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Judge: Mass Firings of Federal Probationary Workers "Likely Unlawful"; RFK Jr. Downplays Measles Outbreak, Doctors Say He's Wrong; Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy Saying FAA Will be Hiring More Air Traffic Controllers; President Trump to Meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy; President Trump Touting Potential Deal with Ukraine to Extract Rare Earth Minerals from Country; France and U.K. May Propose Security Guarantees for Ukraine against Russia during negotiations to end Russia-Ukraine war. Aired 8-8:30a ET.

Aired February 28, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Duffy insists he will also make the hiring process easier, trimming an eight-step process into a five-step process.

Of course, much of this has to do with ending diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives under Trump. Duffy says workers will be hired on merit. DEI hiring for controllers was in place under both Republican and Democratic administrations, and that includes Trump's first term.

Elon Musk posted on X Thursday that there is a shortage of top notch air traffic controllers, and he made a plea to those who have retired. Musk told them if they are open to returning to work, please consider doing so. Here's the challenge. There's a mandatory retirement age for air traffic controllers, currently set at 56 years old. Duffy says he's interested in changing it, but there's not really a big appetite for that at the powerful controllers' union. The National Air Traffic Controllers Association says upping the retirement age would delay the retirement of only 49 controllers across 35 different facilities over the next year, not enough to fill what the union estimates is a shortage of 3,600 controllers.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soon, President Trump and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will meet face to face at the White House to hold high stakes talks that could mean the difference for Ukraine's fate. A U.S. judge is temporarily halting any mass firings of federal probationary workers at some agencies. We're going to tell you why the judge is calling the layoffs illegal.

And a teenager's revenge plot gone wrong. We're going to tell you what happened when the girl tried to take revenge on an ex-boyfriend's car.

I'm Omar Jimenez with Sara Sidner. Kate and John are off. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We are standing by for Ukrainian President

Zelenskyy to arrive at the White House for high stakes talks with President Trump. This meeting could help determine Ukraine's future depending on the outcome. Trump wants a deal where the U.S. can get its hands on Ukraine's rare earth minerals to pay for the U.S. role in the war. But Zelenskyy is hoping for U.S. military assurances against another Russian invasion, an issue Trump has not committed to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: The president has said he wants to have soldiers there. I don't think we're going to even be necessary.

I have a very good relationship with President Putin. I think I have a very good relationship with President Zelenskyy. And now we're, you know, we're doing the deal, and we're going to be in there. We're going to be actually in there and digging, digging our hearts out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: CNN chief national security correspondent Alex Marquardt joining us now to lead off the hour. OK, Alex, Zelenskyy is arriving in Washington and he, over the past several weeks, the banter between him and Donald Trump has been contentious at the least. But yesterday Trump seemed to really sort of soften his tone, or feign forgetting his harsh words for Zelenskyy. What are you expecting to happen today?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is an extraordinarily important visit for Zelenskyy. The future of his country really hangs in the balance, Sara, and I do think we will see a softer tone from both men who, as you say, have had some pretty sharp language in the past few weeks. President Trump calling President Zelenskyy a dictator. He walked that back yesterday, saying, I can't believe I said that.

I think what we're going to see is both men portraying this deal today as a major win. It is certainly a win for President Zelenskyy. He gets to give President Trump one of these deals that he so often seeks. He's getting a meeting with President Trump ahead of the eventual meeting with President Putin. And that is notable.

We'll also see President Trump standing up there saying, this is a great deal. We will be able to recoup tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in U.S. military assistance, though it's still unclear right now, Sara, how that's going to happen. But against the backdrop of all this is that major question about security guarantees. So as they portray this as a win, President Zelenskyy will continue the efforts of the European leaders we saw earlier this week from France, from Great Britain, to try to get the U.S. to continue not just military assistance, but provide military guarantees so that when there is a ceasefire, when there is a peace deal, that Russia will not just be able to wait and invade again.

We've heard the brits, the French and others talk about peacekeepers on the ground, their jets in the skies. We have not heard any firm commitment from the U.S. president. And this deal, this minerals deal that is being rolled out today, does not have anything about security guarantees. So that is a major mission for President Zelenskyy today, Sara.

SIDNER: When you talk about the minerals, Trump says were going to be in there digging. He's trumpeted this as a big windfall that could possibly pay for sort of the United States giving arms and et cetera, et cetera, to Ukraine, arms and money. What do you know about what is really there and what Ukraine really has access to?

[08:05:00]

MARQUARDT: This deal is extremely vague. It's essentially an agreement to talk about a deal down the line in which the specifics will be talked about. It is not clear, frankly, what Ukraine has in terms of both rare earth minerals, which we've heard President Trump talk about so much, and other critical minerals. What we do know, these maps that we've seen, like we're showing right there, a lot of that is based on old data. It's based on surveys from the Soviet era.

And in talking to current and former officials as well as experts, Sara, they will tell you that most of the most significant deposits of minerals that have the most potential are in the eastern part of the country, where the fighting is ongoing, areas that are covered in mines and unexploded ordnance, areas that are occupied by the Russians. And so that will be very, very difficult to exploit.

Yes, Ukraine does have these vast deposits of things that are more common, like graphite, lithium, titanium, but in comparison to other countries, their stores are actually quite low. And when and the U.S. Geological Survey actually says that there are zero proven reserves of these rare earth minerals. So it is very unclear what the U.S. will eventually be able to get, what the two countries will actually be able to extract. It is extremely time-consuming, extremely expensive to dig this stuff up and to process it. So we're at the very, very early stages of a deal, and we really don't know how this is going to unfold, Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, we do know that Trump keeps saying he's going to send in personnel, not military personnel, but some kind of personnel. And when you say some of this is happening in the eastern part of the country where we both have been, that is extremely dangerous territory. Alex Marquardt, thank you so much, really appreciate your reporting this morning.

Omar?

JIMENEZ: Lots to talk about. Here with us now is former CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty and CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier. Thank you both for being here. Kim, I'll start with you. What are you looking for in this coming Zelenskyy meeting here?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I'm looking for two men who are going to be playing nice for the cameras, even though they have a lot of animus towards each other. But I'm also looking for -- Trumps' team knows that the way to get to him is through commerce. And I think they've sold him this deal in terms of, you know, we'll be able to make money off of this. You can tell your base that you're getting the money back for the U.S. investment. But down the line, it's not Ukraine that has to lobby for security guarantees. If Trump wants U.S. companies to go in and exploit whatever U.S. geological scientists find in terms of rare earth minerals, they're going to demand a secure, stable security environment. And that means supporting whatever peacekeeping forces, be they British or French, on the ground continuing with the intelligence, surveillance, the geospatial intelligence that the U.S. is currently providing Ukrainian forces to keep that place safe and keep the Russians out.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, Jill, Trump has called Zelenskyy a dictator, even if he tried to walk it back, and says he trusts Putin won't violate a peace deal. And then you have Zelenskyy, who likely feels the opposite on both fronts. But also he's here looking for reassurances that the United States still has his back. Where does he start with Trump? And even if Trump trusts Putin, is he not alone in that, at least among allies?

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, I think Zelenskyy really has a difficult task. So in a way he has to reset the relationship with President Trump. He has to make sure that Trump understands that this is life or death for Ukraine. And I think he probably will want to undermine that faith that President Trump seems to have in President Putin, because that that's kind of key here. President Trump is saying, I think Putin will keep his word. And why? Because we both went through the so-called Russia hoax, which was the interference by Russia in the 2016 election.

And so I think of this, Omar, almost as kind of a triangle. You've got this deal which is the minerals deal over here, really not a major part. When you look at it rationally, it shouldn't be a major part of what we're talking about. Then you have Ukraine. How do you solve that? And then you have, uh, Trump's relationship with Putin and resetting the U.S. Russia relationship.

So there are a lot of moving parts to this. And Zelenskyy is going to have to try to really establish this relationship, keep it going, but also stand up for his country. And that's going to be very, very hard.

[08:10:00]

JIMENEZ: And Kim, you know, this, of course, comes on the heels of French President Emmanuel Macron, who visited U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, also visited the White House this week. The goal was clearly to see if there was any sort of progress towards some form of security guarantees from the United States, if there is any peace deal struck with Russia. I mean, despite all the handshaking and smiling this week, did Europe make any substantial headway into that effort this week?

DOZIER: Well, the two positive meetings by the French and the British leaders mean that, at the very least, Trump has embraced the concept of peace keepers, NATO peacekeepers on the ground inside Ukraine. At least those are NATO countries, if not flying under the NATO banner. And Russia, while the Moscow spokesman and others have said, no, we would never allow any NATO forces inside Ukraine, has gone quiet on that in the past few days, as if to understand the Brits and the French have won this round, and they're going to bring it up at the negotiating table next and not be too public about it, because anyone who defies Trump publicly, he lashes out at, as Zelenskyy discovered to his peril almost 10 days ago, um, when he said that the Russian -- that Trump seems to be susceptible to Russian disinformation.

So right now, it looks like things are going in the right direction for Ukraine, but it is a very delicate balance. And the only thing that I think Russia is trying to get out of it at this point is a seat back at the world table on the G-7, et cetera, investment, and lifting of sanctions. But I've got to just mention, the Trump administration just extended some of those sanctions against Russia for another year. So that leaves Moscow with something to play for.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Jill Dougherty, Kim Dozier, really appreciate the time and perspective. Thanks for being here.

Sara?

SIDNER: All right, ahead, new this morning, a judge blocked some of President Trump's mass firings of federal workers. What this means for DOGE's sweeping and aggressive actions across the country.

Plus, fighting disinformation over the measles outbreak, local health officials having to push back against HHS secretary RFK Jr.

And when a dozen or even a half dozen eggs may break the bank, some sellers are letting you buy three eggs, just three, at a time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're selling for $12, $11. We decided to sell loose eggs, you know, like this package. Three, $2.99 for these three eggs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:22]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Welcome back.

New this morning a federal judge is blocking efforts by the Trump administration and the Department of Government Efficiency to slash the federal workforce. Now, the judge in San Francisco ruled the mass firings of probationary federal employees are, "likely unlawful."

Now, labor unions and nonprofits are suing on behalf of thousands of probationary employees who have lost their jobs.

I want to bring in Kevin Owen. He's an employment attorney who represents federal workers. Thank you for being here.

You know, to this point, you've compared this initiative to the kind of disruptions that are typically caused by government shutdowns. What do you mean by that?

KEVIN OWEN, EMPLOYMENT ATTORNEY WHO REPRESENTS FEDERAL WORKERS: So, in the CHCO memo that was issued by OPM two days ago outlining these mass layoffs, what the OPM is saying is that employees who are typically not designated as essential during a lapse in appropriations are the ones that are going to be targeted for these mass layoffs.

In 2016, we saw 800,000 federal employees nationwide laid off during the lapse in appropriations for a government shutdown. And so, what Americans can be looking for here is the type of shutdown that lasted in the fall of 2016, which closed National Parks, closed Social Security agency offices, and really deprived Americans of the federal services that they're used to.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, one of the other things you've said previously is that their plan at this point is to get sued. What do you mean by that?

OWEN: So, they're not going through the normal processes legally that you would expect to happen by law, rule, or regulation. What they're doing is they're taking steps that are clearly unlawful on their face, taking thousands of employees out of their jobs and then the employees are going to have to sue.

The plan then appears to be to lose the cases, potentially have to pay out. But at that point, all of the federal employees are off the rolls and they have gotten what they wanted in the interim, which is to reduce the federal workforce by 50 percent, maybe even 65 percent.

JIMENEZ: So, you represent some of these federal workers that could be affected or maybe have been affected. But what are you telling them legally? I mean, what options do they have here?

OWEN: So, a lot of them are still on the rolls. And so, they don't yet have the right to file the lawsuits. We are waiting until something next happens to take them off the pay status. And at that point we are looking at class action cases, consolidated appeals to the Merit Systems Protection Board, dozens and maybe even hundreds of lawsuits to be filed within a couple of weeks.

JIMENEZ: And so, obviously, we're keeping an eye on this ruling, this ruling significant, obviously, appeals play into this process as well.

But are there specific rulings that that you have your eye on or specific cases that you think are going to be especially significant in regards to some of the workers that you represent?

[08:20:16]

OWEN: Yes, the top two are the are the federal court case out in San Francisco of AFGE versus OPM, that just came out last night with that temporary restraining order and the one that I'm mostly following is the temporary restraining order that was issued by the Merit Systems Protection Board, which is a federal agency that deals with these kinds of cases a couple of days ago, ordering restraining orders at the request of the United States' Office of Special Counsel. There are administrative procedures and administrative agencies that haven't really even gotten into working these issues, which are going to be very central and important to addressing these issues going forward.

JIMENEZ: Kevin Owen, really appreciate the time. Thanks for being here.

OWEN: Thank you for having me.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

Meanwhile, there's a growing divide between Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert Kennedy, Jr. and local doctors dealing with a now deadly measles outbreak. Could this impact the fight to control the spread of the disease?

And questions and concerns over the Tate brothers return to the United States and whether President Trump's administration had anything to do with it. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:25:39]

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: Health officials in West Texas are dealing with a measles outbreak. It may be at odds with newly appointed Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Measles has already killed one unvaccinated child. The country's first death from the disease in a decade.

The Secretary clarified the situation in Texas is not unusual, a sentiment not shared by the doctors who are trying to deal with this on the ground.

CNN's Meg Tirrell has more of RFK's response to this outbreak.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT: The fact that we've allowed it to come roaring back like this in Texas is just unconscionable.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Health officials on the ground in Texas, at odds with newly appointed HHS Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., amid a bubbling. Measles outbreak in the Western part of the State, now including the country's first death from the disease in a decade.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., U.S. SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: There are about 20 people hospitalized mainly for quarantine.

DR. LARA JOHNSON, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, COVENANT HEALTH LUBBOCK SERVICE AREA: We don't hospitalize patients for quarantine purposes. We admit patients who need acute supportive treatment in our hospital. KENNEDY JR.: There have been four measles outbreaks this year in this country. Last year, there were 16. So, it's not unusual.

DR. AMY JOHNSON, CEO, COVENANT HEALTH LUBBOCK SERVICE AREA: This is a vaccine preventable disease that we had eradicated and --

TIRRELL (voice over): That's what does make this unusual. Ever since the vaccine was introduced in 1963, cases of measles in the United States have plummeted, getting so low measles was declared eliminated in this country in the year 2000. And that's because two doses of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine or MMR are highly safe and effective.

DR. L. JOHNSON: We're very lucky to have an extremely effective vaccine for measles and having two doses of measles vaccine confers 97 percent lifetime immunity.

If you're unvaccinated. If you're around someone who has the illness, you have a 90 percent chance of becoming ill from the virus.

TIRRELL (voice over): That's exactly what we've seen here, with all of the hospitalized patients in this outbreak, being unvaccinated, the worry now is that with a virus this contagious, it will continue to spread through communities where vaccination rates have dropped.

The measles virus can linger in the air for two hours after an infected person has left the room, making Texas health experts especially concerned about mass gatherings, like the upcoming rodeo in Houston, which may bring together more than 100,000 people a day. And that's why local hospital officials continue to. push one message.

DR. L. JOHNSON: I would get a vaccine. Because that's going to be the best protection.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TIRRELL (on camera): One person who's not explicitly recommending vaccination is Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

We sent multiple inquiries to the Department of Health and Human Services asking if the Secretary recommends that people get vaccinated against measles amid this deadly outbreak in Texas.

They acknowledged our inquiry, but ultimately, just sent back a statement that ignored that question and linked to a CDC statement on the measles outbreak, which did acknowledge, "Vaccination remains the best defense against measles infection," but also noted that supportive care, including Vitamin A administration under the direction of a physician may be appropriate, which doctors tell us is true, but is unusual to see right up there with vaccination in a statement like this.

SIDNER: All right, our thanks to Meg Tirrell.

This morning, Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy will be talking more about the long-negotiated deal to try to bring Ukraine's rare earth materials to the United States. But how big will that haul actually be?

And what pandas know about eating that could unlock a healthier lifestyle for us?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]