Return to Transcripts main page
CNN News Central
Zelenskyy Leaves White House Early After Oval Office Rebuke; Official: Trump Ordered Ukrainians To Be Told To Leave White House; Russian Ex-President On Zelenskyy WH Meeting: "The Insolent Pig Finally Got A Proper Slap Down In The Oval Office, Donald Trump Is Right"; Pope Francis Put On Breathing Machine. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 28, 2025 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: They wanted to continue the talks. They were told no.
And a fascinating detail here, as the prepared food sat nearby on carts in the hallway outside the press secretary's office, Ukrainians were instructed to leave. They weren't even offered lunch. They were just kicked out of the White House after that meeting.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It's an incredible vignette that she paints there with her reporting.
Let's bring in Michael Bociurkiw, who is the former spokesperson for the organization for security and cooperation in Europe.
And, Michael, I think one of the things we have to zero in on here is that idea of Vance saying and Trump clearly agreeing, why wasn't Zelenskyy more grateful?
Because what it tells us is that there is this sense coming from the Trump administration, certainly, from Trump, that it's almost as if the U.S. is doing charity here, that it doesn't have a stake in the war. This doesn't affect Americans. The outcome does not have ramifications for the U.S.
You started to hear Volodymyr Zelenskyy trying to say, you will feel this. And Trump was almost triggered by that, pushing back, do not tell us what we are going to feel. We're going to feel fine, or something like that.
What do you say to that, this idea that the U.S. doesn't really have a dog in this fight?
MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, THE ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY & COOPERATION IN EUROPE: Yes, well, it does. It has a huge stake. And by the way, as we're speaking right now, there are explosions outside because air defense systems are trying to repel a huge swarm of Russian drones.
It's almost as if it started on cue after the Ukrainians left the White House. But having said that -- and I'm safe, so don't worry. But the Ukrainians have been telling me and a lot of others, Zelenskyy
is screaming at the top of his voice that, no, we're not just, you know, defending Ukraine's integrity and sovereignty, but we're also fighting for the rules based international order, for European security, for American security.
And, you know, here I am in Odessa, world port, Odessa. It ships food all over the world, especially wheat.
And I think a problem here is that perhaps earlier on, that argument wasn't articulated well enough that the West has a lot to lose should Ukraine stop being a viable economic entity?
Of course, the other thing we have to -- the Ukrainians like to remind the Americans whenever they can, is that it's not as if -- and it wasn't, you know, $360 billion. It was about half of that.
But it's not as if this cash was put on pallets and flown by military aircraft to Ukraine. A lot of it stayed in the United States, creating wealth, creating jobs. A lot of the equipment was due to be mothballed, but it was sent here.
So that's what -- and the other thing I'm seeing right -- right now from Ukrainians is they're still absorbing this because they can't believe what just happened.
But what you see on Ukrainian-language Telegram channels are people trading words of support from people like Donald Tusk in Poland, Spain and France. There's, I think, a sense, right now, that let's huddle together.
But finally, silver lining, if we can call it that, for Zelenskyy, is he will come back a hero, I think, after everyone sees how he stood up to what's supposed to be the defender of the free world.
SANCHEZ: I just want to point out, we have now gotten a statement from President Zelenskyy, and he seems to be answering that demand from J.D. Vance that he expressed gratitude.
Zelenskyy here, posting on social media, quote, "Thank you America. Thank you for your support. Thank you for this visit. Thank you, President Trump, Congress and the American people. Ukraine needs a just and lasting peace. And we are working exactly for that."
Really telling words. The president of Ukraine repeating "thank you" multiple times in this statement.
I do want to go to Admiral Stavridis, who is with us.
Admiral, to the point that Brianna and Michael Bociurkiw were just making, Zelenskyy, who was trying to express that Vladimir Putin's aspirations go beyond Ukraine.
And he sort of made the case that the U.S. may have this big, beautiful ocean, as he described it, that keeps us isolated from some of Europe's problems. But eventually, the U.S. will feel the sting of letting Vladimir Putin
act as he wishes. Trump seemed to dismiss that.
ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: History will tell you -- and by the way, I know this because I'm an admiral. Sooner or later, they come across the ocean for you, just like the Japanese Empire did on the 7th of December.
Those oceans are big and beautiful. I can attest to that, having spent a lifetime on them. They are not going to protect us from the kind of global intervention by an adventurous Vladimir Putin.
So point one is, I think Zelenskyy got the better of that argument. Point two to be made here is, OK. What -- what happens now?
[14:35:01]
I'm reminded of Senator John McCain, who I think would have some pretty strong views on all this. McCain used to say, "It always looks darkest before it goes completely black."
And I kind of feel that way coming out of this meeting in terms of U.S. support to Ukraine. Perhaps something can be salvaged. I'm hopeful.
Mike Waltz, Marco Rubio and others will try and do so. But it feels very dark for U.S. support. And that creates longer-term knock-on effects on our security.
And then, third and finally, Boris and Brianna, I think it's worth saying that this is going to put real pressure on NATO, on the idea of a NATO alliance.
As a former supreme allied commander, this is dismaying inside Brussels because it's such a sharp division between the United States and our European allies.
Maybe that Transatlantic bridge isn't about to break completely but, boy, can I hear it creaking right now.
KEILAR: What stops it from breaking, Admiral?
STAVRIDIS: Good faith on the part of all of the 32 members. If I were Secretary-General Mark Rutte right now, I would call a NATO meeting, bring the ambassadors together, and perhaps press for a summit.
This is a moment of real crisis for the NATO alliance. That's another indication of the knock-on danger here. So let's watch what happens at this Sunday meeting of the Europeans.
I'll close with this. A little ray of light in all this. If the United States were to simply stop supporting Ukraine -- let's not forget, collectively, the European economy is five times the size of Russia. Their defense spending is three times the size of Russia.
They can provide an awful lot of assistance. They can make up for a U.S. that walks away. Boy, do I hope we don't get to that point. That's when the Transatlantic bridge breaks.
KEILAR: All right. Admiral Stavridis, thank you for that.
And thank you to everyone who joined us for this discussion.
We have much more ahead. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:41:49]
KEILAR: Back now to our breaking news. President Trump kicking Ukrainian President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian delegation with him out of the White House. The group leaving shortly after a heated argument before cameras in the Oval Office.
Here's part of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your country is in big trouble.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning.
ZELENSKYY: I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning this. You have a damned good chance of --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- coming out OK because of us.
ZELENSKYY: Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong. From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone. And we are thankful. I said thanks.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You haven't been --
(CROSSTALK)
ZELENSKYY: -- this cabinet --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- you in this. We gave you through that stupid president $350 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: We gave you military equipment. You and your men are brave.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: But they had to use our military --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. OK?
ZELENSKYY: In three days. I heard it from Putin, in three days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Moments after that fiery exchange, President Trump posted this on Truth Social, saying in part, quote, "I've determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for peace if America is involved. He disrespected the United States of America and it's cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he's ready for peace."
CNN's Matthew Chance is in Moscow for us.
And, Matthew, we are seeing some celebratory responses from Russian officials.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I don't know whether they're celebratory. I mean, we're not seeing Russians sort of cracking open bottles of champagne or anything like that, which we've seen in the past, of course, with -- in 2016, when President Trump was elected for the first time.
But we are seeing Russian officials reflect that idea, which we just saw there from -- from President Trump and his Truth Social post that the White House, that Trump, that America was disrespected in some way by the Ukrainian leader.
The head of the Federation Council here, which is like the Senate, basically said that Zelenskyy was thrown out for bad behavior.
The foreign ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, said that she was surprised that Trump and Vance didn't slap Zelenskyy for the way he behaved.
And this tweet, or X posting from, Dmitry Medvedev, who's a former Russian president and former prime minister, a close ally of Putin, he's given to very outlandish statements, particularly in last couple of years.
But he said this, look, about Zelenskyy, "The insolent pig finally got a proper slap down in the Oval Office. And the real Donald Trump, President Trump is right. The Kiev regime is gambling with World War III."
And so a lot of Russian officials there, you know, publicly, at least, are reflecting that sort of sense of outrage and apparent disrespect that the White House itself is -- is -- is talking about in its -- in its reaction to this.
But I can tell you that, you know, privately, I've spoken to lots of Russians in official capacities and non-official capacities, and they said they we're absolutely gobsmacked to see two senior figures like this go at each other in public, on the television cameras, in a way that they have just not seen anyone go like that in the past.
[14:45:10]
They can't imagine, for instance, you know, Putin speaking to somebody who'd been invited to the Kremlin in that way. That's how it's been expressed to me.
And so, gobsmacked privately, publicly, supporting the lines coming out of the White House -- guys?
KEILAR: What happens now in these U.S.-Russia talks?
CHANCE: Well, it's -- it's not clear this will derail the talks because those talks, remember, are, you know, a lot about a wide range of issues. They're not just about the Ukraine war.
They're about rebuilding the embassies in each other's countries. They're about potentially reestablishing direct flights between the two countries. Basically, turning the relationship between Washington and Moscow, which has been battered over the past several years because of the war in Ukraine.
And because of other issues as well, like, you know, meddling -- remember that, meddling Russian meddling in the in the U.S. election. There's been a lot of sanctions imposed by the United States on Russia because of that.
Well, the talks are all about, you know, sweeping that away and trying to rebuild the relationship between Washington and Moscow. So it's -- it's not clear that that these will those talks will be derailed by this. In fact, they could -- they could proceed ahead.
But the idea that there's going to be a peace deal involving Ukraine at this moment seems to be something that the White House, under President Trump, is, for the moment, ruling out.
SANCHEZ: Yes, well see what comes next.
Matthew Chance, live for us in Moscow, thank you so much.
Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:51:23]
KEILAR: We do have some breaking news out of Rome. A health complication for Pope Francis. The Vatican saying that the pope is on a breathing machine after he had a sudden episode of breathing difficulty and then aspirated vomit.
SANCHEZ: You may recall the 88 year old has been in the hospital battling pneumonia for more than two weeks.
Let's take you to the Vatican now, where CNN Vatican correspondent, Christopher lamb, has the update. He's not actually at the Vatican. He's near the hospital where the pope is being treated.
Christopher, this is obviously a serious complication.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Boris. It is a setback for Pope Francis because, the last few days, we had heard good news of improvement, that the pope was responding to treatment.
However, this news tonight is concerning. Francis, we are told, had a bronchospasm, which is a tightening of the bronchi, making it difficult for him to breathe. That was then complicated by a vomiting episode where he -- which he inhaled vomit, which made it very difficult for him to breathe.
And then he was put on this machine, ventilation, a noninvasive breathing ventilation. But obviously, a heightening or intensification of the oxygen administration that the pope needs at this time.
Francis is 88 years old. He has pneumonia in both lungs. He's been in the hospital now for 15 days. It's the longest hospital stay of his pontificate.
There is real concern and anxiety here in the Vatican. And each night people are gathering behind me here at St. Peter's to pray for the pope.
A Vatican source says the next 24 to 48 hours are crucial in determining whether the pope's overall condition has deteriorated to decide whether this is a temporary setback or whether it is something more serious.
But we are going to get an update from the Vatican on Saturday morning, and of course, well bring those to you as soon as we can -- Boris?
SANCHEZ: And, Christopher, what is the -- the mood out there like? I understand that there have been supporters and well-wishers gathering to pray and to hold vigils for the pope.
LAMB: Yes, that's right. Both at the hospital, people have been gathering to pray, and here in St. Peter's Square. Each night, people are coming to St. Peter's Square in their hundreds to pray for the pope.
Tonight, a prayer service will be led by Cardinal Fernandez, who is, like the pope from Argentina, he's a very close friend of the pope. He will be leading the prayers tonight for Pope Francis. There's obviously a state of anxiety, I would say, and concern here at
the Vatican and in Rome. People are checking their phones day and night for updates. There's a lot of concern.
As I say tonight, a setback after the generally more encouraging news. But we were told by doctors that there would be ups and downs in this journey of the popes health condition.
SANCHEZ: Christopher Lamb, live for us in St. Peter's Square in Vatican City, thank you so much for the update.
[14:54:39]
Stay with CNN. We're back in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KEILAR: We're following breaking news. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will soon be leaving Washington after an explosive Oval Office meeting with President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance before the cameras, before reporters.
The president and vice president berating Zelenskyy, who was there to try to hammer out a natural-resources deal and have a joint press conference as part of U.S. efforts to end the war with Russia.
SANCHEZ: We're learning that after this extraordinary exchange in the Oval Office, Trump and Zelenskyy went into separate rooms. A White House official telling CNN that Trump huddled with his key advisers and decided to kick Zelenskyy out.
With Trump then posting on social media that he "can come back when he is ready for peace."
Here is part of the heated discussion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:59:57]
TRUMP: It's not a question of alignment. I have to -- I'm aligned with the world. I want to get the thing set. I'm aligned with Europe. I want to see if we can get this thing done.
You want me to be tough?
