Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

DHS Secretary Noem Arrives in El Salvador Ahead of Prison Tour; New Video Shows Arrest of Tufts University Student from Turkey; FEMA in Turmoil as Trump Officials Vow to Eliminate the Agency. Aired 3:30- 4p ET

Aired March 26, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: So, right now, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem is in El Salvador as part of a three-day trip to Latin America, and she arrived in the country's capital just moments ago. The secretary is going to spend part of her day touring a notorious mega-prison that's housing alleged Venezuelan gang members that have been deported by the Trump administration.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: And joining us now to discuss CNN senior national correspondent David Culver and former acting director of ICE, John Sandweg. Good to have both of you with us. So, David, first of all, give us a sense.

She's going to visit this prison. It's going to be a very curated tour, obviously. What will she be seeing, and who will she be seeing?

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, these are highly choreographed visits, and this is not a tour that's offered to many people. I mean, we were able to get it late last year after having months of back and forth with President Bukele's team and trying to get a sense of what we would see when we go forward with a tour like that. And then they finally granted it to us.

So what the secretary is about to see, and I think she's a few minutes away from going straight to CECOT. That's what it's called. It stands for the Terrorism Confinement Center there in El Salvador, and it's about an hour and a half outside the capital.

But she'll go in, and there's only one way in, and there's only one way out. And they go through every single person, no exceptions, a pretty intense and rigorous security check. Then they'll be taken through really the show of force, and that's where they're brought into an armory.

They're shown what essentially is where 1,000-plus police, military, and guards are able to arm themselves, should there be some sort of insurrection within the mega-prison or -- and this is really interesting -- should there be an attempt to break out any prisoners, so they're able to defend themselves as though it is a fortress, essentially, and protect from the outside going in.

And then she'll be taken into one of the sectors. Now, the sectors are essentially, think of an airplane hangar size. There's eight of those, and they contain some 24 cells. These are jumbo cells, if you will. You've got 80-plus inmates per cell.

They have these metal bunk beds, no sheets, no mattresses, no privacy. They've got a big water basin made out of cement that they bathe in. They've got a couple of toilets. And then they've got a water jug that they're able to get drinking water out of. It's all very simple, and it's meant to push back against the lavish lifestyle that officials there say many of the prisoners were able to enjoy in the pre-Bukele days, and the days in which gangs really were able to run much of El Salvador. So this is a tour that'll likely last about an hour.

I'll be curious, though, Erica and Boris, to see if she'll actually get to see some of the Venezuelan deportees that left the U.S., and if she'll be brought into that sector, or who exactly she'll be able to come face-to-face with.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we'll see how much of her visit we actually get to witness.

John, talk to us about the diplomatic dynamics here, because they're a bit complicated. You have President Bukele, who is being paid by the United States to house these largely Venezuelan migrants, in part because it's so difficult for the U.S. to deport these migrants back to Venezuela, given that fraught relationship. You also have Maduro of Venezuela calling Bukele an accomplice in a kidnapping. Sort all of that out.

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ICE ACTING DIRECTOR: Boris, I'll tell you, I've never seen anything like this. Typically, as you know, in a deportation, we're taking people back to their home country.

There are times when we take people for reasons they can't go back to their home country. They can go to a third country, but typically that's with the consent of the immigrant. What we saw here, though, was a mass deportation to El Salvador of Venezuelans.

And I think what's really stunning here is that it was done with an understanding and an arrangement that once they arrive, they'll be incarcerated. And the problem there is that raises so many legal questions in the U.S.

[15:35:00]

A lot of the court cases have been focusing on what processes do, from an immigration perspective, whether or not they got the same due process that all migrants get before they're deported. But really now, we're wondering, what is the status of them in El Salvador? And I think the courts are going to start looking at these questions.

Are they being imprisoned there? Were they charged with a crime there? Was this an extradition?

If so, there is a process in the United States. You get a hearing before you're extradited. Or are they being held as an agent? Is El Salvador acting as an agent of the United States? You know, the government has alleged state secrets. They don't want to talk anymore about the details of this arrangement.

But I think as these court cases go forward, those are the central questions the court is going to have to get answers to. Because it's not just a diplomatic mess, but it's also a real legal mess in many ways as well.

HILL: Well, and speaking to that point, the fact that you have all of these people now in this prison in El Salvador, depending on what the ruling is here, the reality is they're not here any longer. So then how is that enforced?

SANDWEG: Well, ultimately, I think that boils down to -- I think what's interesting about Secretary Noem's visit today is during the first Trump administration, we'd see all the time the president would say something that contradicted the position that the DOJ was taking in court. In some ways, I wonder if this visit isn't a bad idea for her. Does it create more of a sense that we are in control, that El Salvador is serving as our agent, that basically this is like, you know, ICE uses a lot of private detention contractors. And so people are housed in a private detention facility, but ICE is in charge.

Is the United States in charge? But I don't think it's crazy to think we get to a point in the litigation where the court directs the U.S. officials to seek and demand the return of these individuals or makes a finding that El Salvador is actually operating as a U.S. agent, as a contractor, if you will, of the United States.

SANCHEZ: Backing up to your point, John, about questions of due process, obviously adjudicating immigration status is a civil issue and figuring out whether someone is a criminal in the sense that they're a gang member, they've been part of some kind of violent act, that's a criminal matter. According to several immigration attorneys, these folks were singled out through social media posts that showed them doing some sort of hand signals and also tattoos. There was one man specifically who was a former professional soccer player that alleged that he had a tattoo of a Real Madrid-looking logo on his arm and that he -- I think he was going like this in a Facebook post.

I mean, fundamentally, is that migrant entitled to make that case before a judge, before they're deported?

SANDWEG: Well, that's certainly what the district court found, right, is that they are entitled to make that case, that there needs to be some process. I'll tell you, Boris, ICE does a lot of gang work. We do prioritize -- ICE does prioritize gangs. They go out -- but how you identify gang members is always tricky. It's very hard. You talk to anyone who's worked at ICE, they'll tell you it can be very challenging.

There are going to be cases where it's part of a larger criminal investigation, where maybe ICE has used undercover informants or is doing wiretaps and doing more sophisticated criminal operations, but chose, rather than doing a prosecution, said, we'll just deport the individual instead. So some of those, in those cases, you get a very high-quality intelligence. But unfortunately, a lot of times, a gang membership is done by the tactics you're describing, tattoos and, you know, or just associations or Facebook posts, things of that nature.

Typically, however, your deportation does not hinge on gang membership. It's oftentimes ancillary. The question in the immigration court is typically, do you have papers? Do you have status in this country? Do you have a criminal conviction?

Of course, now this is different, right? The sole basis of the deportation is gang membership. So these are all really challenging questions, and I think when you complicate that with the fact that we don't know how long they're being held in El Salvador, what if this is a five-year prison term? Now it's not just the immigration due process, but have we also violated potentially the Fifth Amendment, the Sixth Amendment, right to counsel, right to a jury trial?

Just those basic criminal rights, that basic due process that everybody's entitled to.

HILL: A lot of important questions still waiting to be answered. John, David, appreciate it. Thank you both.

A brand new video into CNN shows ICE agents taking a Turkish grad student from Tufts University into custody just blocks from her home. Her attorney says there are no charges against her. That story is next.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: This just into CNN, some chilling video. It shows the moment that a Tufts University grad student from Turkey is arrested and taken into ICE custody. An attorney for the student, Rumeysa Ozturk, says she was on her way to meet friends for dinner last night when she was suddenly surrounded by plainclothes officers.

SANCHEZ: Let's bring in CNN's Gloria Pazmino, who's tracking all of this. Gloria, what happened?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, we are looking at really disturbing video if you watch it from the beginning. It's several minutes and it was actually captured by a neighbor's doorbell camera. And what you're seeing there is Rumeysa Ozturk. She is a Turkish national who is a graduate student at Tufts University.

At the beginning of the video, you can see that there are several cars parked in this area. Then as she enters the frame, you can see that officers approach her. They surround her. She tries to engage with them. And in the video, you can hear the officers say, we are the police.

They don't seem to state any other reason for why they are detaining her. They then put her in handcuffs. They remove her backpack. And then you're going to see the moment in which they lead her away and put her into an SUV and drive off.

Now, I have been speaking to her attorney in the last hour who has told me that she still does not know where Rumeysa was removed to or where she is being held in custody.

[15:45:00]

Now, I just want to go back and kind of, you know, this is the first time that we are seeing really kind of, you know, live in the moment video of how these arrests are unfolding. We know that several international students have been targeted for immigration enforcement in the last several weeks, Mahmoud Khalil, the Columbia University student, being the most prominent one so far, but we've seen targeted enforcement in other cases.

And now we're seeing video of how these operations appear to be unfolding. Here's what we know about Rumeysa so far. She is a graduate student at Tufts University. We don't have any information at this time yet of what kind of charges, if any, she is facing. In fact, her attorney has told us that she has not been informed about the reason why she was detained.

We do know that back in March of 2024, she, along with other students at Tufts University, published an op ed in which she was critical of the university leadership for not being supportive of students who were speaking out on behalf of Palestinians and on the Palestinian issue.

So what we have here is some evidence that this person has at least been vocal in some way on the Palestinian-Israel-Hamas war issue. And now we're seeing this video of her being taken into custody. Her lawyer has told me that the images are extremely concerning and the fact that she doesn't know where she is being held, also very concerning.

Her lawyer has filed a motion with the court in Massachusetts, where this happened in Boston, to make sure that her deportation, if there's going to be a deportation proceeding, can be stopped.

So we are waiting to learn more about the details. But for now, this just really kind of shocking video of watching those officers as they approach her. They're wearing masks. Some of them have sunglasses on. Just really concerning to the lawyers and the advocate community in Boston who is highlighting this arrest.

There is a protest that is planned later this evening to bring attention to this latest detention.

HILL: Yes, and still, as you point out, Gloria, a lot of unanswered questions. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Just ahead here, FEMA under fire. The agency that Americans look to in a moment of crisis and disaster could be eliminated under President Trump. Top officials meeting to discuss the future of FEMA. We'll take a closer look at what they're considering next.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: With the start of hurricane season just around the corner, a major warning from a FEMA official. We're not preparing. Multiple officials telling CNN the agency is in turmoil. They say freezes on grant funds and also on hiring have left them unprepared to respond to disasters. All this, it should be noted, was happening before Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem announced on Monday a plan to eliminate FEMA altogether.

CNN correspondent Gabe Cohen joins me now has been following these developments. So we're not preparing. We're not planning. FEMA's going away.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the bottom line, Erica, here is that it appears that the process of dismantling FEMA is underway. You mentioned that meeting of top officials that happened yesterday that included Secretary Noem and FEMA's acting administrator, where they talked about the future of the agency. But specifically the potential of shutting it down or at least stripping away huge pieces of it in just the next few months.

We've also learned that just last week, an internal memo went out saying that most of FEMA's workforce, including the vast majority of the workers who actually go out in the field and help communities during the disasters, they are going to at the end of their contracts -- because they work on these individual two to four year contracts -- they're going to have to be individually approved by Secretary Noem's team in order to stay on the job if they want to stay on the job.

HILL: Each person.

COHEN: Each person individually. Thousands of them. Thousands.

HILL: Do you know how many people that is.

COHEN: Thousands. I think roughly 9,000, if I'm not mistaken. But it is a lot for an agency that's already understaffed, by the way. And there is concern among several FEMA officials I've spoken with that it seems to be a tactic to potentially cut down FEMA's workforce very quickly.

Remember, these field crews, these are the ones who are supposed to this time of year be preparing for hurricane season just weeks away. Instead, I'm told by sources that trainings have been paused, that they have struggled to have the same level of communication with their state partners. And instead, they've been focused so much of their time on just trying to make sure these teams can stay intact and deployable ahead of storm season.

I want to read you a quote that a FEMA official said to me. They said, quote: It is already having an impact, which is that we're not preparing. It's now a fear of what else are we able to get back to work and focus? Our feeling is, no, there will be something else that will pop up that's going to require a lot of our attention.

So there's that concern about preparing for hurricane season. As all of that is unfolding, I've also learned that there is more than $100 billion in grant money and disaster relief that right now is sitting essentially frozen at FEMA because they've been waiting on guidance because the staff there doesn't want to violate Trump's executive orders on immigration funding.

The issue is we're not talking about immigration funding. This is money that is supposed to go to the communities hit by Hurricane Helene, by the wildfires in California, local fire departments.

We know that FEMA now has gotten that guidance. The question is, how long is it going to take to go through that long backlog and be able to deliver those resources?

[15:55:02]

HILL: Like you said, $100 billion.

COHEN: Yes.

HILL: Wow!

COHEN: And by the way, if I can add, I reached out to FEMA for comment. They didn't respond to my questions. All I got was a quote from a spokesperson saying, we're grateful that the press is covering Secretary Noem's efforts to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse within the Department of Homeland Security.

HILL: Well, I'm grateful you're on it too, Gabe, because there is clearly much more to come on this. Thank you.

COHEN: Thank you.

HILL: Just ahead, a lot more, including a little coffee. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: If maybe you think you like a healthy dose of caffeine in the morning, actor Pedro Pascal says, oh, my coffee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE: This was a viral thing. They got your coffee order and then zeroed in on an insane order, by the way. Six -- is that six extra shots or six total shots? In one cup of coffee.

PEDRO PASCAL, ACTOR: I cannot -- I cannot begin to tell you how violating this was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: He says sipping one mega shot helps him with his productivity.

Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon. Stay tuned, "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END