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U.S. and Ukraine Hold Talks; Rep. Mark Alford (R-MO) is Interviewed about The Spending Bill; Five Years Since Covid-19. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 11, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Power as Russia also now accuses Ukraine of launching a massive drone attack. This explosion that you're seeing there happening just south of Moscow.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: That is the explosion. Russia blaming that on drones from Ukraine.

Let's bring in Alex Marquardt. He is in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, where these talks are happening at the moment.

Alex, what can you tell us right now? These talks are ongoing. What are you hearing?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: They are very much ongoing, Sara, in this hotel in Jeddah. They are

now entering their fourth hour. We don't really have a sense of when they are going to wrap up. The U.S. and Ukrainian delegations across from each other at a long wooden table. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, National Security Adviser Mike Waltz, across from the Ukrainian delegation, including President Zelenskyy's chief of staff, Andriy Yermak.

On the way into this meeting, we did hear Rubio say that he would be in listening mode, that he's waiting to hear what difficult decisions, what concessions the Ukrainians might be willing to make to get to an eventual peace deal with the Russians. That is a question that some reporters and I put to Yermak when we spoke with him in the lobby. He didn't talk specifically about what they may be willing to do. He said that the priority is to get these conversations going so that an eventual peace can be reached.

Here's a little bit more of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRIY YERMAK, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY'S CHIEF OF STAFF: Now we - we think it's necessary to - to discuss the - the most importance how to start this process. And we very openly were very open and we want to have very constructive deep friend, partners, conversations with our American partners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And, Sara, what is certain to come up is that pause on military and intelligence sharing. Secretary of State Rubio saying that this meeting is key to see whether the U.S. would get that back online. Of course, security guarantees are another thing that Ukraine is almost certain to bring up.

This meeting coming just hours after that astonishing drone strike by Ukraine against Russia, possibly the biggest since the war began. Not just interesting because they launched it on the same day as these talks, but also because Ukraine is proposing a ceasefire, a partial ceasefire, in order to get to the next stage in negotiations. That would be essentially, they say, a pause on aerial bombardments by both Ukraine and Russia against civilian and energy infrastructure, as well as a stop to the fighting in the Black Sea.

And if the U.S. sees that as something that is serious enough, they could then take that to the Russians. But very important to show - to state - to note that the Russians have not given any indications that they are willing to compromise or offer any concessions of their own.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, before that attack in Moscow, there was the - the bombardment of the Kursk region by Russia, as - just before all this began. So, we will see kind of what happens here in that meeting. But it going on for four hours now. I know you will get good reporting when it is over.

Alex Marquardt, thank you so much for being there for us and being a fly on the wall, if you will, in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us right now is CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, and retired U.S. Air Force colonel, CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Gentlemen, good to see you.

Colonel, let's jump in where - what Alex was talking about, that astonishing attack overnight. You can add this now into the mix, which is Russia saying it downed more than 300 Ukrainian drones launched at its territory. If confirmed, this aerial attack would represent one of the largest on Russia since its invasion of Ukraine. What do you make of the message and the timing?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, I think it's very interesting, Kate. Good morning.

There are a lot of aspects to this, but the Ukrainians are clearly sending a message. Their drone industry is alive and well, number one. Number two, their targeting is pretty accurate. And it's designed to really send a message to the Russians that not only is the front line at risk, but Moscow itself is at risk. About 70 of those 300 plus drones made it to Moscow City, 90 some were in the region of Moscow, according to some of the reports. So, if that is all confirmed, that indicates a very serious and sustained barrage that attacked the Russian infrastructure, as well as possibly some critical plants for the war effort, as well.

BOLDUAN: And Nic, as Alex was saying, four hours in this meeting so far. You know, you wonder, is that good news? Is that bad news? We'll find out what they say when they come out. But what do you see in this moment? Marco Rubio going in and saying going in, he wants to find out what concessions Ukraine is ready to make.

[08:35:03]

How does that set the stage for what are - what will or will not come out of this?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I thought it was very interesting. I mean, look, four hours in compared to the 40 minutes of bombastic non-conversation, if you will, in the White House Oval Office just a couple of weeks ago. So, already they're in - they're in positive territory, right? This is going on for a while.

Marco Rubio went in saying, look, this isn't going to get into detail. We're not going to be talking about maps. He also made the very interesting comment to the journalists on the plane before he landed, saying, look, you're veterans of negotiations like this. You know that the real stuff happens behind closed doors, which - which was a very interesting comment, you know, saying essentially real negotiations happen behind closed doors, which again raises the question of what actually really was the intent and purpose of what actually transpired in the Oval Office.

But, to the point of the conversation that they're having now, it does seem to be heading in a way that both sides are spending time listening to each other to - to explore what the other has to say. And this is - this is really high stakes for the Ukrainians. If they don't get the messaging right to Marco Rubio and the others in that room, then the message that goes back to President Trump will be, actually, these guys are not really serious. And that's the threshold. Being serious is the threshold. Quite what that looks like and technically is the threshold for continuing to get - or the restart of weapons from the United States, which is hugely important to Ukrainians.

And I thought it was very interesting listening to Zelenskyy's chief of staff there, talking about the start of a process. So, he's talking about, this is the start, not the end, not the middle. This is a process, indicating something long that's not going to be over quickly. The Ukrainians are trying to balance getting U.S. weapons supplies restarted with what they can count on for the Europeans, which is looking better than it was two weeks ago. So, four hours, this is positive territory. But the result of it, we don't know yet.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

And, Colonel, how much room do you think there is to negotiate here, kind of in the lay of the land of what's happened with this war? I mean what are you listening for coming out of this?

LEIGHTON: Yes, one of the things I'm interested in is how much intelligence support the Ukrainians are going to be getting. In addition to the weapons that Nic mentioned, the intelligence part is going to be critical for Ukrainian targeting efforts and basically for early warning so that they can prevent attacks, or at least casualties, against civilian targets in Ukraine itself. So, that's one thing that I'm listening for.

The other thing is, what's the plan forward. Ukraine and U.S. negotiators should actually be allies. So, this part shouldn't be the difficult part.

The real difficult part is going to be with the Russians, because the Russians are looking at this and they're saying, we've got some advantages on the battlefield, and we're going to exploit those advantages. And I think the plan going forward, which - which should be a joint plan between Ukraine and the U.S., should be one in which they deal with the Russians in a - in a serious way. But the Russians may not want to play ball. And that's going to be, I think, the critical aspect of this.

BOLDUAN: Yes, all the questions being, to this point, what is Ukraine willing to give up. The serious questions of what Russia is willing to give up not yet being posed at all on any front.

It's great to see you guys. Thank you so much. Colonel, Nic, we're looking to your expertise and your guidance once this however many hour meeting wraps up today. Thank you both.

Coming up for us, they spent more than a decade in prison for a crime they did not commit. Now, two men who found justice in 2019 are celebrating a new legal victory.

And breaking overnight, more than a dozen kids hurt in a New Jersey school bus crash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:43:27]

BOLDUAN: It's a big day on Capitol Hill. Vice President J.D. Vance is headed there soon to meet with House Republicans ahead of an expected vote today on their stopgap spending bill. Something needs to happen, no matter what, by Friday to avoid a government shutdown.

And all eyes are on Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson as he unveiled the stopgap measure. Because with Democrats planning to vote against the bill, Speaker Johnson has zero margin for error. They can only lose one Republican vote and still get this through given the margins.

And already right there you see the one Republican, Tom Massie, who's already announced that he is voting no.

Joining us right now is Republican Congressman Mark Alford of Missouri. He sits on the critical House Appropriations Committee.

Congressman, thank you so much for coming in.

A lot can change over the course of the next few hours. With that caveat, I wanted to ask you, what are you expecting or hoping to hear from the vice president this morning?

REP. MARK ALFORD (R-MO): Well, I think laying out the president's plan to get this CR done, put America first, making sure that as many Republicans are on board with this as possible. I know President Trump has personally reached out to individuals, trying to convince them that this CR is the - is the right way to go. It is going to make sure that our - our military gets a 20 percent pay raise. It's going to freeze other spending. It's going to allow the Department of Defense to enter into some new contracts. And, most importantly, Kate, I think it will allow us to get on with other business that we have to do, the reconciliation process.

And also, once we get the president's budget, I was talking with Tom Cole, the appropriations chair, last night, we're going to get to work on the 12 appropriation bills and getting them out of committee, just like we did last year.

[08:45:09]

Hopefully get them all across the House floor this year.

BOLDUAN: And that would be - that would be the actual business and job of Congress.

ALFORD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And that would be getting back to something that is very rare these days.

Do you think there are enough Republican votes to get this passed without Democrats?

ALFORD: I think there are. You know, there are some very astute Republican members of Congress who have legitimate questions and concerns because they've been here some time and they have seen the CR after CR after CR come about and leadership say, hey, this is going to happen again.

Mike Johnson is doing the best he can to - to turn this aircraft carrier around and get us back to regular order. It's not a ski boat. It's not going to turn on a dime. And so this is the first step to doing that. We've got to get another six months under our belt, get the reconciliation process done, get the tax cuts and Jobs Act renewed so we won't have the largest tax increase in U.S. history.

BOLDUAN: Tom Massie is the one Republican, he's made clear, he's a hard no right now. The president went after him overnight. As I - as I woke up I saw the social media post saying that he wants to see Tom Massie voted out because of it, saying, I mean, he went on and on on his Truth - on his post. ALFORD: Right.

BOLDUAN: He said, "he should be primaried. I will lead the charge against him. He's just another grandstander who's too much trouble and not worth the fight."

I mean, do you do you agree that Massie should be primaried?

ALFORD: Look, I don't believe anyone should be going after another Republican to be primaried. That happened to some members of the Freedom Caucus last go around. I don't take part in that, but that's up to the president of the United States. I think it's his way of trying to apply a little pressure, maybe, and let others know what some of the possibilities may be.

I love Tom Massie. Tom Massie and I are friends. He's a principled man. I knew he was going to be no on this, but he is a very consistent person, and I like that.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that - consistent on this front is definitely something that Tom Massie is.

Democrats believe that what this CR does - and we just heard from a Democrat earlier in the show, Brad Schneider, saying this, is they believe that why - why they're voting against it, they say, is that this CR would allow the White House to accelerate, to go even further in dismantling agencies and programs that you have funded, which Congress - which is Congress' job.

ALFORD: Right.

BOLDUAN: Giving Elon Musk and Donald Trump more - the ability to go further and faster with slashing the government. Is that what this does?

ALFORD: It is not that at all. I know, you know, I kind of feel for the Democrats because really they have no leader, they have no message, and they have no vision right now. And they're flailing like a drowning victim out in the deep ocean. And I think the CR is a lifeline for the American people. If they don't want to grab hold of it, I feel bad for them because this is going to get us to the next step.

Look, they want to stop DOGE. They want to stop Elon Musk. They want to stop the cuts and the savings on waste, abuse and fraud in the federal government. And so they're throwing nails out in the road hoping to flatten the tires. And I get it. It's a point of desperation. They have said before that they would never vote for a government shutdown. And that's what they're going to be voting for, a Democrat shutdown of the U.S. federal government.

BOLDUAN: Well, I mean, Democrats also have a legitimate point. They don't have the power to shut it down because they don't have majorities in the Congress, though the margins are thin.

On this whole thing, part of the biggest part of this conversation that I want to make sure we hit on is the biggest source of government spending is on America's entitlement programs, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.

ALFORD: Right.

BOLDUAN: Elon Musk now says that is one of his targets. I want to play for you how he talked about this in a new interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: The INAUDIBLE) in - in entitlement spending, you know, which is - all of the - which is most of the federal spending is entitlements. So, that - that's - that's like the big one to eliminate. You know, that's the sort of half trillion, maybe 600, 700 billion a year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That's the big one to eliminate.

ALFORD: Well -

BOLDUAN: If he moves to largely eliminate entitlement programs. Are you OK with it?

ALFORD: Look, Elon Musk is a brainiac with an IQ that I cannot even fathom. He is not a master of artful language person like politicians and news anchors. I think when he talks about elimination, I think we're talking about eliminating the waste, abuse and fraud. And it is true that the Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security make up about 75 percent of our budget. It's mandatory spending.

We've got to find the savings there. We will do that. The budget director was speaking to our whip team last night in a meeting.

[08:50:01]

And - and he pointed out, there are savings to be made in the Medicaid program.

Kate, did you know, and -

BOLDUAN: Look, I even had a Democratic governor on. I had the Democratic governor of Colorado on. He says there definitely are savings and efficiencies that can be found in entitlement programs, for sure. But on this, and I hear you that language matters, if Elon Musk wants to eliminate, entitlements, I mean, he has called Social Security the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time. So, there is something there. If he moves to eliminate any of the entitlement programs, will you stop him or will you applaud him?

ALFORD: We - we are not going to eliminate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. That's sheer nonsense. President Trump has said that from the very beginning, and he's the guy sitting behind the Resolute Desk. I applaud Elon Musk. I love that he's moving forward with helping us

rightsized our government and put America first. But elimination of programs is not going to happen. It is true that Medicaid has grown exponentially over the last couple of years. There could be as much as one quarter of the Medicaid payments that are not going to people who - who really qualify for them, that - that the people who are receiving those payments are not qualified. And that's one of the things we'll be looking at. Right now, if you get on Medicaid, you don't come up for review for your qualification for an entire year. If we cut that back to a review for every six months, we're going to save billions of dollars.

And it's not just people who are, I don't think, just cheating the system, it's that the government workers are not doing a good enough job of making sure people are qualified. And that's going to free up money for people who truly need it.

BOLDUAN: Oh - the - the line of what's waste, what's abuse, where efficiencies can be found is going to be very important for every member of Congress, because the number of constituents that it impacts and every governor -

ALFORD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Because I've already talked to governors who do not want to see some of the cuts that they fear could be coming to Medicaid, especially.

Congressman, thank you so much for coming on this morning. Let's see what happens today.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, Kate.

A seismic shift at Southwest. The airline is abandoning its bag fly free policy and its rapid rewards points, not so rapid now for certain flights. When you'll have to pay up.

Also, plus, it's touched everything from politics, to health, to life itself. Covid, five years later. Doctor Sanjay Gupta is joining us next to talk about the lasting impacts of the pandemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:57:02]

SIDNER: Exactly five years ago today, Covid-19 was declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization, bringing most of the world to a halt eventually.

CNN and our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, was calling the outbreak epidemic days before the World Health Organization made its statement.

Sanjay, you've had eyes on this the whole time. And I cannot believe that it has been five years, because, to me, it feels like it kind of just happened in some ways, and in other ways it's like decades ago.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I know time is very much warped I think for most people.

SIDNER: Yes.

GUPTA: That was one of the things that a lot of people experienced during the pandemic. And I think, you know, it's interesting, when you reflect five years from now, there are people who are still - still very traumatized by this. I think health care workers in particular, this is something that still comes up all the time when I'm in the hospital. And there's obviously a significant chunk of the population that has just moved on. And there's people sort of in between.

But the images, you know, from - from, you know, the last several years are something that people have had a hard time getting out of their heads. Paramedics rushing to homes to try and take care of people, you know, with masks on. Grandmothers and grandkids, you know, meeting for the first time after some time separated. People separating out, you know, the social distancing. All of that was - was real. And I think we still have sort of flickers of that, that we see in society.

SIDNER: A hundred percent.

GUPTA: But, you know, just to give you a little perspective in terms of where we are. If you look overall at the world in terms of how many people were infected, seven - close to 800 million people, that's - and that's people diagnosed cases.

SIDNER: Eight hundred million.

GUPTA: Eight hundred million. More than 100 million of those in the United States.

SIDNER: Wow.

GUPTA: So, you know, we're 4 percent of the world's population had about a seventh of the cases. If you look at deaths overall, about 7 million people died, which is hard to even say, 7 million people died around the world.

SIDNER: Yes, you can't - it's hard to think of how big that is.

GUPTA: Yes. And this was a new disease.

SIDNER: Yes.

GUPTA: A new virus. A medical establishment around the world trying to grapple with something that was brand new, that sort of came on the scene. Hadn't seen something like that in, you know, 100 years. So, in terms of deaths, again, 7 million around the world, 1.2 of those here in the United States. And I think those are going to be some of the - the things that we still have to sort of figure out, why was the United States so affected by this? Is it our overall level of health as a general rule? Is it our crumbling public health infrastructure? Even before this pandemic hit, these are things that we're still grappling with.

SIDNER: Yes, it's also - is it our tendency to do conspiracy theories and to - to rage against the machine. And did the machine work correctly?

GUPTA: Right. Right.

SIDNER: You know, the way in which this was sort of told to the public, was that the right way? And I know there's - everybody's grappling at the CDC, NIH, all of them.

We have been asking people about their own personal reflections on the pandemic. And I want to get to Priscilla, who wrote, "my mother died from Covid, and this is a year I can't get past. It seems I am still reliving it every day since then."

[09:00:00]

We also got a message from Cheri. "It was utter devastation. Within a month I lost two close coworkers to Covid. One beloved ER doctor took