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Trump-Zelensky Meeting Devolves Into Shouting Match; Trump to Zelensky: "You're Not Acting At All Thankful"; Zelenskyy: This Mineral Deal Is Not Enough; Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 28, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Clearly, and he clearly couldn't hold back when some of these statements were made and these untruths were put in front of him. It is just an extraordinary moment. We were going to be talking here about this deal that was a win for both sides. Questions about the security guarantees, all this appears to be evaporating. It's just an extraordinary moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we do know that they finished this conversation, and maybe they're still in the Oval Office. So we don't know how this day is going to end yet. We don't know if they are going to come out and say that they somehow find a way to, found a way to sign this deal. There is going to be a news conference, or at least there was one planned. Let's see if that actually happens.

What an hour. What a moment in history. Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. Don't go anywhere. CNN News Central is picking up our coverage now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: We are following just an extraordinary meeting at the White House as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been sitting down with President Trump and Vice President Vance for pivotal talks on ending the war with Russia.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, they're trying to hash out a deal that would exchange U.S. access to Ukraine's natural resources for what Kyiv hopes will be security guarantees. But what has happened thus far in front of cameras has been stunning. Essentially a shouting match between President Donald Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and the vice president, J.D. Vance. At one point, Vance talking about the need for there to be a shift for an effort toward diplomacy instead of what he described as chest thumping on behalf of the American leadership. At that point, Zelensky turned to Vance and essentially made the case that diplomacy only gets you so far with Vladimir Putin, a move which J.D. Vance then called disrespectful. And it only got more intense from there.

KEILAR: And over and over, they just seem to be saying to Zelensky that he wasn't being thankful enough. He insisted that he has been very thankful for a long time, but they persisted in criticizing him in that manner.

It was clearly uncomfortable. You could see it on Zelensky's face. There was a lot more he wanted to say that he wasn't saying. And he was certainly very displeased, as was President Trump and the vice president. Let's listen to part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE PRESIDENT: He broken the ceasefire. He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about. What do you mean?

J.D. VANCE, USA VICE PRESIDENT: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

ZELENSKY: Yes, but if you (inaudible).

VANCE: Mr. President. Mr. President. With respect, I think it's disrespect for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this conference.

ZELENSKY: Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

VANCE: I have been to --

ZELENSKY: You come once.

VANCE: I have actually watched and seen the stories. And I know what happens is you bring people. You bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military?

ZELENSKY: Do we have problem?

VANCE: And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

ZELENSKY: A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning.

VANCE: Sure.

ZELENSKY: First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless.

TRUMP: You don't know that. You don't know that.

ZELENSKY: God bless. God bless you.

TRUMP: Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

ZELENSKY: I'm not telling you. I'm answering all these questions.

TRUMP: Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this.

ZELENSKY: I am not dictating.

TRUMP: You are in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good.

ZELENSKY: Feel influence.

TRUMP: We're going to feel very good and very strong.

ZELENSKY: I am telling you. You will feel influenced.

TRUMP: You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position. And he happens to be right about.

ZELENSKY: From the very beginning of the war. From the very beginning of the war, I was --

TRUMP: You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards.

ZELENSKY: No playing cards.

TRUMP: Right now, you don't play in card.

ZELENSKY: And what I see those (inaudible). And where (inaudible).

TRUMP: You're playing card. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: CNN's Kaitlan Collins was in the Oval Office for this meeting. Kaitlin, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which this could have gone worse. This seems to be a dream come true for Vladimir Putin.

KAITLIN COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not an overstatement for sure to say that. It is one of the most astonishing moments that we have ever seen happen inside the Oval Office between these world leaders essentially shouting at one another. By the end of this devolving into at points, Trump and Vance berating Zelensky for saying that he was not being grateful enough for the aid that the United States has provided to Ukraine. And Zelensky arguing back that they do not understand Putin essentially. That he will violate any agreement if the proper guarantees aren't in place.

[13:05:08]

That seemed to particularly incense Trump as he was saying, don't tell us what we're going to feel. Zelensky has been arguing that Putin will not stop with Ukraine, that he will go on to other Eastern European nations, including Poland, as he made the argument there. And Trump was essentially pushing back on that and telling Zelensky that he had no cards and that he needed to make a deal. And at one point, I think the most striking line from that could foreshadow what the rest of these talks are going to look like, what this press conference could look like if we still see these world leaders come out where they were supposed to sign that deal is the president -- president said to Zelensky, you either make a deal or we are out.

Now, that comes after 40 minutes before this exchange happened where the president was talking about how he wasn't ready to make security guarantees yet. He said the United States would still send some weaponry to Ukraine. Questions going back and forth about how a deal would hold. How a minerals deal would be carried out. All of that was essentially wiped away by those last 10 minutes that were so incredibly heated there in the Oval Office and essentially ended with Vance saying that this is not something that should be litigated in front of the press, the many press who were inside that room. Trump saying that he thought it was actually good, that it was playing out.

And I asked Trump as were leaving, can the two of you still negotiate, given what we just watched, that left everyone else in the room silent. He told me, quote, "We'll see." But just to give you a sense of how much things broke down, look at this picture of the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States. She has been the ambassador to the U.S. I should note, since 2021, since before Russia invaded Ukraine. She had her head in her hands.

At one point when I looked around the room and was just looking at all the officials here. Secretary of State Rubio, Treasury Secretary Bessant, the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, the Commerce Secretary, they were all in the room and the Ukrainian officials as well, watching this play out and raising real questions about what the two leaders here are going to be able to get done behind the scenes. This is the photo of the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States as they were just shouting at one another between the three of them in an incredibly remarkable moment.

KEILAR: Indeed, remarkable. Caitlin, if you can stand by for us. Let's Head now to Kyiv, which is where Nick Paton Walsh is. Nick, people there watching this. Are you getting any early reaction?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, look, there is real fear and anxiety that a moment that was supposed to put the United States and Ukraine back on track has erupted into the personal acrimony which many, I think, felt and feared might have underlined the spat we saw between the two men over the past 10 days. Zelensky, clearly a war leader, tired by three years, unwilling to hear falsehoods, talked about this particular conflict, particularly the intervention of J.D. Vance. They're talking about how he put people on propaganda tours defending his side, but also, I think, possibly misreading a moment there where Donald Trump had responded well to the French President Emmanuel Macron and to U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, at times being as ingratiating as they possibly could whilst gently correcting him. I think possibly Zelensky felt he had a similar position he could play

and that maybe a position of strength in terms of how he projected what he saying might leave him better in negotiations. But there's some remarkable phrases from Donald Trump saying, you know, you are not acting at all thankful, and that is not nice. It felt like Trump wanted to hear, again, thanks to the American people essentially for the aid which he now wants Ukraine to pay back. That he hasn't even said he's going to continue under his particular administration.

I don't personally think from this there was much to suggest that the rare earth minerals deal, which, frankly right now is a frameless tooth, is a toothless framework of a deal that's mostly symbolic to try and get their relationship back on track. That doesn't feel to me to be the problem. That seems like it's likely to get signed if indeed the two men decide they still want to do that. Does this press conference happen?

And look, ultimately, the outcome of this personal relationship isn't just about two men getting along and deciding they want to do a press conference later on. It impacts a country which had 200 drones fired last night by Russia, where since Trump called Zelensky a dictator 10 days ago, 47 civilians have been killed by Russian strikes. 220 people injured, according to account we've done. Hundreds have died in the front lines.

Russia is moving forwards incrementally, but advancing. And we'll be seeing this particular scene. I mean, literally, as badly as it possibly could have gone for Kyiv, as far as we know, they might rectify it behind closed doors. Maybe the French president could intervene again and calm things down, play straight into the Kremlin narrative, particularly that moment where Donald Trump mimicked what he seemed to think was President Zelensky's voice saying, I don't want a ceasefire, and acting as though the position that we've heard from Zelensky echoed by European allies, that you cannot trust Putin in a ceasefire, that there are multiple historical examples that he breaks those deals.

[13:10:13]

Trump says that's not the case with him. He respects the Trump administration. Putin does, and he won't violate any deals they make. You could just see how that did not make Trump feel comfortable and how he clearly also, I think did not like hearing Putin being called a terrorist in the earlier remarks that Zelensky made. You could see early on, we've studied Zelensky for years. He looked frustrated, uncomfortable, suppressing emotions early on. And there seems to be comments about his dress, too.

So, you know, this is a defining moment, frankly, in this war. It puts the future of U.S. Aid for Ukraine in doubt, possibly the U.S. Role in the European reassurance force that's being planned in doubt. It puts the current format of peace talks under question, too.

Certainly, they may rectify things. They may look, there's a slimmer of possibility. Trump emerges from this thinking that Zelensky is a tough negotiator. But the way the two men were shouting over each other, the acrimony there, the spectacle of it, Trump feeling like at the end he had to say, this is going to make great tv.

I worry as to any Ukrainian we've spoken to since this has been popping up on social media and broadcast as well, that we are into a very dark, unknowable chapter ahead here now, where the lives of many Ukrainians on the front line. And frankly, as we've seen over the past three weeks or so, the longer term security of much of Eastern Europe may hinge on the remarkable theatrical, frankly, scenes we've seen in that office. Two men shouting over each other with where really this was supposed to be a healing moment, trying to put things back on track.

SANCHEZ: I do want to bring in CNN Global Affairs Analysts Kim Dozier and Jeffrey Edmonds. He's a former director for Russia on the National Security Council. Thank you both for being with us.

I do wonder, as we hear the analysis from Nick Payton Walsh, how you square Donald Trump's thinking on the insistence by Vladimir Putin that Russia redeem itself on a global stage. Trump doesn't seem to think that the sting of Putin is going to reach the United States. He rejected the idea, emotionally rejected the idea that Zelensky was presenting, that there will be effects here in the United States, that it will be felt here. What did you think of it?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: This started innocently enough, the same way the French and the British Leaders came and pushed back gently on Trump. Zelensky had started giving a history lesson about how Putin first seized Crimea in 2014. Trump corrected him, said, 2015. He's like, no, 2014.

And then explained how they had signed two different peace deals with Putin, Minsk 1 and Minsk 2, that Germany and France also signed to guarantee. And what he was trying to do was show Trump, you know, we have tried to do diplomacy before, and it hasn't worked. He was being very genteel and patient as he explained it. And it was Vance who took offense and started interjecting.

And then it was Vance, as he warmed up to his subject, who then also interjected the, your, I haven't heard you say thank you once. It was almost like he was bawling out one of his young kids. And he warmed to his subject. And once it became that tone, Trump took that tone on and jumped into the attacks. And I don't know how you get from that back to, look, you can't trust Putin, and here's why. I just, I can only imagine what it was like once they all went into a conference room and had to look at each other across the table.

KEILAR: Yes. And what did you think as you were watching this, Jeff?

JEFFREY EDMONDS, FORMER DIRECTOR FOR RUSSIA, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: I mean, it's pretty shocking, but what I think really stands out to me is that this administration grossly overestimates its ability to bring about a deal. Completely agree with the point that you can't trust deals made with Russian President Putin, but I take it a step further than that and say as long as Russian troops are advancing in the east, and they are, and he believes he's winning, you're not going to get a meaningful deal. In a sense, by meaningful, I mean like some kind of lasting peace. So I don't even think they're going to get to the point where he's violating the deal.

KEILAR: So he's got the upper hand.

EDMONDS: That's right.

KEILAR: So why would he proceed in that regard, you mean?

EDMONDS: That's right. Yes. None of his strategic objectives about changing the government, Ukraine, and really controlling the strategic direction of Ukraine, none of that has changed. And as long as he thinks he can do that by what he's doing right now, he's going to keep doing that. And the rest of the negotiations with him, that's just smoke and mirrors.

DOZIER: And my impression is that basically Trump's national security team, people like Mike Waltz, national security adviser, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, they're very traditionalist, they're anti Russia. But like past Trump administration officials, they sold Trump on this deal. Through the lens of business, through the lens of making investments for U.S. companies possible. Leveling the playing field with China, because China has 70% of the rare earth minerals. And this would give the U.S. a jump on some of that. But the whole idea was this was something to build on, sign this loose agreement, then that goodwill would make Zelensky look like the good guy who made Trump look good, and we would build on that from there.

[13:15:28]

And now this all just got blown up. And you could see a lot of the messages that he had absorbed, that Trump had absorbed from his conversations with Putin just coming out. I don't know how you talk down from this.

SANCHEZ: What about Jeff, that glimmer of hope that Nick Paton Walsh alluded to. The idea that Donald Trump as a negotiator would respect someone that would hold a hard line against him, that Zelensky going in there and standing his ground, even at one point, as cameras were being escorted out, smiling and giving a thumbs up for the cameras, sort of as if to show that he's not intimidated by the situation, that his country isn't on the line. Would that work to his advantage? Do you see that as a possibility?

EDMONDS: I don't. And I think that I understand that, you know, Trump likes to be up against somebody that he respects. But what you're seeing is a real shift in U.S. foreign policy if you're stepping back for a moment, where he respects Putin. He respects Xi Jinping, China. And those are the people he wants to deal with. Anybody else is just not an equal, right?

And so in some ways, the foreign policy that's emerging is actually very similar to Chinese and Russian foreign policy in that in the world, you have a couple centers of gravity where the real power is. We'll work things out amongst us, and like all the rest of the countries, just need to fall in line.

I won't mess with your area. You don't mess with my area, and we'll just straighten out ourselves. And Zelensky doesn't rise to that level in Trump's eyes.

DOZIER: Meanwhile, watch his popularity ratings back home. They're going to soar. They're at 65. They're going to be higher. And European nations who were thinking about, oh, we got to go it alone after watching that spectacle, they're going to be like, okay, it's us in Ukraine. We cannot count on this White House.

KEILAR: Let's talk a little bit more about that with CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour. Let's talk, Christiane, about how European leaders are going to view this moment.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, look, I think just what your guest just said it's going to be a -- you can imagine everybody in Europe now has their head in their hands, particularly after the parade of European presidents and prime ministers just came back from fairly successful meetings with President Trump. They never got what they wanted in terms of a security guarantee for Ukraine because that's what they really need if there's to be any peace. But now they're going to be wondering, is there going to be any deal to even police and to enforce. Are we just going to have to continue funding and supplying this war?

What I can tell you is the British prime minister has announced that he is having a summit in London this weekend on Sunday. He's invited all the major European leaders, and President Zelensky was due to be coming back from Washington via London to take part in that summit. This was, you know, designed to, you know, compare notes or their trips to the White House, how to go forward.

I don't know whether that will still happen. I don't know what they might discuss. It seems it's even more urgent for that summit to take place, given what just happened in the White House.

Look, from a European and an overseas perspective, what seemed to have happened was a this very strange new White House way of having these long and lengthy Oval Office sprays with the press, where they do talk for a long time. It's not usual. This is, you know, an accident waiting to happen.

You saw the Zelensky handshake as he met with President Trump at the portico. He was incredibly tense. Zelensky's body language, very tense. Knew everything that was riding on this, you know, on this meeting. And then, as everybody said, you know, a fairly okay meeting devolved into this really horrendous catastrophe in the last 10 minutes. And as everybody has said, you know, launched by the intervention of the Vice President. Vice President J.D. Vance.

This year in Munich, basically, you know, washed his hands of Ukraine last time he was in Munich at the security conference. Basically, told Europeans and Ukrainians that I don't care really much what happens to Ukraine. So there's some animosity there, as you can imagine.

Untruths about Zelensky never saying thank you and a very, you know, twisted and tortured version of what's actually been going on during this war. But I think as many people said, Zelensky's main aim, as he said himself. But I want to ask what the U.S. is prepared to do going forward. And perhaps I need to ask, whose side is the Trump administration on, Ukraine's or Putin's?

[13:20:10]

And I think what you saw in that meeting was much more of the United States administration, the president and the vice president, taking all the Putin talking points and being frustrated with Zelensky and using those talking points. That in terms of a transatlantic alliance and in terms of a superpower going forward is really the major shift that everyone overseas has been incredibly concerned about. And it also seemed to be a performance for domestic politics.

What the, you know, what President Trump and Vice President Vance were doing, it seemed was as much a domestic political campaign appearance as anything else. I mean, at one point, you heard President Trump going back on the Russia hoax and the Hunter Biden laptop and on and on and on. There is bad blood between these two leaders from the very beginning.

But again, let's not forget that it was the javelins that Trump did provide that allowed Ukraine to fend off the Russians in those early days. Very important, these weapons work. But let's also not forget that it was Trump who convinced his MAGA allies in Congress this time last year to pause the latest delivery of weapons to Ukraine. And that was a seven month lag, which cost territory, which cost lives, and which has put Ukraine in a very bad place.

But to keep hearing the President of the United States tell the Ukrainian president and the people of Ukraine who fought this much mightier army off for three years, that they have no cards to play, that they either take a deal and make a deal or the United States is out. This is music to President Putin's eyes. Music.

KEILAR: And yes, I mean, to that point, I think we should note, obviously, there are a lot of difficulties on the front line. Christiane, if you could hold on for just a moment, we do want to go to the White House because we understand we have a little bit of breaking news on this.

Jeff Zeleny, what's going on?

JEFF ZELENY: We are just learning from President Trump his first reaction after that extraordinary meeting in the Oval Office. We will read it together. But the headline initially is that President Trump says Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky can come back to the White House when he's ready for peace. Let's read from the top.

We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. The president goes on to say, it's amazing what comes out through a motion. And I have determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations.

I don't want advantage, Trump says. I want peace. He disrespected the United States of America and its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for peace. Aain, that is President Trump sending out a message on Truth Social, his preferred account. You can see President Zelensky's car right there waiting outside via West Wing. Press has gathered. He has not yet walked out of the White House at this point, but this would seem to mean their joint press conference is canceled. The rest of their meeting would seem to be canceled as well.

It's an extraordinary set of words there. He can come back when he's ready for peace. This was a deal that President Trump wanted to make today. This was something that clearly Zelensky also wanted some security guarantees. But he seems to be leaving the White House in an extraordinarily different posture than we could have ever imagined.

Really, only two hours ago when his car drove past the honor guard into the White House. You can see right there as the flags are whipping in the wind, the Ukrainian flag, the American flag right outside the West Wing entrance there. Things are being scrambled for Zelensky's abrupt departure here.

Again, all sparked by Vice President J.D. Vance speaking up inside the Oval that clearly brought an exchange to which we have never seen, certainly in the television era inside the Oval Office. But for now, we do know that Zelensky will be leaving the White House. President Trump saying he can come back when he's ready for peace.

SANCHEZ: Jeff, please stand by as we await the departure of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky from the West Wing. We want to go back to Kyiv with CNN's Nick Peyton Walsh.

Nick, clearly not the outcome we had anticipated for this deal. It was supposed to be brokered over rare earth minerals. It was supposed to provide essentially U.S. investment in Ukraine as a way to deter further action from Vladimir Putin. Clearly, clearly, that is not the next course of action here.

[13:25:17]

And we just confirmed, actually, Nick, we just confirmed from the White House, a producer just got in our ear. The press conference between President Zelensky and President Trump has officially been canceled. Again, that press conference was set to take place about 20 minutes ago. We watched what happened in the Oval Office, and everything sort of flew off the rails from there.

KEILAR: This is a catastrophe for Ukraine and for what has been an American-Ukrainian alliance in pushing back on what Russia has attempted here. Let's bring Nick Paton Walsh back in to talk a little bit about it.

Nick, a whole day planned here. And we should just be clear. This day planned with Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House came after trips by the U.K. Prime Minister, the French Prime Minister coming here to America to shower President Trump with praise, trying to get him to get in line with them. When it came to supporting Ukraine. He appeared to be there as much as he could be yesterday. And this is ending today in a debacle, however you want to call it. Volodymyr Zelensky leaving early or getting kicked out early. This is a debacle.

WALSCH: Yes. The closing line of that truth social post there. He can come back when he's ready for peace. I think that suggests that it may be the American side here bringing this to a premature close.

Look, this is, I mean, I been covering Ukraine for 22 years and this war since the start, I never imagined circumstances like this. I don't think anybody we've spoken to here since this began can believe their eyes. I think there's a sense of indignation at some of the things said to President Zelensky.

You have to understand from the position of Ukrainians, most of whom have seen close friends, family members die in this war. In fact, you know, just here every night, there's anti-aircraft fire over central Kyiv holding back Russian drones. It's a life and death moment. And some of the initial reaction amongst Ukrainian military telegram channels has been in support of Zelensky, essentially saying that the Trump peace wasn't something that they felt comfortable with, and they wanted to fight on.

But I think there's a sort of a hard thing to understand here. When you hear J.D. Vance talked about how there's propaganda tours here falsely and you hear Trump mock Zelensky sort of did a slight impression of him saying, I don't want a ceasefire during that. The Trump administration comes from this almost a transactional basis where they wanted a deal, they wanted a rare earth deal to try and repay what they said was debt, which Zelensky said wasn't the case.

But for Ukrainians, this is deeply personal and existential. This is their main military and financial backer, possibly out. I mean, I've been hearing repeatedly from U.S. officials since this rare earth minerals deal came around. If it wasn't signed, then there's not really a path forwards. It does not seem as though it has been signed.

Zelensky is leaving early. And after all the effort put in by European leaders to try and pave the way for this to be a smooth kind of Teflon re-ingratiation of Zelensky with Donald Trump, we are in a place that is unimaginable, frankly. It does put the question. It puts questions into how Zelensky can possibly imagine to get the aid he needs from the United States here. That somewhat puts into question his position in Ukraine.

They desperately need that money, and not only do they need that money, they need the European reassurance force, in the event of a ceasefire deal to have American backing. Is that now in question? We don't know.

And we saw there this extraordinary moment where Donald Trump said, you don't seem thankful. And to be honest, that's not very nice after them shouting each other down. There was a moment when Zelensky simply couldn't be heard because Donald Trump was speaking over him. And I think he felt that was, you know, disrespectful to his office. He'd been asked there to talk and wasn't getting a word in. But there's also, I think, a moment here where, you know, we have to look at what possibly was expected of Zelensky in this moment, which was maybe to emulate some of the graces shown by the French president and U.K. Prime Minister, you know, who were very ingratiating towards Donald Trump.

And they talked about the Notre Dame visit, Macron did. Keir Starmer gave him an invitation for a second state visit and emphasized how rare, unprecedented that was. They were really buttering Trump up to bring him back into the European orbit.

I think instead, Zelensky came into this meeting possibly thinking that a position of strength would be what would leave Trump feeling.