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White House Briefing As Trump Admin Denies Defying Judge's Order To Stop Deportations; Dow Edges Higher After Worst Week Since 2023; Weak Consumer Spending Adds To Economic Concerns; Trump Confirms Retaliatory Tariffs Set For April 2nd. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired March 17, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: -- should be looking into.

Because certainly that would propose perhaps criminal or illegal behavior if staff members were signing the president of the United States' autograph without his consent.

(CROSSTALK)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: -- is on the record talking about issuing preemptive pardons to these people.

LEAVITT: But was he aware of the -- of his signature being used on every single pardon? That's a question you should ask the Biden White House.

COLLINS: Is there any evidence on that, that he wasn't aware of it?

LEAVITT: You're a reporter. You should find out.

Sean?

COLLINS: So I have a -- I have a question on the timeline of the flights.

You keep talking about the judges written order, which hit the docket Saturday night at about 7:26 p.m., but he issued a verbal order before that at about 6:45 and 6:48 p.m. based on the court hearing.

Does a verbal order from the -- the bench -- does the White House feel the need to comply with a verbal order from this judge?

LEAVITT: Again, as I said, all of the planes subject to the written order of this judge, departed U.S. soil, U.S. territory before the judges written order.

COLLINS: But what about the verbal order, which, of course, carries the same legal weight as a written order and said for the planes to turn around if they were in the air? LEAVITT: Well, there's actually questions about whether a verbal order

carries the same weight as a legal order, as a written order. And our lawyers are -- are determined to ask and answer those questions in court.

Sean?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Hey, so on Friday, the president suggested at length that it should be illegal to criticize judges. But he has repeatedly criticized --

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, we're listening to the White House briefing where Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt emphasizing that they're on the 10th yard line of peace ahead of this phone call tomorrow with President Trump and President Vladimir Putin of Russia, talking about Russia's war in Ukraine.

And also taking a lot of questions about the timing of a judge making a verbal order, telling planes that were deporting immigrants in the country under an act that does not require judicial review of their individual cases to El Salvador, whether those really should have taken off.

As a judge ordered that and said verbally that they should either not take off or be turned around. They were not. Some were already in the air. One, at least, was not in the air.

And so they're facing a lot of tough questions about the timing of how those deportations to El Salvador happened.

We'll be back with more after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:36:53]

KEILAR: Wall street is bracing for another potentially rocky week. Right now, all markets are up, as you can see. The Dow coming off its worst week since 2023.

And investors are still on edge over the uncertainty of Trump's tariff policies.

Spending at U.S. retailers last month was also much weaker than expected. That added to concerns about the economy.

We have CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich with us now.

And, Vanessa, traders don't seem too bothered by this retail sales report. What's the mood like after last week's losses?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, with this retail report, it's not as bad as it could have been, but it's not as what was expected.

So investors are really sort of looking at this and saying it could have been a lot worse, but it's not what economists we're expecting.

Retail sales grew by 0.2 percent in the month of February. The expectation was 0.7 percent. So that is a far way off. But investors not too shaken by that number.

I want to draw you, though, to January's numbers. January's numbers initially were reported a decline in spending of 0.9 percent. And the revision, though even further in decline there, down zero point -- excuse me -- down 1.2 percent.

And really, this tracks with what we've been hearing from major retailers, like Walmart and Kohls and Best Buy, who have been signaling for really weeks now that Trump's tariff policies and the nervousness around inflation would soften consumer spending.

Not just for the month of February and January, Brianna, but for the entire year. So their -- their outlook is really looking like they expect consumer spending to continue to fall as the year progresses.

KEILAR: And, Vanessa, Trump is confirming he's going to impose sector- based and reciprocal tariffs starting on April 2nd. No exemptions for steel and aluminum. What does that look like yes.

YURKEVICH: Yes, well, just think of everything that is made with steel and aluminum for example. Right? All of those items are likely going to get more expensive.

So you're talking about medical devices. You're talking about appliances. You're talking about cars. The cost to produce a car made with steel. But a lot of aluminum is expected to increase from anywhere from $3500 to $12,000.

And so ultimately, these businesses that import a lot of steel and aluminum and make products with these types of things, they have to decide what happens with that price increase.

And for a lot of businesses that simply can't absorb it, it does get passed down to the consumer.

And on April 2nd, as you said, the president is going to hit a lot of sectors, foreign imports coming into this country with reciprocal tariffs.

But, Brianna, the question then is do those countries put reciprocal tariffs on our reciprocal tariffs? You can just see how this trade war continues to escalate and prices continue to escalate for the U.S. Consumer -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes, you certainly can.

Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you.

Boris?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: New today, a major change of plans for Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, as he confronts growing backlash within his party.

And Congress being out for the week, Schumer was supposed to go on tour to promote his new book on anti-Semitism, but now his team says, quote, "Due to security concerns, Senator Schumer's book events are being rescheduled."

[13:40:03]

Earlier, we learned that Schumer did meet with his House counterpart, Hakeem Jeffries. The pair's first meeting since last week's funding fight clash, as brand new CNN polling finds that Democrats are now at record low favorability rating, just 29 percent favorable.

With us now is Lulu Garcia-Navarro, "New York Times" journalist and podcast host, who just published an interview one-on-one with Chuck Schumer.

Lulu, thank you so much for being with us.

First, I just want to get your reaction to his book tour being postponed. You spoke at length with him about this book.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I did. I spoke to him twice last week, once on Monday and then again on Saturday after that funding fight.

And, you know, the backlash was really growing after he took that vote. And there were all sorts of Reddit threads and grassroots movements to protest his book tour.

And so, I have to say, I'm not, surprised that he decided to call it off, because it was being completely overshadowed by this backlash that he is facing at the moment, amongst not only rank-and-file Democrats, but senior leadership as well.

People are really focusing on whether he is the man for this moment.

SANCHEZ: And you asked him very pointed questions about that. I enjoyed the -- the interview very much.

You asked him about calls for him to step aside, about whether Democrats have become irrelevant, some cringey messaging moments.

Is it fair to say, though, that his response was largely that he and the party are working hard and all of that will pay off once Trump becomes unpopular?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, that is the strategy he articulated to me. It was sort of a strategy that said we are going to chip away at Donald Trump and his popularity, and then when he gets below 40 percent approval, rating, then Republicans are going to want to work with us.

Then, you know, we'll be able to get legislation passed even though we are in the minority. That somehow this is going to solve the Democrats many problems. I think, on the heels of that, though, what I have heard from other

Democrats in the House and in the Senate is that they feel like he doesn't get it.

That 29 percent approval rating shows that it's Democrats themselves that are angry at this. They want to see some fight against Donald Trump.

They're not interested in strategy. They're not interested necessarily in the long view. They're interested in someone providing leadership. And he is one of the most senior Democrats in the party.

And they feel like he does not quite understand what this moment calls for. He, of course, refuted that to me. He said that he fully understands that. You can read the interview for yourself and decide.

But I will say that many of the comments on the "New York Times" seem to suggest that they felt that he was out of touch.

SANCHEZ: You don't think that he's stressed at all by Democrats challenging his standing in the party by calling for him to be primaried?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, he pointed out that he's not facing a primary challenge until 2028. That is a long way away. So, you know, that is only one way, though, to have him step aside, if there's a lot of pressure, which there isn't at the moment.

I mean, there's a lot of grumbling, there's a lot of anger, but there isn't actually a concerted effort to get him to step aside from his leadership position.

The question is, you know, who would replace him? What does the party look like?

And this brings, I think, Boris, the bigger issues for Democrats right now. They are in the wilderness, as we like to say, when we're talking about politics. They don't control any of the arms of government. So there's very little that they can do.

And so the little leverage that they have, like the filibuster, like trying to get concessions from Republicans when there's budget fights, they feel that he squandered that.

And that's what they're mad about. And they feel like he did not display the leadership that they need right now. People need to coalesce, they say, around a very strong leader, and they feel like he is not that person.

SANCHEZ: Another aspect to the conversation I found really fascinating, Schumer told you, quote, "We lost working people because they didn't think we cared about them enough."

He expressed an interest in using social media to more effectively convey what the party is doing. He does not specifically --

(CROSSTALK)

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- yes.

SANCHEZ: Yes. He specifically doesn't mention cultural issues, though, or messaging around them, which Trump used very effectively in the last campaign. Did you get the sense that that is an area of focus for him?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I get the sense that Senator Schumer is a man of his era. He famously still uses a flip phone. He has been in politics for over 40 years. And as we all know, the media landscape has shifted dramatically.

And I think he is trying to keep up. He expressed that he has deputized a number of people in the Senate to help get the message out.

[13:44:59]

But the language that he used, you know, calling it "the social media," saying that they'd gotten 30 influencers for the State of the Union. That isn't a very big number.

I mean, you know, there were -- people who looked at this and heard it, felt that perhaps he was a little bit slow to understand how dramatically things had shifted and how much Democrats need to get their act together when it comes to messaging.

But it's not only messaging. It's what is the message? It's not just, you know, are we going to help people? It's, what is the plan? What are the policies? What do the Democrats stand for right now?

And that, I think, is what everyone is grappling with in that party.

SANCHEZ: Lulu Garcia-Navarro, thank you so much for joining us.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Muchas gracias.

SANCHEZ: Coming up, they've been waiting for this moment for months. Astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams about to head home. But after so long in space, what's it going to be like to be back here on earth? We're going to talk to someone who knows firsthand. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:50:24]

SANCHEZ: It is finally happening. It looks like Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams are finally coming home after their extended stay in space. Barring any further delays, the two astronauts will splashdown tomorrow night off the gulf coast.

The trip was supposed to last just one week, about one week when they blasted off on the Boeing Starliner back in June. But because of problems with that spacecrass -- spacecraft, NASA deemed it too risky to bring them home.

KEILAR: It was a spacecrass --

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: -- that it took so long. That's exactly what it was, Boris.

Instead, Wilmore and Williams will climb into a SpaceX capsule tomorrow. They're going to undock from that space station, and they will, we are told, arrive back home around 6:00 p.m. Eastern if the weather cooperates, if. Another if.

OK. So their long-awaited departure was made possible by this weekend's arrival of these folks -- their relief team Crew 10. Big hugs, smiles by Williams.

Of course, that floating hair. We're going to miss it, but we're glad it's coming home. Wilmore and the rest of the crew of nine there.

Joining us now is former NASA astronaut Garrett Reisman, who now teaches at the University of Southern California.

All right. Garrett, let's say they're coming -- we really want to believe this is happening. But I got to see them on the ground to know it.

And I do want to note that you spent 95 days in space in 2008 when you served on Expedition 16 and 17 for NASA. They've spent longer.

But what's it going to be like for them after having been up in space for so long when they come back down?

GARRETT REISMAN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Yes, Brianna, I call my flight the Goldilocks Mission because, you know, three months I think is just about just right.

Any shorter than that, you don't get the full experience. Any longer than that and I think, you know, you feel like, OK, it's time to come home. So I was lucky I came home.

And I tell you, when you get back to earth, your body goes through a lot of changes when you go up to space. And when you come back to earth, you have to go through all those changes in reverse.

And at first you don't feel so great. Your sense of balance is all out of whack. And you're a little bit weak, and you have actually less blood volume. There's a lot of things going on. And it's a little uncomfortable. But you bounce back usually pretty quickly.

SANCHEZ: Yes, I imagine it's something like sea legs, like you're so used to moving a certain way that suddenly your body is having the effect of gravity on it is very different.

I also read that you felt your sense of taste and smell were dulled in space. Did it come back right away? Did it come back gradually? Do you remember what your first smell or taste was when you got back? And also, I hope you don't mind if I'm asking for you.

KEILAR: I want all of them.

SANCHEZ: Does the International Space Station have a smell to it? Is it --

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Is it like mildewy? What does it smell like up there?

REISMAN: Well, so the thing is, you're right. This is a very common occurrence because of what's called the fluid shift.

A lot of our blood volume that normally resides down in our legs, without gravity, it all comes up here to your chest and into your head, and you get this puffy head, almost like you're congested.

And it does, just like when you have a cold, it deadens your sense of smell and taste. That might be a blessing because, to answer your question, I don't -- I didn't smell very much up on the space station.

I remember when we first opened the hatch from the space shuttle, there was like a little bit of a locker room smell, but it went away within a few minutes.

It might stink to high heaven, and none of us know, right?

(LAUGHTER)

REISMAN: So it may be a really fortunate occurrence.

But, yes, when you came home, it comes back right away. So that that blood drains out, goes back to your legs and the rest of your body and your sense of smell.

I remember as soon as we opened the hatch of the space shuttle, and I got my first whiff of, like, pollen and like, nature. It was -- it was -- it just smelled great. It was awesome.

KEILAR: I will say, maybe space rhinitis is a blessing, though, because you're not smelling like all the flowers and the blooming as they will actually, because it's just that time of year.

So we have video -- we have images. We are showing you exercising on board the International Space Station. I know that you suffered from a lack of bone density.

Talk a little bit about that, but also how you say NASA has figured out a way to mitigate this.

REISMAN: Yes, that's true Brianna. So we -- previously, with long- duration space flight, it was a big problem where you generally were losing about 1 percent of your bone density every month that you spent in space. Obviously, this is a problem. And the same thing with muscles. The muscles in your legs, because --

you're not walking, you're not going upstairs, you're just floating. And so you're not using those muscles in your postural muscles. You're not sitting up straight. You're not standing up straight.

[13:55:09]

So all those muscles in your core, they tend to atrophy. And this was an issue. But what we found is that by doing resistive exercise, mostly like you were showing there, using resistive devices on space, stretching that stretched kind of like elastics or bungee cords.

Now we have one that uses pneumatics, a piston that you push against. Because, obviously, like lifting free weights won't work. I mean, like I could bench press the entire space station. It was awesome.

(LAUGHTER)

REISMAN: But -- but -- but we have other ways of creating resistance. And that's really critical.

And now we're bringing people back without any loss of bone density, any significant loss, and any muscle atrophy. So we've kind of figured that out. People are getting all the way back to their baseline after they come home.

So like Butch and Suni, it might take them a little while, but they'll recover all their bone mass and -- and all their all the muscles as well.

SANCHEZ: There is the physical recovery, but I imagine there's also a psychological one as well.

And folks have talked about the overview effect, this struggle to do mundane tasks. I imagine that when you look out the window and you see the entire planet and the vastness of space, it inspires something in you day to day, and then you get back to earth and you're stuck in gridlock traffic.

What is that like?

REISMAN: That's very interesting, Boris. There's really two aspects to that -- that question.

The -- the overview effect is this when you look out the window and you see the entire planet earth, and you realize that all the things that divide us, like politics, gender, religion, nationality are kind of pale in comparison to the fact that we all live together in one planet.

So there's that common kind of eureka moment that a lot of astronauts talk about. And I personally never really felt that, to be honest with you. Because I think I knew that before I went up there.

I don't think you should have to strap into a rocket and look back at the planet to know that fundamentally, that we are all equal as human beings, right? And that those things should be self-evident. You shouldn't have to go into space to know that, is my personal opinion.

But a lot of people do come back with that impression. And it's a wonderful impression. I don't mean to denigrate it too strongly.

But the other thing is, then you come back, you've achieved this pinnacle in your career, you've gotten to space. What's next? Right?

And that's a separate question that is not all that uncommon from what athletes go through after an Olympics or after a Superbowl, or after they decide their career is over.

And they're still pretty young and they have to decide, you know, ok, you know, I've been there, done that. What happens next? And that actually can be pretty difficult to deal with.

KEILAR: Yes, I've been to the moon. Now what? Right? Outer space. Now what?

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: If you're like Garrett, you get to join us on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

We very much appreciate your time, Garrett.

KEILAR: We appreciate it. And we're sorry, Garrett, but we hope we made it fun for you.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: Garrett Reisman, thank you.

And all the olfactory information.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

KEILAR: Fascinating.

SANCHEZ: The locker room in space.

KEILAR: Yes.

Garrett, thanks so much. Great to have you.

REISMAN: My pleasure. Always fun.

KEILAR: So ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, a legal showdown over President Trump's war on undocumented migrants after hundreds of accused gang members are deported despite a judge's order to stop those flights. We'll have that next.

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