Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Markets Open After Steel and Aluminum Tariffs; Markets Open After New Inflation Report; Michael Missal and Larry Turner are Interviewed about Administration Firings. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired March 12, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR PROFILER AND SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Is being done. I'm sure the FBI is encouraging it and offering to help. But again, the FBI is not in charge of this investigation.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Right. Involved but not in charge.

Just quickly, I wanted to ask you what you made of the timeline. There were about five hours in between the last time her friends sort of left her and the last time that the gentleman that was with her right there. 4:55 a.m. the group left, and then five hours later the young man left the beach alone. What kind of clues does that give you?

O'TOOLE: There's so much that could have happened during that period of time. And my sense is that timeline will change somewhat as they - hopefully they resolve what - what happened here. But there's so much that could have happened. There could have been other people on the beach that have yet to be identified, that could have more information. Or, worse yet, could have been involved in her disappearance. So, a timeline that is that broad does really create a lot of problems for law enforcement until they can really narrow that down with other evidence.

SIDNER: Yes. Yes. And some of that may be surveillance video. Maybe they will find more of that. I know her family is, right now, just in dire straits, hoping that she is found alive.

Mary Ellen O'Toole, thank you so much for your insight. Really appreciate it.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Europe is retaliating after President Trump's trade war goes global. New tariffs on steel and aluminum went into effect hours ago. And there is also now new polling numbers out on how Americans feel about the president's handling of the economy so far.

And as for Wall Street, the markets have made it pretty clear about how they feel. We are standing by for the opening bell this hour after another volatile trading day yesterday. Futures are pointing north, pointing up right now. We'll see if that remains. And this morning, the president's promised push to shut down the

Education Department is taking shape. The department just cut nearly half of its workforce. The education secretary calling this the first step.

John is out today. I'm Kate Bolduan, with Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SIDNER: Happening right now, we're standing by for the U.S. markets to open for the first time since President Trump took his trade war global. Overnight, new 25 percent tariffs on all steel and aluminum imports into the United States took effect instantly. Americans were set on a collision course for higher prices on a wide range of goods.

And almost just as instantly, Europe took sweeping retaliatory measures. The EU has now slapped $28 billion worth of tariffs on U.S. goods. All of this only fueling recession fears.

Alayna Treene is at the White House for us.

Alayna, economists are - they're more than alarmed this morning about what this might mean. But the president, how is he reacting, seeing what happened with the markets yesterday and hearing from some of the top economists to say, hey, if this keeps going, we could find ourselves in a recession.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Look, the president seems to be very dug in on tariffs. Not only are we hearing that in some of his public comments, but that's what I'm hearing as well privately in my conversations with White House officials and those close to him, advising him on some of this policy.

The president really believes that the United States is being taken advantage of, Sara. He believes that tariffs are a negotiating tactic and he acknowledges that, you know, obviously the stock market has been on a downward spiral for the last two days. He's erased - it's really erased all the gains we've seen since the president was elected in November. But he believes that if you stick with him, things will, you know, go better moving forward. And he even warned yesterday that tariffs could perhaps go even higher.

But I want you to listen to what he said about the stock market, as he's really been kind of continuing to brush off some of that sharply, you know, lower numbers that we've been seeing.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Markets are going to go up, and they're going to go down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: But, you know what, we have to rebuild our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Sara, there you have it, he said they're going to go up. They're going to go down. We have to rebuild our country. That is really, again, what I'm hearing behind closed doors, why the president is so dug in on this.

But one thing that's been really interesting, and what I'm picking up on, I know some other reports have said this as well, is not only with Wall Street, but also those on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in Congress. A lot of people raising the alarm, not only about, you know, Trump's tariff policy, a lot of that is controversial, but also questioning whether there is a bigger strategy here. What is the long- term goal on this, and how do they really see the market stabilizing in the long term?

Now, this was, of course, a question as well that many people, many of those business leaders that the president met with yesterday had questions of. This is what one of them told our CNN's Jeff Zeleny. They said, quote, "there was no new clarity or certainty on what that broader strategy is."

[09:05:04]

Now, we are going to hear from the president today. I'm wearing green. We're going to hear from, as well, when he meets with Ireland's taoiseach, essentially their prime minister. I think you can expect a lot of questions on this because, again, the markets are going down. People are seeing their 401ks on a downward spiral as well. A lot of concerns and a lot of questions and not a lot of clarity from this White House other than that they believe in tariffs and they plan to continue moving forward with them.

SIDNER: And, Alayna Treene, I thought you were wearing green for the color of money, but it turns out you are wearing it for the Irish. How lovely of you.

Thank you so much. Really appreciate your reporting there from the White House.

All right, right now we are standing by for the opening bell on Wall Street as new data showed inflation slowing a bit this month. That progress may be short lived, though, as the U.S. enters its next phase, which is a new trade war.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is joining me now.

All right, that does - that does not look so scary. The futures ticking up a bit.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, pop - the Dow popped on the news of inflation cooling.

SIDNER: Yes.

YURKEVICH: So, that's a very good sign for U.S. consumers. But in the backdrop, we do have a trade war that's heating up right now. And we have those 25 percent tariffs in place on aluminum and steel, on all imports coming into this country. And it is a wide swathe of countries that we get aluminum and steel from. Just take a look at that. That's just steel imports. South Korea, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Japan. And then aluminum, some of the same trading partners we get aluminum from as well.

And I spoke to a U.S. manufacturer who said that this is really a lose-lose situation because when you have imports going up in price, that actually makes the U.S. steel and aluminum market go up, too. And so there's really no affordable place to find steel and aluminum to make products like appliances, cars, medical devices. These are all things that consumers are used to getting every single day. Maybe not a car, every so often.

SIDNER: Yes.

YURKEVICH: But really impacts our lives.

We heard from President Trump on how he thought tariffs are impacting the economy right now. Take a listen to what he said just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had the greatest economy in history. This economy, in my opinion, is going to blow it away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, when you look at the market selling off, that didn't concern you?

TRUMP: Nope, doesn't concern me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where do you see it going?

TRUMP: I think some - some people are going to make great deals by buying stocks and bonds and all the things they're buying.

I think this country is going to boom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: And so the president clearly paying attention to the market, but also saying he's not paying attention to the market.

And as we noted just moments ago, futures were up on this news that inflation was cooling. But at the same time, investors are contending with the uncertainty of tariffs. We know so far the EU has responded with tariffs of their own on $28 billion worth of goods, including things like machinery and different items that we export every single day.

We are waiting to see what the rest of the world responds with. That will be critical in seeing just how much this will impact U.S. consumers and prices here at home.

SIDNER: And we should note that those February inflationary prices were before the tariffs went into effect, these 25 percent here.

YURKEVICH: It - yes, it accounted just the 10 percent that we put on China.

SIDNER: China.

YURKEVICH: But not all of the other tariffs that have come along since then, including today's tariffs on steel and aluminum.

SIDNER: All right, we will wait and see what happens in the market and on main street because that's where it hits the hardest.

All right, thank you so much, Vanessa Yurkevich.

And I'll just toss it over to Kate.

BOLDUAN: And joining us right now to talk more about this is CNN political commentator Karen Finney, and also here with me is Marc Short, a longtime adviser to Mike Pence. He's now the chairman of the board for Advancing American Freedom.

Thanks for being here, guys. It's good to have you here, Marc.

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, Donald Trump is saying, or appears to have a much higher tolerance for kind of market reaction to this trade war then I would say than anyone would think he had in his first term. Do you have as high a tolerance for market turmoil? Do you think other Republicans do?

SHORT: Well, I'm also not convinced he does, honestly, because I think he's very sensitive to what the market reaction is. And - but I think he's trying to put on a good face about where we're headed.

I do think that the tariffs have certainly had a dramatic impact. I think that initially after his election I think markets were excited because they anticipated policy similar to his first administration, deregulation, extension of tax cuts.

BOLDUAN: For sure.

SHORT: But I think they assumed that the tariffs were more of a negotiation tactic, like they were in the first administration. But he clearly has surrounded himself now with advisers who are very much disciples of the tariff policy. And that's where he looks to be - to be going.

I do think as well, though, you're probably going to see him begin to pivot and put more pressure on the Fed. I think even though he appointed Jerome Powell, he's never been a big fan of him. And I think that we see today's CPI number coming down. He's going to begin to pivot to say, it's time for the Fed to lower rates on.

BOLDUAN: On - on your point of who he's surrounded himself with on trade, the one thing that confuses me is, if they really believe in tariffs as policy -

SHORT: Yes.

[09:10:02]

BOLDUAN: What is - what gives with the pulling it back and putting it back on?

SHORT: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Like, if you believe it, keep it.

SHORT: Right.

BOLDUAN: That's the thing I don't get.

SHORT: That's a great question, Kate, because - because I think it's a sense - basically to your first question, it shows they are sensitive to market reaction, because if they really believe that they would continue forward with it. But, at the same time, there's more tariffs coming. I think the president has outlined what he expects on April 2nd, and we're sort of just at the tip of the iceberg now where there's going to be retaliatory tariffs, there's going to be copper tariffs. The steel and aluminum are just beginning. And so there's actually more he has planned for this economy.

BOLDUAN: Yes, but, wait, there's more -

SHORT: Yes.

BOLDUAN: In a way that you might not want.

Karen, Trump and his - and his allies, they - they continue to say that this is about the long game, that they're playing the long game here. I want to play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think this country's going to boom. But as I said, I can do it the easy way or the hard way. The hard way to do it is exactly what I'm doing, but the results are going to be 20 times greater.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you - does he have running room here to let this play out?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not much, if any. An Emerson College poll shows the president going under 50 percent. We'll see - I'm sure we'll see more polling in the coming days.

Look, this is not what people believed they were voting for. I mean, time and again we've heard from Republicans that it was about immigration and the border and about the economy. And it doesn't matter who you are, Republican or Democratic president, when inflation is high and costs are high, and it's - and people have been saying for some time - and this is one of the problems I think that President Biden had, people had been saying for two years they were not happy with the economy going into the election, and we saw the consequences.

And I think, in this instance, you know, on top of that, now people have - there's a lot of economic anxiety because of the volatility. And Republicans own this chaotic economy right now because, you know, there's - and it's not just one thing, right, it's the volatility in the markets. It's the cuts with DOGE and the uncertainty that's creating. And, by the way, we're talking about 80 percent of those jobs being outside of Washington, D.C.

I just came back from being out in Arizona, and people are really anxious about what's happening. So you've got that. And then this budget and this CR and what's going to happen and how will that impact costs and how will that impact the delivery of services to veterans and our schools and kids who are waiting to see if they got a Pell Grant to go to - to go to college? So, I think - I don't think he has a lot of running room.

BOLDUAN: I want to lean on your very astute, many years of expertise, of reading into polls and what should be read from them. CNN - we have the new CNN polling this morning, and there's a lot of interesting stuff in here. He - President Trump has a 45 percent approval rating, a 54 percent job disapproval. That matches, in terms of approval, that matches his highest rating of his first term. And he's getting big marks in areas like handling of immigration. Fifty-one percent approve of what he's doing, and that's seven points higher than any point in his first term.

And then, here's the but. Then you look at the issue that people care still most about, the economy. Fifty-six percent disapprove. Worse than any point in his first term.

If you were still sitting in the White House and you see this, what's - what's your take from the (INAUDIBLE)?

SHORT: I think there's several points to kind of break down. One is that the president's greatest foil has been the Democrats and their ineffectiveness to have a message. And again, when you see like the State of the Union speech and Al Green shaking and cane, looks like an angry old man, I think it gives the president much of an advantage. I think some of those numbers are reflective of the fact that he's a tremendous contrast to the Joe Biden presidency. They see an energetic president taking action.

I think they elected him on two principal issues, the border and the economy. So, the border, I think they like seeing it. I think when Democrats take positions in support of the Columbia University protester, I think it continues to elevate that issue, that helps Trump.

The economy is a big warning sign. I don't entirely agree with Karen. I think he has more running room because he still has such control over the party, and members are concerned about being primaried if Donald Trump goes against them. And that gives him a lot more latitude. But I do think it's a warning sign because that's what they elected

him on in large part, is border and the economy. And if they lose confidence in the way he's handling the economy, it's going to continue to drive his numbers down.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean, just look at the - take this polling and look at it through the lens of a Democrat, Karen.

FINNEY: Yes.

BOLDUAN: You see this and Democrats should take - take from - take what from it?

FINNEY: They should be on offense on the economy. There is no reason to be hemming and hawing, which we're seeing from some of my Democrats. They need to be on offense. They need to be talking about the fact that, again, this is - this chaos that were seeing is created by Republicans, created by Trump, created by Musk, or compounded by Musk, and that people are starting to say, hey, this is not what we thought we were getting with this second Trump term.

[09:15:10]

And they need to be bullish about it, and - and also to stand up to the Republicans and say, we will not accept this CR because it is - you're not being honest with the American people about what it really does. It actually would give more power and authority to Trump and Musk to do more damage, to create more chaos. Not to mention to say, because I'm here in D.C., the devastating impacts of a $1 billion cut here in Washington, where we already don't have enough police officers and firefighters.

So, I think there's no reason for them not to stand up today, the Senate, this is for you, Chuck Schumer, and be bullish about the fact that we have - this is - this economic chaos has to stop. And they've got to use the little bit of leverage that they have today to try to do something about it.

BOLDUAN: Marc Short's thought bubble right now on the CR is like my favorite thing right now. Who gets blamed? I'm sorry, Chris, my EP, just give me one second.

FINNEY: He's like, please, please. I know.

SHORT: Well, just, at this point if they take Karen's advice, the Democrats get blamed for a shutdown. They'll be the ones stopping it.

BOLDUAN: That's - we'll find out. We may find out soon enough, friends.

FINNEY: Yes, we're (INAUDIBLE) - Republicans control everything.

BOLDUAN: Karen, it's great to see you. Marc - I control this. That's the only thing I control.

Great to see you. SIDNER: Do we, though, Kate?

BOLDUAN: But do I really? I think that is the question, Sara.

SIDNER: That's a question that I -

BOLDUAN: That is the question.

SIDNER: I like it when things go off the rails, but that's just me.

All right, just ahead, within days of taking office, President Trump fired multiple government watchdog groups tasked with exposing corruption. This morning, two of them are talking about DOGE and the impact crushing watchdog agencies is having.

And a legal showdown in court today over the ICE arrest of a Columbia University pro-Palestinian student activist. Questions and protests over the Trump administration's treatment of the now graduate, as lawyers refused to bring the green card holder back to New York without a court order.

And after spending ten long months stuck in space, the long-awaited homecoming for astronaut Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore could happen real soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:21:34]

BOLDUAN: The Department of Education this morning on the chopping block. The department announcing that it is slashing nearly half of the workforce of more than 4,000 people. The offices in Washington are closed right now until Thursday at least as President Trump is seeking to shut the department down permanently. Something he promised on the campaign trail.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is following all of this, and there is a lot of people - a lot of people getting notices that they are now going to be out of a job very soon.

Sunlen, what's the latest here?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kate, certainly a significant impact to the Department of Education that's happened this week, starting with last night where you have the notification of nearly half of the workforce, nearly 50 - 50 percent, that's 1,300 employees at the Department of Education who were notified overnight and into today that they are out of a job.

These cuts were potentially expected. Many within the agency certainly aware of President Trump's directive to dismantle the Department of Education. But certainly these cuts are significant.

And notably, the secretary of education, last night, she was asked if these cuts were just a first step in the larger goal of dismantling the department. And here's what she had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this the first step on the road to a total shutdown?

LINDA MCMAHON, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: Yes, actually it is, because that was the president's mandate, his directive to me, clearly is to shut down the Department of Education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now, President Trump has been very clear, his goal is, again, to dismantle the department. The question is, how is he going to go about doing this?

Now, CNN reported last week this draft executive order that had been written up, that directed the agency to start the process to eliminate the department. The question is how they go about doing that without approval to Congress. As of now, Kate, that executive order has not moved forward.

But certainly this threat is still looming. The question is, will they go ahead and - and take out individual parts of the agency, break it up? That all a big question this morning. But certainly significant that at the very least you have half of this agency who are out of their jobs this morning.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: How are the employees, how are the unions representing the employees, how are they all reacting to this?

SERFATY: Yes, certainly not well. Unions were bracing for this and anticipated this.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

SERFATY: But they weren't prepared for, I think, the extent of how big the job reductions would be. You have many of the top unions out with statements expressing concern, not only for the workforce, but the impact, certainly, on students, the impact on specific offices. You have the civil rights investigation, the Office of Civil Rights. That was particularly gutted at the Department of Education. Importantly, does many important investigations. So certainly a huge impact, and they have reason to be concerned.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you so much, covering this one for us.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, the Department of Education, as you just heard, just the latest department hit by the federal purge. One of the earliest cuts came in the form of inspectors general, some of whom are now suing the administration to get their jobs back.

[09:25:03]

With me now is former Veterans Affairs inspector general, Michael Missal. And in a moment, if our technical bugs can be worked out, we will be joined by former labor inspector general, Larry Turner.

All right, first to you, Michael. What - why do you think you were fired, and some of your colleagues?

MICHAEL MISSAL, FORMER VETERANS AFFAIRS INSPECTOR GENERAL: It's really hard to say. Under the law, the president can fire inspectors general, but they must do at least two things. One, give 30 days' notice, and, two, give detailed case specific reasons. We weren't given either. Congress wasn't given the 30 days' notice, which they need to have a discussion with the president about whether it makes sense to do it. And secondly, the detailed case specific reasons weren't given. All we were told was changing priority. So, it's really unclear other than perhaps to chill truly independent nonpartizan oversight is what we've done for almost 50 years.

SIDNER: I mean, how much money did you save the American public in the job that you had.

MISSAL: In the almost nine years I was the inspector general for the Department of Veterans Affairs, I saved American taxpayers about $45 billion. But that's just one part of the job that I do. The other part is to make sure that the benefits and services that VA provides to veterans are being done appropriately and as designed. So, I spent a lot of my time making sure that veterans got the benefits, the disability compensation, other benefits, and the health care services that they required.

SIDNER: Well, I want to ask you -

MISSAL: I think we made a great impact on improving the health care services for veterans.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about what DOGE is saying. On its website it says it saved U.S. taxpayers $105 billion as of today. Its calculations, however, have been riddled with errors and there have been numerous corrections there. But this is how they spell it out to - on their website. And DOGE has repeatedly deleted some of its biggest claims of savings.

What do you make of the DOGE website that promises transparency while continuing to make changes in what it says it's doing?

MISSAL: Well, that's the key word is transparency. I don't see any transparency. They put numbers out there. What inspectors general do is when we would find fraud, waste, abuse, we would put out reports that the public sees. We explain our methodology, why we - we found what we did and root causes of issues. We also made recommendations how to - on how to improve. I don't see that with DOGE, so it's really hard to know exactly what they're doing other than firing a lot of people. SIDNER: We now have former labor inspector general Larry Turner with

us.

Larry, let me ask you about how you think DOGE is doing. Do you think that DOGE has the best interests of Americans at heart?

LARRY TURNER, FORMER LABOR DEPARTMENT INSPECTOR GENERAL: Well, you know, actually, it's hard for me to believe that they do because when we go through our audit process, it takes anywhere from nine to 12 months to complete an audit.

Also, it takes about six to eight weeks for our staff to get up to speed. And these are folks that do this for a living. And even with that we have some staff members that specialize in certain programs. So, I find it hard to believe that a 19-year-old could, in a matter of four or five days, come and pick this program up and be effective.

SIDNER: Why do you think the inspectors general were some of the first to just simply, outright, with no real deep explanation, be fired?

TURNER: I actually believe that it was a power purge. I mean, when you think about it, we already have the infrastructure in place to do fraud, waste and abuse. So, I am somewhat surprised that - that they didn't reach out to us first because I thought we could have been a great aid.

The other part of that too is, to become a good auditor it takes time. I mean, you know, most of our auditors have audit - have accounting degrees. And so to think that you would have a 19-year-old come in and be able to perform those kind of services, I just find unbelievable.

SIDNER: Michael, I want to ask you, if - if there is any agency in place, with the inspectors general mostly gone, that can oversee DOGE to make sure it's doing its job efficiently?

MISSAL: Well, that's where Congress comes in. We worked very closely with Congress. It was one of the important checks and balances of our country, to make sure that our government was working effectively. And when we were all fired, there was really silence from leadership in Congress. And even though we provided them great assistance in doing their oversight work of the executive branch, they were silent when we were all fired.

[09:30:01]

And if they continue to be silent as DOGE is doing whatever they're doing in terms of firing people and cutting down the government,