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U.S. Envoy Meets with Zelenskyy; Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA) is Interviewed about Trump and Zelenskyy Trading Insults; Hamas hands Over Four Bodies; Dr. Michael Mina is Interviewed about the Texas Measles Outbreak. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This cult, what would it be?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST, BEHAVIORAL ANALYST, AND ATTORNEY: I think it is the war they have on rationalism. You know, keep in mind, this is a group of highly intelligent computer scientists, some of whom have been shunned by society. So, this idea that there's two hemispheres in the brain and they're at war with each other, good versus evil, is the seduction for these members. We'd love to talk to these members and find out what the appeal is of this theory to them in particular, and see if we could figure out what that common thread is that's attracting them to the Zizians.

BERMAN: All right, Casey Jordan, I think this discussion will continue. Thank you so much for being with us.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump calls Ukraine's President Zelenskyy a dictator without elections, while referring to himself as a king on social media. An angry shift in tone towards Ukraine as he cozies up to Russia.

And a hostage exchange of the dead. Hamas turns over the bodies of four hostages, including two children who became the face of Hamas cruelty on October 7th, as it now agrees to turn over more hostages.

And frozen over. Bitter temperatures bite across America. What you need to know if you live down south and are prepared for brutal winter weather.

I'm Sara Sidner, with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we are standing by this hour for news out of Ukraine, where President Trump's Ukraine envoy, Keith Kellogg, is on the ground meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. The sit down now all the more important after what Sara was talking about off the top, after President Trump made a flurry of unfounded false accusations targeting Zelenskyy. Trump calling Zelenskyy a dictator now multiple times, at the same time remaining completely silent on the real dictator involved in the negotiations, Vladimir Putin. And this is after Donald Trump tried to say that Ukraine started the war with Russia, rather than Russia's full-scale invasion starting it.

These are Russian talking points. And the Kremlin today is applauding Donald Trump, saying that they, quote, absolutely agree with the U.S. administration.

Also happening amid this war of words is the actual war. Overnight, Ukrainian forces say a barrage of Russian drones struck several cities, including Kyiv.

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. Let's start there this hour because, Alayna, you just had the opportunity to speak with the president's national security adviser. What is he telling you?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, I did. I had the opportunity to catch up with Michael Waltz moments ago this morning. And I asked him, because, of course, the next turn of the wheel today about all of this, about these negotiations, about the president's criticisms of Zelenskyy, all of that is now going to be coming up soon as when, momentarily, we're going to see General Keith Kellogg meet with Zelenskyy directly in Kyiv.

Now, I asked Waltz, what is Kellogg's main message for Zelenskyy today. I want you to take a listen to what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: What do you think is the main message Kellogg needs to deliver to Zelenskyy today after all of the back and forth yesterday?

MICHAEL WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Let's tone down the rhetoric and sign the Economic Opportunity - sign the deal.

TREENE: Is that Kellogg's directive today is to get him to sign the deal?

WALTZ: Well, he's out there talking to him about a number of things, but that would be - I think that would be a tremendous step forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, Kate, there you heard Waltz tell me that one of the key priorities and a tremendous step forward would be convincing Zelenskyy to sign this rare earth minerals deal. And just to break that down for you, this is really a deal that the United States has been trying to work on to have Ukraine give a percentage of their rare mineral earths and the profits of that to the United States.

We actually know that the Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, went to Kyiv recently to meet with Zelenskyy and tried to convince him to sign this deal. Zelenskyy said yesterday that he had rejected that deal because it was asking for 50 percent of the rare earth minerals. The proceeds from that. He said that was a nonstarter and not in the - in Ukraine's best interest, but that he would continue talking about this.

The reason that deal is so important though, I know I'm getting a little into the weeds here, is because one of the key issues and complaints that the president has had, even before he took office, was that he has been very skeptical of the aid that the United States has been sending to Ukraine. We've heard him, even yesterday when he gave that speech and gave those remarks in Miami yesterday evening, Trump brought this up, saying that he wants to continue pushing for this. He wants to essentially get something out of this deal that the United States has had in providing Ukraine with funding.

All to say, I mean, this comes as, of course, they are still trying to figure out an off ramp to the war. And as we've really seen, the president's commentary potentially jeopardizing some of these talks. As you mentioned, he called Zelenskyy a dictator. He argued that he's not having elections in Ukraine. Just to point a little quick fact check on that.

[09:05:01]

Yes, they haven't had elections because soon after Russia invaded Ukraine illegally, they - Zelenskyy declared martial law, which essentially prevented them from having elections. That is something that is common. We saw the United Kingdom, for example, do that during World War II.

But all to say, to give you just a little insight into my conversations with White House officials and Trump administration officials behind the scenes, a lot of this has been brewing for days now. The president has personally been frustrated with Zelenskyy for some of the commentary and criticism he has been making. I was told it hit an inflection point yesterday when Zelenskyy said Trump lives in a disinformation space. That's really when we began to see this taunting from the president. All to say, we have to see how these conversations in Kyiv go between Kellogg and Zelenskyy and what the next step on this could be.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's good to see you, Alayana. Thank you so much for starting us off.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, to discuss this further, joining me now is Democratic congressman from Virginia, Gerry Connolly. He is the ranking member on the House Oversight Committee and sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Thank you, sir, so much for coming in this early morning with us.

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): My pleasure.

SIDNER: Look, let's talk about what we are - just heard from Alayna Treene and what she's talking about, vis a vis what Trump has said about Zelenskyy.

On the one hand, Donald Trump now being very aggressive, calling Ukraine's president a dictator, while at the same time referring to himself as a king on social media. What is happening here?

CONNOLLY: I think President Trump is unmoored. I think we are seeing his bromance with Vladimir Putin in full bloom. And it's very dangerous and reckless. If there's a dictator in all of this, it is Vladimir Putin. We just remembered the one-year anniversary of the death of his political opponent and adversary, whom he jailed in Siberia, Alexei Navalny. I had the opportunity to meet with Navalny's widow the day he died, and I - I'll never forget the pain and the - and the sorrow all of us felt with her in the death of her husband.

This is a guy, Vladimir Putin, who, you know, essentially pushes his opponents outside hotel windows. If you want to find a dictator, it's not Zelenskyy, it's Vladimir Putin. And Trump knows that. So, it's really troubling that he's going to make his bed with Vladimir Putin, and all of the trouble that's going to flow from that.

SIDNER: When you speak of the trouble, are we seeing a real shift in U.S. policy now where Trump is signaling that he wants to be friends with Russia and not with traditional allies in Europe, for example? Is that how you're reading this?

CONNOLLY: Yes. I was at the Munich Security Conference last week. We met with President Zelenskyy with - and - and a number of other NATO European allies. I think there's deep consternation and anger among our European allies at this abrupt discontinuity in American foreign policy suddenly embracing Putin and questioning the validity or the value of relationships that are long standing for the United States across the Atlantic. So, I think this is going to create huge problems as we move forward.

We need our allies in a host of things, not only in deterring Russian aggression, cyber aggression and kinetic aggression on the battlefield, but we also need them for cooperation on immigration, on terrorism, on crime, on - on economic policy and trade and investment, to create this kind of discontinuity in our relationships across the - across the pond, as they put it. I think it's only going to redound to the detriment of American consumers and American voters.

SIDNER: All right, I want to shift gears here. You were on the House Oversight and Accountability Subcommittee on Cybersecurity, Information Technology, and Government Innovation. And you said at the time, when you were on that committee, that the U.S. government needs to get on the ball and modernize its IT systems and use things such as AI to sort of help root out waste and save the American people some money. This sounds very much like what Elon Musk and DOGE are pushing to do as well. Do you agree with DOGE and what it is doing in principle so far?

CONNOLLY: No, I don't think they're anything alike. One is taking a pruning knife and carefully cutting out the fat, waste and fraud and abuse where you can find it. The current modus operandi of Elon Musk is a wrecking ball. He doesn't care what he's destroying, nor does he understand what he's destroying.

You know, you - the American people rely on their government. And when you create this kind of chaos and turmoil by a wrecking ball approach to, quote, "government efficiency," unquote, that's not achieving efficiency, that's just, you know, destroying things in your path in the hopes that it doesn't do as much damage as it does good.

[09:10:16]

That is not a policy. That is not something I think I have anything in common with. And I really decry it because it's creating havoc and going to create real harm for American people who rely on government services.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about the reliance on some of the things that Americans expect and have paid into. We heard from Elon Musk when he was sitting down beside the president in his latest interview about the U.S. not being able to pay for Social Security and what he called your health issues, i.e. Medicare.

Here's what he said about the deficit and the ability for America to continue with these programs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: If we don't solve the deficit, there won't be money for medical care.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right.

MUSK: There won't be money for Social Security. We either solve the deficit or all we'll be doing is paying debt.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Nobody's ever -

MUSK: And so it's - it's - it's got to be solved or there's no medical care, there's no Social Security, there's no nothing. That's got to be solved. It's not optional. America will go bankrupt if this is not done. That's why I'm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So, while Musk is decrying the deficit and saying that America's not going to be able to pay for things like Social Security, he is also floating an idea of giving American taxpayers $5,000 in refunds for everything that DOGE has managed to save.

What do you hear here? Do you hear that he is looking at potentially stopping Social Security?

CONNOLLY: Oh, I certainly hear an inferred threat to Social Security. And of course, the fallacy of this argument is, they never look at revenue. They only look at expenditures. If you want to save Social Security, it's a fairly easy fix. You know, raise the income threshold subject to withholding tax and you can extend Social Security by 40 or 50 years easy. And, of course, he doesn't want to talk about that. He only wants to talk about the expenditure commitment.

That's not how he runs his own company. At Tesla, he hasn't announced that whatever the price of Tesla is today it will never change, will never increase the cost to a consumer for our product. No company runs that way, and the government can't run that way either.

So, yes, I hear a threat and I hear a threat based on a false platform of, we're only looking at spending.

SIDNER: Congressman Gerry Connolly, thank you so much for coming on this morning. We really appreciate your time.

CONNOLLY: My pleasure, Sara. Thank you.

SIDNER: All right, John.

BERMAN: All right, breaking overnight, for the first time Hamas released the bodies of deceased hostages to Israel. Among them, the youngest captive in the terror attack at just nine months old.

A brand-new CNN poll shows President Trump's approval rating underwater. Three other polls see him slipping in the first month.

And warnings of an economic slowdown from the country's largest retail.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:45]

BERMAN: All right, developing this morning, a difficult day in Israel. The bodies of four hostages returned home, marking the first time Hamas released deceased captives. All other bodies recovered until now have been retrieved in IDF operations. Among those set to be released today includes Shiri Bibas and her two young sons, Ariel and Kfir. Kfir, the youngest captive in the terror attack, was just nine months old when he was taken from his home. Ariel was four years old.

Let's get right to CNN's Nic Robertson in Jerusalem.

I know this is a very somber day for the entire country. Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's a very, very difficult day for the country, not least because they have followed the fate of the Bibas family, the images are seared in peoples' mind of that moment that Shiri shielding with her arms her two young sons, Kfir and Ariel, trying to protect them as Hamas was take away, the absolute fear, that video seared into people's minds here. A roller coaster of emotion over the last 503 days since they were taken. The fate of them, the fate of the husband that was released just a few weeks ago, all of that.

And emotional as well, because the community, the kibbutz that they came from, Nir Oz, was one of the hardest hit, the most hostages taken from there, more than 70, 117 people killed or taken hostage from there. The only community that the IDF did not get to before Hamas and the other groups had left. They felt very alone.

So, at all those levels, the country grieving for them today and feeling that pain. So many people out on the streets and the bodies, as we've been saying, being taken to a medical institute for forensic analysis.

And we've heard now from Oded Lifshitz's family, saying, and let me read you the statement because we've just got it in here, saying that they now have a positive confirmation that his body was returned by Hamas, saying, "503 agonizing days of uncertainty have come to an end. We had hoped and prayed so much for a different outcome. Our family's healing process will begin now and will not end until the last hostage is returned."

[09:20:05]

And I was speaking with one of Oded's daughters at the weekend, just a few days ago, and even then she was telling me they were holding out hope that they were believing and hoping that he could come back alive. They've held out that hope, against all the negative information that's been out there. And I think today, for them, for the country, it's just so painful to go through this moment. It is a very somber day here.

BERMAN: All these photos of these children are just heartbreaking to see.

Nic Robertson, thank you so much for this reporting. Thanks for being with us.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, ahead, the measles outbreak is exploding. The warning signs to watch out for, even for the vaccinated. No, John does not have measles.

All right, right now, negative 22 degrees in Bismarck, North Dakota. That is an improvement actually from negative 30 that they saw yesterday. The polar vortex as we love to talk about that's breaking temperatures across the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:41]

BOLDUAN: The measles outbreak in west Texas has now grown to 58 cases. Many of those patients have been hospitalized and four cases have now been reported in people who say they are vaccinated against this highly contagious virus.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is on the ground in Texas at one of the hospitals where several of these patients have been treated, and he spoke to the state's health commissioner about the outbreak.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Have you ever seen measles before?

DR. JENNIFER SHUFORD, COMMISSIONER, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF STATE HEALTH SERVICES: No. And I'm an infectious disease physician.

GUPTA: Wow.

SHUFORD: I've never diagnosed a case.

GUPTA: Thats incredible.

SHUFORD: It's because, you know, measles was declared eliminated from the United States back in the year 2000.

GUPTA: Right.

SHUFORD: Because of the effectiveness of that vaccine. And it's only now with falling immunization rates, not just here in Texas, but across the country and around the world, that we're starting to see more of these outbreaks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And so what does this mean for all of us?

Joining us right now is Dr. Michael Mina, vaccine expert, epidemiologist and former Harvard professor.

It's good to see you again, Doctor.

I was reading - I always do read a lot of what you're putting on social media. And I was reading you talk - you were writing about this, and you think these numbers that we're seeing, that they could grow exponentially, even into the thousands. I mean, do you see this as a tip of the iceberg?

DR. MICHAEL MINA, VACCINE EXPERT, FORMER PROFESSOR, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: I do. And that's because right now what we're seeing is one bubble of individuals who are - have a very low vaccination rate. But measles is so infectious that as the different pockets of unvaccinated or under vaccinated individuals grow across the United States, eventually those pockets where we could think of them as bubbles start to merge with each other. So then you actually start getting transmission from one to the next. And you can get really explosive growth of the cases across the United States. And it's actually something we saw in Europe about eight or ten years ago where cases grew into the tens of thousands very, very quickly.

BOLDUAN: That - it should - it should scare everyone hearing that number because that - and that impacts entire communities. And I notice you say under vaccinated, because this is a big question that people have, which is, for adults, older adults that are - are vaccinated, have been vaccinated, children who have been vaccinated, is this growing outbreak endangering them as well?

MINA: Yes. So, if you've been vaccinated, you generally are very, very, very highly protected. However, what we're seeing in Texas, and what we've known can happen, is that even some people with vaccines can still get breakthrough infections. These might be people either who are immunocompromised or maybe people who have gone so long since their vaccines, many people got it as a baby and they might now be in their 50s and 60, that is - those individuals may start to become susceptible.

So, even if you've been vaccinated, it's important to take caution. And if you're concerned, there's actually tests that can be done to understand, do you have the protective levels of what we call antibodies or immune protection to actually help ensure that you won't get exposed and infected if you are, in fact, in one of these communities, for example, where measles is now spreading.

BOLDUAN: You also said that measles can be a canary in a coal mine in terms of vaccines. And we're talking about other potential dangers. Why? And what else does this mean we should be - be worried about?

MINA: Yes, so, we - we think about measles as - as you say, a canary in the coal mine. And that is because it is so infectious that it ends up giving us a very early signal when there are communities where the concentration of people without vaccines is starting to get to, you know, five, six, seven percent of the community, we start to see measles come about. And if those numbers keep going up in terms of unvaccinated, we'll start to see things like rubella or mumps and a number of vaccine preventable diseases that we are so lucky not to have to think about.

We just heard that physicians say that she's never diagnosed a case of measles, which would be 99.9 percent of physicians in America have never diagnosed a case of measles because it's been eliminated. And now we have to start worrying about these. So, as measles comes back, it should always be seen as an early warning sign that other viruses are going to be in tow.

[09:30:05]

BOLDUAN: And real quick, I mean, the number - we know vaccine hesitancy has been on the rise.