Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump, U.K. Prime Minister Starmer To Meet At White House For Critical Talks On Ukraine; RKF Jr. Downplays Texas Outbreak Amid Measles Death; Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) Discusses Speaker Johnson Vowing GOP Will Not Cut Medicaid. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 27, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That is, of course, actor Gene Hackman in just one of his legendary tough guy roles.

We continue to follow the breaking news this morning of his passing. The Sante Fe Sheriff's Office says that the Oscar winner, along with his wife and his dog, were all found dead inside their New Mexico home yesterday. No cause of death has been confirmed but deputies do say that right now foul play is not suspected.

Hackman, who retired from acting over 20 years ago, was 95 years old -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you, Kate.

Happening today a White House meeting with tremendous global stakes. In a few hours President Trump welcomes British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, kicking off a new critical test of the president's relationship with Europe, Ukraine, and Russia.

All of this just one day after Trump's mineral deal with Ukraine and one day before his sit-down with President Zelenskyy.

By the end of the day Starmer wants the U.S. to make security guarantees for Ukraine if a peace deal with Russia is struck, but that is something Trump says he will not do.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is at the White House with the very latest on this. There is a lot of confusion about whether this deal is actually done or not done. It depends on who you ask.

What are you learning?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. You're really seeing a whole parade of European leaders come here to the White House this week.

Today it is Keir Starmer's turn at bat, and what he's really trying to do is argue to President Trump that Ukraine needs a place at the table in these peace negotiations and also that Europe is ready to help guarantee security in Ukraine once this war ends but it will need some backing from the United States. It will need its military muscle. So that's a tall task for him in the Oval Office today.

But I think the choreography and the sequencing of this week has been highly intentional. We saw on Monday the French President Emmanuel Macron come and try to use his personal relationship with Trump -- he's a friendly face in a lot of ways -- to talk to Trump about these issues. To push back in some ways without making Trump feel cornered.

Starmer is a new relationship for President Trump. It's gotten off to a good start. But he does want to get into more granular detail about what some of these security guarantees might look like, but also what Europe might need from the United States. You know, no one really believes that Europe alone will be able to prevent further Russian aggression. And so what he's looking for is essentially a backstop.

And he talked to reporters on his plane flying here from London. He said his concern is that a ceasefire without a backstop will "simply give Putin the opportunity to wait and come again because his ambition in relation to Ukraine is pretty obvious, I think, for all to see."

So a lot for these two men to talk about.

And then, of course, we will see Volodymyr Zelenskyy here tomorrow to sign that minerals deal that had been the subject of so much contention but also to make kind of an eleventh hour case to President Trump before Trump sits down with Putin.

Now, I think the question in all of these meetings is whether they're having any effect. I think so far, you'd be hard-pressed to find any change in Trump's position when it comes to the origins of this war. When it comes to Vladimir Putin's intentions.

And even just yesterday he really cast doubt on the extent of the American commitment going forward. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going to make security guarantees beyond very much. We're going to have Europe do that because it's in -- you know, we're talking about Europe is their next door neighbor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So there is still an enormous gulf (PH) here.

One very important thing that Trump said yesterday in the cabinet room was acknowledging that Russia would have to make some concessions as part of this peace settlement. That's not something that he had said before. It's a small item, but when you talk to European officials, they do think it could be a step in the right direction.

SIDNER: Yeah, it is not brain science that concessions have to be made when you are trying to make a deal with two warring factions.

Kevin Liptak, thank you so much. I really appreciate it -- Kate. BOLDUAN: So when Target announced in January that it was pulling back on its DEI programs it sparked conversation among the Black community who felt betrayed by the decision. Now Black consumers are collectively moving to boycott target and other retailers that have reversed DEI programs in recent weeks. And activists are now pushing consumers to spend their money somewhere else.

CNN's Eva McKend has this reporting for us. Eva, good morning. What are you learning?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Kate.

Our colleague Michael Ellis and I have spoken to dozens of people involved and it's remarkable to see the extent to which Black consumers in this country are owning their buying power.

Reverend Jamal Bryant, out of Georgia -- he is one of many faith leaders calling for this boycott, urging Black Americans to stop shopping at Target and to sell their stock in the retailer for Lent, the 40-day period from March 5 to April 17.

Now, part of Target's brand identity has been this association with championing diversity, and so it has come as a blow to some consumers, in particular, to see them retreat from these stated values, not put up much of a public fight against the conservative war on diversity, equity, and inclusion.

[07:35:12]

Here's how the pastor is thinking about this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, ORGANIZING "TARGET FAST" BOYCOTT: The Black church historically has always been on the front line of civil rights. And so Lent is the season that leads from Ash Wednesday to resurrection. So it is not just withholding of dollars but a pushing forward of prayer. A lot in America is shifting and the church is going to have to be more active and vocal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So Kate, you heard the pastor there speaking to our colleague Victor Blackwell.

Now, in the wake of George Floyd's death in 2020, Target made certain commitments like expanding Black employee representation by 20 percent.

So the boycott has some specific demands, and they include honoring the $2 billion pledge to the Black business community through products, services, and Black media buys. Depositing $250 million into Black banks. Completing restoring that commitment to DEI initiatives. And then offering the community centers 10 HBCUs to teach retail business at every level. So I will end with this, Kate. Many tell us that this war on DEI feels like a war on blackness and everything they represent. For Target's part they argue that they will maintain a commitment to respecting all of their visitors -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Eva, thank you so much for your reporting.

So this week we're seeing more and more examples of the blowback that Republican lawmakers are facing over, really, Elon Musk and his DOGE cuts. The blowback from their very own constituents packing town halls frustrated and wanting answers and demanding that their representatives do something.

Last night that was on display in Virginia's first congressional district. Republican Congressman Rob Wittman holds monthly mobile office hours led by a staff member, so he was not there. But people showed up wanting to see the congressman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Crying) I spent the last six months training in tax law to ensure employers were funding the employees' retirement funds adequately and timely. This mass terminations without any assessment of the American people's needs will end up costing taxpayers more money --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Waste! Waste!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- disruption to services. You want to know why no one's at the Social Security office? They're firing people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, and Terry Sullivan, former campaign manager for Marco Rubio's presidential campaign. Two of my favorite people. It is good to see you, guys.

Bakari, on this topic I want to play for you what House Speaker Mike Johnson said just last night when asked about this blowback. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The videos you saw of the town halls were for paid protesters in many of those places. These are Democrats who went to the events early and filled up the seats. If you had -- if the videos had panned outside the building --

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: You can't argue they were all fake protesters though, Mr. Speaker.

JOHNSON: Many of them were. I don't know.

COLLINS: What are your -- what -- a Republican --

JOHNSON: We --

COLLINS: -- acknowledged they were his constituents.

JOHNSON: Uh, one Republican acknowledged they were constituents. That's fantastic, OK. But they had Democrats come and fill the seats early.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Democrats can be your constituents, too. And no evidence that people were paid, of course, Bakari.

But what do you think of the response from Mike Johnson?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, Mike Johnson is never going to win a profiles in courage. I mean, I think we know that. And if Republicans want to put their head in the sand and just continue to kiss up to Elon Musk then so be it.

But many Americans -- Black, white, Democrat, Republican from New York all the way down to South Carolina and Mississippi -- have heartburn with the rash way that DOGE is going through and just cutting many Americans' needs. As the woman said, it was kind of clear through her tears that they're not assessing Americans' needs before they do these cuts.

And whether or not you're talking about USAID and people are like oh, this is just foreign aid until they realize the USAID actually purchase so many agricultural goods from American farmers, whether or not it's Ebola response, whether or not it's all of these different things that are being cut -- VA, et cetera -- Americans are having a hard time with this. And if Republicans don't want to deal with it so be it.

BOLDUAN: Terry, I'm wondering if Republicans -- like, if Mike Johnson is really kind of shoulder-shrugging like he seemed to be publicly -- if he really is doing that so much behind the scenes.

How do you think -- do you think he -- do you think he and leadership is managing this the right way? Do you think -- how do you think they should be managing this?

TERRY SULLIVAN, FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER, MARCO RUBIO PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well look, this is an executive branch issue that the Trump administration is doing and it's -- and it's -- look, the amount of political courage that Donald Trump is showing by doing this -- Republicans have been talking about cutting the deficit since as long as I can remember. For sure, as long as I can -- I could vote. And it usually doesn't happen. And now it's actually happening.

[07:40:17]

Right now the American people are spending -- or the American government is spending 25 percent more than it brings in every single year. People have to stop. And it's awful when folks lose their jobs. Every one of us has known a family member who has gotten laid off through no fault of their own, whether they worked in government or not.

And so look, this isn't great for the people getting laid off. It's awful, it's traumatic, but it happens.

And the government isn't sustainable at this rate of spending. So we can talk about how it's phrased or how efficiently it's handled. Government doesn't handle anything efficiently and it's never -- laying off people is never going to be done in the most caring way.

But at the end of the day this has to be done. It is the single greatest threat to our economic stability in the United States. This deficit spending is out of control and it's -- finally we've got someone who is standing up to say look, we're going to do something about it.

BOLDUAN: Bakari, you look like you -- one -- at one point you look you ate something sour and then I don't know what -- then what your face did.

SELLERS: Yeah, no. I feel like I got into economics 101 because the theory is oh my God, you know, Kate, I saved a lot of money for my budget this year because I didn't pay my mortgage. Like, that's not the way it works. That's not the way deficits work. That's not the way that economics works.

I mean, you have to see the other side of the ledger. If we're going to talk about a balanced budget and we're going to have a conversation about deficits, et cetera, you literally have to look at the other side of the ledger, and that is not what the argument was. So that's kind of first.

But the second thing is --

SULLIVAN: But Bakari, the other side of the ledger --

SELLERS: -- this is more than just (INAUDIBLE).

Go ahead.

SULLIVAN: The other side of the ledger is raising taxes. I'm sorry. Like, that's -- like, the other side of the ledger is more income. And more income for the federal government is higher taxes. And so it's either cuts or higher taxes and those are the options right now.

And look, Republicans aren't for raising taxes.

BOLDUAN: I want to get -- I actually want to -- I actually want to jump into that a second, but Bakari, finish your thought.

SELLERS: No. And I was just going to say that these cuts are doing more damage to the economy in the long run, and I think that you have to do some assessment.

If you and I actually went to a bar in D.C. right now -- I wish Charlie Palmer was still open. Shoutout to the bartenders over there.

BOLDUAN: I would say yes, please.

SELLERS: I hope they got a new job. They were great.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

SELLERS: But if we were able to go to a bar we could probably figure this out and go through and do cuts that were direct and purposeful and intentional.

What I'm saying is that by not assessing the needs of the American people what DOGE is doing is ass backwards. I mean, that's the only way that I can think about saying it. Because you're actually cutting things that people need in their daily lives and it's harming people like American farmers. That's my point.

BOLDUAN: On television you're supposed to say bass ackwards, just so you know.

Terry, let's talk about this exact point --

SELLERS: Got it.

BOLDUAN: -- about the -- when we're -- let's talk about it in the realm of the budget. Because Mike Johnson gets a big -- and it was a big win holding Republicans together in that vote.

SULLIVAN: Right.

BOLDUAN: But they are now going to hit -- necessarily hit --

SELLERS: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- a reality wall on the Trump budget.

And Axios frames it in an interesting way. It really gets at what you guys were just talking about actually.

Axios writes, "Most politicians agree on three truths. We have a spending problem (too much), a tax problem (too high or too low), and a debt problem (way too much). Yet the typical response is make all three worse." Then they on to say, "They're trying to convince their members" -- meaning Republicans -- "and the American public that you can take in less money (taxes), spend more on defense, and somehow reduce deficits without touching the programs that cost the most."

This is the same conversation we have had for how long, gentlemen, in the realm of politics? This is going to be messy.

How are Republicans in charge of all of those chambers of the Congress going to make sense of it, Terry?

SULLIVAN: Yeah, it's not easy. And look, making -- would do they say? Making legislation is like making sausage. No one wants to see how it's done. The reality is this is going to be tough to do and it's going to be

painful, and there's going to be bad news reporting -- or bad press out of it for Republicans in many situations. But this is a necessary thing that has to happen and there's going to be some tough decisions made.

Donald Trump says we're not going to touch entitlements. But look, there's some things that have to be done and --

BOLDUAN: It's just like no way to do this. There's no way to do this. There is no way to do -- there is no way to do it without touching entitlements, and that is the thing that they promised they are not going to do. Though I did hear some inkling though yesterday of finding efficiencies and rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse could be --

SELLERS: Right.

BOLDUAN: -- is something that -- and I'm just wondering if this is going to become the definition of terms of, like, what's your definition of waste, and fraud, and abuse? Is it benefits, you know?

SULLIVAN: I think -- I think that was actually my point is that look, there is a -- you know, what is the entitlement as far as -- it's not waste, fraud, and abuse.

[07:45:00]

Like, that is -- when Elon Musk lays out the -- someone getting 150 years old that's getting Social Security, they're probably not alive. That is not an entitlement you're cutting. That is fixing the glitch.

And so I think there's going to -- part of that is going to have -- there's going to be savings and it's going to be cutting in a lot of different places to make this work.

BOLDUAN: Bakari, say yes or no. Do you agree with everything I say?

SIDNER: The answer is yes, Bakari. The answer is yes.

SELLERS: Can we go to break?

BOLDUAN: No way. No way. I'd like for one time -- the one time I have made him speechless. I now can retire.

Guys, thank you. Gentlemen, thank you so much. It's good to see you both -- Sara.

SULLIVAN: I agree with most everything you say, Kate.

SIDNER: I --

BOLDUAN: Thank you. Well, Terry, it's an invite back. Bakari, you've got to work for it --

SIDNER: Suck up. BOLDUAN: -- like taking me to the bar.

Sara, you see what I did there? I don't think I've ever been able to do that.

SIDNER: Here's the thing. When will men learn the answer is yes?

BOLDUAN: I'm going to play this to everyone when it comes on TV. Man, woman, dog or cat. Just say yes when I say do you agree with me. Just kidding.

SIDNER: It works the best. It makes you happy. This is what we like. Thank you, Kate.

All right. Just ahead the growing measles outbreak in Texas has turned deadly. A school-aged child is now the first U.S. measles death in a decade. These are the current 124 confirmed cases, mostly among children.

CNN's Meg Tirrell is joining us with more details about the child who lost their lives. What can you tell us?

MEG TIRRELL CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Sara. Texas health officials held a press conference yesterday and expressed surprise that they saw a death. They said they weren't prepared to see that, especially so early on in this outbreak. And that gives you a sense that really, they expect this outbreak to continue to grow. Measles is such a contagious disease.

They told us that this child is schooled-aged, was unvaccinated, and had been hospitalized but really held other details close at this point.

And as you said, this is the first measles death in the United States since 2015, so it's just a tragedy -- and even more so because measles is a vaccine-preventable disease with a safe and effective vaccine that has been available for decades.

This outbreak in west Texas has now grown to 124 cases, 18 hospitalizations. The vast majority of these cases have been unvaccinated. Most of them school-aged children, some even younger. We heard of an infant, for example, who was too young to be vaccinated who was one of those -- is one of those cases. Of those who are hospitalized, all of them, they told us yesterday, were unvaccinated.

So this is a tragedy, and we are continuing to watch potentially these case numbers grow, Sara.

SIDNER: It's a tragedy that is preventable and that makes it even more tragic. If they would just get the vaccine.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr., speaking of which, was asked about the outbreak in a cabinet meeting yesterday and here is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We're watching it. We put out a post yesterday and we're going to continue to follow it. Incidentally, there have been four measles outbreaks this year in this country -- last year over 16. So it's not unusual. We have measles outbreaks every year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: "It's not unusual" is how he put it.

What do the local public health experts say about this?

TIRRELL: Well, you know, they note that measles -- though we do see a few dozen cases in the United States every year and sometimes these larger outbreaks, they say this is unusual. And that really dismayed a lot of people in the public health community to hear that yesterday.

They pointed out we eliminated measles in the United States in the year 2000, and so many doctors have not even seen measles cases. They noted though that as vaccination rates, particularly in pockets of communities -- as those vaccination rates come down more and more people are vulnerable to measles and so we are starting to see more cases.

But Robert F. Kennedy Jr. saying that it's not unusual was just a shock to a lot of people when we're seeing the first measles death in a decade in a child.

SIDNER: Yeah. Certainly a shock to that poor family that lost a child.

Meg, thank you so much. I really appreciate your reporting -- appreciate you.

All right. Prayers filled Saint Peter's Square for Pope Francis. This morning a brand new update from the Vatican on his battle with pneumonia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, 97TH ACADEMY AWARDS: We all set? I want to make sure you guys aren't crushed by this carpet. It weighs over 6,000 pounds. Here we go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: It looks like they're doing squats there. You know it's getting real when the red carpet is rolled out. My legs hurt. Conan O'Brien kicking off the official Oscars event as he prepares to host Sunday night's big event. I think he's going to be really good.

BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE).

SIDNER: Yeah, he's -- yeah.

BOLDUAN: It takes a long time to get down there. SIDNER: That's why he is lying down on it because he's too tall to be pushing that.

BOLDUAN: I didn't see that part. That's funny.

(COMMERCIAL)

SIDNER: All right. World leaders are trying to hone in on a deal to end Russia's war on Ukraine but it may have hit a snag. The Kremlin announced minutes ago annexed regions of Ukraine are now part of Russia and non-negotiable.

[07:55:00]

In just a few hours President Trump meets with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer days after the U.S. voted against a U.N. resolution condemning the war that has gone on now for three years.

Tomorrow the president will meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Joining us now is Democratic Sen. Chris Coons of Delaware, also a member of the Foreign Relations Committee.

I know you have been busy. I know you've been hearing a lot of different things. And I want you to listen to this because I know you've heard this already, but I want to just clarify something. This is what President Trump said about Ukraine and its natural resources and what the U.S. was going to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We get back the money that we spent, and we hope that we're going to be able to settle this up. It's a great deal for Ukraine too because they get us over there and we're going to be working over there. We'll be on the land. And, you know, in that way it's sort of automatic security because nobody's going to be messing around with our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Senator Coons, did he just say that U.S. personnel will be on the ground in Ukraine? What do you think of this?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well Sara, one of the real challenges we face here in the Senate is getting clarity about what it is President Trump intends with regards to our closest allies -- France, and the United Kingdom, and other European NATO partners, and Ukraine.

I was with President Macron with a bipartisan group of senators earlier this week as we were talking with him about his meeting with President Trump. And I was with Keir Starmer, the British prime minister last night as another group of us were trying to get sense out of where President Trump is going.

I don't think in that comment, Sara, that he meant U.S. military personnel would be on the ground in Ukraine. I think what he has in mind, as best I can tell, is that a critical minerals deal would result in American investors and private sector American staff on the ground in Ukraine.

Keir Starmer will be meeting with President Trump today to try and get an American security guarantee for troops from across Europe -- not American troops -- that would be in Ukraine to stabilize and secure any sort of a peace deal going forward.

SIDNER: All right.

Let me ask you next about Trump finally saying that Russia will have to make some concessions to end the Ukraine war. He didn't say what they would be. And now we hear Russia saying they have taken land and it's going to be a part of Russia, and there is no deal they're going to make about that.

What should the, sort of, stick -- he's given Putin a carrot, for sure. What should the stick be? What should America be telling Russia to do?

COONS: Well Sara, President Trump and Republicans love to talk about peace through strength. The past -- the path forward here towards a just and sustainable peace for Ukraine is strength. Is doubling down on threatening Putin that we will continue to contribute advanced weapons, financial support, partnership with Ukraine alongside our European allies who are stepping forward and saying they will contribute even more to the defense of Ukraine.

If Putin faces a united West with America in the lead he will step back because he's taken horrific losses on the battlefield. His economy is shaky. If we strengthen our sanctions on Russia, if we strengthen our support for Ukraine, it is possible for President Trump in partnership with our trusted European allies to secure a lasting peace for Ukraine.

SIDNER: All right, let's go to -- come back to the United States and look at this big, beautiful budget bill that Trump likes to -- that Trump has named the big, beautiful budget bill.

Part of the House Republicans' bill framework is to cut about $880 billion from Medicaid. Can Medicaid survive with a cut that big?

COONS: No. And I met yesterday with Delaware families who depend on Medicaid for the care of their disabled and medically complex children. Children who suffer with very difficult circumstances.

Medicaid does so much for the American people and for Delawareans. It's what helps fund senior care. It's what -- it's what families rely on who have children who are going through Nemours, the ai children's hospital in Delaware. It's what families depend on who have a loved one who is disabled, who is at home.

Medicaid makes such a difference all across our nation and it cannot afford a cut of that magnitude, especially not to pay for another big tax cut for billionaires. SIDNER: Can Democrats do anything to prevent this -- to try to protect Medicaid since you don't have control of the House or the Senate?

COONS: You're right about that, Sara. But in the Affordable Care Act fight of the first Trump administration when Trump was trying to kill the Affordable Care Act, we ultimately got Americans to focus on what was at stake.

Trump is again trying to pass a huge tax cut paid for by cuts to your benefits. And if enough Americans get upset and engaged on this and push back on the Republicans in the House, they have a very thin margin.

[08:00:00]