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UK PM's Oval Office Mission; Fired USAID Employees Return To Collect Belongings; Oscar-Winning Actor Gene Hackman And Wife Found Dead ; Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 27, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:00:34]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: This might get tricky. Right now, the UK Prime Minister is at the White House with a critical but short to-do list. Can Keir Starmer convince President Donald Trump to include Europe in key negotiations on Ukraine? The two set to speak to the press just minutes from now.

Plus, you have 15 minutes to gather all your stuff and get out. We're live outside the USAID headquarters where fired staffers are retrieving their personal belongings as DOGE keeps gutting even more federal agencies.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And Oscar-Winning Actor Gene Hackman, his wife, and dog all found dead in their New Mexico home. We'll have details on the investigation. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News.

SANCHEZ: Breaking news this hour. We are watching a high stakes meeting at the White House between President Donald Trump and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who's on a critical mission today to persuade Trump to maintain U.S. support for Ukraine as part of any peace deal with Russia. That's something that Trump has not yet committed to.

BOLDUAN: Hours before talks were set to begin. We had confirmation that Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, will be meeting with Trump tomorrow here in Washington to potentially sign a deal that would allow the US to act access Kyiv's prized rare earth minerals.

A senior U.S. Official says it does not include any specific security guarantees for Ukraine. And for his part, Zelenskyy says only a framework agreement has been hammered out at this point. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live for us at the White House.

So, Jeff, this is Trump's second sit down here with a key U.S. ally this week. Talk to us about the significance of this meeting today.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It is highly significant. There is no question about it. And the two leaders are in the Oval Office right now beginning their series of meetings. As they were walking into the White House, reporters asked the president if he believes a peace deal can be reached. He said, yes, we can. We will release it, reach it with Russia. But the question is, what role will Europe play in this?

And one question after all of these meetings is what are the security guarantees the United States is offering the European allies. And as of now, the Trump administration, the president himself, have offered very few, if any. There's no question the British Prime Minister, as he was flying to Washington, he told reporters aboard his plane. He's looking for a backstop from the U.S. offering some type of a reassurance if the French sends in troops.

If Great Britain sends in troops and other allies, will the U.S. offer a backstop if Russia invades again? And the answer to that question is going to go a long ways to determining how the next chapter of Ukraine and Russia is going to unfold. But also the U.S. relationship with its Western allies.

So the outcome of this meeting, certainly high stakes, likely the highest stakes of any United Kingdom leader here since the end of the Second World War. So that frames the history and the gravitas of this. But as the French visit from a French President, Emmanuel Macron on Monday indicated, yes, there was a lot of back and forth, but President Trump made no assurances about security guarantees. So they are meeting right now, and they'll have a press conference later.

One early word we're getting from reporters in that Oval Office meeting is that one of the first things that the Prime Minister did was give the President a letter from King Charles inviting him to visit the United Kingdom. And we know from the first administration, the President is very -- he likes the pomp and circumstance of those meetings. We all remember him meeting with the queen. So that was the very first offering from the Prime Minister, inviting him to the UK on behalf of the king. Boris and Brianna.

SANCHEZ: A significant early glimpse as we get more details about this meeting. We are again going to monitor those details as they come in. Jeff, pivoting to what we're anticipating tomorrow, this meeting between Trump and President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, what have you learned about where those negotiations stand right now? Because we're hearing two very different things.

ZELENY: We are. And that is often what you what happens at the end of a negotiation. But it is unclear if we are at the end point of the negotiations. Now, it's clear that the president would not be inviting or welcoming the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy here if there was not some type of a deal. But it is unclear what exactly the outlines of those are because even as late as yesterday, the President in the cabinet meeting here at the White House, he was essentially saying the U.S. would still profit from some of the rare earth's mineral deals, getting a hold of some of those very valuable minerals to essentially pay back the United States.

[13:05:36]

Well, Zelenskyy has said that is a non-starter. So there is an agreement in principle in terms of an investment fund. But we do not believe that they have fully reached a deal yet. We'll perhaps see and learn more about that later today. But security guarantees again are at the heart and the bottom line of all of this.

SANCHEZ: Jeff Zeleny, live for us at the White House. Thank you so much.

A lot of news on the international front and also on the domestic front. For the first time, the nation's highest court is weighing in on President Trump's efforts to overhaul the federal government, namely the deep cuts across government agencies.

Now, last night, Chief Justice John Roberts paused a district court's order that would have forced the Trump administration to release $2 billion in frozen foreign aid. That money would have gone to programs funded by the State Department and USAID.

BOLDUAN: And this is a pause that is coming as a Wednesday court filing shows the Trump administration terminating more than 90% of USAID's foreign aid awards and retaining more than 500 others that amount to about $57 billion. Joining us now to discuss is CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero.

And Carrie, there's this deadline noon tomorrow. Aid groups who are suing the administration have to respond to Robert's temporary freeze. What will the court be looking at after that, and then what are the next steps?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so I think this order by the chief justice to pause things should not be necessarily taken as an indication of which way he actually would rule in it. So in this case, he's just providing a very little bit amount of time, you know, just a couple days here for the parties to come in and brief and explain whether or not he should go forward.

I think this is going to be a real challenge in terms of whether or not the Supreme Court is going to be looking at this very, very narrowly with respect to just USAID and these particular groups that are going to be arguing knowing that there is this bigger picture of this is just one example. And so whatever the court does in this case is going to affect all the other cases potentially that are at issue because this isn't just about USAID. This is about the DOGE's efforts and the Trump administration's efforts more broadly to significantly draw down the whole scope of the federal government as you know.

SANCHEZ: To that point, what will you be looking for in a decision that would sort of illuminate to you how the Supreme Court views the relationship between the executive branch and some of these other branches of government, namely Congress, who is supposed to hold the purse strings, who's allocated this money to be spent and DOGE has come and said, nah.

CORDERO: Right. And that's the big question is how the court is going to navigate this line. So Congress has passed, for example, the Empowerment Act decades ago that limits how supposedly the executive branch is able to reallocate or not go forward with funds that have been appropriated by Congress. And so this really, we are living in an era of constitutional lawmaking where these fundamental checks and balances are taking place. And really, even more important than the question of how the court rules in this particular case, whether it says the administration has to provide these funds or not. I think the big picture issue here is whether or not the administration abides by whatever court decision ends up coming out.

BOLDUAN: Well, to that point, because in the appeal, the Trump administration telling the high court it takes seriously its constitutional duty to comply with the orders of federal courts. When you listen to some of the public comments, that's not what you're getting, though, right? The rhetoric about how, you know, impeaching judges, questions of whether you should defy court orders. I wonder how you see that rhetoric. And we will say it's not unusual for there to be a difference in a legal strategy and then kind of a public affairs strategy, if you will, in Trump world. But why is it significant still the rhetoric?

CORDERO: So I was, well, first on the piece that they put into the legal pleading, I think that's important because what's important for the Trump administration lawyers who are arguing for the court is their credibility is on the line, too. And so I think that was important from their perspective, to communicate to the court in a formal pleading that they intend to abide by court orders. Different members, as you point out, of the Trump administration, have made different messages about courts and judges and so forth. However, I will point out that President Trump did in the press conference he had last week, the one that Elon Musk was in the Oval Office with him. He said, we abide court orders.

[13:10:13]

And so I'm looking at that statement and hoping that is an indication of even though they will push as far as they possibly can and they are going to appeal every single the administration will appeal every single opportunity that they have to achieve what their goals are here, that at the end of the day, when the Supreme Court rules, if it is adverse, they will follow what the president said last week, which is to abide the court orders.

BOLDUAN: Carrie Cordero, thank you so much for your insights. We appreciate it.

And right now, USAID workers who have been fired or placed on leave by the Trump administration they are making this walk, final trips into their former offices in Washington. And they have a very short period of time, just 15 minutes, to gather all of their personal belongings and get out.

SANCHEZ: And as you can see, they are being supported there by onlookers. CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us now live from outside USAID headquarters. What is it like out there, Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the past five hours, we have seen a steady stream of USAID workers exiting the headquarters here in Washington, D.C. This is one of several entrances and exits that are being used by these staffers who have come to collect their belongings. Each department is being provided with a certain time window, and then they're being told to collect their belongings within 15 minutes.

We saw one department out here that decided to all gather together to go in. We saw many tears as they prepared to go clear out their offices. There are people who have carted out suitcases and boxes as well as tote bags of their personal belongings. When they've exited, they've then been greeted by these supporters over here offering applause for their service.

I spoke with one young woman who was impacted who was part of the Presidential Management Fellowship program here at USAID. That fellowship was actually terminated by President Trump via executive order just last week. And here is how she told me she's feeling in this moment.

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SAENZ: So what was it like coming back here today?

JULIANE ALFEN, FIRED USAID EMPLOYEE: Heartbreaking. Walking in the building and seeing all the pictures of our projects being taken that were taking down, like getting children vaccines or providing food aid, things that really matter, being treated as if they're nothing. It's really hard to see.

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SAENZ: And I want to show you one visible sign of protest that we've seen this morning. When we arrived here, there was actually black tape. As you can see, the remnants still there covering the USAID logo here outside of the headquarters. I spoke to one terminated USAID staffer who participated in taking that tape off. She believes that the mission of USAID still exists with so many workers and is holding out hope that there can be some type of assistance like this provided down the road. But this is certainly a very uncertain time for many of the workers here at USAID who are facing termination, layoffs, and administrative leave at a time when there are major guts to the agency itself.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Arlette Saenz outside USAID headquarters in D.C. Thank you so much for that report.

Still to come, with Republicans majority on the line, President Trump wants to play kingmaker in the 2026 midterm elections by opening up his war chest of campaign reserves. Plus, House Speaker Mike Johnson brushing off backlash at Republican town halls over DOGE cuts.

BOLDUAN: And later, legendary actor Gene Hackman, his wife, and his dog all found dead. What we know about the investigation. You're watching CNN News Central. We'll be right back.

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[13:18:17] SANCHEZ: For the first time, House Speaker Mike Johnson is publicly claiming that people showing up at Republican town halls asking angry questions about President Trump's cuts to government jobs are being paid. The speaker is dismissing the blowback. Watch this.

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REP. MIKE JOHNSON, (R) HOUSE SPEAKER: The videos you saw of the town halls were for paid protesters in many of those places. These are Democrats who went to the events early and filled up the seats. If you had, if the videos had panned outside the building --

KAITLIN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: You can't argue they were all paid protesters, though. Mr. Speaker.

JOHNSON: Many of them were. I don't know --

COLLINS: What are you -- a Republican acknowledged they were his constituents. One Republican acknowledged they were constituents.

JOHNSON: One Republican acknowledged they were constituents, that's fantastic. Okay. But they had Democrats come and fill the seats early.

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SANCHEZ: Speaker Johnson insists the DOGE effort cutting thousands of federal jobs and services is what the Republican Party is all about and what Americans want. Let's discuss with Republican Chris Sununu, he's a former governor of New Hampshire.

Governor, thank you so much for being with us. What did you think of Johnson's statement there? Do you think that these folks who are upset about these cuts are paid protesters?

CHRIS SUNUNU, (R) FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: Yes, well, they're organized, absolutely. Look, it's similar to any time you do a controversial vote in a statehouse. All the organizations show up, all the advocates against something show up. You know, they try to -- I don't want to use the word intimidation, but they try to have their voices heard and effectively scare some of these congressmen out of doing what they know they should be doing, which is, you know, approving and moving forward on a lot of these DOGE initiatives.

So, no, that's nothing new. It's whether they're paid organized, however you want to put it. It's very strategic to kind of put pressure on these folks to kind of push back against the DOGE effort. But at the end of the day, America sees something happening. DOGE isn't perfect. They're going to make mistakes. They even say that.

But this is what we have to do, guys. This is not politics. This is math. Somebody owes 36 trillion because a lot of really bad administrations and lazy congressmen and women refused to do their job for the past 25 years. And when you have something like USAID, look, sometimes we're not getting rid of vaccine programs, we're not getting rid of food programs. The State Department is simply saying there's a more accountable and more efficient way to distribute this stuff as opposed to billions and billions of dollars being just funneled out there with no accountability.

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SANCHEZ: To your point about the $34 trillion that are owed, and I just want to point out there is a distinction and a connotation when saying that someone is a paid protester versus, you know, an organization that decided, as you said, to make their voice heard. When it comes to the cut specifically, Speaker Johnson is in an interesting spot, right? He says that he plans to follow Donald Trump's edict to not touch Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. Yet, as you acknowledge, balancing the budget does require some kind of reform, likely entitlement reform. Do you think Republicans can get there and keep that promise of not touching those very expensive programs?

SUNUNU: Yes. I don't think they have touch the entitlements anytime soon. I think probably within the next five to eight years they do. And the way you balance the budget is to say, okay, we've -- they're going to get a huge chunk of these efficiencies and cuts in the next, let's say 18 months, right? DOGE has an 18-month existence, so to say. And then there'll be a growth model here, and then there'll be some natural changes to the entitlement's likely way down the road.

It's nothing President Trump has to worry about or touch. It's not even anything Congress have to touch. I'm a believer in the balanced budget amendment. So that whatever is done today, all this hard work that the President and DOGE is doing, all these arrows that they're taking, right, they're doing the hard work today so it lasts into perpetuity. And that's what the American people really want. We don't want another administration coming along and printing more money and creating more inflation and putting us back into debt after they've done all this hard work.

So the best thing they could do is a balanced budget amendment that simply says over the next 10 years, we will design the programs to get us there. But, you know, for those who are scared of entitlement reform and all that. I don't think it's nearly scary as it needs to be, but it's probably nothing that has to be touched today. But ultimately, everybody knows that's going to have to be on the table in the long run. You don't have to affect anybody's benefits today.

By the way, Social Security. Let's talk about this Social Security, if nothing is done to it, benefits get cut to about 83% of what they are today by law. That's already in law about 10 years from now when it goes bankrupt. So who's going to fix it? Who's going to protect the benefits?

So that reform has to happen is my point, because otherwise, everyone watching today, if you're on Social Security, your benefits are getting cut if Congress doesn't do anything in the next eight years.

SANCHEZ: So any kind of entitlement reform comes with political risk because it means less spending on those entitlements. Donald Trump is a lame duck, at least in theory. He can't run for another term. Do you think it's incumbent on him to do the politically unpopular thing and put the nation on a path to avoid bankruptcy? Do you think he should bite the bullet politically essentially?

SUNUNU: Yes. I don't think you -- so the answer is yes and no. I don't think that's as politically risky as people think. And he doesn't need to do it. This is what I would do. I'd say you guys are going to live in a new balance, but with a new balanced budget amendment. We're going to codify that into perpetuity. We're going to set up a commission over the next two years with and you don't do it alone. You don't do it with just Republicans.

Republicans and Democrats come together. I'd bring in AARP. I'd bring in a lot of the advocacy groups that are concerned about entitlement reform. Let them be part of the process. Let them design the solution, so to say. Because Medicare goes bankrupt, guys, Social Security goes bankrupt. That's reality in about eight to 10 years. So it has to be fixed somehow.

It doesn't need to be fixed today. But he would get a lot of credit. Not political bullets, so to say, but a credit for starting that process and forcing America to live within its means. It would ensure that America stays on top of its game economically and on the world stage, into perpetuity. And that's an amazing win. It's not going to be easy, but even just starting that process doesn't hurt the president. It helps him.

SANCHEZ: I do want to ask you, before we go, about DOGE in itself because after the election, you talked about wanting DOGE to create lasting change beyond making just recommendations to Congress. But we are hearing from Republicans on Capitol Hill, as well as Cabinet secretaries and folks at the top of these agencies, concerned about the way that DOGE has conducted some of its work. These firings and then rehirings and the freezing of funds. They want more transparency and more involvement in the process. There's obviously a lot of unanswered questions, and you could argue that there should be accountability for example, getting rid of the folks that oversee the nuclear arsenal, only to rehire them later. Do you think that DOGE needs to slow down?

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SUNUNU: So I think what's going to happen is this. DOGE has come in hard and fast for the first couple of months. While some of these agency heads aren't even confirmed yet. Most of them are there, and they're just kind of getting in there. Their teams are just getting in there.

So DOGE is going to go hard and fast and kind of clear the decks, almost whiteboard a lot of this out. Then as the agency heads come in over the next six months to 12 months, they're going to start saying, okay, this program was cut by DOGE. So if we really want it back, we have to justify its existence. And they can bring it back with maybe a new mission, more accountability, more efficiency that DOGE is looking for.

So DOGE is doing kind of the hard work up front, clearing the decks. This new administration will come in, the new leadership, they're literally just getting into their offices this past couple of weeks, and they'll take six to 12 months to kind of build things back up in a much more efficient way while clearing out all of the fat. So it's a process. It's not going to happen overnight. And with those teams coming in, those individual agencies will then drive a lot of the decisions, a lot of the communication to Congress, and a lot of the additional transparency, the receipts, right.

We talk about, where's the receipt for this, where's the receipt for that? They said that this many people are getting, you know, Social Security benefits. Prove it to us.

Well, now we have the time and the teams in there that are more in place. I think a lot of people still forget we're not even two months in, right? We're not even two months in. It's really incredible.

So DOGE's job is to go hard, fast. They'll take all the political arrow, so to say, and then let the teams do the cleanup.

SANCHEZ: Governor Chris Sununu, we have to leave the conversation there. Look forward to the next one. Thanks.

SUNUNU: You bet. Anytime.

SANCHEZ: From the birdcage to the firm and the conversation, Gene Hackman was a Hollywood heavyweight. Ahead, we're going to look at his life and legacy and what we know about the circumstances surrounding his death. We're back in just moments.

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