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Soon: Accused CEO Killer Luigi Mangione Due In NY Court; Doctor Who Went Viral Over Insurance Frustrations Speaks To CNN; Israel: Body Handed Over By Hamas Not Slain Hostage Shiri Bibas; White House Denies Plans To Take Control Of U.S. Postal Service. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired February 21, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:33:06]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Moments from now, the man accused of killing the UnitedHealthcare CEO is due to appear in a New York courtroom on state charges. Luigi Mangione faces 11 counts. That includes first- and second-degree murder for the shooting death of Brian Thompson back in December.

Prosecutors allege that Mangione held hostility toward the health insurance industry and wealthy executives. He's pleading not guilty in a state case. He does, though, have yet to enter a plea on the federal charges.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Now, today's hearing is happening as we hear more from a Texas surgeon who went viral last month. Dr. Elisabeth Potter posted a video detailing an experience with a health insurer that she says had never happened before.

CNN's Meena Duerson visited the Texas surgery center where Potter specializes in breast reconstruction to talk about why the video resonated so widely and why doctors like her feel so frustrated with the health insurance industry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stay here.

MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the surgery center where Dr. Elisabeth Potter operates on breast cancer patients. She's actually in surgery right now.

She made a video in January talking about an incident she had with the health insurance company while she was operating on a patient.

DR. ELISABETH POTTER, SURGEON: It's 2025, and insurance just keeps getting worse. I've never had this happen before.

DUERSON: In her video, which she posted to Instagram and TikTok, Dr. Potter described being in surgery when she got a message that a health insurance representative was trying to reach her about a patient who had turned out was already on the operating table. POTTER: I scrubbed out of my case and I called UnitedHealthcare, and I

was like to understand that she's asleep right now and she has breast cancer.

It's out of control. Insurance is out of control.

DUERSON: Her video has now been viewed over 13 million times across platforms and inspired other doctors to weigh in.

UNIDENTIFIED PHYSICIAN: This is exactly what is wrong with insurance companies dictating the kind of care that patients should have.

UNIDENTIFIED PHYSICIAN: They put in place systems that require physicians to jump through insane hoops to get obviously appropriate care for a patient.

[13:35:03]

POTTER: I didn't think that it would resonate so deeply, but once I saw the comments coming in, it just uncovered something that was already there.

DUERSON: Days after her post, UnitedHealthcare demanded she remove the video from her social media channels, accusing her of making false claims.

POTTER: What I said in that video was true.

DUERSON (on camera): What happened that day?

POTTER: I got a message that UnitedHealthcare had called the operating room and wanted to speak with me. And immediately, my mind went to, oh, wow, are they going to deny something for this patient?

I looked over at my partner, another micro surgeon who's there, and I said, I think if I take this call, I might make a difference for this patient.

DUERSON: They say UnitedHealthcare did not ask or expect you to scrub out and call right away. Why call them back right away?

POTTER: No one made me. That was my choice.

I thought they might deny her. Could they stick her with a giant bill that could be financially devastating? And I have seen that.

The environment that I'm practicing medicine in is when an insurance company says jump, I say, how high? And that just doesn't feel good for patients.

DUERSON (voice-over): UnitedHealthcare declined our request for an interview, but in a statement, a spokesperson told CNN, in part, it "had approved the patient's surgery and overnight stay days earlier."

But its medical director reached out to the hospital for clarification after the hospital submitted a separate stay request United calls erroneous. And that the director had asked to speak to the nurse caring for the patient.

(on camera): UnitedHealthcare emphasizes, "He did not ask to be transferred to the operating room department, did not ask to speak with the physician while she was in surgery, and never asked the doctor to leave surgery."

(voice-over): United also added, "Most importantly, the patient received all necessary care, was not responsible for the erroneous bill, and the surgery and overnight observation stay are covered by the member's plan with minimal cost to the patient."

Dr. Potter's video came weeks after UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was shot and killed.

In a letter to her, the company accused her of creating a potential life and safety threat for its employees, noting some commenters on her video were invoking and seemingly praising Thompson's accused killer, Luigi Mangione.

POTTER: I would never condone violence. I'm a doctor. I take care of people. But if we're going to talk about it, then what I would say is, it is not my fault that united healthcare had the reputation that it had that led people to react that way.

I did not promote those comments. But Americans are speaking out.

DUERSON (oc camera): Is this unique to United?

POTTER: This is not unique to United.

There are two competing interests, the doctors wanting to take care of patients, and companies and industries prioritizing financial profit. That is at the heart of insurance and healthcare.

DUERSON (voice-over): For Potter, who specializes in breast reconstruction for women with breast cancer --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

DUERSON: -- insurance is an inescapable part of her conversations with patients.

UNIDENTIFIED NURSE: Dr. Potter, how are you?

POTTER: All righty, you, guys.

This looks really, really good. And we already have a little air in there. Yeah. You're going to look gorgeous.

JONI MUIDER, PATIENT: Thanks.

I have been far more terrified of insurance, like by a power of 100 than the cancer. The cancer itself feels to me kind of manageable.

POTTER: We go through and get approval. Is this going to be an outpatient, home the same day? Are they going to stay overnight? What kind of anesthesia do we want? What materials do we need in the operating room? And insurance gets to weigh in on all of it.

DUERSON (on camera): How much of your job is this?

POTTER: A lot.

I've heard before, like, insurance shouldn't practice medicine, but they are. They are in the room. And the balance has shifted so far towards cost controlling and efficiency that it feels less like I'm able to practice the best medicine for my patients.

DUERSON (voice-over): While her video about United got the most attention, Potter's frustration is with the insurance industry more broadly and shared by colleagues like fellow breast cancer surgeon, Dr. Julie Sprunt.

DR. JULIE SPRUNT, SURGEON: We have a young patient who's in her early 30s. She was so upset that her insurance wouldn't cover the wigs that she wanted to wear while she was getting chemotherapy.

And I thought of how hard she has worked as a nanny to pay into insurance. It starts to feel like the humanity that is so necessary in health care isn't there anymore.

POTTER: I didn't go to medical school to learn how to decipher insurance plans. I went to medical school to learn how to take care of human beings. And I would assume that insurance would help facilitate that and not create obstacles.

I think there's a good place for insurance, but we've got to have a reckoning. Maybe something really good can happen. We'll see.

DUERSON: Meena Duerson, CNN, Austin, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: Thank you, Meena, for that reporting.

[13:39:35]

Coming up next, Israel vows revenge after claiming the remains of a woman returned by Hamas did not belong to kidnaped mother, Shiri Bibas. Coming up.

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KEILAR: Israel is vowing revenge against Hamas after Israeli officials' stunning claim that the body of Israeli mother, Shiri Bibas, was not one of the four sets of remains that was handed over by Hamas yesterday.

JIMENEZ: Her body was supposed to be released alongside those of her young sons, but Hamas says there may have been a, quote, "mix up."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had this strongly worded reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: These Hamas monsters also cynically refused to bring back the boys' mother, Shiri, and sent the body of a Gaza woman instead in brazen violation of the agreement.

All of Israel is united in grief. And as the prime minister of Israel, I vow that I will not rest until the savages who executed our hostages are brought to justice. They do not deserve to walk this earth. Nothing will stop me. Nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: CNN international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, has more on what happened from Jerusalem.

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NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Hamas is describing this as a mix up. In essence, they're saying this is, on their part, an honest mistake.

[13:45:05]

You've heard from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying very clearly that he doesn't believe that. He believes that that -- that Hamas is not acting in the good interests of Israel at this point and is vowing for this revenge, if you will, to make sure that Hamas pays for this.

So where is her body? Hamas is implying that this mix-up would mean it is somewhere still in Gaza. Do they know precisely where it is?

But -- but I think this is only just one of the tensions that has emerged out of all of this. It's not just what Hamas would describe as the mix-up over her body. Israelis would describe as something else.

But what -- a challenge on Hamas' narrative that the family, the boys died in an Israeli airstrike, very, very clearly now in quite extreme terms, the IDF is describing this, their deaths, as cold-blooded murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESMAN: Contrary to Hamas, lies, Ariel and Kfir we're not killed in an airstrike. Ariel and Kfir Bibas we're murdered by terrorists in cold blood.

The terrorists did not shoot the two young boys. They killed them with their bare hands. Afterwards, they committed horrific acts to cover up this atrocity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: So you have this extreme variance now between the two narratives, Hamas says, and the Israeli government.

And into all of that, the Bibas family, the aunt of Kfir and Ariel, has, in essence, gone against what the prime minister is saying, rather than calling for revenge, is calling for release of the other hostages to be the priority now.

This is what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED AUNT OF ARIEL AND KFIR BIBAS (through translation): For Ariel and Kfirs' sake, and for Yardan's sake, we are not seeking revenge right now. We are asking for Shiri. Their cruelty only emphasizes the urgent need to bring Shiri back to us.

Save the lives of the living hostages, and return all the fallen for burial.

(IN ENGLISH): President Trump, I'm asking you, please assist Israel and our family in completing this important mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: But in essence, the real question is, where is Shiri Bibas' body? And at the moment, as far as we know, Hamas doesn't have DNA testing equipment. It has had a huge number, they would say, over 48,000 people killed.

The challenge to find Shiri Bibas' body may be huge. But Hamas has yet to give more details about how they're going to reset what they are describing as a mix-up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: All right. Nic, thank you for that report.

The White House responding to reports the administration is considering taking over the postal service. Such a move could cut off service, though, to some rural parts of the country.

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[13:52:53]

JIMENEZ: Welcome back. Today, the Trump administration is denying reports about plans to take control of the U.S. Postal Service, though multiple outlets report the White House could lay the groundwork to privatize the service, which could impact how a lot of Americans get deliveries.

KEILAR: Let's go to CNN's Alayna Treene, who is live for us at the White House.

What are you learning about this, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yes, well, these reports are essentially saying that the president and his administration are seeking to seize control of the United States Postal Service and fire it's leaders and bring it more under the direct control of the Commerce Department.

Now, there's a couple things here I want to point out. One is that the White House is saying that this isn't true. The reporting is that, essentially, he would be signing an executive order soon to do this.

They argue no such executive order is actually in the works. This is what they say. They say, quote, "This is not true. No such order is in the works. And Secretary Lutnick is not pushing for such an E.O."

However, there's a couple of things I want to point out. One is that we are actually going to see Howard Lutnick be sworn into office in just about half an hour now in the Oval Office. I'm sure some reporters are going to try and ask him questions about this, so stay tuned for that.

But the other thing here is that this isn't a secret that the president has been fixated for many years now on wanting to privatize the United States Postal Service.

That reminds you, back during his first term, he actually tried to move forward with plans to do so before that got scrapped.

And then we know, earlier, before he was sworn into office, when he was still president-elect, he talked about it as well, saying he thought it was a smart idea.

We also know it came up in a meeting between him and Lutnick, who then was his co-transition chair, where essentially the president argued, you know, look, we know that the postal service is losing a ton of money.

He argued that, you know, this shouldn't be something that is subsidized by the United States.

And then he made comments kind of to that effect during a press conference back at Mar-a-Lago. I want you to take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, there is talk about the postal service being taken private. You do know that. Not the worst idea I've ever heard. Really isn't.

You know, it's a lot different today with -- between Amazon and UPS and FedEx and all the things that you didn't have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:55:05] TREENE: Now, Brianna and Omar, a couple of things. One, those were, again, comments that he made in December before taking office, and also ones that I know from my conversations with Trump administration officials that is something that is on the presidents mind, this idea of trying to privatize it.

Now, just to get into some of the context here around the importance of the United States Postal Service. One is that, you know, millions of Americans obviously rely on this for prescriptions, items, et cetera.

But one thing that is unique about the postal service is that it is committed to bringing packages all over the United States, even places that maybe some of these private companies -- like the president was referring to. Amazon -- Amazon, FedEx, et cetera -- don't want to reach, something called the last mile.

So there are a lot of concerns about what would happen if this agency, which I should point out is more than 250 years old, were no longer to be a public service and rather a private one -- Omar, Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes, really interesting stuff.

Alayna Treene, thank you, live for us from the White House.

And minutes from now, the man accused of murdering a health insurance CEO on a busy New York City street will be appearing in court. We are standing by for all of the developments, and so are many of his supporters.

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