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White House Defying Judge's Order to Stop Deportation Flights; Brown University Doctor Deported to Lebanon Despite Judge's Order; Columbia University Pro-Palestinian Activist Remains in Ice Custody; Trump Claims Pardons Biden Issues to January 6 Committee Members Are Void. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 17, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:02:40]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Hundreds of migrants sent to a prison in El Salvador. But, did the White House deliberately ignore a judge's order to stop those deportations? That's the legal fight underway right now with a hearing in the case set just hours from this moment.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": When is it healthy for the markets to fall by more than 10 percent for the Treasury Secretary? Apparently, right now. The White House remaining publicly unbothered by this market turmoil. And what's next? After another disappointing report on the economy. And it is bracket busting season as March Madness kicks off this week. We're going to talk about the buzz around the basketball tournament, how much Americans are betting and why work productivity is taking a major hit this time of year. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

SANCHEZ: We begin this hour with a clash between the president and the courts. The Trump Administration now says its decision to deport hundreds of migrants accused of being gang members should be a "celebration "as it defends its actions in the face of a judge's order.

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TOM HOMAN, TRUMP'S BORDER CZAR: By the time the other order came, the plane was already over international waters with a plane full of terrorists and significant public safety threats. What the president did was exactly the right thing. We removed terrorists. That should be a celebration.

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SANCHEZ: President Donald Trump used a rarely invoked wartime law called the Alien Enemies Act to speed up this weekend's deportations to El Salvador, but a federal judge blocked it and ordered all flights carrying those migrants to turn back to the U.S. That didn't happen. And the White House to this point has not clarified how it was able to identify those migrants as alleged gang members.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio seemingly mocked the judge's order by reposting a comment to social media from El Salvador's President that reads, "Oopsie, too late." Let's take you now live to the White House with CNN's Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, what else are you hearing from administration officials on this?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Boris, the White House is defending its action on immigration. This is the latest move in what have been several examples of the president using his executive authority, which of course will be tested legally.

[14:05:00]

That hearing is at 5:00 p.m. But before that, the White House press secretary, she defended the action and she said, look, this is something that the -- the written order that the judge issued on Saturday, she said the planes were not in the air to El Salvador by that point. So they pushed back on the suggestion that they were flaunting or ignoring the judge's order. But again, she said the president has the right to do it.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is using every lever of his executive authority and his constitutional authority, within the bounds of the immigration laws of our country, to ensure that our streets are safer for law-abiding American citizens. And this administration is focused on detaining, arresting, and deporting illegal criminal aliens. And as you saw this past weekend, the President used his authority under the Alien Enemies Act to deport foreign terrorists. Tren de Aragua is now a designated forest foreign terrorist organization.

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ZELENY: So, what are we talking about here? You heard the press secretary there talking about that act from 1798, the Alien Enemies Act. It has only been used three times in history. Take a look at this. In the war of 1812, in World War I and then of course, the internment camps during the Second World War. That is the only time that this act has been used. The president, when he was flying back to Washington from a weekend in Florida, he essentially likened this immigration threat to a war.

But we can see there, this certainly is far different than these three wars in our history. So the bottom line to all of this is, when a judge holds a hearing at 5:00 p.m., first, is the White House in violation of the order? Did they ignore it? The White House says no, they did not ignore the written order. But there was an oral order on Saturday, essentially ordering the planes to turnaround, which they did not of course. So Boris, this is just the first step in the legal fight in one more case that could end up at the supreme court. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Jeff Zeleny, live for us at the White House. Thank you so much for the update. Brianna? KEILAR: We're following some new developments in the case of a Rhode Island doctor who was in the U.S. on a visa who is now deported to Lebanon despite a judge's order temporarily blocking her removal. A hearing set for Tuesday, or pardon me today, has been canceled after most of the attorneys associated with the doctor withdrew from the case.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is with us now on this story. And Gloria, you have some new reporting on what led to the doctor's removal. What have you learned?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. We've been trying to figure out in the last several hours exactly why immigration officers at Boston Logan Airport first stopped the doctor, and then during questioning, deported her back to Lebanon. We've just learned that during that questioning, they found photos in her phone of a Hezbollah leader. And that during questioning, she acknowledged to them that she had been in Lebanon and that she had attended the funeral for that leader. He was killed by Israeli strikes last September.

Now, all of this is coming out just in the last hour as we are trying to learn exactly why she was deported. As you said, she was here on a student visa. She was detained at the airport after making her way back from Lebanon. She was detained for about 36 hours, and then despite a judge's order, sent back to Lebanon. Now, we've learned that the immigration officers at the airport did not know about the judge's order not to deport her until she was already up in the air. But we have just heard in the last hour from the attorney that is representing Dr. Alawieh, this is what she had to say about her client.

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STEPHANIE MARZOUK, ATTORNEY OF DR. RASHA ALAWIEH'S FAMILY: Our client is in Lebanon and we're not going to stop fighting to get her back in the U.S. to see her patients. And we're also going to make sure that the government follows the rule of law.

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PAZMINO: Now, according to a source familiar with the case that I've been speaking to her morning, Brianna, she told me that there were photos on the phone of the doctor of leader Nasrallah, Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah. During questioning, she told them that she followed the leader's religious ideology, but not his political ideology.

And we have a statement from the Department of Homeland Security, acknowledging the deportation of Dr. Alawieh saying, last month, Rasha Alawieh traveled to Beirut, Lebanon to attend the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah, a brutal terrorist who led Hezbollah, responsible for killing hundreds of Americans over a four-decade terror spree. Alawieh openly admitted to CBP officers, as well as -- as her support for Nasrallah. A visa is a privilege, not a right. Glorifying and supporting terrorists who kill Americans is grounds for visa issuance to be denied. This is common sense security.

[14:10:00]

Now, we've heard in the last few days, Brianna, of other students whose visas have been revoked. This is the first time we are hearing directly from the Department of Homeland Security, this reasoning that her having these photos and having attended this funeral apparently is some sort of proof that she is a threat to the United States. Because officials were not able to determine that that was the reason she was deported, we are waiting to hear back the government's response, and we are expecting the parties to address the court in the next several days. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, Gloria, thank you for that report. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Today, Mahmoud Khalil, a Palestinian refugee whose green card was reportedly revoked over his involvement with demonstrations last spring at Columbia University, is still detained without charges at an ICE facility in Louisiana. The ACLU posted this video showing the moments of Khalil's arrest back on March 8th. These were captured by his pregnant wife. With me now is Ramzi Kassem. He's an attorney for Mahmoud Khalil and a Professor of Law at the university -- at the City University of New York, and Co-Director of CLEAR, the legal non- profit and clinic that represents Khalil.

Sir, thank you for being with us. I want to start by getting your reaction to statements from Secretary Rubio about your client. He said, "If you are in this country to promote Hamas, to promote terrorist organizations, to participate in vandalism, to participate in active rebellion and riots on campus, we never would've let you in if we had known that." What is your response?

RAMZI KASSEM, ATTORNEY FOR MAHMOUD KHALIL: Well, thank you for having me, Boris, and for giving me an opportunity to respond to what Secretary Rubio said. There's nothing in the quote that you just read out that is accurate or that applies to Mr. Khalil. Mr. Khalil has no associations with Hamas. He does not support that organization. He has not engaged in any of the conduct that Secretary Rubio described.

All he has done is speak up in defense of Palestinian lives and the human rights of Palestinians, and to ask Columbia University to divest from Israel's military assault on Gaza. He mediated between protesters and the university, but was not a protest leader, did not engage in vandalism or any of the sorts of things that Secretary Rubio describes.

SANCHEZ: The White House alleged that Khalil was distributing pro- Hamas propaganda, some flyers apparently with the terrorist group's logo on them. Is that accurate? Have they provided proof that he was behind those flyers?

KASSEM: That is completely inaccurate. Mr. Khalil, and I've spoken to him in a privileged conversation at the order of the federal court, he denies distributing any such flyers. He, again, denies any support or association with Hamas. That is not what he stands for. and it's notable, as you're suggesting, Boris, that the White House may have talked about these flyers from the bully pulpit in the press room, but they have not introduced them as evidence in federal court. And we'd welcome an opportunity to rebut that evidence should they do that. But there's a big difference between what they're saying to the news media and what they're actually saying in court.

SANCHEZ: So walk us through what you see as their argument in court.

KASSEM: Well, you know, that's actually a really good question for the government because their argument is at best vague. The secretary of state seems to be relying on a really obscure provision in the immigration law that says that anybody that he deems to pose some kind of a threat, of serious foreign policy consequences can be subject to deportation. But that is not a provision that Congress intended to be used to silence speech, which is what this case is about.

The administration is going after Mr. Khalil because he is an outspoken advocate for Palestinian rights, not spoken critic of U.S. and Israeli policy. It is mislabeling that as support for whatever organization, but the reality is this is about the First Amendment and whatever this old obscure law says, it does not trump the First Amendment.

SANCHEZ: Your team had previously argued that access to your client had been an issue. You'd asked that he be returned to New York as well. It sounds like you did get a chance to recently speak with him. I wonder if you've had improved communications, how he might be doing and what the response has been to the effort to get him from Louisiana to New York?

[14:15:00]

KASSEM: Yeah, thanks to the court's treatment of this case with the appropriate level of urgency and attention that it deserves, and the court's order granting our request that we have privileged access to our client. I mean, you have to keep in mind that, you know, for many days we had no access to him since he was taken off the streets, taken away from his wife by government agents for no known reason in the night, and moved a thousand miles away to Louisiana.

So the court allowed us -- ordered the government to allow us to have privileged video conferences with him. We've spoken with him. He very much looks forward to being back home in New York with his wife. So, we intend to push forward on every front. We have a motion for an order compelling his return to New York from Louisiana. We have a motion for bail. We have a motion for a preliminary injunction. We're leaving no stone unturned to vindicate, frankly, not just his First Amendment and due process rights, but those of any American who believes that speech should be free in this country regardless of whether or not the current administration at the White House happens to disagree with your speech.

SANCHEZ: Ramzi Kassem, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate you joining us and look forward to having you on again as the case proceeds.

KASSEM: Thank you so much. SANCHEZ: Brianna?

KEILAR: President Trump is claiming that sweeping pardons former President Biden issued before leaving office are "hereby declared void." In a post on Truth Social, Trump also wrote that the pardons are subject to investigation at the highest level. CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Katelyn Polantz is here with us now. Katelyn, what's the basis for Trump's claim here?

Katelyn Polantz, CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent: Well, Brianna, the idea of voiding a past president's pardons, it doesn't work that way. That's just not how the pardon power is set up to be. A president gets to make a decision on pardons, clemency, they issue it, that's it.

Separately, Trump is saying that in his social media posts that the issue he takes with this pardon of the January 6th Committee members preemptively that Joe Biden gave on his last full day in office, January 19th, is that there was the use of autopen there. Now, the legal history there is that it is a longstanding tradition of people using autopens. If you're the principal or say the president, you can delegate your authority to -- the authority to someone and have them sign or stamp your name, however they see fit, as long as you are the person that is making the decision that you want to do something.

And we have no evidence otherwise that Joe Biden wanted to do these pardons for the January 6th Committee members. There even was an opinion from the Office of Legal Counsel at the Justice Department in 2005 saying, yeah, the president can delegate whenever he signs. He doesn't physically have to sign with his own hand. Now, of course, this is something that we're going to continue talking about because White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, she just mentioned it in response to a question just a few minutes ago at the briefing.

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LEAVITT: The president was raising the point that did the president even know about these pardons? Was his illegal signature used without his consent or knowledge? That would propose perhaps criminal or illegal behavior if staff members were signing the president of the United States' autograph without his consent.

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POLANTZ: So, there's Leavitt shifting the focus a little bit from the auto pen to the -- was Biden actually making the decision? Again, we believe he did make the decision as president to offer these pardons. I've also talked to a bunch of law professors, even someone who worked in the Bush Justice Department at the Office of Legal Counsel on questions like this. And his response to me asking -- this is John Yoo, the conservative law professor, pretty well known, said he thinks Trump is just having fun at Joe Biden's expense right now.

KEILAR: Katelyn Polantz, thank you for that reporting. We appreciate it. Still to come, another red flag for the economy. As the treasury secretary, like the president, declines to rule out the possibility of a recession. And later, new developments in the search for a University of Pittsburgh student who vanished in the Dominican Republic. Authorities have now confiscated the passport of the American man who was believed to be the last person with her. These stories and much more coming up on "CNN News Central."

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KEILAR: After a rollercoaster week on Wall Street, today, stocks are trying to claw back from the rout. Right now, the Dow, S&P 500, and NASDAQ are all up. The Dow is up about 440 points. Investors though remain on edge over the uncertainty of Trump's tariff policies. Retail sales in February also came in weaker than expected, raising more concerns about the American economy. However, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is downplaying any long-term worries about the markets.

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SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I've been in the investment business for 35 years and I can tell you that corrections are healthy, they're normal. What's not healthy is straight up that you get these euphoric markets. That's how you get a financial crisis. It would've been much healthier if someone had put the brakes on in '06, '07. We wouldn't have had the problems in '08. So, I'm not worried about the markets. Over the long term, if we put good tax policy in place, deregulation, and energy security, the markets will do great.

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KEILAR: And we're joined now by Aaron Klein, a former Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Treasury Department. He's also a Senior Fellows at the Brookings Institution. And I do want to note, Aaron, that Bessent's comments there were said before this report on consumer spending.

All right, Aaron, so when you're listening to what Bessent is saying there, what do you think?

[14:25:00]

AARON KLEIN, FORMER TREASURY DEPARTMENT DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY: Yeah. Well, first of all, I have to laugh a little bit.

KEILAR: Why?

KLEIN: I mean, he's talking about what caused the financial crisis. And then he is saying, and we're going to deregulate. It's almost as if he'd forgotten that it was the deregulation that helped drive the financial crisis. The second part --

KEILAR: Can we -- can we just --

KLEIN: Yeah.

KEILAR: Can we unpack that a little bit more?

KLEIN: Sure.

KEILAR: Because that, I mean, we're all sort of traumatized by 2008. So let's go back to that. He's talking about tapping the brakes ahead of 2008 as if there was some kind of like economic, like it was an inflation thing or something.

KLEIN: Right.

KEILAR: But that's not what it was.

KLEIN: Unlike COVID, right?

KEILAR: It was packaged securities.

KLEIN: It was a manmade disaster driven in large part by financial deregulation pushed by the same ideologues that are right now pushing more financial deregulation. The entire subprime mortgage market crisis could have been avoided if these types of financial products have been regulated positively, including subprime mortgages. There are good subprime mortgages. So, it's almost as if he's forgetting the central lesson of the 2008 crisis.

KEILAR: OK.

KLEIN: The second thing that I find funny about Bessent's core point today is the first Trump administration constantly pointed to the stock market as a method of success. Look, stock market prices are high. Now they're saying, oh, don't worry about the market. It's not a true relation of economic performance. I'm actually sympathetic to the latter point. I think day-to-day fluctuations in the stock market are not a metric of fine overall economic health, but it's not a consistent message coming out of this administration at all on what they ought to be judged by.

KEILAR: OK. So not consistent, but they're more in the right now than they were before?

KLEIN: Well, they are in terms of the metric of not caring about the stock market.

KEILAR: That's right.

KLEIN: They are more in the right, but they're not there because they've gotten there ideologically. They're there because the market is telling them we don't like your policy. So they're trying to ignore it and change the goalposts.

KEILAR: Anyone who's been around Trump will say he is watching the market. He's always watching the market. It's just his way. So we did get some of this new data that I was mentioning before on retail spending, weaker in February than economists had expected, declined the most at department stores, restaurants, bars, gas stations. What are you seeing in that? What are you looking at when it comes to a possible recession as people are increasingly worried about that?

KLEIN: Yeah, look, recession likelihoods are rising in part because of the crazy policies that this administration is doing. Trump's may be so, maybe not tariff game where he goes on and off and on and off with tariffs is reducing business confidence, is making it harder for companies to invest. And people are seeing, you're fired, you're fired, DOGE, cutbacks, et cetera. And the types of categories you're describing are exactly the way people start to cut some of the things that they can, that are easy to.

I mean, you know, I don't know of my future jobs certainty, so I'm going to go out one less time this week to the restaurant, one less time to the bar. Make spaghetti at home one more time. These are textbook examples of how consumers and precarious families are living, thinking you know what, I could lose my job because one of these government contracts gets randomly canceled all of a sudden.

So these impacts of DOGE are starting to ripple through the economy. They're going to be felt first here in Washington. Where I live in Maryland, it's really hurting. And then it's going to ripple broadly through the economy as people realize how interconnected we are with the government.

KEILAR: So when you're looking right now at tariffs, the uncertainty in the markets and people are at home, some of them may have decided to make spaghetti one night a week, that's how they're going to save money. But, as they're trying to figure out what they should be doing, what would your advice be to them?

KLEIN: Well, look, I mean, be prudent. It is a good idea to batten down the hatches because you don't know what's coming on forward. In the long run, the health of this economy is going to be based on our -- how wise we are to make investments, how wise we are to grow, and how much the rest of the world continues to trust America. Look, our economy outperformed the rest of the world after COVID. We had some of the strongest economic growth relative to Europe, Canada, Japan, Asia. We were the economic engine of the growth after COVID with some pretty smart investment strategies. Now, it looks like the rest of the world is going to catch up to us in part because of these uncertainties caused by Trump's erratic behavior.

KEILAR: Yeah. Aaron Klein, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

And next, after launching a series of deadly weekend attacks against Houthi rebels, President Trump ratchets up the stakes with a dire new warning. And new video appearing to show the moment sparks ignite the roof of a North Macedonia nightclub, engulfing the building in flames and killing dozens who were trapped inside.

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