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Santa Fe Police To Give Update on Gene Hackman's Death; More GOP Lawmakers Get Slammed by Angry Constituents Over DOGE Cuts; Florida Marine Vet Losses Probationary Job At The IRS In DOGE Sweep. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired March 03, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:03]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The deaths of Hollywood legend, Gene Hackman, and his wife remain a mystery, but we could soon see what authorities encountered when they arrived at their home.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Investigators are expected to release body cam footage in the coming days from multiple agencies showing events on the day their bodies were discovered.

CNN's Veronica Miracle joins us now. She's been covering the deaths in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Veronica, what is on this footage?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boris and Brianna, we expect to see when authorities first arrived. Now, multiple agencies were wearing body cameras we understand.

And so there's a lot of footage that police are having to go through. They're having to redact a lot of it for the privacy of Gene Hackman, Betsy Arakawa and their families, of course.

But what it will show, hopefully, is what it looked like, what the scene looked like when police first arrived. Was the door open? There has been some confusion about was the door left ajar.

Police say that inside the home it did not appear that there was any sign of burglary. That that there wasn't any sign of foul play. It didn't look like the house was ransacked. So we'll get a little bit more insight into that.

We also understand that one of the dogs was dead in the crate, but there we're two dogs running around on the property. So what were the conditions of the home, as well as where in the home the bodies we're found and what had happened there?

Now, we were expecting to get that body footage released possibly today, but it looks like that's not going to be the case because there's so much footage they have to go through and so much they have to redact. And Boris and Brianna, forgive us. The wind is very punishing out here

right now in Santa Fe. So we're kind of dealing with that.

But at this point, what we do know is that there was no sign of carbon monoxide poisoning. They tested negative for that. Both bodies did, according to police, according to the sheriff, rather.

There we're no signs of foul play. Again, the home did not appear to be ransacked. And according to data from Gene Hackman pacemaker, he was dead for at least nine days before authorities found him -- Brianna, Boris?

KEILAR: And you're also hearing from those who knew the couple. What have they shared, Veronica?

MIRACLE: Well, we know that Gene Hackman and his wife, they moved here. They left Hollywood. They were living a private life out of the spotlight. And Gene Hackman, he was 95 years old. He was much older.

So friends say they hadn't seen him in a while. He hadn't come into town. And they had last seen Betsy Arakawa at her business about three weeks prior to her death.

So picture of a reclusive, private couple who didn't really make it into town a lot in recent days and recent months. But that was their choice.

Of course, so many people shocked by this. And of course, many people across Hollywood, celebrities mourning the death of Gene Hackman, honoring him at the Oscars last night -- Brianna?

KEILAR: All right. Veronica, thank you so much for that.

A Republican Senator walking out of his town hall after he's asked about veterans being fired by the Department of Government Efficiency. Next, we'll be talking to a former Marine caught up in the mass firings.

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[13:37:34]

KEILAR: Some new backlash over the Department of Government Efficiency's dramatic government cuts. More Republican lawmakers getting an earful from angry constituents.

Listen to what happened when Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas suddenly left his contentious town hall during a question-and-answer session about U.S. veterans getting fired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But what you're doing right now, like the government is doing right now, as far as cutting out those jobs, a huge percentage of those people -- and I know you care about the veterans. The veterans. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that is a damned shame.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is a damned shame.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not a Democrat, but I'm worried about the veterans, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

(APPLAUSE)

SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): Thank you. All right. Well, I yield it to one of my -- my elders, and I appreciate his comments. I think it's a great -- I'm not going to -- we don't have time for anyone to stand up. I do got two more commitments today.

Appreciate everybody making the drive out. And God bless America. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

MARSHALL: Thank you.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is going to take pictures with you, buddy? Right?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- to vote you out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining us now is Doug Jackson. He is a Marine veteran. He is one of many federal employees who has been among the Trump administration's firings. He recently lost his probationary job at the IRS.

Doug, just, first off, you know, tell us why you chose to work for the federal government. What attracted you to this work?

DOUG JACKSON, VETERAN & FEDERAL EMPLOYEE FIRED BY DOGE: Sure. Thanks for having me on, Brianna.

You know, the federal government is a natural fit for a lot of veterans. One of the first things you do when you become a civil servant is you raise your right hand and take the oath to support and defend the Constitution. And that's something that we all did when we wore the uniform. And I think it's an extension of our military service to continue

serving in the federal government and looking out for the public interest.

KEILAR: And just to be clear about your job that you were holding, that you we're new to, you did public affairs for the IRS. If anyone could use that, I think we could agree it would be the IRS.

What does it mean? Firing people in those positions.

[13:40:04]

JACKSON: Well, you know, it's not good on a personal level. It puts people's lives livelihood in jeopardy. It turns their lives upside down.

And so now they have to figure out how they're going to pay their bills. And now they have a new job, which is applying and networking and so on. On an individual level, you know, it's turning lives upside down with uncertainty.

But also on the larger scale for an agency like the IRS, they need public affairs officers. They need people who are expert communicators who can reach the public in a meaningful way and explain new policies and even speak to the workforce.

And so you know, it's -- its going to have a negative effect. I can't imagine cutting people like me or anyone really, across the IRS or the federal government is going to hurt -- is going to help the mission.

KEILAR: And just explain your situation. It sounds like they went through the probationary cuts, and you we're so new that the ax initially didn't hit you, but then they -- they came back to get you. Is that right?

JACKSON: Yes, that's exactly right. I had a coworker who is a disabled Army veteran who received her termination on a Thursday. I knew I was in the same category as she was, but I was even newer than she was.

And so I did not receive a termination notice that same day. But the very next day, on Friday, I received a call from my team leader that Friday, that day I was receiving the call was, in fact, my last day.

And that a letter was being overnighted to me, and that would be my official termination letter.

KEILAR: What message does that send to you? You mentioned your coworker, a disabled veteran. What message does that send, firing folks like that, to the veteran community?

JACKSON: Yes, sure. So I think the mass wave of firing -- of federal employees who have been fired by DOGE, I think it sends two messages. One you know, it's telling veterans, thank you for your service, but that's not enough. The government is in debt, and we also need to take your job. So that's one. And the second thing that I think it's telling veterans is, you know,

that you are part of the problem, not the solution. And it suggests that, as veterans working for the federal government, that we are somehow deadweight or a burden on the government. And I think that's a real shame.

KEILAR: I wanted to ask you something because I think people are really looking at these IRS firings, and they're very concerned.

In fact, I was speaking to a veteran who was fired in the Department of Agriculture. And one of the things that worried them was the IRS firings, because so many folks who find themselves without a job are really going to be looking for that lifeline of their tax return.

You're in public affairs. You were in public affairs, but there are all kinds of different jobs that have been targeted or are expected to be targeted. Do you worry that firings at the IRS could impact tax returns?

JACKSON: I'm not sure. I mean, I wasn't an agent. I worked with others who were. I can't imagine that this is going to have a positive effect on turnaround time for returns.

But like you said, there are other agencies affected. And the federal government already has a difficult time recruiting, retaining their workers. And so this is going to have a discouraging effect across the workforce.

KEILAR: Doug, thank you so much for being with us and telling us your story. I know it's not easy and we really appreciate it.

JACKSON: Of course. Thank you. Brianna.

[13:43:47]

As the deadly measles outbreak in Texas grows, Health Secretary RFK Jr issuing a call to action but stopping short of calling for a very specific life saving measure. We'll have that next.

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[13:48:40]

SANCHEZ: As the measles outbreak in west Texas approaches 150 cases. HHS services -- HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr is weighing in saying it's a, quote, "call to action."

His comments were part of an opinion piece for FOX News. And we should note that he does mention vaccines as an option, but he doesn't explicitly recommend people get them, which he says is a personal decision.

KEILAR: He also fails to mention that the vaccination rate for Gaines County, Texas, where most of the cases are, is only 82 percent. And that's far short of that 95 percent threshold, the so important threshold that the department he now leads has said is necessary to prevent outbreaks.

Joining us now to discuss is CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner.

So, Dr. Reiner, first off, just looking at what RFK said here, what is lacking in your opinion?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Oh, my god, how hard is it to tell a state where there is a -- an aggressive measles outbreak, how hard is it to tell parents in that state simply if your children are not vaccinated for measles, get them vaccinated?

You know, what he says in that piece is that it's a personal choice. But the truth of the matter is that every state in the union and the District of Columbia requires kids to be vaccinated for measles before they go to kindergarten.

[13:50:06]

So every state doesn't think it's a personal choice. The state of Texas happens to have a very liberal opt-out policy, which is why, in that county, so many kids are unvaccinated.

But every state in this country has felt that it's in the community interest to have a measles vaccine for all kids. And -- and he just refuses to say it.

SANCHEZ: I also think the language is interesting, Doctor. This is a reminder of what we typically hear from public health officials.

This is from a measles outbreak in 2019. Alex Azar, then Trump's health secretary, called the measles vaccine, quote, "safe, highly effective and among the most studied medical products."

Kennedy, in his statement, doesn't say anything like that. He writes that health care providers, leaders and policymakers need to, quote, "ensure that accurate information about vaccine safety and efficacy is disseminated."

He seems to suggest that there is inaccurate information about them being safe. Am I reading that incorrectly?

REINER: You're reading that -- you're reading his feeling correctly.

During his confirmation hearings, I think Senator Cassidy finally got him to say that he could consider, you know, changing his mind about the measles vaccine if there was, you know, sufficient safety data.

But the truth of the matter is, this vaccine has been given to children since 1963. So there are 62 years of safety and efficacy data for this vaccine. And it is remarkably effective, one of the most effective vaccines we've ever seen.

Two -- two shots confer a lifetime immunity of 97 percent. And we have 60-plus years of safety data. He just refuses to -- he just refuses to believe it. He founded this entity called the Children's Health Defense, which has

been one of the most prolific disseminators of misinformation about the measles vaccine.

So he can't say that a parent should vaccinate their children because he doesn't believe it. But yet, he's running the largest network of health agencies in the United States.

I happen to think that if America's secretary of HHS during a measles outbreak won't explicitly tell parents of unvaccinated children to vaccinate their kids, then he should resign. It's not the right job for him.

KEILAR: As you mentioned, that network that he founded and having such proximity or involvement in lawsuits that have to do with vaccines. Can you just talk about what kind of conflict that creates and how that should properly be handled by someone who is an HHS secretary dealing with a measles outbreak?

REINER: Well, I think it's an irreconcilable conflict. He's made millions of dollars during his career in suing vaccine manufacturers.

So how can the agency that regulates vaccines in the United States, how can the person that runs that agency continue to do that when they have such a long, intertwined history with suing companies -- suing that that manufacture vaccines? I think it's just completely irreconcilable conflict.

SANCHEZ: Among options that he lists for potential treatment, he talks about vitamin A. What kind of an effect will Vitamin A have for measles patients?

REINER: You know, it's interesting. He spends a lot of time promoting, you know, Vitamin A for treatment of people who get measles but doesn't promote the most effective way of preventing measles.

It turns out that measles is much more destructive and more lethal and damaging in kids who are Vitamin A deficient. There aren't a lot of kids in the United States who are Vitamin A deficient.

But in parts of places like Africa, that is a big problem. And the World Health Organization, for that reason, advocates treating kids with measles with Vitamin A.

So the CDC is now recommending that because it basically can't hurt. And if the child happens to be Vitamin A deficient, the Vitamin A will -- will help.

But I think it's mostly a helpful strategy in children who are Vitamin A deficient. Helps to prevent blindness in those children as well.

I think it's fine to give these kids Vitamin A, but it's imperative to -- to vaccinate them to prevent the illness in the first place.

SANCHEZ: Dr. Jonathan Reiner, appreciate your expertise. Thanks for joining us. REINER: My pleasure.

[13:54:53]

SANCHEZ: In just a few minutes, first lady, Melania Trump, is scheduled to make a rare public remark. The cause that has her on Capitol Hill today.

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[14:00:06]

KEILAR: Pressure campaign. U.S. officials suggesting that Ukraine needs a new president after --