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Skye Perryman is Interviewed about DOGE Lawsuit; DOGE Deadline for Federal Agencies; Blackrock CEO Comments on Economy; California Bracing for Storms. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired March 13, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:18]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, federal workers are fighting back against Elon Musk and DOGE. Their unions filing a lawsuit seeking an emergency order to stop DOGE from getting its hands on sensitive Social Security data for millions of Americans.

And with that it is also giving us the first in-depth insider account from a high-ranking government official on how DOGE is operating within these agencies. Tiffany Flick was, until February, the acting chief of staff at the Social Security Administration. She was forced out last month. And her account is part of this federal lawsuit filed last week to try and stop DOGE.

In the lawsuit, in her declaration, she says this in part, "I've witnessed a disregard for critical processes that could result in benefits not being paid out or delays in payments." She also adds that the stakes are high and from - in saying, from what she has seen, "I am confident," she says, "that DOGE associate - "I am not confident that DOGE associates have the requisite knowledge and training to prevent sensitive information from being inadvertently transferred to bad actors."

Joining us right now is Skye Perryman. She's one of the attorneys with Democracy Forward, the group representing a coalition of unions and retirees, including Tiffany Flick, in this lawsuit.

It's - thank you so much for coming in, Skye.

Why was this case, this lawsuit, important to take on?

SKYE PERRYMAN, CEO OF LEGAL GROUP ORGANIZING LAWSUIT AGAINST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: This is one of the most important lawsuits I think we've seen since the Trump administration took office because Social Security information, this is not academic or hypothetical, right? I mean this is information about every individual in the United States that has a Social Security Number. It is information that people use in order to have their benefits and their retirement. It is also information that's used for a variety of other purposes in our ordinary lives.

And this has never happened before where we've had the federal government have, you know, lawless inside - you know, lawless outsiders come into the agency, really ignoring any type of data protocols, unvetted individuals that are seeking access to the information on individual Americans. So, this is a five-alarm fire, and that is why we are in court.

BOLDUAN: With this account from Ms. Flick, as I mentioned, it's really the first kind of in-depth public account from a high-ranking government official on what they've seen when DOGE has come in. What does she want to see come from this?

PERRYMAN: Well, you know, I mean, we all want to see that the court does what it's supposed to do, which is to apply the law and to protect the American people. And we're going to work every day for that.

But I do think that it is significant that what we have here is someone who has dedicated, you know, their career into public service that is speaking out and saying, this is not normal. This has actually never happened before. This - this breaks protocol. This should make Americans upset and scared. I mean if it sounds bad, that's because it is. And that is what we're hoping the court will stop with this action.

BOLDUAN: You know, to be clear, what Donald Trump has made clear just as recently as his speech before Congress, and we've also heard Elon Musk say quite a lot about the Social Security Administration, is what they want to do is, they say, they want to go in and look for waste, fraud and abuse, albeit as fact checked, overstated somewhat in what they have found.

But to be clear, the Social Security Administration does make some improper payments. An inspector general's report found from 2015 to 2022 they made 70 - more than $71 billion in improper payments, and the agency, though, issues, you know, $1 trillion in benefits every year.

[09:35:04]

So, you know, its' not wide - they did not find widespread improper payments is my point, though they do see it.

So, if they're going in - is there a way that you've talked about with your clients that they think that they could work with the DOGE team, work with - towards this goal and find a common goal of trying to root out waste and fraud within any of the agencies?

PERRYMAN: You know, I'm really glad that you cited the inspector general's report, because inspector generals in our country are people with large staffs, that their job is to be the watchdog of the government, to make sure that there isn't waste, fraud and abuse. And this is a president that, of course, has fired multiple inspector generals. DOGE has no interest in working within the processes that we have in this country that does report out when there are mistakes at the government, if there is waste, fraud and abuse. Everyone wants our government to operate effectively and to protect the American people. But what we're seeing here is a real gaslighting of the American

people, because you can't fire inspector generals, break process that's going to harm our privacy, the ability to get our benefits, and then say you're doing it for the good of the American people when we see nothing from this administration or from Elon Musk or from the DOGE, you know, individuals who were just responding to, we understand, messages on Twitter to get their jobs that they're really serious about having the government work for people or having the government protect people. It seems that they're serious just about breaking things that are really to the detriment of the American people.

BOLDUAN: Skye Perryman, thank you so much for coming on. There are a lot of moving parts and a lot of lawsuits being filed, and we're going to stick close to see how they proceed. This one filed just last week.

I appreciate your time.

Coming up for us, the search for a missing American student intensifying now in the Dominican Republic. We're learning new details about who else she may have come in contact with on that beach the moments before she disappeared.

And for the first time in more than two years, a total lunar eclipse will be visible in the United States. Where you can get the best look at the blood moon.

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[09:41:42]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening right now in Washington, it is deadline day. President Trump has ordered federal agencies to draw up details of their plans for a new wave of layoffs. And they must hand those into Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency no later than today. More than 100,000 federal employees have been terminated so far, and many of them are now struggling to secure unemployment benefits.

CNN's Rene Marsh is joining us now from Washington.

And to remind people, these are people from all over the United States. A huge number of federal workers do not work in Washington but outside of the Capitol. What can you tell us about the trouble that they're now having and why getting unemployment benefits?

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, Sara, I mean, let's start with the deadline that's happening today. And just, you know, the state of mind of the federal workforce, which is more than 2 million people here. There has just been this drip, drip, drip of terminations and federal workers placed on paid leave. We've seen terminations. And all of that has really been anxiety inducing to say the least. And it's all been building to this point where we're at today.

One federal worker told me last night he - he had been with his agency for more than 30 years. He missed the day of work yesterday because he was literally sick to his stomach. And that is because this next phase of the Trump administration shrinking of the federal government promises to be even more dramatic. The plans that these agencies are submitting today will include more mass terminations, but it's also going to include totally eliminating certain offices and divisions. And the decision on what cuts should be made is happening even as some of these agencies like the NIH do not yet even have its director in place. The Senate has yet to confirm the NIH director.

So, I am told, at the agency level, DOGE has been involved in the decision making on staff cuts. OPM and OMB will approve these plans. And as we know, OPM is effectively DOGE. Again, this speaks to the incredible influence of Elon Musk. And you asked about, you know, people getting their unemployment benefits. Even people who have already been terminated from the federal government because this has happened in such a chaotic and fast paced way, many of them didn't even get to download the required documents that they would need to officially file. So, it's the anxiety, the buildup, the actual moment of being let go, and then not having the paperwork to get the benefits after they've lost their jobs.

Sara.

SIDNER: Huge amounts of anxiety around the country with so many federal workers wondering if they're going to be next.

Rene Marsh, thank you so much for all of your reporting on this. It's been really great.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, you can call this one, alarm bells are going off. The head of the world's largest asset manager, a company known around the world, says President Trump's moves to reshape the federal government and sweeping tariff strategy are paralyzing American consumers and businesses. And he says it is already hurting the economy.

CNN's Kayla Tausche has this new reporting in her exclusive sit down with BlackRock CEO Larry Fink.

Really important to be hearing from him and important that he is speaking out publicly, I think, is part of it, Kayla. What else did he tell you?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, when Larry Fink speaks, and world leaders and global markets always listen in.

[09:45:00]

In our conversation, he acknowledged the Trump administration's policies are collectively weakening American consumers and companies and could mean that inflation gets worse. And the stock market keeps going down for several more months due to all of this uncertainty. So, I pressed him on how much the economy could withstand, and he said a recession, even a short one, is quite possible.

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LARRY FINK, CEO, BLACKROCK: It depends on the duration of a recession. Could we have a one quarter or two quarters of market - of a flattening of our economy as we try to reset the economy? Absolutely. Could we see elevated inflation in the next two quarters? Yes. But I'm looking beyond that.

If we are able to unlock private capital, as I wrote about it in an editorial, if we could, you know, reinvest back in America, we could build more factories and plants in America, that will restart and rekindle the next wave of - of a - of a bull market. So, yes, I feel that uncertainty. I know that there are moments when I'm uncertain, but I look at this as an opportunity.

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TAUSCHE: One such opportunity, Fink says, was catalyzed by recent political chaos is BlackRock's purchase of 43 ports from a Chinese company that included the two ports at the Panama Canal that sparked Trump's ire. Fink said, BlackRock had been working on that larger deal for about two years, but the Trump's Panama complaints may have expedited the talks. And Trump was pleased, he said, when he called to inform him of the sale.

But, Kate, Even amid all of this uncertainty, Fink's bottom line is he is optimistic and bullish about investing in America's future, even if there is quite a bumpy road ahead.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it seems a big delta between near-term and - and long - longer term optimism on this.

TAUSCHE: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, Kayla. Thank you very much for your reporting. Great interview.

TAUSCHE: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: So, this week's new episode of "United States of Scandal with Jake Tapper," follows the collapse of Enron. Here's a preview.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: What was he doing that was so alarming and such a no no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In effect, if I just bought a company for $10 million from you, and one month later I'm saying, ah, it's really worth 15, we're going to write it up to $15 and put $5 million on the income statement. That 5 million is just bogus. You just made it up.

TAPPER: And that's what Jeff Skilling did?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That - that's what they did, yes. TAPPER: They would just assess what they thought it was worth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TAPPER: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But just a month ago we had just bought the asset.

TAPPER: There actually is a hard number.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a hard number.

TAPPER: But they would not do that. They'd say, well, we think we can get five times this on the market.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TAPPER: And so we're going to say this is worth $50 million.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes. It was all legal, but you just can't write things up like that. I mean that was the beginning of - of the seeds of the - of the fraud that killed Enron.

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BOLDUAN: You can tune in to this new episode of "United States of Scandal with Jake Tapper," Sunday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.

We also have this just in to CNN. The White House is withdrawing the nomination of Dave Weldon to be the next director of the CDC. This happened just minutes before his confirmation hearing was set to begin this morning. We'll have more details on that coming in.

And also, close call caught on video. A snowboarder outrunning an avalanche.

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[09:52:48]

BOLDUAN: Wild video out of New Hampshire to show you. A snowboarder narrowly escaping an avalanche on Mount Washington's Tucker Ravine, literally outrunning it, thank goodness. They managed to race ahead by just seconds and escape any injury. The video was taken on cameras at the Mount Washington Observatory. Quite a story to tell. That is remarkable, and terrifying, and remarkable.

Also, right now, the West Coast is facing a whole mix of severe conditions today. Millions of people now bracing for heavy rain, mountain snow and 50 mile per hour winds.

CNN's Allison Chinchar is tracking this one for us and joins us now.

And this storm, it's not going to quit - it's not going to quit out west. It's going to continue on, yes?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Right, this is actually going to end up impacting a lot of people across the U.S. over the next several days.

So, here is a look at Friday. You can see the severe storm threat and then the fire risk that's out behind it on the western side.

Now, this is call starting in California. Right now you've got rain pretty much up and down the West Coast. But that system is going to traverse across the U.S. over the next several days, taking with it the potential for those strong thunderstorms, some snow, and, yes, even the potential for fire danger. And the fire danger is because of these winds. Look at this, 60 to 65 mile per hour gusts. So, you have the fire threat not only for today, but it actually increases a bit as we head into the day Friday.

And then the severe threat, a little bit slower on day Friday and Saturday. But you can see here, you've got a lot of areas that are under the potential here, not just for tornadoes, but also long - long duration damaging winds and also the potential for some hail that could be tennis balls or even higher. This includes places like Saint Louis, Memphis and Chicago on Friday. And then for Saturday, essentially from Cleveland all the way back down to New Orleans.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And also then there's a fun first in like the last - first time in a couple years, right? There's a total lunar eclipse blood moon that is going to be visible. What are we - what are we going to be able to see, and where are we going to be able to see it best?

CHINCHAR: Yes, so this is an interesting thing. We talk about solar eclipses a lot. But this is actually going to be a lunar eclipse. And basically what's happening is, you can see the moon kind of slides right behind earth, right in that perfect area behind it, lining everything up.

Now, the best time to view this is really going to be overnight tonight. You're talking 1:00 to basically about 4:00 to 5:00 in the morning Eastern Time equivalents through there.

[09:55:05]

The question becomes, though, who's actually going to see it because that storm system we just talked about that's making its way from the west eastward is going to bring a lot of cloud cover. So, when you look at this map, there are a few spots. Saint Louis definitely on the front end of things going to be a little clearer rather than the back end, but also places like Kansas City, down through Lubbock and definitely even Miami looks like they will have a pretty good chance of seeing that tonight.

SIDNER: When you said who's going to see it, I thought you meant time. I was like, we're - we're up. We'll - we'll be seeing it. BOLDUAN: Yes, 1:00 to 4:00 prime time for us.

SIDNER: No problem.

BOLDUAN: So, we're all over it.

SIDNER: So cool. I already saw it's already sort of that orangy color, because I was like, what happened to the moon?

BOLDUAN: When?

SIDNER: Yesterday.

BOLDUAN: Oh, really.

SIDNER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Huh.

SIDNER: I was like, huh, I could see it through all the lights of New York.

BOLDUAN: I always think it's like, oh, my contacts. I need to - Allison, sorry, you don't have to - you don't have to hear this banter.

Thank you, Allison.

SIDNER: Thank you so much for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "THE SITUATION ROOM" up next.

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