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Military Families Rocked By Trump's Cuts To Federal Government; White House Briefing On Ukraine War Negotiations & DOGE's Power. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: -- for military spouses who are employed at -- unemployed, I should say, at five times the national rate despite being more educated than their civilian spouse counterparts,

Military spouses and their families, of course, move involuntarily every two to three years on average.

Because of that, despite having years of service in the federal government, many of these workers we're talking about here are actually probationary employees, which is the same category of worker the Trump administration targeted in its recent first round of firings.

My next guest is one of them, Arielle Pines, who is joining us now from New Mexico.

Arielle, thank you so much for being with us.

ARIELLE PINES, MILITARY SPOUSE WITH 15 YEARS OF SERVICE FIRED FROM V.A.: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: And, Arielle, first off, I know a lot of people when they hear about these firings, they think of probationary employees as new employees. But you are someone who had recently switched from one H.R. office in the V.A. to another.

How long have you been working at the Department of Veterans Affairs?

PINES: That is correct. I have been working for the Department of Veterans Affairs for a total of over 15 years.

KEILAR: Fifteen years

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINES: -- no break in service.

KEILAR: With no break in service. And how many times have you been probationary? Because I know that you've moved a lot with your husband being in the Air Force. You've also switched from the medical and nursing side of things to the administrative side of the V,A. PINES: Yes. So I would say, with this last move that I did from the

H.R. department in November this is the fifth probationary period that I have been put on.

KEILAR: And were there other long term employees in your office who got fired like this as well?

PINES: Yes, ma'am. So there were five of us that had moved over to a different H.R. department from previous other H.R. department in the last, I would say, six months.

And especially one of them, he was -- he is a retired Army veteran disabled with over 18 years of service in the V.A. And he was also terminated.

KEILAR: And your termination letter, which was really an email, cited your performance. Had your supervisors raised any issues with your performance at the V.A.?

PINES: No, ma'am. Throughout my tenure in the last 15 years of federal service, all of my appraisals, performance appraisals have been exceptional or outstanding.

And so for them to say that it was based on our performance and that we have not demonstrated further employment in the agency was very shocking to all of us.

(CROSSTALK)

PINES: And to me, myself.

KEILAR: Certainly, that would make sense.

And you're a military spouse. I know your brother is also active duty. Your dad, who is a 100 percent disabled Air Force veteran, obviously very important in your life. What did it mean to you to be working at the V.A.?

PINES: So I have dedicated my entire adult life to serving our nations veterans and to the Department of Veterans Affairs. It was something that was my passion.

And because it impacted my entire life greatly and it still impacts me, you know, being married to an Air Force active duty airman.

And so it started when I was younger. I actually, at the age of 11- years-old, when my mom worked at the V.A. and she actually retired in 2022 from the V.A. of over 37 years of federal service as well.

She had me started working as a volunteer at 11-years-old and helping veterans around the hospital and navigating to their appointments.

And then when I turned 18-years-old, I said, this is something that I want to do. I want to help our nations veterans because I feel like they are the people who need care the most, and that they deserve it the most. And so in the last 15 years, I have dedicated everything that I have

in ensuring that our veterans are given the integrity, the commitment, the advocacy, the respect and the excellence that they deserve.

Whether that be in patient care roles that I've had whether that be assisting leadership and improvement processes and primary care with -- and then with my latest role in H.R., with ensuring facilities are able to track metrics and goals for adequate care for our veterans.

So it's very important to me, and it's -- it's something that I've dedicated my entire adult life to. And I'm just devastated by this termination.

KEILAR: That's the word, "devastated," that we've heard from so many people.

Arielle, thank you for being with us and telling us your story. We're -- we're sorry you're going through this as your family figures out a way forward. But thank you for taking the time to be with us.

[13:35:06]

PINES: Thank you. I also just wanted to state that there's a big misconception that is being told that probationary employees are brand new to the federal service. And there have been many of us that have been let go that have 15, 18, 25 years of service.

And that they didn't look at our computation dates when they did this mass firing. And I hope that that's something that they can go back to and look at. And we're able to appeal this and overturn it.

KEILAR: Arielle, it's a very good point and one people don't understand.

Thank you so much for being with us. We do appreciate it.

And I do want to let our viewers know that you can read more about this issue in my column today at CNN.com/homefront.

And let's go back now to the White House, where Michael Waltz, the NSA, is taking questions on Ukraine.

MICHAEL WALTZ, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: -- enter into a NATO summit this June with a third of our NATO allies still not meeting the 2 percent minimum, a commitment they made a decade ago, literally a decade ago, with a war on their doorstep, the largest war that they're all extremely concerned about.

But yet, its, well, somebody else needs to pay. We've got other domestic priorities. It's unacceptable. President Trump has made that clear. And the minimum needs to be met. We need to be at 100 percent in this June at the NATO summit.

And then let's talk about exceeding it, which is what President Trump has been talking about with 5 percent of GDP. Europe needs to step up for their own defense as a partner. And we can be friends and allies and have those tough conversations.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Peter?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, Karoline.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And like Ukraine, one, and an anecdote on who can talk DOGE.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We're hearing about these dividend checks that would be 20 percent back to taxpayers, 20 percent to pay down the debt, 60 percent is left. Who gets that?

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: Well the way that it works is, when you achieve savings, you can either return to the taxpayers, you can return it to our debtors, or it can be cycled into next year's budget. And then it just lowers the overall baseline for next year.

So in other words, you can just transfer it into the next fiscal window and then lower the overall spending level. And that means that you can achieve a permanent savings that way and that reduces the deficit.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And when is it that people might see those checks?

MILLER: Well, this is all going to be worked on through the reconciliation process with Congress that's going underway right now. As you've seen, the Senate is moving a bill. The House is moving a bill. The president has great confidence in both chambers to deliver on his priorities.

I'll just take this opportunity to note that President Trump has made a historic commitment to the working class of this country to fight for a major tax relief and major price relief.

And cutting spending, as DOGE is doing, and cutting taxes is the key to delivering on both of those promises. And President Trump is resolutely committed to doing both.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.

And on Ukraine, I guess this is for Mike.

WALTZ: Sure.

After the president's post on Truth Social yesterday, need to know who does he think is more responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Putin? Or is Zelenskyy?

WALTZ: Well, look, his -- his goal here is to bring this war to an end period. And there has been ongoing fighting on both sides. It is World War I-style trench warfare. His frustration with President Zelenskyy is -- that you've heard is

multifold. One, there needs to be a deep appreciation for what the American people, what the American taxpayer, what President Trump did in his first term and what we've done since.

So some of the rhetoric coming out of Kyiv, frankly, and insults to President Trump we're unacceptable, number one.

Number two, our own secretary of treasury personally made the trip to offer the Ukrainians what is -- can only be described as a historic opportunity. That is, for America to co-invest with Ukraine in their minerals, in their resources to truly grow the pie.

So case in point, there is a foundry that processes aluminum in Ukraine. It's been damaged. it's not at its current capacity. If that is restored, it would account for America's entire imports of aluminum for an entire year. That one foundry. There are tremendous resources there.

Not only is that long-term security for Ukraine, not only do we help them grow the pie with investments, but you know, we do have an obligation to the American taxpayer in helping them recoup the hundreds of billions that that have occurred.

So, you know, rather than enter into some constructive conversations about what that deal should be going forward, we got a lot of rhetoric in the media that was -- that was incredibly unfortunate.

[13:39:59]

And I can just tell you, Peter, you know, as a veteran, as somebody who's been in combat, this war is horrific. And I think we've lost sight of that, of the literally thousands of people.

And I find it kind of, you know, frankly, ridiculous. So many people in Washington that were just demanding, pounding the table for a ceasefire in Gaza are suddenly aghast that the president would demand one and both sides come to the table when it talks to -- when it comes to Ukraine.

A war that has been arguably far greater in - in -- in scope and scale and far more dangerous in terms of global escalation to U.S. security.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I do have one for Karoline.

Does President Trump have a bet with Trudeau about this USA-Canada hockey game tonight? And when there is a big hockey game on, is the president watching for the goals or for the fights?

(LAUGHTER)

LEAVITT: Probably both. I think he's watching for the United States to win tonight. I know he talked to the USA hockey team this morning. He talked to the players after their morning practice around 10:00.

And I also spoke to some folks from that team after they were jubilant over President Trump's comments to the team. I believe they're going to put out a video of that call.

So he looks forward to watching the game tonight, and we Look forward to the United States beating our soon-to-be-51st state, Canada.

(LAUGHTER)

LEAVITT: Bloomberg, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: My question is for Mike Waltz.

Can you give us a readout of Kellogg's meeting with Zelenskyy that just wrapped up, and in particular Zelenskyy publicly rejected this deal about the rare earth minerals? Where does that stand?

WALTZ: Well, we're going to continue to have -- he needs to come back to the table, and we're going to continue to have discussions about where that deal is going.

Again, we have an obligation to the taxpayer. I think this is an opportunity. The president thinks this is an opportunity for Ukraine going forward.

There can be, in my view, nothing better for Ukraine's future and for their security then -- than to have the United States invested in their prosperity long term. And then a key piece of this has also been security guarantees.

Look, `the -- the reality that we're talking about here is, is it in Ukraine's interest? Is it in Europe's interest? It certainly isn't in Russia's interest or in the American peoples interest for this war to grind on forever and ever and ever.

So a key part of his conversation was helping President Zelenskyy understand this war needs to come to an end. This kind of open-ended mantra that we've had under the Biden administration, that's over. And I think a lot of people are having a hard time accepting that.

And then the other piece is there's been discussions from Prime Minister Starmer and also President Macron about European-led security guarantees. We welcome that. We've been asking Europe to step up and secure its own prosperity, safety and security.

So we certainly welcome that. And we certainly welcome more European assistance. As I told my counterparts, come to the table with more if -- if you want a bigger seat at the table. And we've been asking for that for quite some time.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And Russia pushed for sanctions in your talks with them. And have you consulted with international partners and allies about potentially rolling back sanctions in these negotiations and --

(CROSSTALK)

WALTZ: Those -- the talks with -- with our Russian counterparts, both with my counterpart, the national security advisor, Secretary Rubio's counterpart, the foreign minister, Foreign Minister Lavrov.

You know, it really was quite broad, focused on what is the goals for our broader relationship. But very clear that the fighting has to stop to get to any of those brighter goals.

And as a first step, we're just going to do some common-sense things like restore the -- the ability of both of our embassies to function.

And again, you know, this is -- this is common sense. In -- in the foreign policy world, they call it shuttle diplomacy. We have to talk to both sides in order to get to both sides to the table. And both sides have said only President Trump could do that.

LEAVITT: Deanna?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you. And my question is for Mike Waltz.

WALTZ: All right.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The president has called Zelenskyy a dictator. Does he view Putin as a dictator? And does he want Zelenskyy out of power? I know he's called for elections.

And then, thirdly, the head of the defense committee in Ukraine's parliament just has claimed that the U.S. has stopped selling weapons to Ukraine. Is that true?

WALTZ: Well, most of our weapons that have gone to Ukraine have been part of a drawdown authority, where we've literally taken them out of our stocks and then eventually, through appropriations, started buying them again to refill our stocks.

I'll, you know, just state that there has been a lag in a lot of that process. So many of our stocks, as we look at our operations around the world, are becoming more depleted.

[13:45:07]

That's one of the reasons many people have had a lot of concern about, when does this end? How much is it going to take? How many lives will be lost? How much will we be -- how much will we spend?

As a member of Congress, we repeatedly asked the Biden administration those questions, and we never got a satisfactory answer.

Look, President Trump is obviously very frustrated right now with President Zelenskyy. The fact that -- that he hasn't come to the table, that he hasn't been willing to take this opportunity that we have offered. I think he eventually will get to that point, and I hope so very quickly.

But President Trump is, as we made clear to our Russian counterparts and I want to make clear today, he's focused on stopping the fighting and moving forward. And we could argue all day long about what's happened in the past.

LEAVITT: Regan (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes, what about --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about the IRS?

LEAVITT: Excuse me. I just called on Regan (ph).

Regan (ph), go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A question For Stephen and a question for Mike.

Steve, I can start with you.

There have been --

MILLER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- reports that Trump is unhappy with the rate of deportations, and he wants them to be higher. Is the president happy with the rate of deportations? And are there any plans to speed up the process?

MILLER: Well, first of all, we all appreciate the encouragement from the media to deport as many illegal aliens as humanly possible. So thank you.

And I will promise you that the full might of the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, the Department of Defense, and every element and instrument of national power will be used to remove with speed all criminal illegals from the soil of the United States of America to enforce final removal orders.

And to ensure that this country is for American citizens and those who legally belong in this country. We inherited an ICE that was completely shuttered. We inherited a Department of Homeland Security whose sole mission was to resettle illegal aliens within the United States of America.

In 30 days, the president sealed the border shut, declared the cartels to be terrorist organizations, has increased ICE deportations to levels not seen in decades.

And we are shortly on the verge of achieving a pace and speed of deportations this country has never before seen. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And, Mike, there have been reports that there's some underground opposition to Trump's pick for undersecretary of defense and policy, Elbridge Colby.

Have you or anyone from the administration been personally lobbying Senators to support Elbridge Colby?

WALTZ: Look, I've worked with Colby in the past. He has the president's full support to be the undersecretary of policy, which will be a critical policy arm for Secretary Hegseth going forward that will implement a lot of these policies.

And really, that's -- that's been the extent of it. I think there's been a lot of kind of, you know, breathless, I don't know, back and forth in the -- in the press. But we're full speed ahead to get the presidents team in place so we can implement his America first policy.

LEAVITT: Thank you, Regan (ph).

Mike has spoken pretty extensively. Does anybody have questions for Stephen or for Mr. Hassett?

(LAUGHTER)

LEAVITT: Nobody wants to talk about the economy?

(CROSSTALK)

LEAVITT: Sure.

(CROSSTALK)

LEAVITT: IRS. OK, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This would be for either one of you.

So we've reported, several other outlets have reported that about 3,500 people are due to be -- lose their jobs at the IRS by the end of the week.

If the goal of these spending cuts across the federal government has been to reduce the debt, why impose some of the deepest cuts we've seen so far at the agency responsible for raising revenue for the federal government?

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Well, I think our objective is to make sure that the employees that we pay are being productive and effective. And there are many, many more than 100,000 people working to collect taxes. And not all of them are fully occupied.

And the treasury secretary is studying the matter and feels like 3,500 is a small number. And probably you can get bigger, especially as we improve the I.T. at the IRS. And so -- so I think that it's absolutely something that is on the table for good reasons.

And the point is that don't just talk about the IRS. Talk about all of government, that there are so many places -- I live in D.C., you maybe live in D.C. -- where you never know nobody -- nobody's going to the buildings. People aren't commuting because nobody's doing their job.

We look back and we see that there are all these people doing two jobs while they're getting a government payroll -- on the payroll. So the point is, we're fixing that. And the IRS is a small part of that picture.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So you're saying that everybody who's being let go was doing a bad job?.

HASSETT: I'm saying that we're studying every agency and deciding who to let go and why. And we're doing so very rationally with a lot of support from analysis.

Because we're being told by a lot of people who have been let go at other agencies that they were told they were being dismissed because of poor performance, when in some cases, they haven't even had a performance review yet because they've only been on the job a couple of months.

[13:50:02]

HASSETT: Yes, I've never seen a person who was laid off for poor performance say that they were performing poorly.

(LAUGHTER)

HASSETT: OK,

KAITLIN COLLINS CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Karoline?

LEAVITT: Good point.

Sure, Kaitlin.

COLLINS: I have a question. I'll start with you, Kevin Hassett. Thank you for being here.

And then I've got a question for Mr. Waltz.

On these potential checks that you might send out from DOGE, is there a concern, as you're thinking through this, that they could be inflationary?

HASSETT: Oh, absolutely not. Because imagine if we don't spend government money and we give it back to people, then, you know, if they spend it all, then you're even.

But they're probably going to save a lot of it, in which case you're reducing inflation.

And also, when the government spends a lot, that's what creates inflation. We learned that from Joe Biden. And so if we reduce government spending then that's -- you know, reduces inflation.

And if you give people money, then they're going to save much of it. And when they save it, then that also reduces demand and reduces inflation.

COLLINS: OK, so you're not worried about it.

HASSETT: No, no.

COLLINS: To follow up on Peter's question, you wrote in an op-ed in the fall of 2023 that, quote, "Putin is to blame, certainly like al Qaeda was to blame for 9/11."

COLLINS: Do you still feel that way now, or do you share the president's assessment, as he says Ukraine is to blame for the start of this war?

WALTZ: Well, it shouldn't surprise you that I share the president's assessment on all kinds of issues. What I wrote as a member of Congress was -- was as a former member of Congress.

Look what I share the president's assessment on is that the war has to end. And what comes with that -- what comes with that should be, at some point, elections.

What comes with that should be peace. What comes with that is prosperity that we've just offered in this natural resources and economic partnership arrangement, an end to the killing, and European security and security for the world.

The president is not only determined to do that in Europe, he is determined to do it in the Middle East. And just a few months ago, we had an administration that had tried for 15 months, week after week, sitting with you here and couldn't get us to a ceasefire, couldn't get our hostages out.

Now we're at that point. We're back to maximum pressure on Iran. And we will -- we have just begun, and we will drive towards a ceasefire and all of those other steps.

I'm not going to pre-negotiate or get ahead of the sequencing of all of that. It's a very delicate situation. But this is a president of peace. And who here would argue against peace?

COLLINS: OK, so do you share that assessment?

And can I follow up --

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: -- in 2017 then-President Trump --

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: Can I just follow up --

LEAVITT: You've had two questions, Kaitlin.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mister --

COLLINS: -- an important follow up --

(CROSSTALK)

LEAVITT: All right, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So, Mr. Hassett, you were speaking about tariff revenue, and you also addressed a question about the IRS. President Trump has spoken about replacing income tax with tariff revenue, especially with all this waste, fraud and abuse that we're seeing cut. Is that a possibility?

HASSETT: Absolutely. And in fact, if you think about the China tariff revenue that we're estimating is coming in from the 10 percent that we just added, plus the de minimis thing, that it's between $500 billion and $1 trillion over 10 years is our estimate.

And that's something that is outside of the reductions that markets are seeing through the negotiations up on the Hill. And so we expect that the tariff revenue is actually going to make it much easier for Republicans to pass a bill. And that was the president's plan all along. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I have a question for Stephen Miller about DOGE.

So you spoke about DOGE. You said roughly $50 billion is set to be cut in a year of waste, fraud and abuse by unelected bureaucrats.

We're hearing this ironic narrative from the president's critics and the left-wing media that Elon Musk is an unelected bureaucrat, and he's doing all this terrible stuff.

Isn't one of DOGE's objectives to get -- get rid of the federal bureaucracy, the deep state?

And also, who was running the White House when Joe Biden was in office, because I don't know a single person who believes it was Joe Biden.

MILLER: You're tempting me to say (LAUGHTER) very harsh things about some of our media friends.

The -- yes, it is true that many of the people in this room, for four years failed to cover the fact that Joe Biden was mentally incompetent and was not running the country.

It is also true that many people in this room who have used this talking point that Elon is not elected, fail to understand how government works. So I'm glad for the opportunity for --

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: White House deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, at the podium at the White House, getting lofted a softball question about who was in charge of the U.S. government during Joe Biden's administration. Miller there taking the opportunity to lambast the press.

We did hear a number of key issues of importance from Mike Waltz, the national security advisor there, when speaking about Ukraine.

He was asked directly, who is most responsible for the war in Ukraine after President Trump indicated he believed that Kyiv, that Ukraine was to blame for the war.

He was also asked whether he sees Vladimir Putin as a dictator. The national security advisor there, essentially sidestepping those questions even when presented with some of his own writing by CNN chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.

[13:55:02]

Which indicated that he wrote not long ago when he was a member of Congress, that Vladimir Putin was to blame for the war in Ukraine, the same way that al Qaeda was to blame for the terror attacks of September 11th.

There, Waltz saying that he wrote that quote, "when I was in Congress." He says that what he's focused on now is achieving peace alongside President Trump, who he says has a goal of ending the war, stopping the ongoing fighting, preventing thousands of people from dying each day.

He says that the presidents frustration with Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the president of Ukraine, has to do with establishing a deep appreciation for the American people, for the investment that the United States has made in Ukraine's defense over the last few years.

He said that these insults from Zelenskyy are not helpful and unfortunate. He believes that Zelenskyy is ignoring a deal, an opportunity for the United States to invest in Ukraine. This deal for rare-earth minerals.

He spoke a lot about this aluminum foundry that he believes would be a great opportunity for the United States to establish some investment in that country in eastern Europe.

He says it's important for Ukraine's future to have U.S. investment on the ground there.

A lot more to cover. We're going to wrap it up and continue monitoring the remarks from the White House.

But we are going to take a quick break. At any moment, the Senate is expected to vote on Kash Patel's nomination for FBI director. Is he going to have the votes? Some key Republicans are against his confirmation. We'll take you live to Capitol Hill in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)