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Zelenskyy Leaves White House Early After Oval Office Shouting Match; Zelenskyy Leaves White House Early Without Signing Mineral Deal; Trump Ordered Ukrainians to be Told to Leave White House. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired February 28, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00: BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following major breaking news. A catastrophic moment for U.S.-Ukraine relations. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy just leaving the White House after earning extraordinary meeting with President Trump and Vice President Vance that devolved into a heated shouting match in front of cameras.
They were supposed to hold a joint news conference afterward to tout this rare earth minerals deal, but it has been canceled, with President Trump saying that Zelenskyy can, quote, come back to the White House when he's ready for peace. We want to share with you a sizable chunk of that meeting. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 45TH & 47TH U.S. PRESIDENT: If I didn't align myself with both of them, you'd never have a deal. You want me to say really terrible things about Putin and then say, hi, Vladimir, how are we doing on the deal? That doesn't work that way. I'm not aligned with Putin.
I'm not aligned with anybody. I'm aligned with the United States of America and for the good of the world, I'm aligned with the world, and I want to get this thing over with. You see the hatred he's got for Putin? It's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hatred. He's got tremendous hatred, and I understand that.
But I can tell you the other side isn't exactly in love with, you know, him either. So it's not a question of alignment. I have to -- I'm aligned with the world. I want to get the thing set. I'm aligned with Europe. I want to see if we can get this thing done. You want me to be tough. I could be tougher than any human being you've ever seen. I'd be so tough. But you're never going to get a deal that way. So that's the way it goes. All right, one more question.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I will respond to this. So look, for four years in the United States of America we had a President who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin. And then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden of thumping our chest and pretending that the President of the United States words mattered more than the President of the United States actions. What makes America a good country, is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE PRESIDENT: Can I ask you?
VANCE: Sure, yeah.
ZELENSKYY: Okay. So he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, part of east and Crimea. So he occupied it on 2014. So during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those time was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump and God bless.
Now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the contact --
TRUMP: 2015.
ZELENSKYY: 2014.
VANCE: 2014 to 2015
TRUMP: So 2014
ZELENSKYY: Yeah, so he killed --
TRUMP: I was not here.
ZELENSKYY: Yeah, but
VANCE: That's exactly right.
ZELENSKYY: Yes but during 2014 till 2022, was the situation the same that people have been dying on the contact line? Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him. A lot of conversation. My bilateral conversation. And we signed with him. Me like a new President. In 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him Macron and Merkel, we signed ceasefire. Ceasefire.
All of them told me that he will never go. We signed him with gas contract. Gas contract, yes. But after that he broken the ceasefire. He killed our people. And he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about? What do you mean?
VANCE: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.
ZELENSKYY: Yes, but if you are not --
VANCE: Mr. President. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.
[14:05:01]
Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the President for trying to bring it into this conflict --
ZELENSKYY: Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?
VANCE: I have been to --
ZELENSKYY: Then come once.
VANCE: I've actually watched and seen the stories. And I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people in your military?
ZELENSKYY: We have problems --
VANCE: And do you think that it's respectful --
ZELENSKYY: I will answer that --
VANCE: -- to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning.
VANCE: Sure.
ZELENSKYY: First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless --
TRUMP: You don't know that --
ZELENSKYY: God bless --
TRUMP: You don't know that --
ZELENSKYY: God bless. You don't know that in the war.
TRUMP: Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel --
ZELENSKYY: I'm not telling you. I'm only saying (inaudible) --
TRUMP: -- because you're in no position to dictate that.
VANCE: That's exactly what (inaudible).
ZELENSKYY: You have no (Inaudible).
TRUMP: You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good.
ZELENSKYY: You will feel influenced.
TRUMP: We're going to feel very good and very strong.
ZELENSKYY: I am telling you, you will feel influenced.
TRUMP: You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself --
ZELENSKYY: From the very --
TRUMP: -- to be in a very bad --
ZELENSKYY: From the very beginning of the war.
TRUMP: -- position that is happens to be right about it.
ZELENSKYY: From the very beginning of the war (inaudible)/
TRUMP: You're not in a good position.
ZELENSKYY: I was --
TRUMP: You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards.
ZELENSKYY: I'm not playing cards.
TRUMP: But right now, you don't --
ZELENSKYY: And what I've seen is (inaudible).
TRUMP: You're playing cards.
ZELENSKYY: I (inaudible) it.
TRUMP: You're playing cards. You're gambling --
ZELENSKYY: I'm the (inaudible) war.
TRUMP: -- with the lives of millions of people.
ZELENSKYY: You think --
TRUMP: You're gambling with World War III.
ZELENSKYY: What you think (inaudible).
TRUMP: You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country.
ZELENSKYY: I'm (inaudible) respect to you --
TRUMP: That's backed you, far more than a lot of people said --
ZELENSKYY: I will respect --
TRUMP: -- they should have.
VANCE: Have you said thank you once, this entire meeting?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of times.
VANCE: No, in this entire --
ZELENSKYY: Even today --
VANCE: -- meeting, have you said thank you?
ZELENSKYY: Even today.
VANCE: You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the President who's trying to save your country.
ZELENSKYY: Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can --
TRUMP: He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: Can I ask you --
TRUMP: No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning.
ZELENSKYY: I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning this. You have a damn --
ZELENSKYY: (Inaudible) --
TRUMP: -- good chance of coming out okay because of us.
ZELENSKYY: Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong. From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone and we are thankful. I said thanks --
TRUMP: You haven't been --
ZELENSKYY: -- in this cabinet --
TRUMP: You haven't been allowing --
ZELENSKYY: (Inaudible) this cabinet --
TRUMP: We gave you, through this stupid President, $350 billion.
ZELENSKYY: You (inaudible) before you're president.
TRUMP: We gave you military equipment --
ZELENSKYY: You (inaudible).
TRUMP: -- and you've met (inaudible), but they had to use our military.
ZELENSKYY: What (inaudible) --
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment --
ZELENSKYY: You invited me to speak --
TRUMP: If we didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks, okay?
ZELENSKYY: In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something --
TRUMP: Maybe less.
ZELENSKYY: In two weeks. Of course, yes.
TRUMP: It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this.
ZELENSKYY: (Inaudible) --
VANCE: I tell you, just say thank you --
ZELENSKYY: I said a lot of times, thank you --
VANCE: -- except that there -
Zelenskyy: -- to American people --
VANCE: -- except that there are disagreements. And let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong.
TRUMP: But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards.
ZELENSKYY: I was thankful.
TRUMP: You're buried there. People are dying.
ZELENSKYY: I can tell you (inaudible). I know --
TRUMP: You're running low on soldiers.
ZELENSKYY: Please --
TRUMP: Listen, you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good (inaudible) -- ZELENSKYY: Mr. President --
TRUMP: -- and then you tell us, I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire. I want to go and I want this. Look, if you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying. And you're men stop (inaudible) kill.
ZELENSKYY: Of course we want to stop the war.
TRUMP: But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire --
ZELENSKYY: But I said to you --
TRUMP: I want a ceasefire --
ZELENSKYY: -- with guarantees.
TRUMP: -- because you'll get a ceasefire faster than any (inaudible).
ZELENSKYY: Ask our people about ceasefire, what they think --
TRUMP: That wasn't with me --
ZELENSKYY: it doesn't matter for you what --
TRUMP: -- that wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person. That was the --
ZELENSKYY: This is your --
TRUMP: That was with Obama.
ZELENSKYY: It was your President.
TRUMP: Excuse me. That was with Obama, who gave you sheets. And I gave you javelins.
ZELENSKYY: Yes.
TRUMP: I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins. You got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don't have any cards.
WOMAN #2: One more question to (inaudible) -- Mr. Vice President, I'm sorry --
TRUMP: It's going to be a tough deal to make. Because the attitudes have to change.
WOMAN #2: What if Russia breaks ceasefire? What if Russia breaks peace talks? What do you do then? I understand that it's a hidden conversation right now --
TRUMP: What are you saying? VANCE: She's asking, what if Russia breaks the ceasefire?
TRUMP: What if they -- what if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now --
[14:10:02]
WOMAN #1^ But they have --
TRUMP: -- okay? What if they broke it? I don't know, they broke it with Biden. Because Biden, he didn't respect him. They didn't respect Obama. They respect me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia.
Russia, Russia, Russia, you ever hear of that deal? That was a phony -- that was a phony Hunter-Biden, Joe Biden scam, Hillary Clinton, shifty Adam Schiff. It was a Democrat scam. And he had to go through that. And he did go through it. We didn't end up in a war, and he went through it. He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with it. It came out of Hunter-Biden's bathroom. It came out of Hunter Biden's bedroom. It was disgusting.
And then they said, oh, the laptop from hell was made by Russia, the 51 agents. The whole thing was a scam. And he had to put up with that. He was being accused of all that stuff. All I can say is this, he might have broken deals with Obama and Bush and he might have broken them with Biden. He did, maybe. Maybe he didn't. I don't know what happened, but he didn't break them with me. He wants to make a deal. I don't know if he can make a deal.
The problem is I've empowered you to be a tough guy, and I don't think you'd be a tough guy without the United States. And your people are very brave. But you're either going to make a deal or we're out. And if we're out, you'll fight it out. I don't think it's going to be pretty, but you'll fight it out. But you don't have the cards. But once we sign that deal, you're in a much better position. But you're not acting at all thankful. And that's not a nice thing. I'll be honest, that's not a nice thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: After that, we saw Zelenskyy getting ready to depart the White House. We saw a post from Trump on social media. We found out that their signing of a rare earths mineral deal was canceled and their joint press conference was canceled.
That post saying, we had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It's amazing what comes out through a motion. And I've determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for peace if America is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace.
It's really hard to imagine how this could have gone worse. An advisor for Russian President Vladimir Putin just reacting to the meeting with one word, quote, historic. CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is at the White House. Jeff, Zelenskyy spent about 25 more minutes in the White House after Trump posted that the meeting was over. Do we know what happened there?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: We do not know exactly what happened. That certainly will be one of the notes of history that we certainly will learn more about this day here at the White House. The West Wing, of course, has many offices, and when foreign visitors come, they are afforded an area to work.
We do know that there were no further discussions between the American side and the Ukrainian delegation. Obviously, lunch was canceled, the press conference was canceled. And journalists from around the world standing outside the White House here watched as Zelenskyy drove off in his SUV and will soon be leaving Washington later today.
And it's extraordinary. This was a week that began on a hopeful note, for diplomatic sake at least, when the French President Emmanuel Macron visited on Monday. The visit was amplified by the British Prime Minister visit on Thursday, trying to pave the way for some type of a security arrangement with Ukraine. That clearly erupted largely when the Vice President, who sat silently through most of the meeting, as we saw, suddenly did not at the end. But there is no certainty where this goes from here.
We do know the President, the next time we're scheduled to see him is when he leaves the White House around five o'clock today to head to his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida. We will see if he speaks then or before then. But as of now, there are no other meetings scheduled at the White House and Zelenskyy is scheduled at least to leave town. Boris and Brianna?
KEILAR: All right. Jeff, thank you. And when we come back, we'll have more on that tense exchange. An understatement, really, between President Trump and Ukrainian leader Vladimir Zelenskyy.
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[14:19:16]
SANCHEZ: Breaking news into CNN. We have new details about what happened after that fiery Oval Office meeting between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We're learning from CNN's Kevin Liptak and Kit Maher that President Trump and Zelenskyy went to separate rooms after their exchange with the Ukrainians actually wanting the talks to continue. But as we hear from a White House official, the White House made it clear that it was time for them to go. Trump ordering the Ukrainians to be told to leave.
KEILAR: So kicked out --
SANCHEZ: Kicked out of the White house.
KEILAR: -- essentially, right?
SANCHEZ: Yeah.
KEILAR: Let's listen to part of this moment in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country. This country that's back you far more than a lot of people said they should have.
VANCE: Have you said thank you once --
ZELENSKYY: A lot of times --
VANCE: -- this entire meeting? No. In this entire meeting --
ZELENSKYY: Even today --
VANCE: -- have you said thank you? You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the President who's trying to save your country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Let's go now to Nick Paton Walsh, our Chief International Security Correspondent, who is in Kiev. And what we're learning here, Nick, from reporting from our Kevin Liptak, is essentially that Trump kicked Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian delegation out of the White House. Tell us, though, what you are learning. I know you have some brand new reporting.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. A U.S. Official I've been speaking to familiar with the Ukraine negotiations, who observed, obviously, like pretty much everyone, this meeting said that they felt things might go awry as soon as Zelenskyy got out of the car wearing his trademark shirt with the Ukrainian emblem there. We've seen him wearing green T-shirts for years. He's recently started wearing black longer sleeve shirts more often rather than a suit.
I should point out that his chief of staff, Andriy Yermak, was seen wearing a suit. He's not often seen in that clothing either. They've been adopting sort of military style fatigue since the beginning of this war, often appearing alongside European leaders to emphasize the point that they are at war.
In official diplomatic meetings, the official I spoke to saying, I know it's his thing, but this moment is different. And then the official says in their feeling and interpretation of this that Zelenskyy should have handled this differently. When Vance sat down, he should have taken a more conciliatory approach.
Now is not the time to quibble or correct the Vice President or the President of the United States. Remember, in previous meetings, we see in exactly the same situation, Emmanuel Macron of France, Keir Starmer of the United Kingdom, Prime Minister have corrected Trump when it came to aid. But the tone of the correction and the spirit of the meeting was entirely different, much more convivial.
This appears to have sparked, I think it's fair to say an unexpected intervention from J.D. Vance, the Vice President. We've seen him in previous meetings and indeed those meetings, he wasn't as vocal. He definitely interjected here, and that seemed to be when things got particularly feisty.
SANCHEZ: Nick, it's about 20 minutes after 9 p.m. where you are in Kyiv. Are Ukrainians aware of what just unfolded at the White House?
WALSH: Yeah, this is changing the course of this nation. And there are now kitchen table conversations, people in bars before curfew hits in here in the capital, some with their heads in their hands, I'm sure a sense of indignation, perhaps, at the way their President was treated there. There were times when he was not allowed to speak, lectured by the Vice President.
And I think it's important to remember Ukrainians have lost people close to them, lived on the bombardment for three years, and, you know, I think feel that sacrifice is something they would like to see respected. But here, I think their President was very much expected to take the ingratiating tone we've seen the French and U.K. leaders take in the past week or so.
And at times I think maybe didn't read the room in that way. And certainly things did spiral out of control. But there are many Ukrainians here deeply anxious about what this means. He didn't just go badly. He got thrown out of the White House. And the rare earth minerals deal, which, look, we've been told most people understand, if that isn't signed, aid is significantly in doubt, may stop entirely. That wasn't signed either.
And so we are, as that U.S. Official I spoke to said, in quote, new territory at the moment. Nobody really thought it could be this bad. And nobody really, I think, understands what this means going forwards, except that things will be significantly different. Watch the front lines now. That's where we may start seeing this having its greatest impact.
KEILAR: Yeah, this was a disaster. Let's go now to Evelyn Farkas, former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. Evelyn, can you sort of point to the moment where this tipped, where the tipping point was such that this went off the rails and now this alliance is in question. The American place in this world, order is in question.
EVELYN FARKAS, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASST. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR RUSSIA, UKRAINE & EURASIA: Yeah. I mean, Brianna, it's a combination of substance and style, right? I mean, they were disagreeing over substance. But I think where it went off the rails is on the style side because the Vice President interjected, and then you had the two most powerful people in the world ganging up on someone, a leader, really, truly the only international leader who's spoken so clearly about universal values, about sovereignty, about freedom. [14:25:04]
You know, over the last decades, frankly, he's the one that stands out as being Churchillian and he's being ganged up upon in a moment of, you know, vulnerability, if you will, publicly. I've never felt more embarrassed and kind of humiliated for my country because that's not how you treat anyone, you know, much less Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
So I think it was the substance that more than the -- than, sorry, the style more than the substance. Of course, there were substantive disagreements, and those would have probably remained, but the style is really what I think is shocking to all of us.
SANCHEZ: We're also joined now by Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt and Michael Bosterkiw (ph), a Former Spokesperson for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, as well as Admiral James Stavridis, Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander -- Retired Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander. Thank you all for being with us.
Alex, first to you, to Evelyn's point about style, we just heard this reporting from Nick Paton Walsh. The distaste for Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his military garb, right? He was asked about why he wasn't wearing a suit. Not something of extreme importance there. But it did strike me when we just heard that audio again from J.D. Vance and his exchanges with the Ukrainian president. He pointed out that Zelenskyy, in Vance's words, campaigned for the opposition.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
SANCHEZ: So their dislike for Zelenskyy -- and he was trying to correct J.D. Vance, they're saying, I don't know what you're talking about. Their dislike for Zelenskyy is personal.
MARQUARDT: Yeah. It runs pretty deep. And what he's referring to is a stop that Volodymyr Zelenskyy made during the heat of the campaign at the end of the campaign season in Pennsylvania at a munitions factory accompanied by Democrats. And that was seen as partisan and campaigning against Donald Trump.
So clearly he didn't take that well. Vance was also seemingly affronted by the lack of thanks from Volodymyr Zelenskyy in that meeting. We have to emphasize that Zelenskyy has said thank you repeatedly over the course of the past three years. He's often coupled that with, and we need more.
This notion of his fashion rubbing them the wrong way. I mean, these you Ukrainian officials, Zelenskyy foremost among them, wearing that to remind everybody else that they're still at war. And it is sometimes very notable when everybody else is dressed in a suit and he's meeting these big fancy foreign leaders. But that is the point there.
I am struck by the fact that Volodymyr Zelenskyy first came to the White House in his first foreign trip just over two years ago, in December of 2022. And it was a huge deal at the time because it was the first time he had left the country while his country has been at war. He was, of course, welcomed as, you know, the leader of a country at war and as a hero. And here he is just over two years later, being kicked off of the White House lawn. It is just extraordinary.
And as the dust settles a bit on this shock, I think we have to think about what happens next. Unless there's some Hail Mary effort to mend ties this afternoon, we will see Zelenskyy go back to Ukraine. The Europeans certainly will be scrambling to try to smooth things over. Before today's meeting was even started, there was a meeting that was being called for by the Brits on Sunday. Certainly now there is added importance to that. They'll be trying to figure out how best to proceed, whether what way the Europeans can act as a mediator.
I have been trying to speak to as many people as possible to get some reaction. There's a lot of hesitance to react. I think no one wants to rock the boat any further. I did hear from a European diplomat who said, I'm shocked. I've never seen such a barrage of accusations against the leader of a country that has been attacked by an aggressor state. And I think that is a very common reaction that we're hearing right now.
KEILAR: And we have some new reporting in from Kaitlan Collins that is painting an incredible picture. And we'll try to get her up so we can talk to her a little bit more about it as she's available. But it says after President Trump and Zelenskyy got into an extraordinary shouting match, Trump was huddling with key advisers immediately afterward inside the Oval Office.
And according to a White House official, Trump consulted with his Vice President, his Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, Treasury Secretary, and other top advisers in the dramatic showdown where Trump and Vance accused Zelenskyy of being ungrateful for U.S. aid. And that was when Trump ultimately decided Zelenskyy wasn't in a place to negotiate. He then directed Rubio and his National Security Adviser, Mike Waltz, to deliver the message that it was time to go.
SANCHEZ: Yeah, and in a really telling part of this reporting from Kaitlan Collins, the Ukrainians were holding nearby in a separate room. This is standard when foreign leaders visit the White House. Typically they go into these other rooms and they will reconvene for lunch, but the Ukrainians were essentially told they had to leave over their protests. They wanted to continue the talks. They were told no.
And a fascinating detail here as the prepared food sat nearby on carts in the hallway outside the press secretary's office --
