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Trump Administration Targeting Generals and Admirals?; IRS Layoffs Expected; Senate Set to Approve Kash Patel; Ukraine-U.S. Relationship Falling Apart?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:35]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We are keeping an eye on the press room at the White House, because, just minutes from now, we're expecting to gain new insight on today's meeting between President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and President Trump's envoy for Russia and Ukraine, General Keith Kellogg.

This comes at a tense time between Zelenskyy and Trump, a war of words breaking out leading up to these critical conversations.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Also this hour, the Senate is expected to vote on whether Kash Patel will lead the FBI, the same bureau Patel has previously vowed to dismantle, some key GOP swing votes staying quiet for now. We're following the latest from Capitol Hill.

SANCHEZ: And the Pentagon told to prep for what would be its biggest budget cuts in more than a decade, this as Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth could fire some senior generals and admirals soon. How this could impact the world's most powerful military.

We're following these major developing stories, many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar in our nation's capital, and we are standing by for a White House press briefing with National Security Adviser Mike Waltz. This comes at a critical time for the U.S. and, of course, the future of Russia's war in Ukraine.

Earlier today, President Trump's special envoy, Keith Kellogg, began his face-to-face meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Kyiv. The sit-down comes one day after President Trump and Zelenskyy traded barbs, with Trump calling him a dictator and repeating false claims, these Kremlin talking points, that Ukraine began that war.

KEILAR: And last night, President Trump said Russia wants to see the war end.

But we are now learning that U.S. intelligence sources say there's actually no evidence Putin plans to seriously engage in peace talks.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv. Nick, can you tell us anything about this meeting between Kellogg and

Zelenskyy?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it clearly has ended, because we had our first readout of it from President Zelenskyy himself, posting on his Telegram channel that the meeting was productive and he's grateful for U.S. support and that it's important that American strength is felt here, that the conversation was about the battlefield, return of Ukrainian prisons of war and effective security guarantees.

That's something that Ukraine has persistently asked for, despite the slim things that the U.S. is willing to provide. He also goes on to say that they are ready for a effective investment and security agreement with the president of the United States and that they propose the fastest and most constructive way to achieve results.

That's harking back to the rare earth minerals deal, which President Donald Trump has clearly angry that Zelenskyy didn't sign immediately, suggesting on Air Force One that, in fact, when his Treasury secretary had come here to Kyiv to meet Zelenskyy, that Zelenskyy was asleep when Bessent tried to meet him.

Now, it's not quite clear when that was. I'm sure Zelenskyy went to sleep at some point during that visit, but, clearly, there are press conferences where they are publicly seen together on two separate occasions.

So, Zelenskyy goes on to say: "Success unites us all. Strong Ukraine- U.S. relations benefit the entire world," and he thanks Kellogg for coming.

Look, this is clearly after the meeting today in which we were told potentially there might be some sign of press availability, journalists gathering at the presidency. We were told that there wouldn't be press statements afterwards. I think they're trying to salvage what they can between this long-awaited Kellogg visit here.

Look, the Ukrainians have been desperate to talk to him to get a sense of where Trump is in terms of the peace deal that has so far been a U.S.-Russia summit in Saudi Arabia, and I think they're trying to normalize things, but, look, that meeting long awaited and vital as it was to Ukraine occurring on the most appalling crumbling of U.S.- Ukraine relations over the past 48 hours.

SANCHEZ: Nick Paton Walsh live for us from Kyiv, thank you so much for the update.

Let's discuss further with Ned Price. He was the State Department spokesman under President Biden three years ago this week when Vladimir Putin began his invasion of Ukraine.

Sir, thanks so much for being with us.

I just want to get your thoughts on there not being a joint press conference after this meeting. Are we reading too much into it, thinking that they just don't want to rattle the cart any further and have any statements that might upset either side?

NED PRICE, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Look, Boris, I think it's actually quite wise that they don't have a joint press conference in the aftermath of this visit.

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I don't think that the messages that would be emanating from Keith Kellogg, the U.S. envoy, and President Zelenskyy would do all that much to reassure Ukrainians, Europeans, and all those who care about the principles that are at stake in Russia's brutal war of aggression.

If I were President Zelenskyy sitting in Kyiv today, I would not be all that reassured by this visit, to be pretty frank. Keith Kellogg was -- is at least nominally the special envoy for Russia and Ukraine, but he's someone who has been very much on the outside looking in. He wasn't in the meeting with the secretary of state and the national security adviser in Riyadh with the Russians.

He is someone who has put on the table some of the key ingredients that clearly have to be part of the recipe for Ukrainian victory and success if they are to emerge victorious in this. And my suspicion is that that is why he finds himself exiled from the inner circle. He knows what Ukraine needs to win. He knows what's required.

But it is a big if as to whether President Trump and those around him actually want Ukraine to win, whether they want Ukraine to emerge prosperous, independent, sovereign, with the means to defend itself and deter future Russian aggression going forward.

SANCHEZ: I thought it notable that, though there was no press conference, Zelenskyy seemed to be sending a message directly to Donald Trump in this readout which Nick Paton Walsh provided for us, saying that it is important that American strength is felt here in Ukraine and Eastern Europe.

Donald Trump does not seem to see it that way. Why do you think that is?

PRICE: Well, I think, Boris, the fact of the matter is that President Trump is failing to appreciate one of the key elements of this.

When you think about Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine, you have to think about the cost of action and the cost of inaction, frankly. And the cost of action, that is to say, the cost of defending Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity going forward, to be clear, they're significant. They're sizable.

The United States has contributed tens of billions of dollars in terms of security assistance, humanitarian, economic assistance. Our European partners, by the way, have contributed more. More than 50 countries have contributed, contributed to this effort, because as was a rallying cry on the part of the Republican Party and many who find themselves now in President Trump's administration, freedom isn't free. It's as true today as it was then. But President Trump is not thinking

of the cost of inaction. That is to say, what would the world look like if Russia's aggression were to be left unchecked? This, in many ways, is about Ukraine, yes, of course, but it is bigger than any one country.

It is about the very principles that have regulated relations among states since the end of World War II...

SANCHEZ: Sure.

PRICE: ... the simple idea that big countries can't bully small countries, that major powers can't redraw borders by force.

If we weren't to step up, the cost of inaction would be open season for dictators and autocrats of the world over, not only for Putin in countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, perhaps the Baltics, but also President Xi in China...

SANCHEZ: Sure.

PRICE: ... who's looking closely at Taiwan, who's looking closely at other U.S. allies and partners.

SANCHEZ: President Trump, of course, says that he wants to see a return on U.S. assistance to Ukraine, so that Americans don't feel stupid. He's proposed this rare earth mineral deal.

I do wonder about another claim that the president has made, that President Biden never tried to negotiate and end the war with Russia. He makes the case that you can't have peace without a dialogue. What's your response?

PRICE: Boris, my response is predicated on the front-row seat that I had to the effort in 2021 and 2022 in the first instance to prevent this war in the first place, the diplomacy that was conducted at hypersonic speed in European capitals, in Kyiv, in conversations with Russian officials.

I was there at the table the last time the secretary of state, Secretary Blinken at the time, met with Foreign Minister Lavrov. The foreign minister was clearly in the dark about his own president's plans when it came to Russian aggression.

In the aftermath of Russia's invasion, which was probably imminent all along despite our best efforts, there were various attempts to find a way to end this war in a just and durable way. The fact of the matter is that, in order to do so, Ukraine has to be put in a position of strength. That is to say that Ukraine has to be provided with security assistance, economic assistance, humanitarian assistance.

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There at the same time have to be costs and consequences on Russia. And then, Boris, I think the most important agreement -- the most important element of all of this is the fact that there has to be unity of purpose across the Atlantic, across the Pacific among all of our allies and partners for Russia to actually feel the pressure to come to the negotiating table.

I heard your correspondent say that some in the intelligence community assessed Russia is not feeling that pressure. Well, that's no surprise, because Donald Trump has really pulled the rug out of the Western alliance, the broader alliance that has put this pressure on Russia, that has provided support for Ukraine.

And the idea that Ukraine needs to be in a position of strength and Russia needs to be incentivized to go to the table, he has just upended that. He has turned that table over, unfortunately.

SANCHEZ: Ned Price, thank you so much for sharing your perspective.

PRICE: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Brianna.

KEILAR: To the other breaking story that we're following this hour, the Senate poised to approve President Trump's pick to lead the FBI, Kash Patel.

Democrats fiercely opposing this, warning Patel will turn the nation's premier law enforcement agency into a political arm of the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): My Senate Republican colleagues are willing -- willfully ignoring myriad red flags about Mr. Patel, especially his recurring instinct to threaten retribution against his perceived enemies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: During his confirmation hearing, Patel denied having an enemies list and downplayed his past promotion of right-wing conspiracy theories surrounding the so-called deep state.

He accused Democrats of taking his words out of context, but here he is in his own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: I would shut down the FBI Hoover building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state.

We will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN law enforcement, senior law enforcement analyst and former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe is with us now.

What are you expecting, Andy, from this Senate confirmation vote?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Brianna, I mean, I think it's -- I think what -- I'm expecting the same thing that most people are expecting, that Kash Patel is going to get confirmed today.

I don't think we have heard a single Republican senator come out and indicate any desire to vote against him. So, I think -- I think what we will see is the day goes on is, Kash will get confirmed.

KEILAR: And he's repeatedly denied having this enemies list during his confirmation. In his book, though, "Government Gangsters," he paints a number of prominent political figures as -- quote -- "the most dangerous threat to our democracy."

So he certainly has an idea of a number of people in mind. Some people would call that a list. What should we be watching for as he's taking the helm at the FBI?

MCCABE: I mean, let's call it exactly what it is. It is a list. He put the list in his own book that he wrote and published under his own name, the "Government Gangsters," or something like that.

That's not a friends list. That's certainly an enemies list. I think he was deliberately misleading about how he talked about that list when he was asked about it during his confirmation hearing under oath. I think he was deliberately misleading about a lot of things, but that's all beside the point now as he sails towards confirmation.

This will -- if he's confirmed, which I believe he will be, this is a very, very notable and odd day for the FBI, for many reasons. He will be the first FBI director ever confirmed by the Senate who really lacks any of the basic background and experiences that every other director has had, that being a significant connection to the law enforcement community, a significant legal career, or any level of leadership experience.

So -- but the one thing that should concern people the most is, despite over 100 years -- well, let's say in the post-Hoover period, right, so maybe not quite 100 years, there have been so many efforts made to put directors in the FBI who are not political people, who were law enforcement officers, judges, people who are committed to the rule of law.

This is a massive departure from that history. Kash Patel is, by his own admission, a surrogate for Donald Trump. He is a very political person. And by his own statements and behaviors, we know the most important thing to him is Donald Trump. It's not the Constitution. It's not the rule of law. It's certainly not FBI people. It is doing what Donald Trump wants.

So we're going to have to watch very closely to see how he walks this line as FBI director. If he embarks on the sort of (AUDIO GAP) Donald Trump is interested in, I think the people of the FBI and the people of America are in for a very rough time.

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KEILAR: Are there guardrails at the FBI to prevent him from dismantling it, as he said he's wanted to do?

MCCABE: Not particularly.

Many -- the guardrails that exist are in how the FBI director interacts with his boss, which is the deputy attorney general, and, of course, the attorney general herself, and then Congress, right? Typically, Congress is the great kind of brakes on FBI directors in their efforts to reorganize parts of the bureau or reprogram funding that's been given to them by Congress.

So we will have to see. I think the signs so far are not particularly good. You really don't see Congress standing up and defending their own oversight responsibility and any of the other many ways that government agencies are currently being looked at and reduced and undermined by other elements of the administration.

So the FBI director has enormous power to impact and influence the investigative -- the execution of investigative authority by the FBI. And I expect he will take that power and do exactly what he wants with it.

KEILAR: Andrew McCabe, thank you so much for your perspective on this.

And still ahead: The IRS becomes the latest target of widespread federal job cuts. So, what this could mean, because, yes, we're in tax season. And on those sweeping cuts, one group facing impacts to their livelihoods, military families. We will talk to a military spouse with 15 years of service in the federal government who was just fired from the VA.

SANCHEZ: Also, warnings of an economic slowdown from the country's largest retailer. Why bad news from Walmart could be bad news for the U.S. economy overall.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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KEILAR: Today, we're hearing that the IRS is expected to fire thousands of employees, the agency just the latest to be targeted by the Trump administration's widespread federal job cuts.

And it comes less than two months before the April 15 deadline for Americans to file their taxes.

CNN's Rene Marsh is live for us now on this.

So, Rene, what are you learning about who will be impacted here? RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Brianna, within the thousands of employees at the IRS, we're hearing there will be auditors, support workers who are involved in compliance work, and a source I was just speaking with on the phone says also revenue agents.

It remains to be seen, though, just what sort of impact this more than 6,000 people being fired as Americans are filing their taxes, what that will essentially due to the process in tax -- during tax season. We know that the Biden administration for years had worked to expand the agency's work force, also modernize its systems.

Just last year, there were employees who were still entering paper returns manually on government computers. And, also, increasing that work force was also all about improving customer service at this agency. But now, with these cuts that we are hearing are coming today and employees already getting those notices, it certainly will chip away at that progress that they had seen with their increased work force.

I will say that I just got off the phone with a union source who is starting to paint this picture for me of what is happening inside some of these IRS buildings outside of Washington, D.C. In some cases, security had to be brought in because arguments have broken out. People are throwing things, emotions clearly high, because people are coming in and finding out on short notice that they have been terminated -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Oh, my goodness.

And a lot of people might be worried about whether layoffs like these are going to delay their tax refunds. Are you learning anything about that?

MARSH: I think right now we're waiting to see what the overall impact will be on this tax season. That is unclear.

But, again, like I said this agency has been working to build its work force, to improve customer service. And now, with more than 6,000 people being terminated, most of them probationary, meaning been at the agency for a year or less, with a shrinking of the work force, one would have to assume that any gains that they saw by increasing their work force under the Biden administration would be diminished -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Rene Marsh, thank you for that reporting -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: These kinds of changes may soon come to the Pentagon as well.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth could soon move forward with plans to upend DOD. Sources tell CNN he's looking to fire senior generals and admirals who are seen as too political. We're also learning that Hegseth has ordered the military to prepare for deep budget cuts.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is live for us at the Pentagon with more now.

Oren, let's start with this purge of top brass. Do we know who the secretary of defense is looking at?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Boris, we have expected this and there have been rumors about this since even before the beginning of the tenure of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

But we now have a far clearer picture of what that list looks like because we obtained that list from two sources. Now, the list may not be definitive. It may grow, shrink or change. But it is effectively a look at where Hegseth may start the reshaping of the top military brass here at the Pentagon.

On the top of that list, General C.Q. Brown, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the top U.S. military officer. Hegseth said even before he was defense secretary that Brown should be fired. Another name on that list, Admiral Lisa Franchetti. She is the first female member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Hegseth in his book accused her of being a DEI hire.

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Another name on that list, the chief of the army, General Randy George. It's worth noting that, of the seven names on that list, three of them are women. Now, there are some names of those to be promoted, according to this list, which we have seen. None of those listed are women.

It is worth noting that the commander of Indo-Pacific Command is or would be slated to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Now, again, I just want to point out, Boris, the list not necessarily definitive and it could change. We're also not clear on the timing, although the expectation is this could happen sooner than later.

SANCHEZ: Oren Liebermann live for us at the Pentagon.

Oren. thank you so much.

We want to take you straight to the press Briefing Room at the White House right now. We're hearing from National Security Adviser Mike Waltz answering questions from reporters. Let's go there now.

MIKE WALTZ, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, good afternoon. What a month and what a sea change in our foreign policy.

In addition to what we're doing on the border and restoring American sovereignty, in addition to what we're doing in our economy and the job creation and the inflation reduction, we are bringing the world back to where it was at the end of President Trump's first term, which is a world of peace, prosperity, and looking forward and getting us out of the chaos that we have just seen over the last four years.

So, over the last month, just to name a few, I had the honor of sitting in the Oval Office as President Trump spoke with President Putin and then immediately spoke with President Zelenskyy, and both of them said only President Trump could bring both sides to the table and only President Trump could stop the horrific fighting that has been going on now for the better part of four years, and that only President Trump could drive the world back to peace.

Both of those leaders said that in back-to-back calls. And, of course, we just had our historic talks mediated by our good friends and partners Saudi Arabia. We give great thanks to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman for hosting, and sat down for the first time in years with the Russians and talked about a path forward with peace.

On top of that, and one of the things that led to that was a tremendous confidence-building measure that we had with the release of Marc Fogel. I will remind everyone the last time that we had an American released from the Russians, either we gave up a deadly spy, pressured our allies to give up a lethal killer, or we released under the Biden administration the world's most notorious arms dealer, Viktor Bout, who, by the way, had one of his main clients for arms the cartels in Mexico and Central America.

We gave up none of that. This was released as a confidence-building measure working with our great Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, and our secretary of state as a first step towards opening these talks and then moving forward towards peace.

On top of that, we have secured just in a month the return of a dozen, 12 American hostages from Russia, from Bulgaria, from Venezuela, the Taliban, and Hamas. Excuse me. That's from Belarus, not Bulgaria.

We also had -- for the first time in quite some time, we took out a senior leader of ISIS, an international financier and recruiter that the military had been trying to take out for quite some time and wasn't able to do so, frankly, because of a bureaucratic approval process.

President Trump said, take him out, and that ISIS financier and leader is no longer on this earth. We have also taken action...

KEILAR: All right, National Security Adviser Michael Waltz, who is back from discussions in Riyadh with Russian negotiators, championing what the Trump administration did there, championing hostage releases in the Trump administration so far, really just touting certainly what they see as successes here.

We will continue to follow that, and if there is anything to bring, we will bring that to you.

In the meantime, on today's home front, the Trump administration's sweeping cuts to the federal work force directly impacting military families, and it's set to derail the livelihoods of potentially thousands of them.

The turmoil that these firings of probationary employees and looming terminations and return to the office orders are causing many military families shouldn't surprise the Trump administration, because, for decades, the federal government has marketed itself as the employer of choice for military spouses, who are employed at -- unemployed, I should say, at five times the national rate, despite being more educated than their civilian spouse counterparts.

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