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FEMA Employees on the Chopping Block; Angela Moxley and Carrie Schmitt are Interviewed about Being Fired from the Park Service; Measles Questions Answered; U.S. to Import Eggs from Turkey. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 21, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: He's campaigned with the president, appeared at campaign events and things like that.

So, this is the first time the FBI has ever had an overt, admittedly political FBI director. And I think that opens up a lot of really serious concerns.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we will see how it plays out.

Andy, one other thing that we learned overnight. "The Washington Post" reporting that the first ever national database tracking misconduct by federal law enforcement, that database "deleted" was the word that "The Washington Post" used. You know, poof, it's gone. That was actually something that was proposed under the Trump administration, but now it's gone. What's the impact?

MCCABE: John, as we've learned in the last decade, so many law enforcement - unfortunate events involving law enforcement, things like excessive use of force and the like, the consent decrees over entire departments that have failed in terms of their duty to train and supervise their law enforcement officers, those sorts of data sets are crucially important to maintaining the sort of accountability that the public demands from its law enforcement professionals. And all law enforcement professionals who are truly dedicated and good at their jobs and deliver for their communities day in and day out support things like accountability because a lack of accountability undermines the confidence in all of them.

So, the loss of that data, I think, sends a very troubling signal that we are basically not watching. We are not holding people accountable in a way that we should. And that is something that every American should be concerned about.

BERMAN: And I don't know that anyone should be afraid by data or information.

Andrew McCabe, thanks so much for your help on this. Appreciate it.

Sara. SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, ahead, the anti-vaccination

sentiment helping to fuel new outbreaks of the measles in a couple of states. Doctor Sanjay Gupta will join us next.

And selling fakes for big money. Police discover a whole laboratory forging master painters' work like Picasso and Rembrandt. You'll get a look inside.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:12]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: FEMA is the latest agency on DOGE's chopping block. President Trump, as you will remember, has called the agency a disaster, slow and totally ineffective. Well, now, senior officials at the agency have been given a mandate to submit for firing a list that includes anyone who works - who worked or works on climate, environmental justice, equity, DEIA, diversity, equity, inclusion. According - this is all according to a copy of an email that was shared with CNN.

And the still vague plans of how deep and wide the cuts are going to be to America's emergency response agency has even Republicans voicing concern publicly.

CNN's Annie Grayer has this new reporting, and she joins us right now.

Annie, tell us more about what you're learning and what you're hearing now from even Republicans.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, Kate, natural disasters affect everyone. And the Republicans that I spoke to for this story, particularly the ones who states are still recovering from hurricanes and natural disasters, told me that they believe FEMA plays a critical role. Now, they may say that there is some bureaucracy or ways to trim the agencies down, but its basic function, its essential purpose of helping states recover from natural disasters and prepare for them are critical. So, they - these Republican lawmakers are trying to back channel with the Trump administration, they tell me, trying to find some common ground here about the important programs that they believe need to continue. But they said they're not getting a lot of specifics back.

President Trump, though, has been very clear, as you pointed out, about his intentions with FEMA. When he was visiting hurricane damage in North Carolina last month, he suggested that maybe the agency no longer needs to exist. Since then, an advisory council has been formed to look at ways to gut and potentially get rid of FEMA.

So now the question is going to be, is this a red line for Republicans? They have stood by and supported the president as he has gutted the USAID agency, a Consumer Protection Bureau. They support Trump's ultimate plan to get rid of the Department of Education. But what happens to FEMA is going to potentially be a different story. And Republicans are signaling that now. BOLDUAN: And one of the things - and explain this for people, because

one of the things that we have heard from governors and why they might need a different - a reformed FEMA or an updated, upgraded FEMA, but they need FEMA, because if FEMA's gone, it puts a whole new level of burden on states, on governors, on these members of Congress to respond.

GRAYER: Absolutely. FEMA is like a quarterback in these situations, but working very closely with states who know their areas and how to recover potentially best. But they need the manpower and support that FEMA brings to these emergency situations, and also the preparation and mitigation that FEMA does ahead of time to try and prevent a disaster when natural disasters strike.

So, states have an infrastructure in place, but FEMA provides so much manpower on a scale and scope that states would have a lot of trouble recover - handling that if that were to ultimately just go away.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Annie, great reporting, as always. It's good to see you.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining us now, former federal workers Carrie Schmitt, who was a biological science technician at Catoctin Mountain Park, and Angela Moxley, who for years was a botanist at the Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, all part of the park service.

You both lost your jobs. I'm sorry to hear that. Frankly, it sucks.

Angela, you wrote about how you felt suddenly losing your job through no fault of your own. What did you tell people on LinkedIn?

ANGELA MOXLEY, FIRED FROM NATIONAL PARK SERVICE JOB: Yes. Well, thank you for having me. And first, I want to clarify. I was at Harpers Ferry for 10 days shy of one year and had worked at a nearby park as a contract botanist for two years.

[08:40:10]

But I shared my story on LinkedIn because I wanted to let people know what was happening to federal workers. I think there's a misconception out there that probationary employees are on probation because of some sort of low performance issue, and that is not the case. It is simply to do with the time that we've had in the federal service. And many of us have been working on the margins of federal agencies or had worked at a different agency and were transferred, and that's merely why we were on probation.

I also wanted to make people aware of what is happening to the parks. There's been a lot of talks about the visitor impacts of these cuts to parks, overflowing toilets and park closures. But this will also impact the resources that people come to the parks to see and enjoy. The resource managers like Carrie and myself are the people taking care of these resources. And they will not be around if there is not staff to care for them. SIDNER: You also talked about the pay. Were you very well paid?

MOXLEY: Anyone in my role could be making more, if not a lot more, in the private sector. This field of natural resources is extremely competitive. We put ourselves through graduate school, and then we go on to take a series of usually low paying jobs. We're performing repetitive and sometimes menial tasks. We're working in tough environmental conditions. And we string together a series of seasonal jobs. And we do this often for years in order to prove that we are good enough to put on the green and gray uniform of the National Park Service. And so, we definitely could be making a lot more money in the private sector, but we do this job because we believe in the mission of protecting public lands.

SIDNER: Carrie, how long had you worked at the National Park Service before you got your notice?

CARRIE SCHMITT, FORMER FEDERAL WORKER: So, I started at Catoctin Mountain Park last May. So I think about nine months.

SIDNER: And what did you think about suddenly finding yourself, after all this time trying to get the job, finding yourself without the job that you really wanted?

SCHMITT: It was a shock. You know, there had been rumors for several weeks and a lot of unknowns. And to actually find out Friday was a shock. And it was really disappointing. You know, the future of the park service, I think, is strong because we have a lot of supporters in the American people. And, you know, I just hope one day I can wear the green and gray again.

SIDNER: I want to show you an image - I know you can't see it, so I will describe it for you in case you haven't seen it. At CPAC we saw Elon Musk, who is the head of DOGE, the group that ended up laying you people off, he used a chainsaw to boast about cutting your jobs and thousands of other jobs to save the American taxpayer money. He is holding it. He is going around. He is yelping and screaming to a sort of cheering crowd. Proud of the cuts that he's made. What do you think of this?

I'll start with you, Angela.

MOXLEY: Federal workers are not monsters. We are your neighbors. We are civil servants. We are serving the country. Everyone that I know that is a federal worker is working for less pay than they could make in the private sector. And they're often doing the job of two to three people.

So, we live in your communities. We support the businesses in your communities. And these impacts are going - I live in Maryland. And in the national capital region, these impacts are going to cause pain.

SIDNER: Carrie, how would you describe how DOGE is operating at this point?

SCHMITT: I honestly can't really speak to that. You know, I'm just here to share my story as a federal employee who's feeling the impacts of what is happening right now. You know, it's a really stressful time. It's been less than a week since I got notice of my termination. So, yes, I'm feeling all the emotions.

SCIUTTO: Carrie Schmitt, Angela Moxley, thank you so much. I know it's hard to talk about this stuff to complete strangers, but thank you for sharing your story with us this morning. And I hope that things get better and your future is much brighter. Appreciate you.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, an increase in the number of measles cases on the Texas-New Mexico border.

[08:45:01]

And this is causing concern nationwide.

CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is in west Texas.

You've been covering the situation there, Sanjay. We asked people for questions about this measles outbreak. Let me read you one.

Mary from Saint Charles, Illinois, writes, "I'm 59. Is the measles vaccine I was given as a child still protecting me?"

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was a common question, and I'm just a few years younger than you, and this is something that I thought about as well.

The short answer is, yes. This should be a lifelong vaccination. Usually it's two shots, as you may know. The first shot gives you about 93 percent protection. Two shots will give you 97 percent protection. And that should last for life.

Now, there's about 1 percent of people, John, who, for whatever reason, their immunity will sort of wane over time. Their immune systems may not be working as well. If they're concerned about that or if they're living in a high-risk area where you see outbreaks, you can get your titers checked, get your antibodies checked.

I was working on a documentary about transplant surgery. I actually had my titers checked as a result of that to make sure that I was still protected against measles. And I was. So, I think, you know, for most people, regardless of age, if you got a measles shot, they started giving those sort of robustly around the country in the mid '60s. If you got two of those shots, you should be well protected.

BERMAN: And we just showed some pictures of you actually getting your titers checked. I didn't know, a, what titers were, or, b, that you could get them checked, but that's a good piece of information there.

So, this is an interesting question. Why is the vaccination rate so relatively low where you are right now in west Texas?

GUPTA: Yes. This is really interesting. If you look sort of at this area of the country, or even different areas of the country, it's usually because of small pockets of unvaccinated or relatively unvaccinated people. So, this is an area just a little south of here, Gaines County, Texas, that we're talking about, where it's a largely rural, close-knit, Mennonite community. And that's where you really see the - the lower vaccination rates.

So, what you want with measles is around 95 (INAUDIBLE) that gives you that herd immunity or that community immunity that we've talked so much about in the past. In Gains, it's around 82 percent. And that's part of the problem, because when you have people who are unvaccinated and then they're interacting with the rest of the community, interacting with children, for example, who have not yet been vaccinated, or people who may have weakened immune systems for some reason, that's when you start to get into real trouble.

The vast majority of the people that we've been talking about have been unvaccinated, but there have been some people who were vaccinated. And again, it's, you know, 93 to 97 percent effective, but not 100 percent. So even some vaccinated people, especially vulnerable people, may still get infected if you're living in one of those areas.

But again, it's small pockets usually that are driving those lower vaccination rates.

BERMAN: Yes, but a pocket of 82 percent, that's just too low to prevent an outbreak there.

All right, Laura asks, "should my two-year-old grandson get his second dose?" You were talking about the two doses of the measles vaccine.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: "Should he get his second dose now instead of waiting until he's four, like he normally would?"

GUPTA: Yes, this is a really interesting question. And this has come up a lot here just being on the ground here in west Texas because a lot of young kids, obviously, they're worried about it. Most of the people who are hospitalized, for example, at this children's hospital, Covenant Children's, they're young children.

So, here's the way to think about it. I think the way that the vaccine schedule sort of came about in the United States was you got that first dose around a year of age or so, and then you wanted to get the second dose before you started school. And that's what got you first the 93 percent protection and then up to the 97 percent protection.

There are many countries around the world where you get that first dose, and then just a few months later you'll get that second dose.

So, here's what I'd say. I don't know where this person lives. If - certainly if you live in an area where there are measles outbreaks, consider getting that second dose earlier. It should still offer a lot of protection.

If not, then, you know, just make sure you're certainly getting it before the grandson, in this case, starts school. That - that's sort of the key. There's no problem getting it earlier, but the key is to make sure you do it before you actually start school.

BERMAN: I'm looking at this chart here right next to you I have up on the wall, Sanjay. You can see the vaccination rate among kindergartners gone down a lot since 2020.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: And you're going to see - you're just going to see more measles outbreaks if this number continues to fall?

GUPTA: Yes, if you look at seventh graders, for example, in west Texas versus kindergartners, you can see sort of a pretty significant change. As you point out with that chart, you've seen the kindergartner rate go down. But, you know, seven years ago, eight years ago, whenever, you know, you - those seventh graders were at the same age, the vaccination rates were much higher. So, it's going down now in time, but certainly over - over the last decade or so as well.

[08:50:00]

BERMAN: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, great to have you out there in Lubbock. Thanks so much for this excellent information.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, an Amazon delivery driver risks their own life jumping into action to help save a family from a burning home.

And turning to Turkey to help with the surging egg prices in America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Police in Italy seized dozens of fake paintings attributed to famous artists, including Picasso and Rembrandt. Police say they uncovered a clandestine painting laboratory in a Rome workshop. Officers from Italy's art and cultural police say they found 71 fake paintings. Investigators say the suspected forger has likely sold hundreds of counterfeit works of art.

[08:55:06]

No arrests have been made yet. But the stuff, confiscated.

All right, an Alabama family is lucky to be alive this morning thanks to an Amazon delivery driver who sprang into action when she saw their house was on fire. Naimah Elmore quickly alerted the family, then shot this footage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAIMAH ELMORE: I'm an Amazon delivery driver. And I - and I saw the house on fire. Hold on, let me help the lady down.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SIDNER: She - you heard her there, she helped carry the homeowners' elderly mother out of that burning house. Elmore says she wasn't planning to work that day, actually, but credits a larger purpose at work in her life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAIMAH ELMORE: God puts you where you need to be and not where you want to be. He placed you in situations where he tests you. We ask for things, and he wants to see if you're going to depend on him in those situations. So, that's why we always tested.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Thank goodness for her. Local fire officials say the cause of the blaze at this point is still under investigation.

SIDNER: All right, New Zealand has named the velvet worm as this year's bug of the year. Yes, they've got a bug of the year. Surprising many by choosing neither the prettiest nor the most useful insect. It beat out other bugs, including ants, crickets, and flies. The velvet worm has existed for millions of years. They hunt under rotting leaves, spitting poison to capture their prey. The competition had almost 25,000 votes by nearly 10,000 people worldwide. I know I voted.

All right, the political tension between Canada and the United States hit the ice on Thursday. And, oh, Canada. Canada won. Canada's Connor McDavid scored the game winner in overtime to win the first ever four nations cup. Canada defeated the U.S. 3-2. The tournament added spark because of the political tension between President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and many other Canadians over tariff threats and Trump's comments on making Canada America's 51st state.

After the game, Trudeau posted this on social media, because he couldn't help himself, saying, you can't take our country and you can't take our game. That is called shade, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Delivered best in a tweet right after that hockey match. It's great to see that.

OK, moving on.

The U.S. is now planning to import millions of eggs from Turkey. It's part of an effort to help alleviate the pain of the ongoing egg shortage on grocery store shelves all over the United States caused by the bird flu crisis.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is tracking this one for us.

What are you learning? Why Turkey?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: We're about to get a lot of eggs from Turkey. Fifteen thousand tons. That's about 240 million eggs coming to the U.S. by July. And then by the end of the year we're going to get about 420 million eggs from Turkey. We actually get eggs from Turkey normally. If you look at the numbers,

in 2022, about 43 million eggs. And then going all the way up to 2024, 71 million eggs.

But this is the most amount of eggs that we've received from Turkey. And we really shouldn't be surprised, though, because Turkey, along with the U.S., is a major egg exporter. You have Netherlands at the top, then the U.S., and then Turkey is number five.

But, of course, this is all coming because of the avian flu here in the U.S.

BOLDUAN: Right.

YURKEVICH: There's an egg shortage. Prices are higher. And the USDA is going to - saying that egg prices are only going to go up by about 20 percent this year and it's going to take a while for the supply chain to catch up here in the U.S. That is why we - businesses, U.S. businesses, are starting to import even more from abroad.

And the egg community here is actually welcoming this influx of eggs. The president of the United Egg Producers, he says that, "we support the temporary import of egg products to help ease the strain of the U.S. egg supply as we navigate this challenging time of continued highly pathogenic avian influenza detections."

Obviously, you have farmers who are nervous about what's going to happen with their flocks. Over 140 million birds have been killed in the past few years. And folks are nervous about just how very - viral this virus is and what it's going to do to the egg population here.

BOLDUAN: We've heard quite a bit of, there's a plan coming and that the White House - the Trump administration was going to approach and tackle the avian flu in a different way, they say, they are coming up with a holistic plan. Are there more details on this?

YURKEVICH: We do not have more details. We know that they are working on it.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

YURKEVICH: They're working on it at the USDA and the CDC because there have been infections in humans. But what the agriculture community has said that they want to see is more funding directed at research and surveillance, understanding exactly how transmissible this virus is, where this virus is in the U.S.

[09:00:00]

Also, there's been talk of vaccines. That's very controversial because once you start to vaccinate birds here in the U.S., that virus is labeled endemic, and then other countries are.