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Arab Nation Leaders Meet To Discuss The Future Of Gaza; Thousands Of IRS Employees Fired In Middle Of Tax Filing Season; Trump Floats Tariff-Based "External Revenue Service" Concept; L.A. Mayor Dismisses Fire Chief After Devastating SoCal Blazes. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired February 21, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:33:25]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Welcome back. Leaders of Arab nations, including Egypt and Jordan, met today in Saudi Arabia about the future of war-ravaged Gaza.

Now, their -- their vision may be different than President Trump's proposal that really stunned the Middle East. Trump wants the U.S. to take over and rebuild Gaza, removing about two million Palestinians from their homeland.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: So far, no word yet on the Arab leaders' blueprint.

But a report published in Egypts state-run "Al-Ahram Weekly" said Cairo was proposing a 10- to 20-year plan that would allow the Palestinians to remain, keep Hamas out of governing or resisting, and that Gulf Arab nations would pay for it.

Joining us now is CNN military analyst, retired Air Force colonel, Cedric Leighton, who is with us here.

So this is interesting. These Arab countries trying to counter Trump's Riviera plan, which I think a lot of people saw as just not realistic anyways. But what would the alternative be?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: So that really depends on a lot of things, Brianna. This is very interesting because there's a developer in the UAE who is looking at this and saying that he can build prefab houses for about $2 billion, I think it was, to house the Palestinians in Gaza while their permanent homes are being built.

So that might be part of a -- the more concrete aspects of a resettlement or refurbishment plan for -- for Gaza.

The Arab states, the Gulf states, especially Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, have a long history of supporting efforts in Gaza. And the Egyptians, of course, as well.

[14:35:00] And they might -- may be coming up with a plan where they do something like this, where they keep the people in Gaza, but rebuild kind of in a piecemeal-type fashion, maybe from north to south or from north to, you know, one way or the other, that they could actually make that make that work.

So that's one possible way that they could respond to this. And of course, they're going to have to pay for it. And I think the Gulf Cooperation Council governments know that they're going to have to do that.

JIMENEZ: And we saw sort of the difference or I guess maybe the discomfort when the king of Jordan was visiting the White House and Trump blurted out the plans to take over Gaza, to rebuild it, to move Palestinians temporarily or on a longer-term basis.

And even the king said, well, let me go speak to some of our Arab partners. He didn't commit to it at that point.

I guess my question is, with what they come up with on a plan to move forward, how do they get around the United States and the will of what President Trump wants to happen in that area.

Which, again, would likely complicate some of the politics within some of those countries. How do you do that?

LEIGHTON: I think that's going to be very interesting to watch, Omar. And it's -- it's really hard to predict exactly how that's going to happen.

But one thing that the Trump administration or Trump even himself has said is that, in some ways, this is kind of a proposal on his part. It is not necessarily something that he's actually going to do if there's an alternative plan.

In fact, Secretary of State Rubio has mentioned that, if he can -- if he -- if the Arabs have a chance to put together a plan, they'd be interested in seeing it. That, you know, the U.S. proposal is basically a framework from which to work.

But if the Arabs can do it better or can do it more quickly, then they should go for it.

KEILAR: So if this Cairo plan, you know, the idea, keep Hamas out of governing or resisting. So Hamas has a vote here, unfortunately.

LEIGHTON: Yes, they do.

KEILAR: And so what are the complicating factors?

LEIGHTON: So the main complicating factor is, is one where you actually kind of witness this when you watch the hostage transfers and you see the number of fighters from Hamas who are still able to carry weapons, who are still in their uniforms and who are still quite active in Hamas. That's an indicator that Hamas is still there, that they are a potent force. And they are not going to leave Gaza quietly. They may go underground, either figuratively or literally, but they are going to be a presence in Gaza.

They may agree to, on the surface, leave power, but they're not going to agree to completely leave power and -- and let somebody else take over. They're going to have a say in this, and they're going to stay for a long, long time.

KEILAR: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Go ahead.

JIMENEZ: No, I was just going to throw one more in.

I mean, what do you make, of just quickly, the status of the ceasefire of where we are right now?

LEIGHTON: It's remarkable that the ceasefire, Omar, has stayed kind of on the trajectory that it's on. It's very vulnerable. It's -- you know, because of the latest developments where the Hamas provided the wrong body to -- of one of the hostages, one of the deceased hostages to the Israelis.

That, of course, has upset the Israelis. And that is the kind of thing that could break any of these ceasefires, any of these ceasefire developments.

But I think that, for right now, it's fairly remarkable that the ceasefire has stayed in place. Discussions for the second phase are supposed to start fairly soon.

If that happens, if that progresses, there's a chance that the ceasefire could last a little bit longer.

KEILAR: Yes. Let's not forget there are many more living hostages, IDF-associated hostages or soldiers, including Israeli-Americans.

LEIGHTON: Exactly.

KEILAR: Cedric, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, some IRS employees are warning now of potential late refunds. Come on!

JIMENEZ: No, thanks.

KEILAR: The agency is slashing thousands of jobs. No, thank you, is right.

[14:38:49]

Next, we're going to talk with someone who used to run the agency. Get some more information.

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[14:43:28]

JIMENEZ: Welcome back, everyone. President Trump's mass firings at the Internal Revenue Service may be the first step toward abolishing the nation's tax collection agency.

Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said this week the president wants to do away with the IRS and replace it with what it calls an External Revenue Service, funded by tariffs.

Now, already, the president slashing of federal agencies has ignited chaos and heightened fear, in some cases, about what happens next, not only for the fired employees but for millions of U.S. taxpayers, which, if you didn't know, tax season is here.

Here to talk more about the impact of the IRS cuts is Mark Everson. He was IRS commissioner during the George W. Bush administration and is now vice chairman of Alliantgroup.

Mark, all right, let's just start with, we have seen thousands of probationary employees, at least at the IRS, fired from the from the agency. What is the realistic impact on everyday Americans when something like that happens?

MARK EVERSON, CEO, ALLIANTGROUP & FORMER IRS COMMISSIONER UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH: Let me start by saying the president was very clear he wanted to make the government more efficient and more responsive to people. That's a -- that's a praiseworthy endeavor. I get that. That was part of the election.

At the same time, you'll recall that under President Biden, there was an enforcement build at the IRS was 80 billion that was added, and disproportionately towards enforcement.

That received no, no Republican support. So it's -- it's hardly surprising that you now have adjustments taking place at the IRS.

[14:45:00]

The real issue here, though, and it runs to the system to access that that DOGE wanted at treasury on the payments, and it runs to the computer access at the IRS, is the ability to deliver the many transactions.

As you're indicating, over 200 million people are working on their -- on their taxes right now. I hope you are.

JIMENEZ: I actually already finished, so I'm way ahead of schedule.

EVERSON: Good. Good.

But so, I think those of us who have -- have held the position of commissioner, we -- we feel, to a person, that what you shouldn't be doing is you shouldn't be rushing on any adjustments you do with the IRS.

You -- they've got a new nominee. The president has identified former Congressman Billy Long, asked him to run the agency. I would let him get in there and see what adjustments they want to make.

But because there is some risk, operational risk of doing things right now. It's sending, obviously, a tremor through the agency, even if the people who have been laid off this week don't directly work on submissions processing.

JIMENEZ: So it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, cuts or at least relooking at -- at some potential inefficiencies, good thing right now.

But what do you make of -- of I guess the way DOGE has gone about its cuts, the suddenness of it, in some cases, trying to access certain sensitive data regardless of what season we're in? It's been pretty fast.

EVERSON: And they've moved very quickly. And -- and I do caution in this area, the systems access in particular.

But the treasury secretary has -- has worked out an accommodation and says, yes, you can look at the systems, but you can't have access. It's read only. And so I think they're very clear that they don't want people going in and tinkering with systems.

And nor do they want, at the -- that's on the payment systems. There's $5 trillion or $6 trillion that goes out to Social Security and everything else.

And then on the IRS systems themselves, same sort of thing. They're saying very limited. Be able to do your research. And by all means, they want help improving the technology.

And the IRS, to its credit, has been working on that the last several years, and they've made some strides.

But now, to your point, what's happened is several thousand -- I think it's 6,000 or 7,000 people who've joined on the enforcement side are now being let go.

And I just think the better thing would be to wait until we get Congressman Long in there, get him up before finance get him confirmed -- he's on the Trump team -- and then work out what the right approach is.

JIMENEZ: And I want to ask you, too, about, you know, I mentioned it before coming to you because the Trump administration has been talking about abolishing the IRS altogether, replacing it with what Lutnick described as the External Revenue Service, powered by -- by tariffs.

EVERSON: Right.

JIMENEZ: You, of course, would need -- would need higher everyday prices to sort of balance out the lack in taxes. But when you look at how much America does collect in taxes per year,

where do you even begin to -- if someone walked up and said, hey, I want to turn this into an External Revenue Service. Where do you even begin?

EVERSON: That's a very tall order. And the tariffs would operate independently of the IRS. They come in ultimately now, but they're not collected by the IRS directly.

And this would take congressional action, and it would be a long term process.

So while the president and the Congress can discuss these matters, we still have to pay our taxes, and people have to get that paperwork in or file electronically by April 15th.

So let's not disturb this apple cart while that very important obligation of citizenship is taking place.

JIMENEZ: You heard it -- you heard it here first. But you're going to hear it often, not just because you're a former IRS commissioner: Pay your taxes.

Good to see you. Thanks for being here.

EVERSON: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: All right, everyone, we'll be right back.

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[14:52:59]

KEILAR: We do have breaking news. Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass has just terminated the city's fire chief in the wake of last month's devastating wildfires.

JIMENEZ: CNN's Natasha Chen is standing by with the latest.

Natasha, what do we know right now, why is the mayor announcing this right now?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar and Brianna, the mayor is about to start a press conference to talk about this in more detail. This follows a press release that Mayor Bass sent out within the past hour, announcing the firing of Los Angeles Fire Department Chief Christine Crowley.

Mayor Bass named two issues in her press release. One is that on the morning that the fire started, she said, "We know that 1,000 firefighters could have been on duty in the morning the fires broke out, were instead sent home on Chief Crowley's watch."

Furthermore, the second issue, a necessary step to an investigation, was the president of the fire commission telling Chief Crowley to do an after-action report on the fires. The chief refused. These require her removal.

And so now there is an interim chief in place, a veteran of the department. We're hoping to learn more details about the mayor's decision here as she steps in front of cameras very soon.

But to put this into context, there has been a lot of political back and forth between the fire -- the fire department leadership and the city of Los Angeles over the past months and years.

The chief, Chief Crowley, had said that they had been underfunded for the past decade. She said the city had slashed the fire department's budget by more than $17 million compared to the year before, severely crippling, in the chief's opinion, their ability to maintain fire apparatus, to have enough staff on duty.

And so, of course, there is a lot of finger pointing and blame going back and forth.

The fire commission, civilian fire commission, the leadership there said, despite all of this, it's unlikely that the number of staff that the fire department, even fully staffed, could have, you know, gotten a fast control over the fires the day the -- those fires broke out because of the severity, the scale, the magnitude of those fires that happened so quickly with hurricane-force winds.

[14:55:17]

So we're about to hear a lot more on this. But this is just the latest in this political firestorm -- Omar and Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, Natasha Chen, thank you.

And coming up, accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione's court hearing just minutes long. This is a video moments ago of him leaving court. We're learning more though about what happened inside.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

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[15:00:09]

KEILAR: A key test to President --