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Trump and Macron Take Questions from Reporters; Macron: Any Peace Deal Must be Assessed, Checked and Verified; Trump: Want a Ceasefire in Ukraine First, Then a Full Peace Deal; Some Federal Agencies Tell Staffers to Ignore Musk Email. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 24, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): ... support on the ground. The question is whether or in what form the U.S. will contribute. And during our discussions, and during the discussions with Russia, we've understood that this would be acceptable to Russia. And that's a very important area of progress.

And that means that in this context, the Europeans will shoulder their part of the burden, their share of the burden. We have a strong alliance that we've built over the decades. We have our solidarity, and we have deterrence capacities.

What does it mean? Would it be dangerous if there is an agreement signed by Ukraine and Russia, thanks to the efforts of President Trump? And if we provide the guarantees and Russia violates the agreement, then it would be in conflict with everyone who is engaged in the peace process. And that is a change. That was something we did not see in the past. That's not what we saw in 2014.

So that is the real change that we're marking. We have this deterrence capacity on the American side. We have the capacity for engagement on the European side, and that's something we're going to continue working on together. It's not dangerous, but it's credible. It's less dangerous than things that could happen in the long term.

And I think this is what we need to do to ensure security. And I say this very clearly. We're also talking about security for Europeans. I've been saying this for weeks now. If we do not guarantee the security of this territory within Europe, then how can we guarantee our own security for one and all?

We live just 1,500 kilometers from Ukraine, and the Germans and Polish are even closer. So our collective security is important. We need to answer this call for Europeans to be more engaged, and Americans will be there still in solidarity. Europeans are working for their collective security. But I really think this was a turning point today in our discussions.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Emmanuel, thank you very much. Great job. And it's been wonderful being with you. Say hello to your beautiful wife. And we will see you again soon. We'll be speaking often. We'll get this thing worked out. We're going to get it done. So important. And great job.

MACRON: Thank you.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: And you all have been watching a press conference with President Donald Trump and the French President Emmanuel Macron, where they took a number of questions on a whole host of different fronts, but mainly in regards to security around Ukraine and potential negotiations and prospects of what any negotiations for a lasting peace would look like. We've got a team of experts and correspondents with us, as well.

I've got Nick Paton Walsh, Melissa Bell in Paris. Kim Dozier is a CNN Global Affairs Analyst, she is here with us. Colonel Cedric Leighton, as well, along with Alex Marquardt.

So let's just start in the room, Kim. I'll start with you. We heard a lot of potential ideas floated, but I think the one thing that stood out to me came from the French President Emmanuel Macron, that any deal that is made here would need to come with then security assurances because they want a deal that could potentially last. I wonder how that struck you.

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Security assurances specifically from the United States, which is repeating what the British Prime Minister said, what President Zelenskyy in Ukraine has said, basically sending the message to Donald Trump, we need the U.S. to join us, too, in anteing up some sort of guarantees.

And at this point, the rare earth minerals agreement that the U.S. is trying to get Ukraine to sign doesn't seem to have any mention of future pledges of help with security. And that's why I think the French President then brought up the idea of, so we have to send in peacekeeping forces on the ground because that's one major way to keep Russia from invading again because the two Minsk agreements certainly didn't do it.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: He's trying to appeal to Trump, Macron is, this idea of peace through strength. Right? Saying to him, he was asked, what advice will you give Trump?

I will never give advice to Trump. You know, he's very deferential, he's very friendly with him, but he sort of gave a warning, Cedric, and it was really interesting. He said, in 2014, our predecessors negotiated peace with Putin, but because of lack of security guarantees, he violated the peace.

It's almost in a way, he's saying, you might be setting the stage for Russia to do this again, and that's something that really, Trump certainly does not want to be known for.

[15:35:00]

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Absolutely, Brianna, and you know, it's very interesting because when you look at the intelligence reports on what Russia might do next when it comes to a peace agreement of this type or a ceasefire agreement of this type, it's very clear that the Russian intention is to continue their efforts to subvert Ukraine.

In essence, what they want to do is, OK, well, a possible scenario here is that they will stop the fighting if there's an agreement that is reached but then prepare for their next efforts to subvert the Ukrainian regime. That could mean moving in troops like they tried to do in, you know, three years ago, or it could mean something more subtle, you know, where they take over the government through other means.

Those are the kinds of things that could happen here, and they have to be, anybody who signs onto a peace agreement or a ceasefire agreement of this type has to understand that the Russians' goal -- Russia's goal has not changed. They still want to subvert Ukraine. They still want to take it over as either part of their country like, you know, almost like Belarus or have it an adjunct semi-ally, semi-satellite state, so that's kind of what we're looking at here. And, you know, those who walk into this effort need to really understand that the Russian intentions have not changed.

JIMENEZ: And I want to bring in Nick Paton Walsh, who I believe is with us from Kyiv as well. And Nick, you know, one of the things we heard over the course of this was this floating of potential peacekeepers on the ground at some point, Macron even saying that any danger at this point would pale in comparison to danger that could potentially come later on.

I wonder what stood out to you as far as the realities of what, sure, a bilateral of two leaders standing together may project a lot of optimism, but the realities of what we have heard from all parties in regards to some of what was floated over the course of this press conference.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, I mean, I think it's important to just look at the hard truths of what we've heard here and recognize that they don't enormously deviate from what we knew was likely to be the case prior to the press conference. What we have seen is an exceptional moment of bonhomie between the French and American presidents, and I think that's what's been lacking, the sense of, frankly, fear and animosity from European leaders about Trump's intentions. Here we have, you know, in that earlier moment, Trump reached towards Macron's hands and sort of grabbed it saying, he's a smart customer. Clearly, a bit of ability for both men to get along and heal that relationship.

Yes, we've heard some details potentially about the French being willing to step forward, Trump emphasizing how this sort of any future peacekeeping arrangement would be borne principally by Europe in terms of costs and application. That's something the Europeans have indeed been floating for a number of months now, the possibility of tens of thousands of European peacekeepers not there to fight, as Macron was keen to stress, but not dangerous but credible was the phrase that he used.

He also sort of tried to bring the U.S. partially into this without necessarily saying that they would be militarily involved in security guarantees, suggesting that they would be there in solidarity and that message would be important. And I think what he's tried to do in this is twist the tables from suggesting that the United States is somehow no longer interested in restraining Russia or backing up European security against it. And to in fact use the fact that the United States is now potentially, in his interpretation, and from the smiles we saw in this meeting, willing to back up the Macron represented Europe, that we're potentially seeing that sense of leverage back at the negotiating table with Moscow.

But there's an awful lot still that could potentially go wrong. Just to remind everybody, two weeks ago, Trump said then he would meet with Zelenskyy in the coming days. It looks much more likely to happen here. That rare earth minerals deal looks like it's on track, but our understanding from a Ukrainian source here is that puts a lot of difficult stuff further down the road, so a remarkable reversal here in terms of the mood and the tone, but the actual practical details of what we're seeing seem to be pretty similar to what we already knew, although they may have more of a chance of being implemented now.

KEILAR: All right, Nick, thank you. Let's go to Kaitlan Collins, who was there in the room during this press conference. What stood out to you, Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what you're watching is a delicate dance happening between these two world leaders who have starkly different views of the power dynamic at play here and of also how this should play out. I mean, you could hear that in the questions that were being asked to both of these world leaders, but also in how President Macron was answering his thoughts on what this looks like going forward and how this conflict could be resolved. And of course, about the past statements by President Trump when it comes to security guarantees.

Because yes, President Trump has made clear he believes that it's ultimately going to be the responsibility of Europe, and President Macron acknowledged that, saying that they are the ones who are most directly at threat by proximity, of course, to Ukraine.

And so in that conversation, though, President Macron also hearkened back to 2014 and said that if there are not security guarantees in a deal, then the deal can essentially be not worth very much and that Putin will essentially tear through that if there are not those deals in place.

He was very delicately trying to kind of lay that policy out as he was standing next to President Trump, who was, when he was asked by a French reporter if the United States would pay to help build Ukraine, he talked about, essentially, he argued the United States has done enough and disagreeing in that view of what that next step looks like going forward.

And so that is really the question here because, essentially, President Macron is trying to message that any deal that does not have those firm, airtight guarantees is not going to be worth a deal. He said they all want one, but a weak deal is not going to beget a lasting peace, and so that's really the question going forward here. And you can just see how different these two leaders are approaching

this situation, with President Macron also in the Oval Office making sure to point out that Russia has been the aggressor here and that Russia bears the ultimate responsibility for what has happened in the last three years since this invasion happened.

That is all messaging done to President Trump, and he's a world leader who knows him well. They have disagreed and agreed on many things, and you can kind of see that in his answers. As for President Trump making clear that he does believe that they could potentially be on the cusp of getting a deal here, and certainly with that minerals deal, as well, that his Treasury Secretary, who was in the room inside the Oval Office also earlier, was talking about the necessary agreement there.

There's still a question of what that looks like, and if they come to that agreement, though, of course, and, ultimately, what the overall agreement here looks like, and whether these two world leaders are on the same page with whatever the terms of that deal are.

JIMENEZ: A lot of overview over the course of this press conference, but a lot of details still to be worked out. Kaitlan, really appreciate it.

I also want to bring in Melissa Bell, who's in Paris, because look, the French President, Emmanuel Macron, he, of course, is the one standing next to President Trump, but, really, the beginning, or I would say he represented, in some ways, a lot of Europe, and saying that Europe is going to be alongside the United States, or the United States needs to be alongside Europe. And I wonder, just there in France, what you have heard from the French over whether he was actually effective in making that case for Europe, and what it will take to convince, I think what is fair to say, a skeptical President Trump to commit in the way that Macron and other leaders would like him to.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, you have to remember that this meeting happened in the context of all that happened last week, that blindsiding of Europeans by those talks, by the tone of the American administration going into them, by the abandonment of somewhat Europeans who considered the key concessions that the West might try to seek from Russia as these peace talks began. Notably the abandoning of the idea of the potential membership of NATO -- of Ukraine in NATO. And then what appeared to be President Trump's determination to get to a peace deal quickly.

This visit by Emmanuel Macron was really about reclaiming the narrative, wooing Donald Trump, making clear to the world, and specifically to Vladimir Putin, that the West still stands completely together on these issues. And I think the most interesting part of the meeting was not so much what we just heard in the press conference, but what we heard before the two men spoke during those comments in the Oval Office.

At one point, President Trump speaking of the fact that President Zelenskyy would be coming to the United States, coming to Washington to see him, that that rare minerals deal, a rare earth and minerals deal, was nearly there, that they'd made progress, that he believed it would come through, and that once it had been signed, peace could be restored to Ukraine.

President Macron then responded in French, picking up where President Trump had left off, saying, what the President means is that all of this is very important, and this re-engagement of Washington within the European side in favor of Ukraine is an important signal to Moscow that lends uncertainty to all that is happening, and that is crucial, to which President Trump replied that French was a beautiful language.

Fundamentally, what Emmanuel Macron has managed to do is come here and, both in the comments before and the comments we just heard there, restate the American position, not simply reframing, as he's done consistently over the last two weeks, the actual facts of how this war began, that this was a Russian-led invasion, that Russia was the aggressor, that Ukraine was the victim, but reframing the American position itself, even as he stood next to President Trump.

And I think that was quite deftly done. Of course, the British Prime Minister arrives later this week, and Europeans will continue to try and maintain that image of the West being on side and the peace negotiations happening in a coherent, cohesive way and on the side of Ukraine.

KEILAR: Very interesting. And Alex Marquardt, you know, he was asked, and he sort of sidestepped it, what makes you think you can trust Putin, which I have to say is such an excellent, short question, and so to the point, and he didn't answer it directly, but he basically sort of said, well, Putin wants to make a deal.

[15:45:03]

And he didn't answer it directly, but he basically sort of said Putin wants to make a deal. I just wonder what you thought of that moment.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Trump has repeatedly said that he trusts that Putin wants peace. I think one thing is clear here, the Trump administration is very impatient about getting to a peace between Ukraine and Russia, and they might be the only ones. I think the other ones, the other parties, Russia, Ukraine, the Europeans, definitely want to take more time.

And in fact, the Russians may not want a peace deal at all. This is why we've already seen them coming out saying we will not accept not just Ukraine and NATO, but we will not accept any NATO troops inside Ukraine. So that could just be a complete deal breaker for them.

And that's exactly what Macron just spent the last hour, the last few hours talking about is the prospect of European troops inside Ukraine as peacemakers.

I think this is what was very clear today is this is the beginning of a longer process. You heard Nick Paton Walsh there talking about, yes, we could see a minerals deal soon, but all the complicated details are going to have to come down the line. This meeting today with the French is the beginning of a full court press by the Europeans during the rest of the week with the Brits and others engaging with American officials, at the end of which the Europeans hope that the Americans will come around to this question of security guarantees. But you didn't hear any real agreement there. What you heard was very deft flattery from President Macron, kept talking about his friend Donald, dear Donald.

How many references did we hear about that Notre Dame ceremony where Trump was the guest of honor? You didn't hear Trump agreeing to these security guarantees that the Americans would back up. So this is the beginning of a longer process.

And one thing that really shows us how far apart the Americans and the Europeans are is this vote at the United Nations today, where the U.S. voted alongside Russia on a resolution -- that they voted against this resolution that condemned Russia and demanded the withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine. The U.S. could not condemn Russia. The U.S. could not demand these Russian forces withdraw. It's just a really stark position for the U.S. to take.

KEILAR: Just really quickly, is Trump's patience with Russia on this, if Russia doesn't want to make a deal, and Trump's kind of stuck his neck out here saying that he believes they do, is it finite?

MARQUARDT: For all of the criticism of the Trump administration about concessions and appeasing Russia, he could have a short fuse with them as well. And he has talked about flooding Ukraine with more weapons. They have talked about ratcheting up the sanctions against Russia if they don't play ball.

So we've seen a lot of carrots with regards to Russia, but the sticks have been dangled out there as well. So it's a real possibility.

JIMENEZ: All right. Thank you all. Kim Dozier, Cedric Clayton, Alex Marquardt, Nick Paton Walsh, Kaitlan Collins, Melissa Bell, did I get everyone? Thanks for the insight and time. Really appreciate it. Everyone, we'll be right back.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIMENEZ: Welcome back. President Trump is now defending the ultimatum from Elon Musk that has really thrown the federal workforce into chaos. Federal employees have until midnight tonight to submit a list of five things they accomplished in the last week or potentially lose their jobs.

That's according to an e-mail they got. Now, despite the president's approval, a number of his agency heads are telling their staffers just don't respond to the e-mail.

Joining us now is Max Alonzo, the secretary-treasurer for the National Federation of Federal Employees. You represent a lot of federal employees, so I guess I'll just start there. I mean, what advice is your union giving to the more than 100,000 workers you represent? What are you hearing from them?

MAX ALONZO, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEES: You know, there's a lot of confusion. You know, we're not necessarily telling people what to do. You know, I would say that answering the e-mail, you know, the good part of it would be to actually let these people know what we do, what federal employees do.

I was a federal employee myself at one point, so I think that, you know, if you feel like answering it, answer, you know, answer the e- mail. I will say that there's nothing that says that you have to answer the e-mail, but that's not necessarily advice I want to give right now because there are laws in place to protect these federal employees, but we've seen that these laws really aren't being followed, and I worry that some damage would be done before we go through all these lawsuits. Yes, so that is the advice.

I wouldn't say advice, but those are some choices that federal employees can make on their own. I will say that if you're in a union, your union will be representing you. If you're not a union member, I worry that you don't necessarily have as many people that have your back.

JIMENEZ: And so I guess my question is, you talked about, you know, you're not necessarily giving employees advice at this point, but as a union, if you're representing certain members, at what point does it become a problem union-wise for you all where you say, OK, now it actually is something that we have to go and deal with?

ALONZO: Well, it is a problem because some people will make the choice to not answer this e-mail. I know a lot of people have been told by their supervisors not to answer the e-mail, by agencies not to answer the e-mail, so there's a lot of confusion, like I said. So when is it that somebody doesn't answer the e-mail and they are reprimanded or let go or terminated?

That poses a problem. We definitely have their backs and we will be representing them and making sure that they're made whole because that is an illegal action.

JIMENEZ: How do you see this chaos and confusion ending? I mean, where does this go?

ALONZO: Well, I don't know. I don't know what the administration's plan is right now. Bottom line, Musk doesn't have a background in federal government and how it's run.

He's used to running private corporations. So, you know, and I don't think a lot of those corporations necessarily value their employees, and that's their own prerogative, their private companies.

[15:55:00]

He owns these companies. What he doesn't own is the federal government, and he's never going to own the federal government. You know, our federal workers work for taxpayers of this country. You know, the administration and Elon Musk, they're trying to run it like a business. You know, this isn't a business. The American people pay taxes for the services that these federal employees are giving them. And if we're firing them, well, they're not going to be getting the services.

I mean, this is money that taxpayers are spending for services that they're expecting.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Max, I'm sorry we don't have much more time left in the show, but I really appreciate you being here. Thanks for even just a quick time perspective.

It's really appreciated.

ALONZO: Thanks for having us on.

JIMENEZ: Of course. All right, everyone, we'll be right back.

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[16:00:00]

JIMENEZ: Welcome back. The Vatican says Pope Francis is showing signs of slight improvement. They say he is in critical condition though. The Pontiff's mild kidney issues are not a cause for concern.

KEILAR: They also added, he resumed working. He call the priest of the Gaza parish, with whom the Pope has been in contact. He spent the last 10 days -- Pope Francis has -- in a Rome hospital.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

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