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Rep. Brandon Gill (R-TX) Discusses Trump Memo On Plans To Cut 70,000-Plus Jobs At Veterans Affairs Dept; Ukrainian & U.S. Officials To Meet In Saudi Arabia Next Week; European Leaders Meet With Zelenskyy In Brussels. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired March 06, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

REP. BRANDON GILL (R-TX): I mean, these are serious operational problems that he's going in and addressing. And they've happened because we've allowed the bureaucracy to metastasize with virtually no oversight.

And we're finally getting oversight and accountability back to Washington. That's something that everybody, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, should support.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: I do want to just point out for our viewers the allegation that there are 300-year-old people receiving paychecks from the government has not been verified by DOGE. It's believed that that was as a result of a coding error.

CNN tried to verify the information that was provided and received no response.

I do want to ask you one more question, Congressman. You have family --

GILL: They did find -- they did find those listings in there. And to your point, if there is a coding error, that is precisely my point.

SANCHEZ: Yes, but that doesn't mean that people are receiving checks.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: That doesn't mean that people are receiving.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: That doesn't mean that there's 150-year-old person who's receiving checks, sir, to be clear. They haven't verified that those people received any payments, those theoretical people.

Nevertheless, before we go, Congressman, I do want to ask you one more question that I know is probably personally important to you.

You have family who served in the armed forces. I imagine you've heard the news regarding planned cuts at the V.A. There's this memo outlining more than 70,000 workers that are set to be let go. Can you assure veterans that their services will not be interrupted by

these cuts?

GILL: Well, first of all, I want to -- I want to go back to that. What the problem with the Social Security is that they're not communicating with other agencies that are sending out checks. That's what they've identified.

But as it relates to the V.A., I'd like to remind people that nobody in the United States has a right, by God, to have a job at taxpayer expense at the federal government, myself included.

But my children and our grandchildren do have a birthright to inherit a country that is not bankrupt.

What Elon Musk and what has been proposed at the V.A. is simply bringing the size of the agency back to 2019 levels. The V.A. has been a complete mess.

I talked to veterans in my district all the time who cannot even get health care because they get on waiting lists that last months and months, and then they get denied, or then they get passed on to another agency or another arm of the V.A.

It is completely unworkable. So if we want these systems to actually work for the American people -- and again, I think that that should be the case on a bipartisan basis. Both Republicans and Democrats should want the V.A. to provide good benefits for our veterans.

We have got to get this agency under control. And that's what this administration is doing. This is the first administration that has been serious about getting these agencies under control.

And there's been blowback after blowback from the other side of the aisle, unfortunately, who are trying to thwart them every single step of the way. This has got to stop. We want our government to work for the American people.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Brandon Gill, we have to leave the conversation there. We appreciate you sharing your point of view.

GILL: Boris, thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Next, a top Ukrainian official accuses the U.S. of destroying the world order, as France's president says his country may need to extend its nuclear arsenal to guard against Russia.

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[13:37:36]

SANCHEZ: Some news we're tracking just into CNN. A source tells us that U.S. and Ukrainian officials are planning to meet in Saudi Arabia next week, hoping to restart talks after that explosive clash between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the Oval Office. Special envoy, Steve Witkoff -- Steve Witkoff spoke just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: And I think the idea is to get down a framework for a peace agreement and an initial ceasefire -- ceasefire as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is unfolding as European leaders hold an emergency summit with President Zelenskyy in Brussels, hoping to increase defense spending for Ukraine's fight against Russia.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Let's go now to CNN's Nic Robertson, who is live for us in Brussels.

And, Nic, let's start with these talks in Saudi Arabia. How significant is this? What are the stakes?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, I think what we've been hearing from President Zelenskyy and other -- other officials from Ukraine, perhaps with the exception of the ambassador to the U.K. who was speaking in London today.

But mostly the messaging towards the White House since that horrible bust up with Zelenskyy and President Trump and J.D. Vance less than a week ago, has been trying to be positive. So I think the Ukrainians are going to look optimistically on this.

But I mean, let's also look at the optics of this. How extraordinary is it that these two nations that were essentially joined at the hip a little over a month ago, should now be meeting in a third country to have discussions not at -- not at the top level, but to have discussions and they need to meet in a third country?

I think this really underscores how difficult the relationship is at the moment. They could have met in a European country, although it does seem that President Trump is not as happy as he could be, or not happy at all with the position the Europeans are taking with Ukraine at the moment.

So this really speaks, I think, to the -- to the greater difficulty. But sets Ukraine's relationship with the United States and Europe's relationship with the United States, vis a vis, Ukraine.

What we've been hearing here in this meeting is really about how Europe is so worried about that relationship. It's not just taking massive and unprecedented in recent history steps to massively increase defense spending, to secure its own defense, but also Ukraine's defense.

And when he was here, President Zelenskyy, to get a sense of how isolated he has felt now from the United States.

[13:40:01] And given, in the last couple of days, the United States has now decided to withhold not just military hardware aid, but also vital U.S. actionable intelligence on the ground that the fighting forces need every day.

Zelenskyy, when he was here, really went out of his way to thank the Europeans for the support he's getting.

This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: During all this period and last week, you stay with us. And of course, from all the Ukrainians, from all our nations, big appreciation. We are very thankful that we are not alone. And these are not just words. We feel it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Yes, that "not being alone" is hugely important for Zelenskyy. But the reality here, of course, is that Europe is not able to rush in and fill, in immediate terms, the security gaps that the United States is leaving in its support for Ukraine.

And that's something Zelenskyy is going to have to live with, which is what will make those talks in Saudi Arabia or wherever they are attractive.

Because, as the Europeans do, so does Ukraine need that U.S. security support right now in the battle with Russia.

KEILAR: Yes, they certainly do.

Nic Robertson, thank you so much for that report from Brussels.

And next, a leaked memo revealing the Trump administration's plans to fire more than 70,000 employees at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Can that be done, though, without impacting veterans' health care and benefits? We will ask President Trump's former V.A. secretary right after this.

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[13:45:42]

KEILAR: In today's "HOME FRONT," how firings of the federal workforce are affecting military veterans.

CNN has obtained an internal memo from the chief of staff of Veterans Affairs detailing plans to fire tens of thousands of V.A. employees. More than 70,000 workers could be impacted.

And the whiplash caused by Department of Government Efficiency chaos has already cost more than 1,000 V.A. workers their jobs, and many of them are veterans. And 30 percent of the federal workforce has served in the military,

and a majority of veterans said that they were voting for Donald Trump in the 2024 election.

In my column out today at CNN.com/homefront, I speak with a veteran in Kansas fired from the Department of Agriculture who voted for President Trump.

And he describes terminations that have upended the lives of many employees in his agency as a "sudden drawdown poorly executed."

He told me, quote, "I'm sorry to put it like this. It was like the pullout of Afghanistan."

Dr. David Shulkin is with us now. He is it the former Veterans Affairs secretary under President Trump in his first term.

And talking, David, with this -- this memo that we now have access to about returning staffing to 2019 levels, up to 70,000 positions terminated. When you look at that, can you do that at the Veterans Affairs Department without impacting veteran health care and benefits?

DR. DAVID SHULKIN, FORMER VETERANS AFFAIRS SECRETARY UNDER TRUMP IN FIRST TERM: Brianna, it's pretty concerning how you can do that. You know, if there's one thing that I know Americans are unified on, it's the desire to get veterans the benefits and services that they've earned and in their sacrifice for this country.

And I do applaud the administration for taking a look at how they can make this agency work better. We cannot continue the status quo.

The wait times are going up. There are 935,000 claims in backlog for benefits. There are --veteran suicide is actually on the rise. We have tens of thousands of homeless veterans. So we do need to take a look at how to improve this system.

But I don't know any system that slashes it's way to excellence. And what we haven't seen, while we've heard about all of the contracts being canceled, we've heard about employees that are going to be laid off, what we haven't really heard are the plans to make this system better.

And if you reduce the number of employees at the same time that we've recently added 400,000 new veterans to the V.A. system in the past 12 months, and we've given all these expansion of benefits, and you slash the number of employees, I don't see how you're going to get to a better outcome.

Unless you're investing in technologies to help the staff do a better job, unless you're opening up this system to the community care approach. And so we just haven't heard about any of those plans.

KEILAR: Yes, millions more veterans now eligible for benefits and services since President Biden signed that toxic exposure bill, The Pact Act, which had so much broad support. We're hearing Secretary Collins, the V.A. secretary, insisting that

these DOGE recommended changes, at least recommended, won't affect care for veterans.

But, you know, there are already reports of overburdened benefits staff that have been canned in these early firings. I'm hearing worry among V.A. employees that mental health professionals are among those who have been cut so far.

That's not even among these 70,000 that we're talking about what they're planning for.

I even heard from one veteran who has voluntarily stopped getting their mental health care because they have a fear that DOGE may access their records, because we know that DOGE has been going into systems in different agencies.

What does that kind of thing mean for the services the V.A. provides veterans?

SHULKIN: Well, look, the V.A. is a terrific national resource and it's filled with people that are there to help veterans. So the one thing we don't want to do is lose the confidence in the V.A.

[13:49:59]

There are people trying to do a great job, but morale is very low right now.

And when you're slashing the workforce and you're not giving a plan as an alternative to be able to help modernize the V.A., to be able to relook at these access standards so that veterans aren't waiting for care, then that's where you begin to start losing that confidence.

And, you know, we've worked really hard to make the V.A. a better place. And I know that Secretary Collins wants to continue that and wants to strengthen this.

But you can't cancel the amount of contracts that have been done. You can't fire 70,000 to 80,000 people who work in the health care system and still meet all the needs of the veterans who need this care and who need these benefits.

Unless you come alongside with it a plan to really invest in the technology and make sure that this system is working for the veterans. And we just haven't heard that piece of it yet.

KEILAR: You mentioned contracts that have been cut. Collins initially defended planned contract cuts as consulting deals that the V.A. could do without to save money. He minimized what those planned cuts were.

But then a week ago, the V.A. actually took a pause on those proposed cuts, some of those cuts, after there were concerns it would have a negative effect on health care services for veterans.

Does he need to be more forthcoming when it comes to describing what is happening here, to make sure that he retains the faith of veterans?

SHULKIN: I think that the secretary is trying to be forthcoming. I think that he's communicating a great deal. But I think that it is very hard to understand what the consequences are of canceling these contracts when you're doing this as fast as they're doing it.

So it may sound like it's a good idea to cancel a contract, but unless you really understand what those services are and what the second- degree consequences of those decisions are, you end up at big risk of impacting the services that are being delivered to the veterans.

Because so much of the care right now is a combination between the private sector through these contracts, helping the V.A. deliver on the obligation that we have to our veterans.

So it is a concern how quickly we're moving and the lack of understanding of what some of these decisions may bring.

KEILAR: Dr. David Shulkin, former secretary of the V.A., thank you so much for being with us.

SHULKIN: Glad to be here.

KEILAR: And well be right back.

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[13:57:41]

SANCHEZ: It's been more than a year since three friends we're found dead outside a Kansas City home, two days after watching a Chiefs football game. Today, two men have been charged with their deaths.

CNN law enforcement correspondent, Whitney Wild, joins us now.

Whitney, talk to us about those charges.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, what we know is that two men, Jordan Willis and Ivory Carson, are each charged with one count of delivery of a controlled substance and three counts of involuntary manslaughter.

Boris, this case started January 7, 2024, when three men, Clayton McGeeney, Ricky Johnson and David Harrington, got together to watch a Kansas City Chiefs football game. Two days later, those three men were found dead outside the home of Jordan Willis in this snow-filled backyard.

Police have spent the last 14 months combing through investigative -- you know, combing through evidence and speaking with witnesses. And what they have been able to determine was that those three men died of a cocaine and fentanyl toxicity.

Now, they say that they've charged the two men responsible, again, Jordan Willis and Ivory Carson. Willis' attorney told CNN in a statement that they we're really

surprised that Jordan Willis was charged in this case. CNN had previously spoken to his attorney, who said that he did not know anything about this. He described him as distraught prior.

Now, today, his attorney is saying that Jordan maintains that he is not responsible for purchasing or supplying the drugs that led to the deaths of his three friends. They say they're very much looking forward to their day in court.

As for Ivory Carson, Boris, we have not been able to contact a defense attorney for him because there is not one listed in the court records -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Whitney Wild, thank you so much for the update.

So Ontario, Canada, has just announced retaliatory tariffs and they're likely to drive up the price of electricity for some Americans. We'll talk about who's impacted and by how much in just moments. Stay with us.

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