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Musk Visits Pentagon as It Weights Major Cuts to Top of Military; Judge Films Himself Handling Guns to Explain Dissent; DOJ Faces Judge Amid Legal Right Over Deportation Flights; Voters Unleash Fury on Some Lawmakers at Town Halls. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 21, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Reaction to that New York Times report that Elon Musk was set to review war plans with China at the Pentagon today. Trump denying all of that. It doesn't appear from our reporting that that wound up happening.

I do wonder if you think that given Musk's success with SpaceX that there might be some benefit to having his input on matters of spending when it comes to defense.

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA) RANKING MEMBER, OVERSIGHT SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I don't know. I don't -- I think there is a conflict of interest there. Right. That's pretty clear. And sure, you know, we can have his input but we should have everyone else's input including his competitors. Right.

And including, you know, the American people. Right. And so I'm a little bit skeptical that we need only one opinion when it comes to matters of defense for instance.

SANCHEZ: Sure. And lastly your your thoughts about this announcement about this new war plane the F-47. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth calling it a gift to future generations.

We had analysts on earlier saying that this has the potential to become just a boondoggle and a money pit for the U.S. government. What do you think.

SUBRAMANYAM: I think we need to be careful about how we are spending our resources and we need to make sure that, you know, moving forward we at least have some transparency and accountability about, you know, what's going on there right now.

I've sent more than 100 letters to the administration with no response. And I want to know -- I mean if if they're serious about being efficient and accountable and making things better in government they should be working with us. And I shouldn't be hearing about announcements in the press. We should be getting a heads up.

SANCHEZ: So you weren't aware that this was coming out until we saw President Trump in the Oval Office with those officials. SUBRAMANYAM: No no. And most of my news around this and around DOGE comes from the press. And that's the lack of transparency and accountability that we have these days with this administration. And so, you know, I've introduced legislation to increase transparency. I've tried to push as well. I know many others in Congress have.

But even a lot of Republicans in Congress probably aren't getting answers from this administration on what they're going to do.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Suha Subramanyam thank you so much for the time.

SUBRAMANYAM: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Up next the California appeals judge -- appeals court judge explains his disagreement with a ruling in a very unusual way taking folks inside his judges chambers and handling firearms. We'll explain next.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: An appeals court judge in California just did something that's believed to be illegal first. He used a video camera to explain his dissenting opinion in a Second Amendment case. This is Judge Lawrence VanDyke recording himself handling a firearm, explaining why he disagreed with his Ninth Circuit colleagues.

In a 7-4 ruling, the appeals court upheld a state ban on gun magazines with more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Finding the magazines are not arms protected by the Second Amendment, rather an accessory. Judge VanDyke said using that logic, many gun parts would be considered an accessory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE LAWRENCE VANDYKE, U.S. COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT: But it occurred to me that in this instance, showing is much more effective than telling. Here's a bunch of grips that I've accumulated over the years. California's argument, which the majority is unwisely adopted here, is based on the unstated assumption that there's some basic, I guess unadorned without any accessories, firearm that would be protected as an arm under the text of the Second Amendment, but everything else is merely an unprotected accessory that's been added to that firearm that's unprotected.

And I hope you can tell from this video that that idea is simply unrealistic. It could never be applied in real life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Van Dyke said he rendered inoperable all of the guns that were seen in that video. There were quite a few, as you can tell. Let's discuss now with CNN contributor Stephen Gutowski, a gun safety instructor and firearms reporter for thereload.com.

I do want to ask you about his approach, but first, Stephen, just tell us about this case in question.

STEPHEN GUTOWSKI, GUN SAFETY INSTRUCTOR: Yes, this is a pretty significant case out of the Ninth Circuit. It deals with California's magazine ban, and it's actually been ongoing now for eight years. And we've had several rulings from the Ninth Circuit on this already.

But because the Supreme Court kind of reset their Second Amendment jurisprudence back in 2022, they had to go through the whole process again. They've reached the same conclusion they did the first time around, which is upholding that California ban. And now it may be headed back up to the Supreme Court after this this final ruling.

KEILAR: Yes, we'll expect maybe another bite of the apple there. So the idea here from folks who agree with that majority ruling is that capping the number of rounds a gunman can fire before they pause to reload helps limit how much damage they can do. Can you talk a little bit about that argument and also the argument that judge -- the judge there was making, which is that this is an encroachment on the Second Amendment?

[15:40:00]

GUTOWSKI: Yes, so the argument behind these magazine limits that California has and other states have implemented as well is that they reduce the, you know, effectiveness of somebody who's trying to carry out something like a mass shooting because it forces them to reload more often. And then, of course, Judge VanDyke and Second Amendment advocates argue that this is an infringement on on their rights under the Second Amendment because these magazines are extremely popular.

They come standard in most firearms with more than a capacity of more than 10 rounds and and that they're protected by the Second Amendment's text. And that's kind of what this the majority opinion said, this isn't protected by the text of the Second Amendment because these magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, they're not necessary to operate, you know, a semiautomatic firearm. You can put a magazine in that holds less than 10 rounds and still use the firearm.

And that's kind of the point that Judge VanDyke was mainly addressing in this this video that he did. We had guns as kind of props to try and explain his position, arguing that under this logic, you could kind of say that about almost any gun part.

You could you could ban anything that's slightly better than, you know, the bare minimum necessary for the gun to function. And that was kind of his argument.

KEILAR: OK, so there's debate about this approach. Like I said, it's it's not something you see very often. And I wonder what you think about it, because there's a judge in the majority criticizing the video, saying that it contained quote, facts outside the record.

There are people who look at this and they say it's sort of like he's giving expert opinion. But I wonder what you think about this approach and how this informs people. Certainly a lot more people are going to be looking at his dissent because of this. GUTOWSKI: Yes, you know, it's it's one thing I would note is that the judiciary is very sort of small. See, conservative, not ideologically, but in the sense that they like to do things a certain way. And the tradition is very important.

And video dissents are not traditional things, not something you really ever see from a judge. And so that's part of maybe the fascination around it, why people are paying attention to it. But I mean, I think he's he's trying to use a different format than written word, which is what most judges have to rely on, you know, in their opinions to kind of make the point that he wants to make about about these these different gun parts. And what he sees is the flaw with the majority opinion on that front.

And, you know, I don't know that -- he doesn't say anything in there that's inaccurate necessarily on a factual basis. Right. And I -- whether it's the same thing as an opinion, an expert opinion that there's rules that govern how expert analysis is supposed to come in. You know, that's what that is. That's the other judge was complaining about.

You know, to me, it just comes across as him trying to illustrate a point he would you could certainly write out in in the dissent. And I believe he also does put it in his written dissent. But it's doing it in just a different format and one that is, like you mentioned, probably much more likely to get attention. This dissent is getting more attention than maybe even the majority ruling in the first place.

KEILAR: Yes. I don't know. He's not quite like TikTok level yet, but maybe someone's going to someone's going to watch it on YouTube. Yes, it would have to be much shorter.

So here we are at the beginning of a new administration is you're covering the Trump administration. I should note gun sales down nine percent last month. That's that's kind of what happened last Trump administration. But just zooming out a little bit, just more bigger picture. What are the big Second Amendment issues that are percolating right now and that you expect to hear in the near future?

GUTOWSKI: Yes, so, well, one, the Supreme Court is -- has already heard arguments in the ghost gun ban from the Biden administration, which was a rulemaking that they did it not technically a Second Amendment case, but it could be significant for gun owners and hobbyists and law enforcement. So we're expecting an opinion on that probably sometime in June, maybe, but it could come earlier.

They're also considering taking up a similar case to like this one in California on so-called assault weapons, AR-15s, AK-47s. The ban on those in Maryland is currently waiting. They're actually considering it today at the court.

Same for another magazine ban out of, I believe it was Vermont or Rhode Island. And so you could see major Second Amendment cases very soon here from the Supreme Court. And then on the administration side, you know, Donald Trump has not moved nearly as aggressively on this stuff as he has in a lot of other areas. Right. But he has promised to roll back a lot of the things that Joe Biden

did when he was president on the rulemaking front, not necessarily through legislation, but through executive actions. They haven't happened yet, but they're in the process of doing that.

We saw one come down this week on the restoration of rights for, you know, convicted people. You know, they're going to restart that process. So they're moving slower on this, but it is happening.

And then, yes, the other the last thing I'd mention is gun sales. Where is the industry going to be?

[15:45:00]

Is there going to be as much demand or is it going to fall like it did in the first Trump presidency? And the early indications are that demand is slowing down.

KEILAR: Yes, it's really quite a dip, nine percent in February.

KEILAR: Yes, it's really quite a dip, nine percent in February. Stephen, great to have you. Thank you so much for being with us.

And another Friday means the end of another wild week in Washington and beyond. A whole lot took place. I will take you through most of it, some of it, as much as we can next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: What a year this week has been.

[15:50:00]

Much of the week's headlines, of course, driven by the president's decision to invoke the centuries old Alien Enemies Act last weekend as the basis for speedily deporting hundreds of alleged Venezuelan gang members. The administration said they posed an extraordinary threat, didn't provide much proof on that. And a hearing is underway on the president's bid to revive the law.

This all started after U.S. District Court Judge James Boasberg temporarily blocked the administration's ability to invoke the law and ordered the administration to turn flights around, stop the deportations. But the planes landed not in Venezuela, but in El Salvador, where Salvadorian officials ushered the detainees into one of the country's most notorious prisons and released highly produced video of it.

Secretary of State Rubio reposting the Salvadorian president's tweet: Oopsie, too late.

And we have since learned that the lawyer for one of the men deported says U.S. immigration officials mistook his client's tattoo for a Tren de Aragua gang tattoo. He says his client picked the tattoo because it looks like the Real Madrid soccer team logo, that his client is a professional soccer player legally seeking asylum in America after protesting the Maduro dictatorship in Venezuela.

Judge Boasberg now demanding the D.O.J. answer for whether the administration ignored his orders as the president called for his impeachment of that judge, prompting Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts to issue a rare rebuke.

SANCHEZ: From these ongoing courtroom clashes to turbulent town halls during some heated public forums. Voters are letting their voices be heard loud and clear on both sides of the aisle. We saw Republicans grilled on DOGE cuts and layoffs and Democrats under attack for not fighting Trump hard enough. The backlash is clearly bipartisan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to find out what Elon Musk is doing and how we can stop him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When it comes to fighting these fights, we need you to be a little bit less polite, a little bit more hell no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is it that it's OK to attack myself and my coworkers and my veterans?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we do in the meantime to survive this dismantling of the government?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was proud to vote recently for the House budget resolution, which provides the framework.

(BOOING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where we're at. When are you going to stand up, and we're also on the human rights watch list. What are you going to stand up for?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: But he has anxiety over facing angry protests, have even deterred some lawmakers from making public appearances. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer postponing his planned book tour events in several cities, citing security concerns. Last week, the New York senator was excoriated by members of his own party for initially opposing a Republican led funding bill and then days later voting to advance it.

KEILAR: President Trump also working the phones with back to back calls to Ukraine's Vladimir Zelenskyy and Russia's Vladimir Putin this week. Both leaders agreed to a pause on hitting energy targets. But the specifics of that pause still in question and fall far short of the broader 30 day ceasefire the Trump administration was seeking.

Still, Trump pretty optimistic after the calls about ending the war, saying, quote, We're doing pretty well in that regard.

But hours later, this was Odesa overnight, last night. Russia launching a large scale drone attack there, hitting civilian targets, including a high rise residential building, a shopping center, according to a local governor there.

Ukraine also struck an air base almost 500 miles inside Russia. That was a military target, though.

Ahead of more talks in Saudi Arabia next week, the Kremlin demanding Ukraine forgo foreign military and intel aid, stop mobilizing or rearming in the event of a broader ceasefire. That's something allies of Ukraine worry would make them basically a sitting duck.

SANCHEZ: And a new lesson plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will sign an executive order to begin eliminating the Federal Department of Education once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: President Trump seeking to fulfill decades of conservative ambition, taking a big step toward eliminating the Department of Education, raising new questions for millions of parents, teachers and students and those relying on federal student loans. No president in modern history has tried to shut down a cabinet level agency. Of course, shutting it down does require an act of Congress.

And Trump officials acknowledge they don't have the necessary votes to dissolve the DOE. And like many of Trump's executive actions, this is another one that is likely headed for legal challenges.

KEILAR: And for this next one, I'm going to try something I've been waiting months to do. And if you know, you know, just sit right back and hear a tale, a tale of an eight day trip. Sunni and Butch in space nine whole months. But finally, back with this ocean dip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Copy, splashdown, we see main chutes cut. Nick, Alex, Butch, Suni, on behalf of SpaceX, welcome home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:55:00]

KEILAR: Because just remember, if you thought this week felt long, you weren't Suni Williams and Butch Willmore extremely, extremely, extremely delayed, but definitely not stuck, right? Definitely not stuck in space for nine months, right?

SANCHEZ: You nailed it. That was awesome.

KEILAR: It was -- I had to put in some extra syllables.

SANCHEZ: Should we incorporate some more singing of show tunes?

KEILAR: I mean, I I say yes, obviously. Oh, what a year this week has been.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Here's a story we've been tracking today. Researchers are calling a new discovery of footprints, a, quote, unprecedented snapshot of early Jurassic dinosaurs. According to a new study, a five foot slab of rock. This thing had been on display for the past two decades at a high school in eastern Australia. And during that time, researchers knew the 200 million years old rock was home to visible dinosaur footprints. But the significance of those fossils kind of remained a mystery.

KEILAR: But then they use this advanced 3D imaging light filled. Oh, my gosh. And this is what they got. It's so beautiful. They uncovered, researchers did, these hidden details. Kind of creepy, too, though.

Sixty-six fossilized footprints from forty seven individual dinosaurs.

[16:00:00]

Some kind of dance party going on in that rock there. It's one of the highest concentrations of footprints ever documented in Australia.

SANCHEZ: Were they doing the nut bush, that Australian dance?

KEILAR: They were. They must have been doing it very excitedly.

SANCHEZ: Yes, in tribute to Tina Turner, of course.

KEILAR: It makes total sense on the timeline. No, it doesn't.

All right, "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END