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Hegseth Travels to Guantanamo; John Sandweg is Interviewed about Guantanamo's Migrant Plans; Judge Declines to Restore AP's Access. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 25, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

WILLIAM ATTIG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UNION VETERANS COUNCIL, AFL-CIO: Basic needs that our veterans' community needs and -- when these agencies are attacked.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: How are these cuts? I mean, how -- how much are these DOGE cuts affecting veterans in general?

ATTIG: I -- we've been hearing from dozens of veterans, our Unions have been seeing -- hearing from hundreds of veterans. We've heard over 6,000 veterans fired in the last -- in the last 30 days -- 6,000. We saw the unemployment rate for veterans increase by 1 percent last month, almost 1 percent. And we fear what's going to happen next month when that report comes out. There's a lot of fear, there's a lot of uncertainty. When we think about this, this is one million -- there's only 7.5 million working veterans in America.

So right now, 12 percent of the entire veterans' population that works, is sitting in fear of waiting for an email, wondering if they're going to be able to pay their bills next month. And that is devastating. Again, financial stability is one of the key parts to making sure in maintaining our veterans' community, both -- whether it's making sure mental health, veteran suicide, veteran homelessness, is taken care of.

And right now, unfortunately, these decisions are putting a loaded gun to our veterans' community. And that's a really scary thing to think about right now, especially when you see that some of the places that they want to attack are the places that ensure the care for our veterans, through the VA and through the places like the Department of Labor that ensure veterans employment.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about this because the American public voted in Donald Trump, and all along the way, as he was campaigning, he told everyone he was going to, as he put it, get rid of the deep state, which is his mean-spirited word for the federal government, or for much of the federal government. So, isn't this what America voted for?

ATTIG: I don't think so. I think -- I think the American people, we have issues in America right now. 30 percent of veterans make less than $31,000 a year. I want that to sink in with your listeners, right? We have issues in this country. There's a reason why Donald Trump was elected, but he wasn't elected to be an oligarch or -- and we didn't elect Elon Musk, that's for sure.

So right now, we're seeing these blatant, unfounded attacks against these workers. And I don't think that that's what the people voted for. And we're seeing that, as this story gets into communities, as stories are told about the veterans impact, 18 -- veterans who've served 18 years in the federal workforce, who got a promotion last year, who now got fired and their entire service was now taking for granted, because someone hit a button on a computer and an algorithm said this person should be fired. That is disgraceful, and that's not supporting our veterans.

And we see people wrap themselves in the flag so much, but when it comes time for these really hard fights, right, we see them turn their back on us, every single time. That's why we have to fight for every issue. We fight for it. That's why we -- I had to sleep on the steps of the Capitol to fight for the PACT Act a few years back, when they tried to kill that. So, the fight for veterans is a fight for American workers, in my opinion, because when we leave the military, that's what we become.

We became part of the society, but we have this extra bag of our military service that adds a lot to our lives and makes it much more complicated. And that's why we have these critical programs to make sure that veterans can work in the federal workforce and have preference. And again, right now, if Elon Musk does what he wants to do, there's a potential that between 200,000 to 300,000 veterans are fired this year -- 200,000 to 300,000 veterans.

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: That's a lot of people. I do want to ask you about, I hear this sort of anger and pain in your voice as you're talking about this. If you were able to say something to Elon Musk directly, in person, what would you say to him and Donald Trump?

ATTIG: There's a way to do this. We live -- this democracy we live in, people would die for in places that I've been around the globe. But there's a way to do this. There's a way to use our systems and the framework that our founders gave us to make sure that everyone is taken care of. And we aren't just putting -- this is heartless. The way they're doing this, is they're operating like these folks are just numbers on a spreadsheet.

I just wish they would listen to and talk to more of these veterans that aren't just in Washington, D.C., they're in every county, everywhere across this country that are being devastated right now.

SIDNER: William Attig, thank you so much for coming on and explaining your point of view on this. And thank you for your service as well. We really appreciate you coming on.

ATTIG: Thank you so much

SIDNER: All right, ahead, a federal judge declines to temporarily restore the "Associated Press" access around President Donald Trump, but leaves the door open for the news agency's legal fight. That story is ahead.

And Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is headed to Guantanamo Bay for briefings on the migrant transfer mission. The administration's new concerns over housing plans for migrants there.

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[09:39:33]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, today, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth travels to Guantanamo Bay, where he will visit the facilities housing migrants deported by the Trump administration. They halted efforts to build tents to house more at Guantanamo after concerns they did not meet detention standards.

Let's go right to CNN's Natasha Bertrand for the latest on this.

Natasha, what are you learning?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Secretary of Defense Hegseth, he is expected to land in Guantanamo Bay pretty imminently. And this is the first time, of course, that he's going to be visiting the facilities there since the Department of Defense started transporting migrants to Guantanamo several weeks ago.

[09:40:08]

But, at the same time, we are learning that Guantanamo Bay, they've actually stopped building tents there because of concerns that these tents don't meet ICE detention standards. Namely, they don't have air conditioning. Of course, it's very hot down there. And they don't have electricity. And in addition to this, there also is not currently justification for building more tents because there are simply not enough migrants actually being deported to warrant setting up more housing facilities for these migrants. Currently there are only about. 17 migrants being held at the higher threat area of Guantanamo, known as the detention facility, and 177 migrants were deported back to Venezuela last week. So, right now, there simply is not the need for these additional tents, and there is not the justification, of course, because they are not meeting those standards set by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Now, this is all indicative, of course, of the really harried (ph) efforts by the Department of Defense and DHS to scramble to set up additional housing facilities on the island because they were anticipating that they would need housing structures for up to 30,000 migrants that were going to be deported from the U.S. southern border. But now, of course, as I mentioned, there are currently only about 17 people being held on the island. And at the same time, only about 50 people, only about 50 migrants are even going to be able to be held at the migrant operations center, which is that transit point for migrants who are not considered high threat or violent, but that are going to be stationed there until they are deported back to their home countries.

So, all of this together paints a picture of Guantanamo being used, of course, by the military, because they wanted to send this signal that the higher threat, more violent criminals were going to be held at Guantanamo. But at the same time, there simply are not enough people being deported to the island to justify setting up additional housing structures.

So, it remains to be seen what Secretary Hegseth is going to be doing there today. He has said he's going to be receiving briefings about the migrant operations facility on the island. There are about 1,000 service members currently stationed at Guantanamo in preparation and dealing with this new tasking by the Department of Defense, John.

BERMAN: Natasha Bertrand at the Pentagon. Natasha, thank you so much for that reporting.

And with us now is John Sandweg, former acting director of ICE.

Thanks so much for being with us.

You know, Natasha's reporting there, not enough need to justify the expansion at Guantanamo gets to something bigger that's happening here, which is that right now we're hearing that Donald Trump, the president, is not satisfied with the number of migrants being deported. They can't do it fast enough or big enough for him. How surprised are you that they're not able to reach the numbers that in his head are acceptable?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, ICE: Well, John, at this point I'm not that surprised, right? This - this is what we've been talking about previously, which is that when you target a criminal population, that is tedious work. It is slow work. And you're not dealing with a large criminal alien population that's present inside the United States. So, this idea that by just saying we're going to take the gloves off and then deploy ICE assets to go after, and they're going to encounter all these, you know, huge numbers of criminal migrants out there really was never based in reality to begin with.

During the Biden administration, ICE routinely focused and prioritized this population so you didn't have that many targets to begin with. And then you have to deal with the resource challenges that you face at ICE where you only have 7,000 officers, and the number of arrests they can make is really just driven by exactly that, how many officers you can deploy.

Look, I expect that the administration is going to make a shift in tactics here. I think they're going to start pulling into all these state and local officers to deploy them, to focus on the - the, you know, immigration problems. They're going to pull these other federal agencies in. But they're also going to have to reduce their targeting and expand it to where their primary target is not anyone who has some nexus to the criminal justice system, but probably just migrants who have been in this country seeking a better life and, you know, probably have been here a long time.

BERMAN: So, if they want to expand the numbers, they have to change the targets? SANDWEG: That's right. Yes, they're running - part of the problem they're facing is they're running out of these criminal targets. What they've been doing, John, is pulling, you know, data from the criminal justice system, looking at probation and parole records, looking at people who might have been charged with a crime, you know, in court, but were never booked into custody.

But this is a tactic that ICE has been doing for the last 20 years and the population had been focusing on. So, you're not finding that many targets out there who meet that criteria.

The only way to solve this is - is really by two things. One is, expand that target range. And I think we've already, you know, we know that they're already grabbing collateral. So, when they go out there in the streets and they target that criminal, anyone else they encounter who's undocumented, they're arresting. So, a significant percentage of the arrests they've made thus far are not actually criminals.

But the second thing they need to do is they're going to - they're going to need to expand that target base and then expand the - the, you know, force multiply.

[09:45:02]

Get other agencies involved in the game targeting those other non- criminal populations. I - if they continue down the path they're on, they're not going to solve this problem that they - that they perceive of increasing the number of arrests. The only way to do that is by expanding that target list.

BERMAN: John, I'm not hearing you at all. I think our audience is. So I'm going to go ahead and ask a question, but be aware of the fact that I actually can't hear what you're saying here.

So, I want to ask you about a "Politico" report that came out this morning that's interesting and gets to what I heard you talking about right there, which is the staffing issue surrounding this effort to deport migrants.

"Politico" is reporting that before Donald Trump was inaugurated, there was a discussion about trying to privatize some of it, bring in contractors to help with deportations. This is from "Politico." "A group of prominent military contractors, including former Blackwater CEO Erik Prince, has pitched the Trump White House on a proposal to carry out mass deportations through a network of processing camps on military bases. A private fleet of 100 planes and a small army of private citizens empowered to make arrests."

Now, this did not go into effect, but what does it tell you that there were these discussions and explorations to privatize some of these functions?

SANDWEG: Yes, I think many of the ideas outlined in that memo are crazy. The idea that we could have a private, you know, cadre of bounty hunters going out on the streets and arresting migrants is frightening and would - would obviously be plainly unlawful.

But I don't know that the people understand. A lot of the work that ICE does is already outsourced. More than half of ICE's detention capacity is run by private detention providers who work under a contract for ICE. ICE air transportation operations are already funded by contract. ICE does not maintain a fleet of, you know, government jets. They instead pay private contractors to do that.

I anticipate that we're going to see an uptick in that work. I know the share prices of the detention providers skyrocketed when Trump was elected. And I think going back to this kind of targeting problem the administration has, I would expect that they're going to outsource even more of that work to private contractors who will do the kind of painstaking work of identifying a potential arrest target.

But - but look, this - I think we're going to see more of this. You know, a lot of money is coming ICE's way when Congress passes this budget. And I can promise you, a lot of - you know, private contractors are out there looking for ways to get a piece of that money.

BERMAN: John Sandweg, in a miracle of communications, I did hear that last answer. So, thank you very much for being with us this morning. Thanks.

So, also this morning, who might get banned next after a judge let the White House ban on the "Associated Press" stand for now.

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[09:52:05]

SIDNER: There is an early setback for "Associated Press" efforts to - hello, John.

BERMAN: I just want to make sure we're in the right place.

SIDNER: He's just kidding here this morning. We're just waking up.

A federal judge says he will not issue an emergency order to temporarily restore the AP's access to some of the president's events. The president imposed a ban to punish the news organization over its decision to continue using the name Gulf of Mexico, even though he renamed the body of water Gulf of America.

CNN's Hadas Gold is joining us now.

OK, so give us a sense of what's happening here because the AP didn't win on one thing, but they - there's still more to come.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is not the end of the road.

SIDNER: No.

GOLD: The AP sued after trying to resolve this behind the scenes. And they sued on the grounds of both the First Amendment, saying that this is essentially viewpoint discrimination, as well as the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment, saying that this ban from what we're seeing is most White House events severely impacts their ability to do their jobs. And that's because they haven't been able to go into a lot of these press availabilities. The press conference yesterday between President Trump and President Macron, both in the East Room and in the Oval Office, they were not there. The AP is also a bedrock of the White House press pool, the rotating group of journalists that follows the president everywhere and that the White House has agreed to will be managed by the White House Correspondents Association. So, now the AP cannot do their job.

Now, the White House said, in their argument, you know, just like interviews, we don't have to give access to the president, to these spaces, to absolutely anybody. They say the AP still has their White House press passes. They can still go to the general briefings. And they said they can still do their jobs based off of pool reports, like other outlets who might not have a White House correspondent.

Now, what's interesting is in the hearing, this was a Trump appointed judge, he did express some skepticism to the White House's argument, saying that it was problematic, saying at one point it almost seemed clear to him that it was viewpoint discrimination.

However, he did not agree to the AP's request for an immediate restraining order that would have immediately lifted the ban, saying that - a few things. He said that no - he didn't see any proof that the AP faced "irreparable harm." He says that the AP still has access to the same information through pool notes. He said the delayed filing was evidence that there was no harm. I should note that the AP tried to solve this behind the scenes first before they went the legal route.

There is a hearing scheduled, though, for March 20th. This is - this is not the end of the road for the AP. There could be a preliminary injunction issued.

Now, what's at stake here, though, is precedent. And I want to point out that there are Trump aligned right wing outlets that are on the side of the AP. This is what "Newsmax" has said to "The New York Times." They say, "we can understand President Trump's frustration because the media has often been unfair to him. But Newsmax still supports the AP's right. And here's why. Because they fear a future administration may not like something Newsmax writes and seeks to ban it." So, they say it's the AP this time. It could be us next time.

SIDNER: That is the argument that everyone should use.

BERMAN: Yes, and the judge, to be clear, and I think I'm paraphrasing here, basically told the White House, you may want to go look at the law and the case law before we actually have this hearing, which was his way of saying, ultimately, the law may not be on your side.

[09:55:02]

GOLD: Exactly. And so, again, the White House may be declaring victory right now, which they are, they're declaring victory over this, but this is far from the end of the road here and they will be back in court in March.

BERMAN: And just one final follow. Is it true it's your birthday today?

GOLD: It is birthday today.

SIDNER: Let's sing. Happy birthday to you.

That's how we do it in my house. I am sure your happy birthday is a little different, but that's the Stevie Wonder version.

BERMAN: I didn't (ph) get a second source on that, although - although I did have single source approval because it was actually Hadas Gold who told me it was her birthday.

SIDNER: It is true. Yes.

GOLD: I give you single source information (ph).

SIDNER: Happy birthday.

GOLD: Thank you very much.

SIDNER: How does 21 feel?

GOLD: Twenty-one feels amazing. I'm so excited to go to the bar later.

SIDNER: We will be with you.

BERMAN: Happy birthday.

SIDNER: Thank you. Happy birthday, Hadas.

BERMAN: That is all for us today. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL with Sara Sidner, John Berman, (INAUDIBLE) Kate Bolduan.

"CNN NEWSROOM" is up next.