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DOJ Appeals Judge's Order Pausing Some Deportation Flights; Minority Senate Leader Schumer: I'm Not Stepping Down; Alleged Gang Boss Evades U.S. Justice with El Salvador Deportation; U.S., Trump's Foreign Envoy Steve Witkoff on Putin, I take Him at His Word. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired March 24, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

MICHAEL LIERSCH, HEAD OF ADVICE AND PLANNING, WELLS FARGO: Or for my income in the next year, two years, five years? And then the last bucket is a growth bucket. So what are my long-term investments?

And again, that doesn't mean set it and forget it. But what am I trying to accomplish? What's my growth target? What percent, you know, do I want to achieve over a 10, 20-year time frame?

And again, that doesn't mean set it and forget it, but what am I trying to accomplish? What's my growth target? What percent do I want to achieve over a 10, 20-year time frame?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm so glad you're here. You're welcome back with this good, targeted advice, Michael Liersch. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

LIERSCH: Thank you, Sara.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: An emergency appeal. The Justice Department fighting to resume deportation flights under a more than two-century- year-old law. As President Trump also continues to fight the very judge who's stepping in to stop them.

And a mother of five murdered in an Atlanta suburb. The new details about the man accused of killing her reportedly in the country illegally.

And 23andMe, the genetic testing site, now filing for bankruptcy. And the consumer warning one attorney general is putting out about your data on that site.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SIDNER: In just a matter of hours, an appeals court will begin considering whether or not the Trump administration can continue deporting migrants based on an 18th century law allowing the president to use wartime powers against civilians. The administration is using the Aliens Act of 1798 to deport

immigrants accused of being Venezuelan gang members. Judge James Boasberg temporarily halted those flights saying the use of that act to justify the deportations is problematic and concerning.

The administration argues the judge exceeded his authority and Trump has attacked him ever since.

CNN senior political analyst Mark Preston is joining us now. First of all, on these sort of attacks. And at this point, the courts have been the thing that has kind of stopped Donald Trump in his tracks when he's trying to go forward with all of these things. And I guess my question to you this morning is, is Congress ever going to step in and at some point say, OK, no, we also have power here. You can't do this. This is our domain. Or do the Republicans say, let's let the courts work it out. We're not going to get involved.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, let me give you the timeline on how I think this will work out. Right now, Congress is really toothless to stop Donald Trump. You know, he has control of both the House and the Senate. And we saw with the government funding bill that he has control of basically every one of those members. You know, they fell lockstep behind Donald Trump.

The real question is, when do the American people start to put pressure on these members of Congress, which will then in turn force them to do something?

Also, when will Republicans really just start to step up? Now, we've already seen Justice John Roberts came out and rebuked Donald Trump for his attack on the judiciary last week. And then we just saw in the New York Times yesterday, Judge Luttig, he's a very, very well-known conservative, former judge, conservative scholar.

He writes in the New York Times: A rebuke from the nation's highest court is his wished for war with the nation's federal courts could well cripple Mr. Trump's presidency and tarnish his legacy.

Now, keep in mind, this is somebody who, by and large, holds the same politics as Donald Trump, yet is criticizing for him how he's handling judiciary.

SIDNER: Right. All right, I want to turn now to the Democratic Party. You've got Nancy Pelosi telling Hakeem Jeffries what he needs to do. You've got Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer saying, this after facing pushback for his vote that angered a lot of Democrats to advance the GOP-led funding bill. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Look, I'm not stepping down. I knew when I cast my vote against the government shutdown that there would be a lot of controversy. And there was.

But let me tell you and your audience why I did it, why I felt it was so important. The CR was certainly bad, you know, the continuing resolution. But a shutdown would be 15 or 20 times worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: OK. So I guess the question is, is there room for Democrats to make a comeback here? When you have this sort of battling House and Senate, you know, we're seeing pictures from February of Hakeem Jeffries standing behind Chuck Schumer there. But there's a lot of anger amongst Democrats about how they're handling themselves.

PRESTON: Well, there's a lot of anger, specifically with the House Democrats who were upset the Senate Democrats for not following their lead. Basically, House Democrats voted all against, you know, basically voted against Donald Trump, all but one House Democrat.

[08:05:00]

Over in the Senate, Democrats gave the votes for Donald Trump to get through this bill.

The reality is, is that there is no leader right now. Hakeem Jeffries is not seen as necessarily the leader of the party, although there's a lot of pressure on him to do so right now. Chuck Schumer has been the Democratic leader for nine years in the U.S. Senate. A lot of pressure on him to step aside. The fact of the matter is, is that Democrats have some time, but not that much time to figure out how to take on Donald Trump -- Sara.

SIDNER: 2026 is rolling in here fast, and I'm sure we'll be checking in with you on a daily basis. Mark Preston, it's always a pleasure to have you. Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: With us now, Meghan Hays, the former White House Director of Message Planning under President Biden, and Republican strategist, former RNC Communications Director, Doug Heye.

Meghan, interestingly enough, perhaps not surprisingly, some younger Democrats are saying this is a generational thing. I want you to listen to relatively younger Democrat Ro Khanna from California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): The American people are fed up with the old guard. There needs to be a renewal. You know, in Silicon Valley, when a company isn't doing well, you don't keep the same team.

And I think there's going to be a new generation in this country. They want to see a more compelling economic message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: New, new, new. Meghan, how do you do that?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: You know, I think that Chuck Schumer should take Nancy Pelosi's lead from 21 and figure out an exit plan here. I think it is time for a new generation of leaders in the Democratic Party. I think that he's right that there needs to be a new economic message.

There are things that are facing my generation and people younger than me that we're not facing their generation, and I think that people need to look at that. Also, Democrats are not where the rest of the country is, and if we want to win again, we need to meet people where they are, and we need to see what people are really talking about and really struggling with, and that is not inside the beltway.

BERMAN: It is interesting, Doug, because Chuck Schumer's constituency, yes, he's a senator from New York, but in terms of being a leader, his constituency, the Democrats in the actual Senate, right, who so far seem to be behind him still, at least enough, and also people like New York Governor Kathy Hochul, who I actually spoke to last week and said, I don't want Chuck Schumer to go anywhere. Look at everything he's brought in from New York as Senate leader. What do you think?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN HEYE: Well, you've got different constituencies there. As the senator from New York, when you're in leadership, you're able to deliver a whole lot more for your home state, but Chuck Schumer has very real political problems at home as well. In his last election, he lost Long Island for the first time, so he's not in a place of comfort politically back home.

Clearly, his audience within the Senate still backs him, but Democrats are in this place right now where they have to figure out who they are and what they want to be. That's not easy to do when you're out in the wilderness like this, and I watched the interview with Ro Khanna yesterday. I watch Dana Bash every Sunday, of course, and one thing that I heard him say, which is a real trap for Democrats, and Republicans have been there as well, he said, well, we need to fight harder.

Fight is a word that I heard so many times at House Republican conference meetings. We just need to fight more. Fighting more, fighting harder, isn't a strategy to land a punch, knock down your opponent, win a round, and ultimately win that fight that you're spoiling for. You have to figure out these strategies and tactics that can work.

BERMAN: Doug Sosnik and Axios -- this morning, Doug Sosnik, of course, big-time advisor to a lot of Democrats, including senior advisor to President Clinton, told Axios this is Democrats' deepest hole in the last 45 years since Ronald Reagan's victory in 1980. Sosnik said the 2024 election was at least as much a repudiation -- repudiation -- he wrote it correctly and said it correctly, I didn't -- of Democrats as it was a victory for Trump.

You know, Meghan, do you think it's that bad, as Sosnik says it is?

HAYS: I do. I just think that Democrats have gone too far to the left. We don't understand where the rest of the country is, and we don't understand -- we need to get back to where our base message is, and that is kitchen table issues and fighting for the American people and working-class people. And I just think that until Democrats realize that and stop infighting with each other and get on board with a real message, we are not going to be able to do exactly what Doug said, come up with a strategy and tactics. Those are things that you need to do and fighting with each other is not going to win votes.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting, Doug, is in a way you've been where Democrats are in the past, working in the Republican Party apparatus at what were considered low points for the Republican Party when Barack Obama --

HEYE: Hey, thanks.

BERMAN: -- well, not because of you. No State of the Union fan is responsible for any drubbing. But when Republicans were beaten badly in the polls, I wonder what lessons you took from those low points, whether it be, you know, 2008 or 2012, and what opportunities you see Donald Trump perhaps giving Democrats right now.

HEYE: Yes, the first one is things are never as bleak as I think you portray them to be, not you personally, obviously, but the media and within the own Democratic Party. In 2009, Barack Obama was at 70 percent approval, and Time Magazine had the Republican elephant logo on its cover and said, Endangered Species. 18 months later, we took back the House, right?

[08:10:04]

And so if we look at what happened in this past election, Kamala Harris only lost by several, you know, tens of thousands of votes, not millions of votes. Democrats are three seats shy in the Senate, just a handful of seats in the House. They certainly could take back the House next election, but they're talking about how this is the worst position they've ever been in, right?

Donald Trump didn't get to 50 percent. Kamala Harris lost by like 1.4 percent. Democrats should not try and burn their own house down. They have a foundation if they can fine-tune their messaging and get back to talking about those things that families are talking about and dealing with every day. And I would tell you, despite large crowds, fighting oligarchs is not that message.

BERMAN: Yes, interesting to see how that plays out. Again, also interesting to look forward and see what happens with the economy, because that may be the determining factor in all of this. Meghan Hays, Doug Heye, thanks to both of you --Kate.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right. Oh, wait, there is also that to keep an eye on.

New CNN reporting this morning, an alleged top member of the MS-13 gang and the United States quietly dropping charges and returning him to the pro-Trump leader of El Salvador. Why former federal agents now call this move a historical loss for the United States.

And the second lady, Usha Vance, is headed to Greenland. The White House says it is a cultural visit. The leaders of Greenland then are asking, why then is Trump's national security advisor also coming?

And genetic testing site 23andMe filing for bankruptcy, what this means for your genetic data and why one attorney general is now issuing a consumer warning.

[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Breaking news coming in overnight. A flight carrying Venezuelan migrants deported from the United States, it has now landed in Venezuela. This comes after Venezuela and the United States agreed to resume deportation flights. Nearly 200 of them on that plane.

This morning, there's also new CNN reporting to bring to you. We're learning the United States quietly dropped charges against a key alleged MS-13 leader and returned him to El Salvador in a deal that could benefit that country's pro-Trump leader.

CNN's Evan Perez is tracking this one for us. And Evan, this has all to do also with Donald Trump's focus on immigration -- and his immigration policy and cracking down on immigration and deporting people from the country. Tell us more of what you're learning.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Kate. Look, the government has kind of had a lot of secrecy about this third plane that took off. Of course, we know there's been a lot of controversy over whether the government exceeded, the president exceeded his authority in sending these immigrants to serve time in prison in El Salvador.

And in this case, on that third plane was Cesar Lopez-Larios. He is, according to the Justice Department, a top former leader of MS-13, the gang, of course, that has been accused of carrying out murders and drug trafficking, human trafficking from here through El Salvador and to Mexico.

And when we've talked to some of the agents who've worked on these cases, one of the things that they say is that returning him to El Salvador represents a big potential loss for intelligence because they were hoping that one of the things that would come from him, he was facing charges in Brooklyn, was information about how MS-13 operations work from here through El Salvador and also in Mexico. How did they make inroads with the cartels there to be able to do some of their work?

And again, for investigators, they were hoping that this guy could flip up and perhaps help them learn more about MS-13's operations.

BOLDUAN: But, Evan, there's also agents that you're speaking to. They also think that there is potentially much more at play here beyond what you just said.

PEREZ: Right, exactly. They believe that the reason why Nayib Bukele, who is the president of El Salvador, and has become something of a star in conservative circles here in the United States, that one of the reasons why he wanted this guy and some of the MS-13 leaders who are being sent back was because he wants to make sure that that information that he has does not implicate members of his own government. This is something that has been laid out in U.S. court documents

against MS-13 leaders. I'll read you just a part of one passage here that describes a deal, essentially, made between MS-13 gang leaders and the government of Bukele.

It says here, in quote, In exchange for working with the government, MS-13 leaders agreed to reduce the number of public murders in El Salvador, which politically benefited the government of El Salvador by creating the perception that the government was reducing the murder rate when, in fact, MS-13 leaders continue to authorize murders where the victims' bodies were buried or otherwise hidden.

And what it goes on to say, there's a treasury sanctions against two members of Bukele's government. And one of the things that this says is that the government essentially provided prostitutes and cell phones. The gang could continue to operate from behind prison walls, and in exchange, they supported the government's actions -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: And a historical loss, potentially, as your reporting brings to us, from agents for the United States in all of this. Great reporting, Evan. There's a lot in there for people to look at today. Thank you so much -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, this morning, the family of a Georgia mother of five is mourning her death.

[08:20:00]

The case promising to turn into a political talking point because we are learning the man accused of killing her was in the country illegally.

And right now, another round of Ukrainian peace talks underway as American envoy meets with Russian officials to try to iron out the details of a possible limited ceasefire, but his words catching the ire of many because they are so close to Russian talking points. We'll talk about that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Happening now, high-stakes talks over a potential ceasefire in Ukraine. U.S. negotiators sitting down with Russian officials in Saudi Arabia a day after meeting separately with the Ukrainian delegation. But it comes as critics accuse President Trump's foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, of repeating Kremlin talking points over the weekend.

Joining me now, our CNN contributor Jill Dougherty. She is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University and our former and most wonderful and knowledgeable Moscow bureau chief. Thank you so much for being here.

[08:25:00]

First, I want to, you know, you're a Russophile. You have studied Russia for decades. I want you to listen to and then respond to what U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff said during an interview about Ukrainians wanting to be Russian. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: It got personal. President Putin had commissioned a beautiful portrait of President Trump from the leading Russian artist and actually gave it to me and asked me to take it home to President Trump. And told me a story, Tucker, about how when the president was shot, he went to his local church and met with his priest and prayed for the president, not because he was the president of the United -- he could become the president of the United States, but because he had a friendship with him and he was praying for his friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: OK, I'm so sorry. That is the wrong soundbite. What he actually started talking about was that there were certain regions of Ukraine that he said spoke Russian and want to be part of Russia, which are literally Russian talking points.

So what -- I mean, these are Russian talking points, correct?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, they are in the sense that many people, you know, especially the Russians would say and President Putin would say, those territories -- and what they're referring to are four territories Russia has taken in this war, plus Crimea, but especially those four territories should belong to Russia because the people speak Russian and because they identify with Russia.

Now, if you look at those points, number one, yes, many people do speak Russian, but many people in Ukraine in general speak Russian. It really doesn't define, you know, where your political beliefs are.

And then the other problem with this is that those four regions asked -- supposedly asked to become part of Russia, and they had referenda. But those referenda were not recognized by most of the outside world. They were considered fraudulent.

So, you know, do they want to be part of Russia? Dubious. And the language factor really doesn't have anything to do with it.

SIDNER: Right. I was in Odesa where they speak -- a lot of people spoke Russian, and I remember specifically people starting to speak Ukrainian because they were so disgusted with what Russia had done, bombing some of that beautiful seaside town.

So there's another issue, and you heard it there in the interview with Tucker Carlson, Steve Witkoff praising Putin and eventually saying he's going to take Putin for his word.

Why would you take Putin for his word, who has already broken many promises that he made vis-a-vis Ukraine, and he's a former KGB operative?

DOUGHERTY: Well, yes, that quote that we had there a minute ago does remind me of 25 years ago when President Putin, you know, the president 25 years ago, said to George W. Bush, you know, I had a cross that was given to me by my mother, and I wore it around my neck, and then we had a fire in our house, and boy, you know, I couldn't find that cross. I sent my aide back in, and amidst the ashes, I found that cross, and it was really, really important to me.

Now, I would never want to take anybody's inventory when it comes to their religious beliefs, but I would say that is a story that is designed to influence the other person, namely the president of the United States.

So, you know, I think the problem here is that Steve Witkoff may be trying, you know, to get a deal, but the comments that he's making are very complimentary to Putin and actually hasn't made recently too many comments about Zelenskyy, but we all know what happened in the Oval Office.

So I think, you know, being a balanced intermediary and a mediator trying to pull people together, when you have these comments, yes, I believe that Putin wants peace, yes, he's genuine, that type of thing, it does, I would say, unbalance the image of being really dispassionate.

SIDNER: Yes, it's a lot of carrots and so far no sticks. We will see what happens going forward. This has a lot of Ukrainians very, very concerned.

Jill Dougherty, it is always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much. Appreciate you -- John.

BERMAN: Highly aggressive. That is what the prime minister of Greenland is calling a planned visit by U.S. envoys as President Trump promises to get the island one way or another.

And quote, truly the worst portrait. President Trump demanding a painting of him be removed because he finds it unflattering.

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