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Rep. Tim Burchett (R-TN) is Interviewed about the Deportation Showdown; Probationary Workers Being Reinstated; Baseball Begins in Japan Today; Healthiest Oils to Cook With. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 18, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:34:36]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking overnight, two American astronauts who have heard their names for months now, they had an eight-day mission. It turned into a nine month stay in space. They're finally on their way home. Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore waved to cameras before boarding the SpaceX Crew Nine capsule last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And undocking confirmed. Freedom is free of its moorings.

[08:35:03]

Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore begin their belated trip home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: I feel like there should have been a huge cheer after all that.

But anyway, overnight, the capsule undocked from the International Space Station, as you saw there. The return to earth finally happening after a new crew of astronauts arrived at the ISS on Sunday to take over the duties. Williams and Wilmore joined Crew Nine after issues on their Boeing Starliner capsule forced the duo to stay at the Space Station far longer than anybody originally planned.

But they are not the only ones returning home today. Also part of the crew are NASA's Nick Hague and cosmonaut Aleksandr Gorbunov. All four are expected to splash down off the coast of Florida between about 6:00 p.m. Eastern. Somewhere around there, John. And I feel like we should be watching because I think we have talked about them every day for the past nine months, wondering when they can come home.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: 6:00 p.m. is late. Way after my bedtime.

All right, happening now, the Trump administration is facing a new deadline to provide details after it deported hundreds of alleged Venezuelan gang members under a wartime powers act. White House senior adviser Stephen Miller says the courts have no right to try to stop it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: The district court has no ability to, in any way, restrain the president's authorities under the Alien Enemies Act, or his ability to conduct the foreign affairs of the United States. This judge violated the law. He violated the Constitution. He defied the system of government that we have in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now is Congressman Tim Burchett, a Republican from Tennessee. He's a member of the Foreign Affairs and Oversight Committee.

Congressman, always great to see you. What's your understanding of what Article 3 of the Constitution says about a judge's responsibility in federal law?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): Well, it's a district judge. Of course, it's an Obama appointee, apparently, in the District of Columbia. And I think it's very fuzzy at best. I think Trump's administration is correct in that this guy has no standing. It's just political posturing, in my opinion. You've got murderers, rapists, child predators, child traffickers that are here in this country illegally. They're here illegally. They're not American citizens. And we finally have a president that understands that.

We have 14 million of these folks coming in illegally that our systems are stretched to the limits to manage. And finally, somebody's doing something about it. And then you have a judge stepping in and saying, no, in fact, the president does not have that ability. So I stand with President Trump. I think it's a complete overreach by this judge. And he's an activist. He's showed up at court cases in the past at things. And so I just don't go ahead.

BERMAN: The argument right now isn't over whether or not these people should be in the country. The argument is over whether it is lawful to remove them under the Alien Enemies Act. And I'll just read you from Article 3 of the Constitution. The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court and in inferior courts, as Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. Inferior courts are district courts. You yourself acknowledge this as a district court judge.

And then Article 2 -- sorry, Section 2 of Article 3 says the judicial power shall extend to all cases in law and equity arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States and treaties made or which shall be made under their authority. The Constitution states pretty clearly that federal judges interpret federal law. Do you have a gripe with that?

BURCHETT: No, except for this judge is a created situation. And I just don't -- I don't think it's viable. I think it's political overreach by the left. And that's why I don't think that's why you're not seeing a lot of members of Congress on the left that are trying to stand up and say something.

BERMAN: Do you have evidence that he was unlawfully confirmed by the Senate?

BURCHETT: No, what I have evidence of is that the people that he deported, that the president deported are criminals. And I don't I never understand why CNN takes the side of a bunch of murderers that have come into our country illegally. And I realize you all have your -- you have to make your stand. But that is complete nonsense. And the American public's not buying it.

Listen, this is -- this is an act of war by these countries. These people have come in and they come across our border illegally. What would happen if 14 million people swarmed the border at one time, yet it was spread out over four years, 14 million people? What do you consider that an unlawful invasion? It's an act of war. These folks are not playing fair. They're emptying their criminals on us. And it is an act of war.

BERMAN: Congressman, the media didn't write the Constitution, the founding fathers did. And all I'm asking is whether you think Tom Homan, I'll put this up on the screen, said we're not stopping. I don't care what the judges think.

[08:40:02]

All I'm asking you and you are an elected member of Congress, and we certainly respect that role. What your advice is to the White House? Do you think that the White House has the responsibility to follow rulings from the federal judiciary?

BURCHETT: I think President Trump has the ability and authority to protect this country from unlawful entry and from criminals conducting criminal activity. And I believe that he acted appropriately and Tom Homan acted appropriately. And that's why, overwhelmingly in this country, people support that. And they think this judge has overstepped his bounds.

BERMAN: Well, so no matter what a judge says.

BURCHETT: And he's taking the side of a bunch of -- he's taking the side of a bunch of criminals.

BERMAN: He hasn't taken any -- he hasn't taken any side yet. Congressman, Congressman, he hasn't taken any side yet. All he's done is put a stay on the White House action here so that he can review their use of the -- their novel use, frankly, of the Alien Enemies Act.

BURCHETT: Oh, come on. These guys -- listen, these guys -- the difference between God and these judges is God knows he's not one of these judges. They're arrogant. They practice this type of thing all the time. And when, if you had a conservative one doing it, you all would be raised in total hell.

(CROSSTALK) BERMAN: Again, Congressman, this isn't a question -- this isn't a question about the media. This isn't a question about the media. No one's taking his side here.

Congressman -- Congressman --

BURCHETT: Yes, you are --

BERMAN: -- no one's taking his side here. I'm --

BURCHETT: He is not --

BERMAN: I'm asking you about the Constitution. I'm asking you about the Constitution. As -- is asking about the Constitution, taking his side. All I'm asking you is about the Constitution, what you think of it, and what you would advise this White House and your feeling about judicial rulings. And that seems to be upsetting you. I'm just trying to get your position on this and what you would advise the White House going forward.

BURCHETT: It's not upsetting. Look, I guess what upsets me is that you all at CNN continuously take the side of the far left and that's why your ratings continue to plummet. And I do not ever understand why you all do that. Every time --

BERMAN: Congressman --

BURCHETT: I know you've got to take the opposite side on everything, but you are wrong on this one. Listen, this is a gang that took over an apartment complex in Colorado.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: -- we appreciate -- we appreciate -- we appreciate your concern here. There's not been a side taken.

BURCHETT: They murder people.

BERMAN: There's not been a side taken.

BURCHETT: They are criminals.

BERMAN: We're trying to understand.

(CROSSTALK)

BURCHETT: They are criminals. They are not American citizens.

BERMAN: You can argue.

BURCHETT: -- taking their side to CNN.

BERMAN: Congressman, can you -- can you, Congressman --

BURCHETT: What is wrong with you all? You are so out of touch with what's 85% of this country does not support what you are spewing out right now.

BERMAN: We haven't spewed -- the only one spewing is the guy who's talking uninterrupted right now.

BURCHETT: How long does it take him to review this stuff? How long does it take him to review this stuff? These judges, he'll sit on his ass for months so these criminals can stay in this country. This is all this is. This is overreach.

And I guarantee you, if his kids had been murdered or raped, as has happened in this country to several American citizens by these thugs, that he would be taking a different position. But he's protected. You all protect them. You all have got to come off this. Seriously, I don't know how you all sleep at night when you protect criminals, murderers and rapists.

BERMAN: Congressman, can I ask -- can I ask you to stop for one second here? I think if you go through and analyze the questions I asked, very carefully worded, they were about the Constitution. I think it's fair to ask a member of Congress about the Constitution and his understanding about it. I asked it in incredibly respectful ways. And I respect your opinion on this, sir.

I also respect the fact that you seem very concerned with the future of the media industry. That aside, that aside, sir, I do think a discussion about the law is valid. And I was asking you your interpretation of it, the White House interpretation of it, and what should happen next.

The discussion right now before this judge, the discussion before the judge today is not whether or not what they did was legal in regards to these gang members. And it may be the absolute right policy to get them out. The discussion before the judge today is whether or not the White House followed his instructions.

BURCHETT: If y'all want to issue a lecture, go ahead and issue a lecture and leave me off. But if we need to get those people out, they are criminals. Look at those thugs and tell me you want those -- those thugs living in your neighborhood. Do you want them in your neighborhood? Do you want them running your apartment complex as they did in Colorado? No. Heck no.

Look, you asked me my opinion. I gave it. I think the president is correct. I think Tom Homan is correct. I think America supports this. And we are tired of these activist judges reaching out way over their skis. And that's what this guy's done.

Look at the history of this guy. He shows up at court cases. He's anti-Trump. We know this. Everybody knows this. This is no secret. You know, this is no secret. This is just ridiculous. You all have way overstepped on this one because the American public is not buying it and nobody hears.

BERMAN: Congressman, I will only say -- I will only say not once did I overstep in any way by asking you questions about the Constitution.

[08:45:03]

You know that. And you know there was no -- there was no --

BURCHETT: And I gave you my opinion and you refused to take it.

BERMAN: I listened to your opinion very much. I was asking for your opinion.

BURCHETT: I gave you my opinion, brother.

BERMAN: OK.

BURCHETT: I gave you my opinion.

BERMAN: All right.

BURCHETT: I gave you my opinion.

BERMAN: I appreciate it.

BURCHETT: And you refused to take it.

BERMAN: I believe for the last several minutes we've been taking it.

BURCHETT: But I didn't support the right to be wrong.

BERMAN: Congressman Tim Burchett -- Tim Burchett, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your words extensively.

Sara?

BURCHETT: And it's someone --

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: OK, well, he's still going but he's saying the same thing. Thank you so much. Nice job, John.

All right, a new twist in President Trump and Elon Musk's attempt to downsize the federal workforce following a federal judge's ruling that terminated probationary workers must be temporarily reinstated. Multiple agencies have rehired laid off employees but are placing them on administrative leave. So essentially what that means is, they're getting paid not to work.

CNN's senior reporter, Marshall Cohen, is joining us right now.

Marshall, what's going on here?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Hey, Sara, it's kind of a good news, bad news situation. The good news, as you said, these workers are getting their jobs back. But the bad news is, they're being placed on leave. They won't be allowed to do their jobs.

Remember how we got here. You got to zoom out a little bit. Go back to last month when the Trump administration fired thousands of probationary workers across the federal government. Probationary, meaning, they're new. They don't have all the civil service protections. And that makes it a lot easier to fire them, which is exactly what the administration tried to do. Many of these workers and their unions went to court, filed lawsuits, and, last week, two judges agreed that these firings were unlawful and ordered the Trump administration to reinstate these employees.

And that's what we started to see happen yesterday at several agencies across the government. You see the logos here, the IRS, the EPA, the Food and Drug Administration, and NOAA, which is one of our weather agencies. Employees at these agencies, and maybe more, got notifications, according to our sources, that they were being brought back but being placed on administrative leave effective immediately. That means they'll get paid, but they're not supposed to do their jobs.

I'll read for you a quote from one of those emails that was sent to the IRS probationary workers yesterday. It said, pretty starkly, quote, "you should not report to duty or perform any work until receiving further guidance."

So, it's kind of a weird situation, Sara. And one of the judges in those cases, he noticed what was going on. He said last night in a court filing that he had seen the news reports about these people being brought back but being placed on leave. He said that that does not honor his order to reinstate these workers and put them back on the job. And he demanded, Sara, that the Justice Department provide an explanation by 12:00 today.

SIDNER: Not just weird, but wasteful, if you look at the scenario where someone's being paid not to work, when DOJ's whole point is to try and lower the amount of money spent on federal agencies.

We will see what happens. The judge not happy on this one. We will see how this goes forward.

Marshall Cohen, great reporting from you this morning. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, baseball fever. They are playing right now as we speak in Japan. Shohei Ohtani is on Japanese soil with the Dodgers. They're playing the Chicago Cubs. This is the opening game of the baseball season. Everyone else plays in about ten days. The Dodgers were winning last time we checked.

With us now from Tokyo, CNN's Hanako Montgomery.

So, how's it going so far? It's great to have baseball.

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. It's good to see you.

So, right now we are in the ninth inning. The game is very close to finishing, which means that we are also a day closer for Ohtani mania to end here in Japan. But fortunately for many of Shohei Ohtani's Japanese fans, the Dodgers are indeed winning. They are leading 4 to 1. And actually, Ohtani took a swing at bat earlier. Actually at the top of the ninth inning. I was in there myself. And the crowd absolutely erupted. They were so excited to see their homegrown hero showcasing the skills that he picked up in the United States.

Now, interestingly, John, you can see here behind me, there are hundreds of people outside Tokyo Dome. Now, some of these people are heading home after a very long night of baseball. A very fun night. But also, some of these people were here for hours. They didn't have tickets to tonight's game, or Wednesday's game, in fact. Those tickets were actually sold out within an hour after they became available. And some of those tickets were actually reselling for about 17,000 U.S. dollars on some resale sites. I mean those are astronomical numbers when we're talking about a baseball game here.

But these fans were here today to revel in the excitement of Ohtani, to revel in his fandom, and really just to celebrate their homegrown hero coming back to Japan, stepping back on Japanese soil, and playing the great game of baseball.

[08:50:12]

Now, we spoke to some of those superfans earlier today about how excited they were to have Ohtani home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Ohtani's very handsome, isn't he? But he got married. That was unfortunate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Oh my, I'd be delighted if Ohtani ever sees me. But I've heard some people say it doesn't look that cute. So, I'm sort of regretting not making the outfit a little cuter. But I did what I could.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MONTGOMERY: Now, a lot of wild costumes and fandom here in Tokyo.

But, John, we have to remember that baseball has been really big in Japan for about a century now. But thanks to Shohei Ohtani's star power, he has truly elevated the profile of the game and has brought baseball to absolutely brand new heights, as we saw here today. I mean, there's just so much excitement. I wish you could be here at Tokyo Dome with me, John, because it is just absolutely incredible. Even if you're not a fan of baseball, it is just a superb and very fun night.

John.

BERMAN: Oh, man, I wish I were there right now. That would be awesome. Next year, we'll do it.

All right, Hanako Montgomery, great to see you. Glad you could see it.

All right, olive oil or butter? Grapeseed oil or margarine? New reporting on what you should be cooking with to stay healthy.

Monkeys, potential murder and boatloads of awkward tension. New, behind the scenes details from season three of "The White Lotus" from a deep, inside source.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:57:07]

BERMAN: All right, this morning, what should you be cooking with? Margarine, butter, beef tallow, seed oils like sunflower and soybean? What is actually healthier? There seems to be a debate raging now.

With us now, chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, can you take us through the science here?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Yes. So, first of all, a little bit of history. I mean for a long time basically most that people cooked with was - was animal fats, you know, butter and beef tallow. That was what we cooked with for - for a long time, until sort of the middle of last century when people started to notice a sort of correlation between those saturated fats and those oils and heart disease. And that really, I think, you know, sort of spawned the growth of a lot of these seed oils and plant based oils, like we're talking about here, soybean oil, canola oil, for example, but also avocado oil and olive oil, for example. That - that was sort of the transition that was happening.

Over, you know, rough - several decades now they got an idea of what was the impact on this. And I'm going to show you what some of the studies have shown. But, keep in mind, food studies, John, are really hard to do. You probably can't remember what you had for dinner last night, let alone tracking your diet over several months or even a year.

But what they found over time was that there was an impact overall on cardiovascular risk, on heart disease risk. And this was a study over 200,000 people following people for decades, trying to figure out what the impact was. And they saw that with butter, for example, there was a 15 percent increase overall. And with plant-based oils, a 16 percent decrease risk with regard to mortality. Again, hard studies to do. What else were you doing in your life? What kinds of foods were you eating? Were you a smoker? What kind of activity? But that was sort of the general trend. And I think that that's what's really, you know, created this sort of increased desire for non-saturated fat cooking oils.

BERMAN: Then why are we hearing so much recently that plant-based oils or seed oils, these claims that they're harming our health?

GUPTA: Yes, I think there's - there's a few things. And again, I'll cut to the chase and say, look, if you're really worried about heart disease, saturated fat, probably not a great idea. But with regard to these seed or plant-based oils, I think there was really three things that jumped out.

First of all, omega six and omega three fatty acids. You've probably heard of this. You need both. But what you need is a balanced ratio. Linoleic acid, specifically, is one that is an omega six. That sort of became a mismatch. You had about 9 percent on average in people, you know, several decades ago. Now it's closer to 22 percent in 2008. Numbers have probably gone up even since then.

But that other screen that you just saw, so the mismatch in omega six versus omega threes, but also, you got to really process these oils to make them, you know, effective cooking seed oils. And that multi-step process could potentially induce some harmful chemical changes.

[09:00:01]

Also, the chemical changes that you get when you cook at a very high temperature, that's the thing. Some of the - you know, when you're talking about beef tallow.