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Some Fired Probationary Employees Reinstated By Independent Board; Zelenskyy: U.S. Security Guarantees Critical To Ukraine Peace Deal; Monica Lewinsky: Clinton Should Have Resigned After Scandal. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 26, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: -- for the latest on this. Good morning.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Good morning, John. The judges are looking at these lawsuits and saying, yes, maybe the Trump administration can't just shut off federal funding however it wants in very quick order, turn that money back on.

So the three examples we got yesterday, orders from judges, one in Seattle, two in federal court in Washington. One said, you can't shut off federal funding to refugee financial support. Another said, you can't freeze federal funding to non-profit groups through a broad directive of the Office of Management and Budget.

That could be potentially catastrophic to those non-profit organizations, essentially fatal to them, so that can't happen. And then a third judge said, that foreign aid money going through USAID out to contractors and non-profit groups doing work around the globe, get that money to them that is owed. That is Judge Amir Ali saying that in court yesterday. And he gave the federal government a deadline of midnight tonight to turn the money back on to get those payments made to USAID contractors and non-profits.

But John, the federal government, then came back in court late last night in a filing and told the judge, it's not that easy. We shut off the money and it's going to take us weeks to get it out to those contractors and non-profits working in foreign aid. Peter Marocco, the USAID top manager right now, wrote to the court, restarting funding related to terminated or suspended agreements is not as simple as turning on a switch or faucet.

So they want more time. They're going to an appeals court this morning. This is a very live situation, a clash between potentially the courts, the foreign aid world, and the Trump administration over what to do with Trump's attempt to shut down that entire agency's work at USAID. John?

BERMAN: Look, it has such consequences. Katelyn, I understand you've got some new information about fired federal workers maybe getting their jobs back for now. POLANTZ: Yes, John, another live ball in court overnight. There's a board that reinstated six fired employees who were probationary workers in the federal government. So they weren't on probation. They were just new to their jobs. The Trump administration is firing thousands of people like this across many different agencies. These came -- these people came from a bunch of different agencies and said, this feels improper. And the board looked at their cases and said, yes, we agree, reinstate them for 45 days to their jobs in federal agencies.

And we're going to then take a closer look in court with more proceedings to come. One of those people who lost their jobs among these federal probationary workers who've been fired, John, it was a disabled veteran who on the same day he lost his job was told by his supervisor that his work was going above and beyond. So that's why the board thinks that there may be a problem here because you are not supposed to be able to fire federal workers without cause. John?

BERMAN: Interesting contradictions there. All right. Katelyn Polantz, great reporting. Thank you very much. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, James Eisenmann is now joining us. He previously worked on that little known Merit Systems Protection Board that Katelyn was just mentioning. He is with me to talk through this. What -- what power does this board have to reinstate employees?

JAMES EISENMANN, PARTNER, ALDEN LAW GROUP PLLC: Well, good morning. Thanks for having me. The Merit Systems Protection Board has the power to hear appeals from federal employees, federal whistleblowers who have been fired or retaliated against. And the board has the authority through either its administrative judges or the board itself to reinstate federal employees who've been wrongly fired.

SIDNER: How does the board work?

EISENMANN: So the board works through initially appeals to administrative judges. The board has regional and field offices throughout the country. There are about 65 administrative judges. Someone, a federal employee who was fired files an appeal in one of those regional offices. Administrative judge conducts a hearing, much like a trial, except there's no jury, calling of witnesses, bringing of evidence. The judge issues a decision. That decision from the judge can be appealed to the three board members at headquarters of the MSPB.

SIDNER: I want to get your take on this. We just heard from an employee and her attorney who said that she was fired for what DOGE called poor performance. She says, though, she has never had a poor performance review in her almost 20 years working for Veterans Affairs. And she had just changed her position and became a provisional employee.

She said her supervisor wasn't even aware she was being fired. She just got an e-mail saying that her job had been terminated for poor performance. How does DOGE have all this power? And are you seeing something here that just doesn't make sense? It's something the board could look at.

[09:35:14]

EISENMANN: Yes, that's a great question, how DOGE has this authority. I'm not quite sure that they actually do have this authority. And these notices that have been going out to federal employees throughout the -- throughout the federal government about their performance being subpar are really just cookie cutter. They're not individualized evaluations of -- of employees' performance, which to me just shows what a -- what a sham the entire process of firing these probation employees is.

SIDNER: What -- what can employees do if they've lost their jobs? And I mean, do they have to hire an attorney? Is that what they have to do even though they're in this financial situation that, you know, many of them may not be able to afford one?

EISENMANN: Right. There are a number of groups that are working to help federal employees in all these situations to address their, or get redressed for their -- their rights. They don't have to hire attorneys. The process is an administrative process, which is designed hopefully for individuals to manage it themselves. However, this can be a complicated area, especially whether someone is a probationary employee or not.

But there are a number of groups out there that are trying to assist federal employees as they go through this very, very difficult and complicated time. But there are a lot of groups out there trying to help -- help them out.

SIDNER: Just lastly, what are your thoughts overall on what you're seeing DOGE do here where there are mass firings and there are more expected to come here?

EISENMANN: Overall, it's a -- it's a travesty. And to me, it's just an assault on the rule of law. There's no real consideration for the impact of these firings on the agencies, on the mission of the agencies, and on the individuals themselves. They're simply just slash and burn for just the sake of cutting without actually any thought to it.

I think in the end, it will harm the federal workforce -- the public at some point. James Eisenmann, thank you so much for coming on this morning. Really appreciate your time there from Washington, D.C. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Ukraine's President Zelenskyy is heading to Washington to meet with President Trump on Friday as the two agree to a minerals deal. But what is in this deal and how much do they agree? It seems it all comes down to this meeting on Friday.

And two close calls for two planes from major airlines, one in Chicago, the other in D.C. What forced both of them to abort landings yesterday?

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[09:42:34]

BOLDUAN: Breaking news this morning. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy addressing the potential minerals deal with the United States ahead of his trip to the White House expected Friday. Zelenskyy now saying that the deal could be a big success but making clear that it's not done yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): If we understand that the U.S. will be one of the countries or one of the leading countries who gives security guarantees, then this could be a success or the first step towards a sustainable fair peace growth of the Ukrainian economy or if it's just some sort of beginning without a vision for the end. We will make conclusions after my conversation with President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now, CNN's Jim Sciutto has been watching all -- all of this. Every time they speak, it's something, you know, you have to piece through and parse through their words. I mean, it feels like there could be a lot riding on this White House meeting. Also feels like a lot more of this negotiation is like playing out in public than really anyone has seen before.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, from Ukraine's perspective at this point, it seems that Ukraine's view is that if it doesn't signal willingness to give Trump what he wants in terms of access to its minerals, that the possibility of a security arrangement is off the table.

At this point, it's not a straight up quid pro quo because the U.S. and President Trump has offered no such security guarantee yet. But given the dissolution of this relationship over the last couple of weeks, Ukraine seems to feel it's got to say, I'm willing to go there to hold open the possibility of a security guarantee. And I -- and I don't think we should frame these as free and fair negotiations, right, or equal negotiations because Ukraine is very much at the disadvantage here, right? Because without U.S. military support, it's an existential question for Ukraine.

They fear they lose their country. And my understanding from speaking to U.S. lawmakers in touch with Ukrainian officials is that Ukraine fears it could lose even more than the promise of security guarantees. U.S. intelligence sharing, for instance, perhaps even access to the Starlink network, which it needs, of course, controlled by Elon Musk. So Ukraine is fearing it could lose it all if it doesn't at least keep open this path.

BOLDUAN: And -- and Jim, I mean, everyone remembers that these two men have had a long and rocky road --

[09:45:06]

SCIUTTO: Yes. BOLDUAN: -- when it comes to a relationship of cutting any kind of deal. And I'm just kind of looking at the context of the, you know, that's the backdrop of what I'm kind of looking at this one through.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, this is not the first time that President Trump has tied security assistance to Ukraine, or in this case, just the possibility of security assistance or security guarantees to something he wants in return. Remember, this was the substance of the first impeachment when President Trump, according to folks inside his own administration at the time, withheld U.S. military assistance to Ukraine to pressure Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden, who was going to be his opponent in that election.

So it's not the first time Trump has made that connection, made this a transactional relationship. And I think sometimes commentators, observers, will miss the consistency in Trump's approach to Ukraine, which -- which going back to the first administration, it seems to be the case quite now based on his public comments, is Trump does not see Ukraine as central to America's security. And therefore, he -- he doesn't feel that his hands are tied, that he could almost take it or leave it, right, in terms of Ukraine -- Ukrainian military support.

He -- he may still get there, he may offer some assurances, but as it stands now, you know, this -- this minerals deal is just to keep open -- open that possibility. It's not even to -- to guarantee that security guarantee. It's -- it's a -- it's quite a shift in the relationship.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's going to be interesting to see what that relationship looks like when they sit down on Friday, for sure. It's good to see you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Good to see you.

BOLDUAN: Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Ahead, Monica Lewinsky says she was thrown under the bus when the scandal involving then President Bill Clinton made headlines around the world. She's now saying something she's never really publicly said before about Clinton. Her story, ahead.

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[09:51:32]

BOLDUAN: Two different passenger planes, two different cities, forced to abort landings yesterday. An American Airlines flight was preparing to land at Reagan National Airport outside D.C., of course, when it suddenly canceled its landing to avoid colliding with another plane that was preparing to take off from the same runway. Passenger telling CNN that it was terrifying as they could see how close they were to the ground before the plane turned sharply upward.

And then in Chicago, a Southwest flight aborted its landing at midway when a private plane, you'll see, entered the runway that that exact plane was intending to land on. The two planes got as close as some 2,000 feet of each other. Passengers spoke about their experiences afterward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY NOVAK, PASSENGER ON SOUTHWEST FLIGHT: I just feel very thankful for who we had flying our plane.

CALEY MASZK, PASSENGER ON SOUTHWEST FLIGHT: Yes, and I was already kind of anxious going on the plane just because of what's been happening this year so far with all the flights, you know, crashing and things happening. So I was already anxious. And then when that happened, I -- I was extra thankful, very thankful for the pilot and everyone who was involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So Flexjet, it's the company that operates that private jet you saw on the runway, says that it has launched an investigation into this incident to be sure. John?

BERMAN: That said, there's a video that aborted landing is remarkable.

BOLDUAN: I know.

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, Monica Lewinsky talking in ways she has not before about the events that led to the impeachment of Bill Clinton. So one of the most popular podcasts in the country, she says the then president should have handled it much differently. Let's get right to CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister for the latest on this. Elizabeth?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. So for the first time ever, Monica Lewinsky saying that she believes that former President Bill Clinton should have resigned amid their affair in the 90s. Now, Lewinsky says that if he didn't resign, that she wishes that he didn't lie about their relationship. Those are her words. Let's take more of a look at what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX COOPER, PODCAST HOST: When you look back, once the news broke and how everything was handled by media and the White House. How do you think it should have been handled? Have you thought about?

MONICA LEWINSKY, ACTIVIST: Oh, my gosh. Good question. I haven't been asked that before. So I think that the right way to handle a situation like that would have been to probably say it was, you know, nobody's business.

COOPER: Yes. LEWINSKY: And to resign, you know, or to find a way -- to find a way of staying in office that was not lying and not throwing a young person who was just starting out in the world under the bus. I think there was so much collateral damage for women of -- of my generation to watch a young woman to be pilloried on the world stage, to be torn apart, you know, for my sexuality, for my mistakes, for my everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WAGMEISTER: Now, you see there Lewinsky sitting with Alex Cooper, who is the number one female podcaster in the world. John, you may remember that last year Cooper sat down with Kamala Harris in the final stretch of the election in an effort to reach young women.

[09:55:01]

And that is what Lewinsky was doing by sitting down with Alex Cooper. She's reaching a new generation of female listeners, some of whom may actually have never heard of Monica Lewinsky's story. That's hard to imagine. But for Gen Z listeners and viewers who weren't alive yet in the 90s, this may have been the first time that they actually heard her story.

And Monica went on to talk about her own podcast, which she just launched, which is called Reclaiming, all about reclaiming her narrative and reclaiming her name after she says that it was smeared in the media for decades.

BERMAN: All right, Elizabeth Wagmeister for us. Thank you very much for that.

I have to say, Monica Lewinsky, to hear her say and she's answered so many questions over the years --

BOLDUAN: Right.

BERMAN: -- and -- and listening to her, I think is actually really educational, informative.

BOLDUAN: I was going to say the same thing.

BERMAN: She's had such an important evolution when she says I've never been asked that before. It's really interesting to hear her say that. Well, why not? I mean, it's actually -- it was a great question.

BOLDUAN: Why not is -- is also a good question.

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: But I agree. I was going to say hearing her talk about and reflect on her experience with in present day and what she's learned is always fascinating, interesting and important.

Thank you all so much for joining us. This is CNN News Central. CNN Newsroom up next.

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