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Deadline Arrives For Agencies to Submit Plans For Mass Layoffs; Kremlin Casts Doubt on Trump Cease-Fire Plan. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 13, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:51]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Right now, President Donald Trump is meeting with NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte at the White House. This is a face-to-face that, of course, is coming at a critical moment, as the Kremlin is increasingly casting doubt on the U.S.- backed cease-fire plan for Ukraine.

President Trump's special envoy arriving in Moscow for cease-fire talks earlier today.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: President Trump is also raising doubts, continuing to raise doubts, over defending NATO allies who he claims are not doing enough to bolster their defense spending.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live for us at the White House.

Jeff, what are you hearing about this meeting so far? It sounds like reporters are still in the Oval Office asking questions.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Boris, they are.

The meeting has been going on for, oh, about 20 minutes or so, and this is the president meeting with the secretary-general, as you said, of NATO. And this is a very important meeting on several levels, one, just the president's posture toward the NATO members about how he has routinely criticized European countries for not spending enough of their defense budget, if you will, on NATO defense.

But this, of course, is coming much sharper view because of the pending Ukraine cease-fire. That is one line of questioning that is under way right now, even as the president is talking about a variety of other things, including his ongoing tariff war with Canada, as well as other European nations.

But he is also saying specifically on the cease-fire, he said he is still open to talking soon with Vladimir Putin, but Putin, of course, he says he supports the cease-fire overall, potentially, but offering many reservations about that.

So as this question goes on, as this meeting goes on, we will bring more to you. But the timing of this certainly is very important. We're also told the president has answered some questions on the domestic front as well, and warning that he would blame any Democrats in the Senate for any government shutdown should that happen after the funding deadline tomorrow.

SANCHEZ: Jeff Zeleny, a lot to keep track of right now. Thanks so much for the update.

President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, has now arrived in Moscow to brief Kremlin officials on the Ukraine cease-fire proposal. Earlier today, though, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he has -- quote -- "reservations" about the 30-day cease-fire, adding that there are still many things that need to be discussed before a deal gets done.

KEILAR: CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is live in Kyiv.

Clarissa, taking a look at the reaction from Russia, which is so essential, right, you heard a White House official saying, if Russia does not accept this, then they will know who the impediment to peace is, how are you reading what we're hearing out of the Kremlin?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's a somewhat enigmatic response, but roughly along the lines of what we expected, in the sense that President Putin was very keen to heap praise upon President Trump. He called the idea in principle great. He expressed gratitude.

But then he went on to basically delineate a number of issues that Russia would want clarification on. Whether this is a stalling tactic designed to give Russia more time or whether this is an act of sincerely engaging in this process in a meaningful way remains to be seen.

One of the issues that he brought up was the issue of Kursk, where Russian forces have essentially now isolated the Ukrainian forces and a withdrawal of Ukrainian forces. Looks like it's already under way, but certainly we're talking days, not weeks, before Kursk will likely fall back under complete Russian control.

He also raised the issue of, will it be possible for Ukraine during these 30 days to remobilize? Will it be possible for them to regroup, reconstitute, rearm? What kind of guarantees could we be given that that wouldn't happen? What kind of guarantees can we be given in terms of how the cease-fire will be monitored or how it will be enforced?

[13:05:02]

And who gets to say when hostilities actually stop? So, some will interpret this as sort of willful filibustering, if you will. And, certainly when we heard from the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, this morning -- this was before Putin spoke, I should add -- he said, look, it's pretty much clear from the silence that we're hearing from Russia that they're not interested in meaningfully engaging with peace, that they want this war to continue grinding on.

I don't think that we can make that conclusion deductively from what President Putin said during his meeting, during his press conference with the Belarusian president, Lukashenko. But it will be very interesting, I would say, Brianna and Brianna, to hear later on after all those meetings and conversations with Trump's envoy, Witkoff, come to an end whether there is a sort of plan of action for moving forward.

Because, again, Putin had left that pretty ambiguous. He said maybe he would talk to President Trump in the coming days, none of that giving any sense of urgency that this is an issue that is going to be addressed and clarified and put into practice in the near future, as the U.S. had hoped.

SANCHEZ: Clarissa Ward, please stay with us.

We want to expand the conversation now with our panel. Mark Preston, Kim Dozier, David Sanger.

I do want to let our viewers know we are monitoring a situation in New York City. Protesters have stormed an area of Trump Tower, apparently protesting the detainment of Mahmoud Khalil, this Columbia University Palestinian graduate student who organized protests, anti-Israel protests on campus.

We're going to keep tracking the situation and bring you the latest as we get it.

But back to the details about this meeting that's happening at the White House, David, I wonder what you make of the timing here, that the NATO secretary-general meeting with Donald Trump, we're set to hear from them directly in just moments, as we're hearing Vladimir Putin say sort of yes to this deal, but also no.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So the timing of Secretary-General Rutte showing up, it's a little bit coincidental.

I don't think anybody knew when they scheduled that this would also be the day that you would be sending Steve Witkoff into Moscow and so forth. I think yes but is exactly the right answer, and Clarissa had this just right.

Putin's in a tough spot here. He can't be seen as the one party who's saying, I won't do a cease-fire. And yet a cease-fire is not in his interest right now while they're taking back Russian territory that the Ukrainians have seized and while he thinks he's on the march.

The second problem he's got is that he's concerned that the cease-fire will be something he can't get out of and what he really wants is, if there is a long-term cease-fire, to have a number of different issues, that Ukraine can't enter NATO, that along the way Russia will be able to resolve what they call their long historic issues, which is essentially that Ukraine is a part of Russia.

So he's a little afraid of being jammed, and I think you're seeing him wiggle his way through.

KEILAR: Yes, and I wonder what you think about what you're hearing of that, especially considering this idea, the Kursk piece of this, where he says it's not clear how the situation would develop in Kursk and elsewhere if a cease-fire was implemented, that development in Kursk of Russia taking back that territory is something that happened since the U.S. suspended -- it's now been reinstated -- but suspended military aid to the Ukrainians.

So, in a way, there's almost this cycle. The U.S. takes an action, we see Russia taking back Kursk, and now that seems to be dissuading them in at least one of these elements from wanting to get on board.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, they haven't completely taken Kursk back, but they have almost got all the territory back.

KEILAR: That's right. They're saying it's the vast majority of it, right?

DOZIER: Yes.

But what I'm watching for is, how will Trump react to not the no, but the explanations beyond, where Trump said he accepts the concept of a cease-fire, but was translated from the Russian as with nuances? And then his spokesperson and others have filled in some of those nuances that they need to see a new administration in Ukraine.

They need to see the world community recognize their annexation of four sections of Eastern Ukraine that they don't completely even control right now, that -- the list goes on and on. So my question will be how, is Trump going to respond to that?

Will he be convinced by Putin's arguments, as he has in the past? And I suspect Putin doesn't want to have those full-throated arguments until he's face-to-face with Trump so he can explain in a reasonable manner, you can't expect us to do a cease-fire and still have a standing Ukrainian army that could attack Kursk at any time.

[13:10:09]

It does lend itself to Trump's sort of political history. The rare vision that he's held politically, his entire political life, is that other countries are ripping off the United States.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

SANCHEZ: He points to NATO and says that. He points to Canada and says that, European allies as well. How does that play politically now that he's actually pursuing that as a policy?

PRESTON: Well, what's interesting is that in theory, you would think the United States public appreciates NATO, right? They understand that NATO protects us.

However, reality is, is that these folks are also hurting at home. They're also seeing their friends being rounded up, who have lived in their neighborhoods for many, many years. They're seeing a chaotic country right now. They're seeing the federal government being cut, people losing jobs. Then they look over at NATO and say, why isn't NATO paying their 2

percent of GDP? Why are we doing that? Look at my family right now that is hurting. So politically, it plays well for Donald Trump. The reality is, way down the road, and you talk to Kim or David and they will tell you, if we don't have the United States and NATO together, that we are in big trouble.

KEILAR: And, Clarissa, I wonder, especially as we hear Putin saying that they have to look at the root causes of the crisis, which, of course, we have heard before, one of those being the current Ukrainian government, we should say, that is something that he's looking at as the root cause of the crisis. He wants Zelenskyy to go.

How will it be received in Ukraine if what we hear from Trump is a, oh, but, look, Russia didn't say no?

WARD: I think that it is no exaggeration to say that the Ukrainians have been through an emotional roller coaster over the past few weeks with everything that happened between Zelenskyy and Trump in the Oval Office.

I think that there was a huge amount of relief and even triumph, honestly, coming out of those meetings in Jeddah that it seemed like the relationship was back on track, that it seemed like Ukraine could take control of the narrative again and essentially say, listen, we are not the obstacle to peace here. We are ready for it. The onus is now on Russia.

And I think there will be some serious disappointment and even some eye-rolling if President Trump takes Putin completely at his word and doesn't apply some rigorous skepticism to what is going on here. And I think also, frankly, if we're being honest, the Ukrainians would like to see a wedge driven between this sort of kinship that we have seen between President Putin and President Trump.

They would like to see President Trump get exasperated with President Putin and lose his patience even with President Putin. And it remains to be seen what the response will be. I mean, I just heard some tidbits from earlier where it said that President Trump had interpreted Putin's comments as being promising.

So, unlikely that we're necessarily going to see that wedge any time soon. But the Ukrainians understand in principle that the most important thing here going forward through trials and tribulations is to keep that relationship on track. I spoke to one former minister. He said, we need this relationship to be less about emotion and more about common sense.

SANCHEZ: Everyone, please stay with us. We're going to come back to you once we get word that the press availability inside the Oval Office has ended and we get playback of that press availability.

We are following breaking news out of Trump Tower in New York. There is a protest there under way. This is video from inside Trump Tower showing a Jewish Voice for Peace-organized demonstration, protesters filling the lobby of the building, denouncing the arrest of Mahmoud Khalil.

KEILAR: Protesters can be seen wearing red shirts reading "Jews Say Stop Arming Israel" and banners demanding the release of Khalil. He is that Palestinian activist who is detained by ICE over Columbia University protests.

Khalil was arrested over the weekend by federal agents after his lawyer said his green card was revoked by the Trump administration.

And today is the deadline set by DOGE for federal agencies to send in their plans for mass layoffs. Will it be an Elon Musk chain saw or will it be a scalpel? What we know just ahead.

Also, the tit for tat tariff war escalating, President Trump threatening to retaliate against Europe's retaliation by adding a 200 percent tariff on alcohol.

SANCHEZ: And, later, hitting the snooze button again, NASA delaying its launch of the capsule that's supposed to bring back stranded astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams. We will explain why they will have to wait a bit longer in space before coming home.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in moments.

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[13:19:21]

KEILAR: We are following breaking news out of New York. This is Trump Tower. You are looking at live pictures there of police mobilized in front of it, where there is a protest under way.

Video from inside Trump Tower shows a Jewish Voice for Peace-organized demonstration. protesters filling the lobby there of the building to denounce the arrest of Mahmoud Khalil.

SANCHEZ: And you may be able to tell from the video protesters are wearing red shirts reading "Jews Say Stop Arming Israel" and banners that they're holding up demanding the release of Khalil. He's, of course, the Palestinian graduate, the activist detained by ICE over Columbia University protests.

[13:20:01]

KEILAR: And -- that's right.

SANCHEZ: I believe we have Ed Davis with us, a former Boston police commissioner.

And, Ed -- actually, we do not have Ed. We're working on getting Ed so that we get some perspective on the effort to arrest these folks that we understand is currently under way. These are live images just outside of Trump Tower, what appears to be an NYPD bus and a number of officers outside loading protesters into the bus.

Of course, we're going to keep an eye on this situation and hopefully get Ed Davis soon to chat with him about this.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly.

Today is the deadline for federal agencies to turn in their plans for a new round of mass layoffs, really big ones expected here. Elon Musk and his government efficiency team have already fired more than 100,000 federal workers, and many of those people fear they may not qualify for unemployment benefits.

Right now, agencies are in the middle of a huge reorganization as the Trump administration guts the federal work force. The VA just closed an office that helps minority veterans. The USDA, the Department of Agriculture, is cutting off programs that paid for school lunches and for food banks.

And Social Security is cutting back on some phone services.

CNN's Rene Marsh is live for us now on this. OK, let's talk about this deadline today, what agencies are doing to comply, and then what's going to be done with that information.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.

So, I mean, as you said, more than 100,000 people have already been terminated at this point and that sort of drip, drip, drip has been leading to the point that we're at right now, which is this reduction in force plan that all of these agencies have to hand in. What is their plan to dramatically scale down their work force?

But it's not just these terminations that we're expecting. We're expecting that these plans that these agencies hand in today will include eliminating entire offices and divisions. And, keep in mind, some of these decisions are happening all while agencies like NIH, for example, still doesn't have its director physically in the building, in office, because has not been confirmed just as yet.

And then, on the agency level, we do know that DOGE has been very involved in having a say in what these cuts will look like. And once these agencies have their plan in place, they will hand that to the Office of Personnel Management, which we know is operated by a lot of people in Elon Musk's orbit, as well as DOGE.

So it just really speaks to, we're talking about the work force, but this is the influence again today of Elon Musk and all of his deputies as it relates to DOGE. And Elon Musk has said about many of these agencies he wants to see them -- quote -- "deleted."

So, on the human side of this, guys, I have been speaking to a lot of these federal workers, and their stomachs are literally in knots, because it's just been the anxiety of the drip, drip, drip, leading to this big moment. You don't know if your name is going to be called, and just life. You have to continue to pay.

And so that is the mood right now across these government agencies.

SANCHEZ: It's got to be grueling for them, especially as you have these court cases, just today a judge ordering that the Trump administration has to reinstate a ton of folks. That is still in legal limbo, yet to be determined what's going to happen there.

But we learned today that DOGE is now going to target the IRS. What have you heard about those plans?

MARSH: So while we don't know what all of these other agency plans are going to look like as far as specifics and the numbers and how deep these cuts will be, we do have new reporting today on what it will potentially look like at the IRS.

And DOGE, again, a part of this proposal to, when all is said and done in this first phase of this reduction in force, would propose to cut some 20 percent of the work force there by May 15. What would that include? That would include a fresh amount of layoffs, about 6,800 employees at the IRS. That would be on top of the nearly, what is it, over 6,000 probationary employees who've already been fired and the more than 4,000 who took that voluntary buyout.

So, at the end of its all, again, a reduction in roughly 20 percent. This is while this agency is in the midst of tax filing season. And at May 15, they're still doing their work. They're still processing returns. As one career official said to me, it is hard to cut this much and not have an impact at this agency. We will have a shortage in revenue.

And, keep in mind, the IRS is the agency that funds the vast majority of government operations. So this is a big blow to what is effectively the federal government's account receivable.

SANCHEZ: Rene Marsh, thank you so much for the update on that.

Want to let our viewers know we are monitoring these protests, the breaking news. This is happening just outside Trump Tower in New York City, a number of protesters arrested in the lobby, roughly 100 or so. They are demanding the release of detained student activist Mahmoud Khalil. We're going to keep monitoring that situation.

[13:25:07]

We should also let you know we just received a note from the White House pool that the meeting between President Trump and the NATO secretary-general has just wrapped, Trump answering a number of questions, not only on NATO and Ukraine, but also on domestic policy and the stock market as well.

We will bring it all to you in just a few minutes.

Stay with CNN.

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SANCHEZ: We are following breaking news out of Trump Tower in New York City. That's where a protest is under way.