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Macron Arrives at White House; Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL) is Interviewed about Ukraine; Millions of Federal Workers in Limbo; Trump Names Bongino as FBI Deputy Director; Peter Navarro is Interviewed about Digital Service Taxes. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 24, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: SAG Awards last night.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, he's diving out more shock and awe at home. Right now at the White House, President Trump is preparing to meet with French President Emmanuel Macron, ahead of the call with the G-7. Macron is fighting for European leaders to get a place at the table in the Ukraine peace talks, as President Trump has pivoted towards Russia.

This morning, National Security Adviser Michael Waltz said Ukraine becoming a NATO member is not back on the table. We have also learned a U.S. deal with Ukraine to access its rare earth minerals is in the final stages. A senior official confirming the deal is part of a wider negotiation to try and end the war.

All of this comes on the same day that Ukraine is making three - marking three years since Russia invaded their borders. Other key European leaders are in Kyiv today. Missing from the picture there, U.S. officials.

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House.

A lot going on. What can you tell us about what we're expecting in this call between Macron and President Trump?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, look, Sara, I mean today is an incredibly momentous day for the peace talks between Ukraine - or trying to find an end to the war between Ukraine and Russia, and really the start of what is going to be a momentous week with, you know, not only having French President Emmanuel Macron at the White House today, but later this week we're also going to see the U.K.'s prime minister, Keir Starmer, come to the -- Keir Starmer, excuse me, come to the White House as well to meet with the president.

Now, just before eight. 8:00 a.m. was when that G-7 call among G-7 leaders was slated to take place, we saw - I watched the French president come to the White House. He entered the White - West Wing, gave a quick wave to reporters, and then went inside. I'm told he joined, of course, in person that call with the president. A very strategic move on his part.

And then later today as well we're going to see Donald Trump and Macron have this bilateral meeting in the Oval Office. And then at 2:00 p.m., they are expected to host a joint press conference where you're going to have a lot of reporters asking a series of questions on this.

But you're exactly right, Sara, I mean the key thing that we know that not just Macron but European leaders and the United States NATO allies are really looking for is to try and get a seat at the table in these talks. We saw a ton of concerns from European allies when we saw the United States delegation in Russia meeting in Riyadh, Ukraine's delegation was not at the table, European leaders not having a seat at that table. So, that's going to be a big part of this.

Now, hanging over all of this as well is that question of, how can Europe and the United States and allies who support Ukraine in this war, how can they continue to ensure that Ukraine doesn't get the bad end of a deal here? And part of that has been a question of, should Ukraine join NATO? They argue that is one of the cheapest ways to ensure Ukraine's prosperity and security.

We did hear National Security Adviser Michael Waltz address this this morning. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: That is not back on the table. I do not see the United States having Ukraine enter into NATO.

We are absolutely committed to NATO writ large. Our Article Five treaty agreements with other NATO countries. But the security guarantees for Ukraine is a different conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Sara, that - what he said there at the end about those security guarantees from different European countries, that has been such a crucial part, I'm told, in my conversations with White House officials, those involved in some of these talks, that they are looking for from this meeting with Macron today, but also Starmer later this week. They want Europe to step up on their end and ensure that if they do find an off ramp to this war, that they will be in responsibility and really held accountable for some of those security guarantees.

So, something we'll be watching for in those meetings.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Alayna Treene, I don't know if you know this, but you have a halo on your head this morning, and we're here for it on this Monday, making us all feel a little bit better about the world today. All right, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now is Congressman Mike Quigley, a Democrat from Illinois, the co-chair of the Congressional Ukraine Caucus.

Congressman, I don't know if you heard the national security advisor say just moments ago, we played the sound, NATO membership for Ukraine not on the table, reiterating that the United States is basically giving Russia one of its key demands before negotiations really even start with Ukraine.

Your view?

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Yes, we're normalizing relations with Russia without getting any concessions is diplomacy 101 a mistake. Negotiating in public, another mistake. But it's hard to be surprised that President Trump can't acknowledge that Russia invaded Ukraine.

[09:05:08]

He questioned Zelenskyy's legitimacy despite the fact his poll numbers are better than Trump's and he was elected and he doesn't question Putin's legitimacy. I mean this is a man who didn't sprout from Young Russians for Democracy. He came from the KGB. A ruthless tyrant who kills his opposition. So, if we can't agree on that, they have a long way to go to do the right thing for Ukraine and NATO.

BERMAN: So, the United States keeps pushing Ukraine to make some kind of a mineral deal. This was a deal that President Zelenskyy rejected about ten days ago because at the time it was believed it had no security guarantees from the United States. The United States keeps on pushing and there have been talks there.

"Bloomberg," a few minutes ago, came out with a report. They call it an exclusive that the U.S. will commit to a free, sovereign and secure Ukraine and a lasting peace as part of a mineral deal. The U.S. would agree to a durable partnership, will signal intent to invest in Ukraine, and also say that those who acted adversely to Ukraine should not benefit from it's reconstruction.

What would you - your view be of that kind of an agreement?

QUIGLEY: Well, first, I'm not sure I would trust the Trump administration on anything like that. If Ukraine - if you're Ukraine, you've got to remember from the Budapest era that, you know, those guarantees weren't backed up either. So, finally, let's talk about that deal. They want $2 for every $1 in aid. Churchill didn't say to Europe just before we landed in Normandy, what - you're going to pay us twice the amount of money we spend to liberate France and Europe. It's extraordinarily at a difficult time.

So - and finally, why are we telling Ukraine they have to pay for this twice? You could get a better deal from Tony Soprano. At the same time, you're not telling Putin, you have to pay reparations. Typically, the aggressor has to pay for reparations. Otherwise, Ukraine's going to have to spend, what, hundreds of years literally to pay back an agreement for what we should be doing to support them, to support democracy in the world.

BERMAN: A couple other news items I want to ask you about.

Overnight, the president named conservative podcaster Dan Bongino as the deputy director of the FBI. What's your view of that appointment?

QUIGLEY: Yes. Look, I think the appointments to the intelligence community as a whole, including the FBI, are going to make us less safe. Overall, they lack extraordinary any levels of experience. They're totally in agreement with the president when it comes to going after those he doesn't like, politicizing them, weaponizing them, making us less safe, looking at the whole of them, from Tulsi Gabbard on. I doubt any of our allies will trust us to share information that keeps us safe. All in all, some of the worst picks in our lifetime.

BERMAN: Elon Musk sent an email out - or directed an email to be sent out to all federal employees, telling them they had to list five things they accomplished in the last week or risk getting fired. They have to do that by midnight tonight. What do you think about that?

QUIGLEY: Yes, I want to see the air traffic controllers have to explain what they do to keep us safe. I want to have to - I want to make doctors who keep our veterans safe and healthy at our hospitals have to explain what they do and why it's so important. Our FBI agents, our food inspectors. You know, I tell folks, try not to think about food inspectors when you bite into another sandwich with boars head, when your life could be at risk. So, it's a hypocrisy for a guy who gets billions of dollars in subsidies and grants from the federal government, I want him to explain and rationalize all that and why he's attacking agencies which are currently investigating him and his entities.

BERMAN: Congressman Mike Quigley, thanks for coming on this morning. Appreciate your time, sir.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, some of President Trump's own cabinet secretaries pushing back against Elon Musk's latest ask of federal workers at the Pentagon. And Pentagon, top intelligence officials telling staff to not reply to Musk's email, telling them to justify their jobs or lose them.

And President Trump names right wing podcaster Dan Bongino to be the deputy director of the FBI. Exactly not what the now FBI director said that he was going to do.

And the takeover of the Kennedy Center in Washington sparking backlash. Some artists say they're canceling shows because of it. Kamau Bell, though, says he's not canceling. He's our guest to talk about why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:14:24]

BOLDUAN: A midnight ultimatum for millions of federal workers. Elon Musk, over the weekend, demanded that all federal employees list in an email five ways that they were productive in the last week or face termination. And then this happened. Some of Trump's own agency heads at the Pentagon, FBI, State, DHS, Department of Energy, and more telling employees to ignore Musk, at least for now.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is at the Pentagon. She's got much more on this.

And, Natasha, then Elon Musk responds again saying those who do not take this email seriously will soon be furthering their careers elsewhere.

[09:15:02]

What are you hearing from there?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, that really remains to be seen, right? I mean I've been talking to defense officials all weekend who say that they have been trying to scramble to figure out what exactly to tell employees about how to respond to this email. But it is far from clear that anyone who does not receive - who does not respond to that email by tonight at midnight is actually going to lose their jobs because we are seeing multiple agency heads push back against this directive from Elon Musk.

In fact, we have seen directives go out from the Pentagon, the FBI, the State Department, and even HHS telling employees not to respond to this email until they can figure out exactly what OPM is looking for here. In fact, HHS actually initially told employees to go ahead and respond to the email before then reversing themselves.

But here at the Pentagon I can tell you that late yesterday the department wide directive came down from the acting undersecretary for personnel and readiness, Darin Selnick, and it said very explicitly that the department, and not OPM, is going to be making decisions on who keeps their job. He said, quote, "the Department of Defense is responsible for reviewing the performance of its personnel and will conduct any review in accordance with its own procedures. When and if required, the department will coordinate responses to the email you have received from OPM. But for now, please pause any response to the OPM email titled what did you do last week?"

So, a very clear message here, not just from the Department of Defense, but also from the FBI, from the director of the FBI, Kash Patel, who has been very sympathetic, of course, to Elon Musk and DOGE in the past, saying, look, we are going to make our own personnel decisions here. Kash Patel sent out a very similar email from his perch as FBI director over the weekend, saying, pause on any responses because it is up to us, through the director's office, to determine who is going to keep their jobs.

But for now, defense officials still trying to spend the day here figuring out what exactly the parameters are. Do employees actually need to respond to this or risk some kind of adverse action by the Office of Personnel Management? That still remains to be seen here. But it thrust this department and other departments across the federal government really into chaos over the weekend.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean, and it's not over yet, that's for sure, today.

Thank you, Natasha.

John.

BERMAN: All right, overnight, President Trump tapped conservative podcaster Dan Bongino as deputy FBI director. He does have experience in the Secret Service, but not the FBI. And CNN learned that newly confirmed FBI Director Kash Patel had told agents the deputy would come from within its ranks.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is here.

And that's really only part of it, Katelyn.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, the deputy director of the FBI is almost always someone who comes from within the agency, who knows how the FBI works and is an active career employee. Not so with this choice of Dan Bongino, with his choice being the pick here for the Trump administration.

It goes in the face of what Kash Patel had been telling people, not only agents across the FBI, but also what was understood to be happening within the agency. Recently he had told people, according to our own Evan Perez's reporting, that the person who was serving as the acting deputy director during this transition phase with Patel coming in was going to likely be the pick to take on this job in a more permanent role and manage the force of the FBI on a day to day basis.

But then, things changed. Things changed whenever the acting leadership of the FBI, waiting for Patel's confirmation, went up against the White House, who wanted the names of all of the agents that had worked on January 6th cases to be handed over. There's now a lawsuit blocking that. And so, one of these - the way that this is working now is that Kash Patel is looking like he is not fulfilling what he promised.

One of the statements out there as well is from the president of the FBI Agents Association writing to members over the weekend, saying that they had met with Kash Patel last month. And during that meeting he said, or they said, "the FBI deputy director should continue to be an on-board, active special agent as has been the case for 117 years for many compelling reasons, including operational expertise and experience, as well as the trust of our special agent population. Director Patel agreed."

But that's not who the Trump administration is ultimately going with. Instead, they're selecting a conservative podcaster, media figure, a former cop, former Secret Service agent, not someone who has any experience with the FBI or running a group of individuals working for the federal government of this size.

John.

BERMAN: And going against tradition and also going against what, who we're being told, what Kash Patel had said earlier.

[09:20:02]

All right, Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much for that.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Donald Trump applauds an Apple promise, a $500 billion investment in the United States. Are tariffs truly leading to more jobs though.

And the impact of Trump's Pentagon purge. With senior military leaders out, concerns are growing over readiness and future leadership. Could these moves actually impact national security? We will discuss, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:02]

BOLDUAN: President Trump putting out a new executive order he says is aimed at protecting American companies from what he calls overseas extortion. The move involves digital taxes. Digital service taxes are fees levied against American tech giants, like Apple and Google, Meta and Amazon. The president's now directing the U.S. Trade Representative office to relaunch investigations into those taxes that were initiated during his first term, and also investigate any additional countries that use a digital tax, quote, "to discriminate against U.S. companies," according to a memo from the - from the White House.

Let's talk about this and the implications. Joining me right now is the senior trade and manufacturing adviser to President Trump, Peter Navarro.

Peter, thanks for coming back in.

This new EO, talk to me about this, because lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have said for a long time that they think these taxes disproportionately harm American companies. But what's the action that the White House is going to take now against countries, because there are lots of them, that have enacted these policies?

PETER NAVARRO, SENIOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING ADVISER, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: Kate, you're absolutely right that this is not a left or right issue. It's an American issue. And what these countries are doing is discriminating against our biggest tech companies. And they do it in a way where this DST, the Digital Service Tax, only applies to the very largest companies. And it's always the American companies. And, meanwhile, they use them to - to promote their own national champions inside the country. Effectively, they steal our tax revenues from us. And here's how this works. The - the DST basically taxes the revenues

in these companies in their - in their countries. And those are then deducted from profits that the companies would otherwise pay corporate taxes on here. And it's just - it's just outrageous.

And this has been a contagion. It started in France in 2019. They put on a 3 percent tax. President Trump immediately cracked down on that. And they backed off. And there was negotiations. But then, in the - the last four years, the Biden administration kind of let that go. And there's been a contagion. This is what we worry about here. It started with France, but now it's Turkey. Spain, you've got it spreading to Africa now, it's spreading to Asia. And the danger here is that these things are going to be used in a punitive way to punish.

And who's involved? You got - what are digital services? We should ask that - that question first. It's like Amazon with its cloud computing, its online marketing. Meta with its - with its social media. Google with its digital advertising. Things like that. And it's - it's literally billions of dollars.

So, the boss says, that's not going to happen anymore. He embraces what we call the philosophy of reciprocal trade. So, if they're going to harm us, we're going to respond in kind with tariffs until they back off.

And I think these countries, Kate, are going to learn that the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and President Trump's strength here is - is going to save American taxpayers billions of dollars.

BOLDUAN: Let's see what the trade office - the Trade Rep's office does with this.

Let's talk more about the impact of tariffs, because the University of Michigan's latest survey on consumer sentiment came out showing that sentiment declined in February. It was the second consecutive month, and it was down 10 percent from January. And the survey's director, Peter, said that the broad decline that they saw was, the way they put it, was "in large part due to fears that tariff-induced price increases are imminent." So, more consumers are saying here that they don't believe what you are saying, that tariffs imposed will bring prices down.

So, what do you say to those consumers?

NAVARRO: Kate, I've been watching - watching your coverage, and I know your pollster is coming on and talking about how things are bad for Trump and this and the other thing. But the context here is that we're - we're just a little more than 30 days in, right? And there's just a lot of bad stuff that we're going to have to work through that was created with overspending in the Biden administration. And that's going to weigh down on things like consumer sentiment.

And look, there's a - there's a strong media campaign out there by the people who don't want tariffs and make people believe that somehow there's going to be inflation. I would just remind you of the conversation we had the last time. This was the same dialog we had. Everybody's warning about inflation, recession and the sky was going to fall. And all we had, Kate, and this is just fact, is we had price stability, strong growth and, importantly, real wages went up, which gave people more purchasing power.

And so, if you just go through the adjustment process, it's a complex one in terms of economics. But the first thing that happens when a tariff's imposed is that these big countries that need to export into this market, they lower their prices.

[09:30:06]

And then as the trade deficit comes down, the dollar gets