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Trump and Zelenskyy to Meet for Crucial Talks; Kurt Volker is Interviewed about a New Russian Ambassador to the U.S.; New Information in Gene and Betsy Hackman's Deaths; Dr. Jennifer Shuford is Interviewed about the Measles Outbreak. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 28, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: From last September. And officials do warn, excited drivers, be patient. It's one lane, both ways, and the speed limit, 35 miles per hour. But it will be open as permanent repairs are underway as well.

All right, a revenge plan gone wrong. Florida authorities say a teenage girl, mad at her ex-boyfriend, thought it would be a good idea to take revenge this way, by spray painting the car. She also threw some eggs. So, apparently she's got money. The problem? That's not his car. It's the neighbors car. Authorities say the teen and her friend decided to spray paint and throw eggs at what they thought was her boyfriend's vehicle. That teen now facing criminal mischief and DUI charges. Investigators charged her friend with possession of marijuana.

All right, a programing note for you, join Roy Wood Jr., Amber Ruffin and Michael Ian Black as they serve up a smart take on the news of the week, tomorrow night at 9:00, and streaming next day on Max.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

The stakes could not be higher between President Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy. They could sign an historic deal on Ukraine's rare earth minerals as Ukraine's fate is hanging in the balance.

Plus, what we're learning about the deaths of Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy, in what authorities are now calling suspicious circumstances. They were found dead in separate rooms, along with their dog. And the sheriff says they may have been there for weeks.

And almost a month after the deadliest aviation incident in nearly 25 years, a special way to honor the victims, many of them figure skating budding stars.

I'm Sara Sidner, with Omar Jimenez. John and Kate are off today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening soon, a critical face to face meeting with the world watching. The fate of Ukraine's future on the line as President Trump soon welcomes Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy for critical talks at the White House. Now on the table today, a rare earth minerals deal that President Trump says the two will sign. Zelenskyy, though, wants U.S. security guarantees against Russia. An issue Trump has said likely won't be necessary, saying just yesterday that he trusts Russia will keep their word.

I want to bring in chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto now.

I mean, Jim, it's almost hard to put into words how high these stakes are and the global impact of this meeting and potentially what comes out of this meeting. What are you watching for?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Listen, you know, it's ridiculous. We're in a situation here where what might come out of this is perhaps the U.S. president acknowledging that Russia invaded Ukraine, which is - which is a fact. He's been reluctant to do that and had his U.N. ambassador vote against a resolution that rightly identified Russia as the aggressor in its invasion of Ukraine. He'll be pressed on that today, I imagine. Whether he moves at all, unclear.

Also, will he not refer to Zelenskyy as a dictator? Of course, the elected leader of Ukraine. He's backed off that charge from last week somewhat, or at least he denied saying that or claimed he didn't remember saying that. I imagine he'll be pressed again on that, and will he somehow find a friendlier way to describe Zelenskyy, who the U.S. has been helping defend itself, right, for these last three years? I mean the bar is so low in this relationship right now that those two things would be a move in a positive direction, right, from the perspective of Ukraine.

For this mineral deal, you know, it's interesting, "The Wall Street Journal" refers it today as a - as a deal that Ukraine, in effect, can't refuse. Ukraine, it seems, feels pressure to sign this just to keep open the possibility of a security guarantee, right, because President Trump and the Trump administration has not been willing to attach those two things together. Zelenskyy is hoping that this improves the relationship in some way so that President Trump gets there eventually.

But right now, the quite public position of the president and the administration has been, it's not America's problem that any security guarantees really will have to come from Europe. And again, it just shows how much the bar has moved on this relationship and the war from President Trump's perspective.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, this meeting comes on the tail end of - we saw French President Emmanuel Macron, U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, all over again that - that issue of trying to have some sort of security guarantees on any deal that is potentially struck here.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

JIMENEZ: If a deal is not struck on that front, does Europe even have the capability to do this on their own without the Americans?

SCIUTTO: Yes. It doesn't have the same capability. The U.S. is just such a bear, right? I mean the military is bigger than - than anyone's, and by multiples compared to Europe.

[09:05:04]

Europe does have capabilities. It is spending more on its own defense. And you've heard a number of European countries, particularly the eastern facing NATO allies, the ones closest to the Russia threat, who have consistently have been most concerned about the Russia threat, we're talking about the Baltic states, Poland, et cetera., being willing to step up. So, you're hearing from these leaders, from - from the German chancellor, the new expected German chancellor coming in, the U.K. prime minister, the French President Macron, that they are willing and able to back up Ukraine. They don't have the same resources. But it seems that they're willing to step into this vacuum here that the U.S. has created. And we'll see, right? What we do know is that without any help, the worst predictions from folks I speak to in the Pentagon is that perhaps Ukraine can maintain its defense for a number of months, six - six months. And remember, Omar, you know, this is a - it's an existential question from Ukraine's perspective because from their view, if they can't defend themselves, they lose their country. They don't just lose a little bit of it. They fear that they lose their country to Russia, which we should remind people, was Russia's intention when it began this full-scale invasion three years ago.

JIMENEZ: Jim Sciutto, always appreciate the time and reporting.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

JIMENEZ: Sara.

SIDNER: All right, CNN chief global affairs correspondent Matthew Chance joining me now from Moscow, where the Kremlin is certainly watching and waiting to see what happens in this meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy. But they certainly were cheering Trump when he called Zelenskyy a dictator.

But first, Matthew, you just heard an announcement from Russia just moments ago. What's going on? What did you hear?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so there's been bilateral talks between the United States and Russia over the past couple of days. There was a session held in Turkey yesterday, in Istanbul in Turkey, where they discussed kind of, you know, rebuilding each other's, you know, the embassy and the diplomatic sort of corps in each other's countries, which has been whittled away over the years because of the Ukraine war and other issues as well.

It's been announced, within the past few minutes, that the Russians have finally appointed a new ambassador to the United States. He hasn't gone there yet. Obviously, he was at these talks yesterday. But it's been since October, when Russia last had an ambassador in the United States.

Theres also, you know, a move been put forward to try and, you know, bolster the embassies in both countries so they can rebuild their diplomatic staff there. I mean, anecdotally, I can tell you that the U.S. embassy here in Moscow, which is designed to take hundreds of people, has got such a skeleton staff in place right now, that senior diplomats are having to do the cleaning. They're not even able to hire outside staff to clean the corridors. And so that's the sort of low level of staffing at the embassy here in Russia right now. And I expect there's something similar taking place over in the United States as well. So - so, this is a step towards addressing that deficit.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, it's - that's a really interesting point you just made there, that they're looking at - they've appointed a new ambassador to the United States. Something that has been unwelcome in the U.S. until the Trump administration was put in place. We will see what happens there.

Matthew Chance, thank you so much. Really appreciate your reporting there from Russia for us.

And with me now is Kurt Volker. He is the former U.S. ambassador to NATO and the former U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine negotiations in the first Trump administration.

First, let me get your reaction to what we just heard from Matthew Chance, who is in Moscow now, just hearing that they have appointed an ambassador to the United States. Is it a good idea for the U.S. to bring back and allow a Russian ambassador back into the country?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, I think you have to look at all these pieces together. What President Trump is trying to do is get Russia to stop the war in Ukraine. And so he's offering both sticks and carrots.

On the stick side, you know, we can talk about that, but sanctions are still in place, trying to drive down energy prices, continuing to arm Ukraine, perhaps. And then on the carrot side, something like allowing a new ambassador to be there and regularizing the embassy. So he's trying to maneuver this to get Russia to get to an agreement to stop the war. So it's, you know, it's -- it's a judgment call. You know, you have an ambassador. Russia is doing some terrible things. But at the same time, if you can use this to get an end to the war, maybe it's worth it.

SIDNER: Senator Jeanne Shaheen, we just spoke to last hour, and she said that Trump is falling for Putin, who is manipulating him and sort of tricking him into trusting him. And Trump says he trusts Putin. Is she right?

VOLKER: Well, I don't know, because everything Trump has done so far has actually been maneuvering Russia and moving things toward the possibility of an end to the fighting in the war. Trump has said that he trusts Putin, but that doesn't mean he does.

[09:10:03]

That may also be a tactic on his part. SIDNER: We are seeing this idea of a deal that Trump says is pretty much a done deal that will be signed when President Zelenskyy comes to the White House, and that's going to happen in just a bit from now. What do you make of this minerals deal? Because in looking at where some of these rare earth materials are in Ukraine, they're in the majority of it in the eastern part of Ukraine, where the fighting is still happening, where there are landmines, and where reporters are saying, look, it's one of the most dangerous places that you can go. And the president's talking about sending U.S. personnel into Ukraine to help dig out these materials. Is this realistic?

VOLKER: I do think it's realistic. It's not only there that you have these minerals. And the deal is broader than that. It includes natural resources generally, including oil and gas as well, which are a much quicker win, if you will. And in terms of what this does, it provides a way for President Trump to tell the American people that Ukraine is paying its way. It's no longer charity. It's no longer aid to Ukraine. It's a deal between our two countries, and it's a partnership.

For President Zelenskyy, it gets the U.S. invested in Ukraine. So we now have a stake in their success as well, which is a much stronger position to be in than just providing aid and waiting and seeing what happens.

And as far as the economics go, it is very difficult for Ukraine right now, because of the ongoing war, to gain any value out of these natural resources. So the way this is being pitched is that, you know, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. And it's a win-win in this way for both countries to do this.

SIDNER: Mr. Volker, what do you think of the argument that much of the funds, if you will, given to Ukraine go back to the United States? They pay for the munitions. They pay for some of the companies that are sending over these munitions and military apparatus to Ukraine.

VOLKER: Yes. So I think this is normal, in a sense. If you have a country that has resources, they can buy weapons and support, and they can use that to defend themselves. And I think from President Trump's perspective, this is more fair as a sustainable issue for the United States, for the American people, the United States to work with Ukraine on a fair basis to provide support and to be paid back for the support that's given. That means it's not coming out of taxpayers' pockets. That means that it is not something that should be politically difficult to continue for as far as the eye can see.

SIDNER: Is everything OK back there? I'm just checking on you. It sounds like there's a wild animal in your house.

VOLKER: No, no, it's fine. There's people coming and going --

SIDNER: OK.

VOLKER: -- as we're talking here. But thank you.

SIDNER: OK. Just making sure. It just seemed a little wild back there. I wanted to check on you. Lastly, I do want to ask you about these tariffs that Trump has that he's going to impose on Europe. Is it a good idea to sort of start making hay and making waves with Europe as he's trying to do this deal to try and make a deal with Ukraine to try and deal with -- to Russia to some degree?

VOLKER: Yeah, these are all different moving pieces which are coming together at the moment, but there's tremendously high risk as well. So you're focusing on the European side of this. What President Trump wants is for our European allies to take on a bigger share of the burden and for them to provide security guarantees to Ukraine, possibly with some kind of U.S. backup. That's all in order to prevent Putin from attacking again.

To be threatening tariffs on our European allies at exactly the same time is troubling to our European allies, irritating them. And I think that these issues can be dealt with and can be done separately.

For example, Europe has already lowered the tariffs on U.S. automobiles that would come in to Europe in order to even out the tariffs with the United States. But it is troubling to see that just as we are getting these pieces coming together, a ceasefire in Ukraine, reciprocity in terms of the economics with Ukraine, deterrence from Europe, burden sharing, that this could all still come apart.

SIDNER: Always the consummate Ambassador, someone who is diplomatic to his core, Kurt Volker. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you coming on. Have a great weekend.

VOLKER: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

SIDNER: Omar.

JIMENEZ: All right, a legal blow to the Trump administration's mass firings. We're going to tell you why a federal judge blocked some of the layoffs, and what it means for federal workers today. But does that ruling come too late for many who have already been impacted by the administration's purge?

[09:15:01]

We're going to speak with the fired worker who just lost her job days before giving birth.

And new details this morning surrounding the death of two-time Academy Award winner Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy. What we know about what police are calling suspicious circumstances.

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SIDNER: New details this morning about the investigation into the death of Hollywood legend Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy. The Santa Fe County Sheriff telling NBC the couple were likely dead there for days or even weeks before they were discovered Wednesday afternoon in their Santa Fe, New Mexico, home. [09:20:11]

And their dog was dead, too. While officials say there are no obvious signs of foul play, they also say the bodies were found in circumstances that were suspicious enough to demand a thorough investigation.

CNN's Josh Campbell is in Santa Fe, outside the sheriff's department headquarters for us this morning.

What are you learning this morning about the investigation? Because for a lot of people, it does seem odd at the very least.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, my friend, good to be with you.

And we got important information from the sheriff late yesterday. What he said is that the medical examiner has actually conducted autopsies on both Gene Hackman, as well as his wife, Betsy. They say the initial assessment has determined there are no external signs of trauma. They have ordered tests to look for things like carbon monoxide poisoning, as well as toxicology reports, which are pretty standard in these cases where you have a death that takes place under suspicious circumstances. But this, obviously, a tragedy, but also a mystery.

And just to kind of walk you through how this happened. On Wednesday, a 911 call came in here to the sheriff's office by a caretaker at Hackman's home. And sheriff deputies responded. They found Betsy in a bathroom on the floor. She was surrounded by pills that were scattered about. As you mentioned, the German shepherd was found in the closet, also deceased. And in another room, Gene Hackman himself. So, authorities have launched this investigation to try to determine what - what caused all of this, to try to come up with some type of timeline.

So, we're talking about two investigations going on at the same time. You have the sheriff's department investigation and then the medical examiner's investigation.

Now, authorities say that at this point it doesn't look like there is any foul play. There were no signs of any type of struggle. Nothing was taken from the home. When authorities arrived, the door was actually open. So, a lot of work that's going on behind the scenes right now to try to get the community some answers.

Gene Hackman had, obviously, been out of the spotlight for many years, retiring from Hollywood long ago. Not much has been seen of him. We did get a new video that was taken just about a year ago, where you see him coming out of a shopping center here in the Santa Fe area. Nevertheless, obviously a revered member of this community. And the sheriff's department says they're trying to get the community answers.

It's also worth pointing out, Sara, that this is not the first high- profile death investigation that authorities here have worked. This is the very same investigative team that handled the "Rust" movie shooting investigation involving Alec Baldwin. So, they're used to conducting, you know, these high-profile cases. They understand that a lot of people out there want answers.

SIDNER: Yes. We're looking at some video of Gene Hackman, who has - has been pretty reclusive ever since he sort of left Hollywood 20 years ago, enjoying his life in Santa Fe with his wife.

All right, thank you so much, Josh Campbell. I know you'll stay on this for us. It's good to see you, my friend.

Over to you, Omar.

JIMENEZ: Well, the United States first measles death in over a decade is ringing alarm bells as newly appointed Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. seemed to downplay the spreading disease. We're going to talk to a doctor in Texas working to curb the spike in cases. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:43]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: There have been four measles outbreaks this year in this country. Last year there were 16. So, it's not unusual. We have measles outbreaks every year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: So, that was the newly appointed secretary of Health and Human Services, RFK Jr., seeming to downplay the measles outbreak, which has now killed one unvaccinated child in west Texas, with reports of 146 measles cases now being seen across several states. And the number of cases going into the hundreds, many doctors are concerned by the seeming casual response to these reports, and the Department of Health is also ignoring repeated questions on whether RFK Jr. recommends people get vaccinated against measles.

A lot to get into here.

Joining me now is the Commissioner for the Texas Department of State Health Services, Dr. Jennifer Shuford. Thank you for being here.

Can you just tell me what the situation is right now in your state, where you all are confirmed cases-wise, and if there's a particular age or demographic you're seeing cases most often?

DR. JENNIFER SHUFORD, COMMISSIONER, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF STATE HEALTH SERVICES: Sure. We are seeing a worrying, expanding outbreak of measles in our Panhandle and South Plains region of our state, which is on the western part of our state. We are seeing -- we've seen 146 confirmed cases so far. There's other suspect cases -- cases that we're still trying to test, and cases that we know have not been tested and are going uncounted.

And so this is actually larger than our confirmed count case, and it continues to grow. Right now, about 50% of those cases are in school- age kids. So age 15 to -- I mean, I'm sorry 5 to 17 years old. But we're seeing a good number in infants as well, those kids less than one year old, about 10% in those kids, where we know they can have really serious outcomes. And so it is something that we're concerned about, that we're following closely and trying to intervene on.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, the average measles outbreak since 2020 has been limited to six cases over an average of 20 days. Obviously, this West Texas outbreak has doubled that largest outbreak from the last five years over the course of just a month, and the largest in Texas in decades.

[09:30:04]

What are you all doing at the state level to try and -- to try and contain this? And do you feel like you have?