plan, which would divide Trump's priorities into two plans, although he has asked for, as he put it, one big, beautiful plan.

But Trump came out today and endorsed the House's plan. Is there any of those plans that Democrats can agree to?

WHITEHOUSE: Well, no, particularly in this reconciliation mode. When the Republicans are using this mode in which they can jam whatever they want through the Senate with the simple majority that they have, and of course through the House with the majority that they have, it is on them. They control all the levers. There is nothing that Democrats can do about reconciliation.

So, they have to figure out their way through this. And they own the consequences when they cannot. And if they completely fail, then they have to come to Democrats. But if they do, then we get to have our own say, and they don't get to just roll us while they need Democrat votes.

SIDNER: Trump declared that he saved New York after announcing the reversal of congestion pricing through the Department of Transportation. And he put something online saying, "long live the king," and then put an image of himself with the king's crown on his head. Do you think he's just trolling Americans, or is there truth in jest here?

WHITEHOUSE: Yes, I trolled back and said, "does this make him a royal pain in the ass."

SIDNER: Well, that is a way to respond to it. That is one way, sir.

Let me ask you - let me try not to laugh here. OK, it was funny.

Let me ask you about Democrats. Are Democrats lost in the sauce here? Donald Trump is sucking up, obviously as the president, all of the attention. He is making quick moves. He is, you know, letting DOGE do its deeds inside of many different departments.

[08:45:05]

What are Democrats doing?

WHITEHOUSE: Well, I would analogize this to a smash and grab robbery, all done for the benefit of providing tax breaks to billionaires at the end of the day. But in its tactics right now, essentially a smash and grab robbery. And speed is to your advantage when you're the smash and grab robber. And doing as much destruction as you can quickly is to your advantage when you're the smash and grab robber.

But over time, courts will look at this. Evidence will mount. He will need things from Congress. And the situation will change. I think it's particularly important to watch the courts where he is losing case, after case, after case, after case, for the very precise reason that what he is doing is illegal.

SIDNER: He has won one, though, letting DOGE get all that data from several different agencies where some people are resigning over it.

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, thank you so much.

WHITEHOUSE: Yes, I mean that's kind of a data theft.

Thank you.

SIDNER: Thank you so much for coming on and expressing your very strong opinions this morning. We appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, the measles - let me try that again. The measles outbreak in west Texas has now grown to 58 cases. And many of those patients have been hospitalized, raising a lot of concern, understandably, about how far this outbreak could reach and how high the numbers could go.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from Lubbock, Texas, where several of these cases have been - have been reported and treated.

Sanjay, what are you seeing there? What are you hearing there?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, people are frustrated, as you might imagine, Kate. They're frightened and they're trying to figure out what's next. I mean, you just mentioned the official numbers. But I think everyone thinks those numbers are probably a significant undercount. A lot of people have not yet come forward. So, you know, this number could continue to increase and we're already, even based on the official numbers, the largest measles outbreak in Texas in 30 years. So, that just gives you some of the context.

I'm at Covenant Children's here. And many of the people that we're talking about are children. And we know that 11 have been hospitalized here. There are at least six more that are suspected cases that are in the hospital. They have to send these tests out to Austin to get confirmation. They come back here. So, it takes some time.

But as you know, measles is very characteristic. So, there's a lot of people who they're seeing that are coming in with that characteristic rash that they're now caring for in hospitals like this.

When I first arrived here, Kate, I got a chance to talk to the state health commissioner, someone who's been on the ground sort of coordinating the response, and talked to her about how she's sort of approaching things.

Take a quick listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: Have you ever seen measles before?

DR. JENNIFER SHUFORD, COMMISSIONER, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF STATE HEALTH SERVICES: No. And I'm an infectious disease physician.

GUPTA: Wow.

SHUFORD: I've never diagnosed a case.

GUPTA: Thats incredible.

SHUFORD: It's because, you know, measles was declared eliminated from the United States back in the year 2000.

GUPTA: Right.

SHUFORD: Because of the effectiveness of that vaccine. And it's only now with falling immunization rates, not just here in Texas, but across the country and around the world, that we're starting to see more of these outbreaks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So as a result, a lot of hospitals are starting to prepare. Obviously here in Texas, but as you just heard from Dr. Shuford, in many places around the country where they suspect they're going to see measles outbreaks.

As I mentioned, I'm in Covenant Children's. This is a hospital that is designed to be able to take care of people with infectious diseases. So, this is a negative pressure room. I don't know if you can tell, probably, but the air actually is always circulating outside the room. So, you're not going to get air that's actually coming into the room.

And then if you open these doors over here, because it's lower pressure inside the room, you won't get air that's coming from inside a potentially infected room to the outside. There's always going to be circulating in here. It's a small sort of step, but it's important when you're trying to take care of so many patients as they are with these types of infectious diseases.

BOLDUAN: And so important when you talk about how contagious this disease really is and how serious this virus is.

GUPTA: Yes. You know, it's hard to convey that part of it, Kate. I was trying to think about this. We were in a clinic yesterday. We were at a drive by vaccination area. If one person has measles, they are likely to infect 90 percent of their close contacts if they're not vaccinated. Ninety percent. So basically, if you have it, if you're around people who are unvaccinated, they're likely to get it. I mean, that's - it's one of the most infectious viruses out there. And I think that's what makes it so scary, even inside a hospital like this, why you have to have the negative pressure rooms, for example.

And also, you know, I think it's worth conveying, again, you know, there's been 11 people already, mostly children, hospitalized here. Two pregnant women, incidentally, also hospitalized here. Many more sort of suspected cases.

[08:50:01]

That's out of the 58 people here in west Texas that you know.

So, about 20 percent of people who get measles will be hospitalized. So, this is serious. About 10 percent will get ear infections, 5 percent get pneumonias, and a certain number will die. So, it is very contagious. And again, among the unvaccinated population, very potentially serious as well, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And why it is so head scratching. It is almost entirely preventable because of the effectiveness of the vaccine, as we were just talking about with the state health director.

GUPTA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: It's very good to see you, Sanjay, and so important that you're there on the ground. Thank you so much.

Now, if you have any questions about measles, and there are a lot of questions that people do have, ask them. Scan the QR code on your screen. And Sanjay's going to be back with us tomorrow to answer those questions.

John.

BERMAN: It is so great to have him there.

So, how did a group of highly educated computer scientists become a cult accused of brutal murders? New details inside the minds of the so-called Zizians.

And the new financial offer for the people who survived the upside down plane crash in Toronto.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:34]

SIDNER: The FBI says two teenage girls have been arrested in Texas for allegedly plotting an attack on a Houston high school. According to authorities, the girls planned to place pipe bombs around the school and then shoot panicking students. The sheriff's office said the investigation stemmed from online threats they uncovered, and that they arrested the girls within 30 minutes of learning of the plot. Police say there is no longer a threat for the school or its students. All right, today, NTSB officials will be on the scene of a deadly mid-

air plane collision that left two people dead in Arizona. A Cessna and a Lancair collided yesterday morning near the Mamaroneck Regional Airport outside of Tucson. The planes slammed into each other just above one of the airports' two runways. "The Associated Press" reports the pilots on the Cessna were not hurt. The airport temporarily closed.

And Delta offering passengers on the plane that crashed and flipped upside down in Toronto on Monday $30,000 apiece. The company says the money it's offering has, quote, no strings attached and will not affect passengers rights. If all 76 passengers involved take the payout, it will add up to a little more than $2 million. All 80 passengers and crew survived that fiery crash, amazingly.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, the apparent leader of a cult like group known as the Zizians is being held without bail in Maryland, along with two other members of the group. Jack LaSota led the group of highly educated computer scientist vegans. The so-called Zizians are tied to six killings, including a U.S. Border Patrol agent, across three states.

With us now is criminologist and attorney Casey Jordan.

Casey, thanks so much for being with us.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST, BEHAVIORAL ANALYST, AND ATTORNEY: Good morning.

BERMAN: So, what makes this so-called cult unusual? Is it even a cult?

JORDAN: Well, I think at this stage of the game we are correct to call it a cult-like group. It has a lot of the traits of the - of a cult, but it still seems to be in its formative stages. I mean the most important thing, especially about this arrest of Jack LaSota, who goes by Ziz, and the group is called the Zizians, is that they have this charismatic leader. And, you know, accused of - of killings from California to Pennsylvania and Vermont.

But cults always have a charismatic leader who (INAUDIBLE) their unquestioning loyalty from the followers. And at this point we think they have about 30 followers. But other traits like isolation from the outside world and mind control techniques, strict rules and regulations for if you want to be in this group, this is what you have to do. Perhaps you have to commit a (INAUDIBLE). An us versus them mentality.

(INAUDIBLE) important because we already see them believing that it's us versus them, and that everyone in the outside world is the enemy. Hopefully with these arrests, if they continue to follow through, we will be able to shut this cult-like group down.

BERMAN: Compare Jack LaSota to people like Charles Manson and Jim Jones, leaders of cults that are - that are so well known in our history.

JORDAN: Yes, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Marshall Applewhite of Heavens Gate, David Koresh of Waco, the Branch Davidian, not only do they have that charismatic leader, but they take that extremist us versus them mentality. Whether it's based in a philosophy or a religion or an anti-government sentiment, there's always excessive zeal. And we have definitely seen that with the Zizians.

The biggest thing with the Zizians that is most cult-like is their denial of reality. Their online rants really go off on their - their rationalistic enemies. They have a denial of reality. They are going around in box trucks just trying to set up a camp and establish a base.

So, the arrest of the Zizians leader is incredibly important because once you get rid of that charismatic leader, and we have seen that if they're not put in check, with people like Charles Manson and Marshall Applewhite and David Koresh, it will snowball out of control until you have not only the deaths of innocent people, as LaSota is accused of right here, but the deaths of the members themselves. Very often these things end in a cult suicide.

BERMAN: We've got about 20 seconds left here.

JORDAN: Right.

BERMAN: So very quickly, if you could get one question answered, either about LaSota or this cult, what would it be?

[09:00:04]

JORDAN: I think it is the war they have on rationalism.