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Rep. Jimmy Gomez (D-CA) is Interviewed about Questions over Hegseth; Tufts University Student Detained; Alexander Vindman is Interviewed about the Singal Chat Fallout. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 27, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Sixteen, 17, 14. Joe Biden's picks were not, in fact, poll (ph) but less than 40 percent disapproved in separate Pew polling.

So, the bottom line is, even going into this, there was already a lot of skepticism about Donald Trump's picks for his cabinet, for his appointments. There's no doubt, in my mind, that this number will almost certainly tick a little bit upwards, because we already were dealing with a public that was quite skeptical. This story can only make things worse, Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: What about Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary, specifically?

ENTEN: Yes, obviously he's very much in the middle of this story. And I was interested -

BOLDUAN: Despite what the member of Congress just tried to tell John.

ENTEN: Despite what some Trump defenders try to say. If you were to speak to Spider Marks, for example, he would absolutely say that Pete Hegseth was right in the middle.

And again, what you see here was the most unpopular defense secretary going all the way back - you have to go all the way back to Donald Rumsfeld, who, of course, was basically kind of forced out a little bit back in 2006. The unfavorable rating for Pete Hegseth, 42 percent, compared to this favorable rating, that was only 30 percent. Many more Americans disliked Pete Hegseth coming into the scandal than liked him. Again, skeptical, skeptical, skeptical public. They're only going to probably become more skeptical.

BOLDUAN: And seeing how, again, seeing where they begin and how it evolves as we continue to cover it. That's why -

ENTEN: We'll track it.

BOLDUAN: We appreciate you here.

Great, thank you so much, Harry. Coming up for us, drug dealers are often blamed for the fentanyl

crisis, largely, but one dealer agreed to speak with us on camera to tell his side of the story. We have a new preview for you from my two- year investigation into this crisis and the threat that is ever evolving. That's next.

And we also have new details on secret messages being sent to murder suspect Luigi Mangione, even in his socks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:19]

BOLDUAN: This morning, prosecutors in the Idaho college murder case are looking to use now the suspect's own written words against him. They're trying to enter into evidence, we have now learned, a 2020 paper, academic paper, that was written by Bryan Kohberger while he was a grad student. In it, Kohberger discusses a case involving another fatal stabbing, a fatal stabbing of a 35-year-old woman, and how he would have worked the crime scene if he was the investigator. It is not clear whether the case described in the paper is hypothetical or real, or to what extent prosecutors would use it. Still, they are trying to get it entered into evidence to potentially use against him in their case. His trial is set to begin in August.

In a new filing also, prosecutors in New York are now saying Luigi Mangione's legal team has, quote/unquote, "fanned the flames" of publicity in his murder case, writing that Mangione's defense team gave him a green sweatshirt to wear to his court appearances that was, quote - another quote for you, "consistent with what his sympathizers were calling for supporters to wear." They also raised questions about a bag of clothing his lawyers gave him before a court appearance that included socks with heart-shaped notes of support. Mangione did not end up wearing those socks to court. Not entirely sure why that detail is so important. But still, Mangione is accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in December, sparking that days long wild manhunt.

So, there's also this. President Trump had a meeting with state governors last month. During it, he pushed the governors to enact the death penalty against drug dealers.

Now, drug dealers have been at the center of the fentanyl crisis, largely seen as being to blame for the historic number of fatal drug overdoses. But one drug dealer agreed to go on camera with us to tell his side of the story. What you're about to watch is an excerpt from my special project, two years in the making, set to air this Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in the heart of north Philadelphia.

ON SCREEN TEXT: In northern Philadelphia, a predominantly black and Hispanic community, fentanyl has been detected in stimulants like crack cocaine for the past decade.

BOLDUAN: How old were you when you started dealing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twelve. I'm 35 now.

BOLDUAN: I mean, you got into this when you were -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young.

BOLDUAN: A child yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. My mom was a drug addict. So, you know, certain shit was inevitable.

BOLDUAN: Do you - you use too?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I used to. I'm recovering. Like, I'm a recovering addict. I like to acknowledge that because that shit is hard. You feel what I'm saying?

BOLDUAN: You know, people paint drug dealers as, I don't know, you call them a boogeyman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I know. I know.

BOLDUAN: You call it - you know, you're -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. I know how they thinks.

BOLDUAN: You are the bad guy. So, why did you want to talk to me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I want people to know our story. We (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up our head. We don't sell drugs because we want to. We sell that shit because it's the only time we ever seen (EXPLETIVE DELETED) where we come from get rich.

BOLDUAN: Do you know if anyone's died from any of the drugs that you've sold them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. And I'm going to keep it real. I - I wouldn't want to know if they did, because that - that shit is hurtful.

[08:40:04]

Even though we know what we do.

BOLDUAN: What do you sell?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't got no specific shit. Like I don't touch everything from pills, ice, coke, weed.

BOLDUAN: You know the view is that the dealers are pushing the fentanyl into the supply because it's cheaper, it's stronger, it's more addictive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you might got some people who do, like, you feel what I'm saying? BOLDUAN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I'm just going to keep it real. I don't (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with them type of people because I know who they're giving it to. They're giving it to us.

BOLDUAN: Do you trust your supplier?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. But still, like, he may not know who he getting it from. Like, how much precaution do you take when you get it from where you get it from?

BOLDUAN: What kind of precautions do you take for the stuff you buy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I test it now. I'm a little bit older than a lot of the dudes out in the streets, so my level of consciousness is different now. Say I make a mistake and sell him something. He died because I sold him some shit and it was laced with something. Going to jail for the rest of my natural black ass life because I'm black and he's white. I understand how this shit go.

ON SCREEN TEXT: CNN spoke to another drug dealer who says he tests his supply for illicit fentanyl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every single time I grab, I test. Every time.

I have received a large amount of crack cocaine, did contain some fentanyl in it.

This drug is crack cocaine. We take my test strip. Stab it into the water. If it was to have one line, it would come back positive for fentanyl. Two lines, then it means it's negative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: There's a lot more to this. More nuance, more complexity to the fentanyl crisis at large that is now evolving. And you can learn more about Anthony and his story this Sunday, "Fentanyl in America: A Way Out." It airs on CNN's "Whole Story," presented by Anderson Cooper, Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, I know you said you've been working on this for two years. That's no joke. I mean, you've been working on this for two years solid. And just the stories that you've come back with are stunning, are just stunning. And you poured your heart into it. And this is a really important thing. So -

BOLDUAN: Very courageous, a lot of these people coming forward to speak at this time.

BERMAN: I look forward to seeing this in full Sunday night.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Great work.

All right, masked federal agents seize a graduate student with a valid visa off the streets. The new questions about why she is being held.

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[08:47:02]

BERMAN: All right, some super tense moments when a Democratic congressman pursued a certain line of questioning with CIA Director John Ratcliffe about Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and his sharing of sensitive attack plans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIMMY GOMEZ (D-CA): To your knowledge, do you know whether Pete Hegseth had been drinking before he leaked classified information?

TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I don't have any knowledge of Secretary Hegseth's personal habits.

JOHN RATCLIFFE, CIA DIRECTOR: You know, no, I'm going to answer that. I think that's an offensive line of questioning. The answer is, no. I find it interesting that you want to -

GOMEZ: Hey, I yield back.

RATCLIFFE: No, I - no, I'm going to answer -

GOMEZ: This is my time. Director -

RATCLIFFE: You - you asked me a question. Do you want an answer?

GOMEZ: No. Listen, that's a yes or no.

RATCLIFFE: You don't want to focus on the good work that the CIA is doing, that the intelligence community -

GOMEZ: No. Director, I reclaim my time.

RATCLIFFE: You want to talk about -

GOMEZ: Director, I reclaim my time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And Congressman Jimmy Gomez of California joins us now.

Congressman, thanks for being with us.

Why do you ask that question?

REP. JIMMY GOMEZ (D-CA): Well, I asked that question because it was on top of a lot of constituents. This is an issue that was brought up during Secretary Hegseth's confirmation hearing, to an extent that he had to make a promise not to drink if he was confirmed. That is a big deal. I've never had to promise to not drink on the job. I don't think you had to make - ever make that promise. That's something that's obvious that you don't do.

And here's the fact. The decision for him to put a war plans on a Signal chat that's not secure, hours before the operation, risked lives, risked lives. So, one, you either don't know that it's not a secure app. Two, you don't know that the Chinese and Russians are on your phone. Three, you don't care. Or four, you lower - your - somehow your inhibitions were lowered and your decision making was compromised. I just need to try to find out what's the fact, because our men and women deserve better.

BERMAN: Well, look, I think there are a lot of questions about why the defense secretary felt comfortable posting such sensitive, specific information on Signal. And whether it is an appropriate place ever by anyone to post that. But you - you had no specific knowledge or even tangential knowledge or a whiff of the idea that he had been drinking. You were just fishing there, correct?

GOMEZ: No, it was - it was a question that I wanted to ask because the what's going on and what happened doesn't make sense at any level. They're - they first denied that it occurred. Then they said, no, it's not classified information that wasn't released. Then they all of a sudden - the screenshots of the conversation were released. So, none of this makes sense. It doesn't pass the smell test. They're trying to cover for Secretary Hegseth, and it's shameful. They should just be straight and stop lying to the American people.

BERMAN: It's not often that I - that I quote "The Onion," but I do want to put a picture and a headline up from them because it gets to a little bit of a notion, a little bit of frustration among Democrats with Democratic leaders over the last few weeks up until this point.

[08:50:10]

And it's a picture, you can see, of Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, and the headline says "Democrats huddle to decide how best to let massive Republican blank-up slip through their fingers."

What's your view of how Democrats have been responding to this, as Marco Rubio calls it, big mistake, from the administration? And what more do you think is appropriate to ask for?

GOMEZ: I think the Democrats need to stay focused, talk about what could have happened if the Chinese and the Russians tipped off the Houthis if they had that information. We need to - because this would have been severe consequences.

People who have kids in the military always worry about their children who are serving in our armed forces. So, we got to stay focused on that. We also have to ask the questions, but also keep bringing it up.

Here's the thing, I know for a fact that the - the guy from Barstool Sports said, this doesn't make sense. Somebody has to get fired. And that - I believe that that person that should be fired is Secretary Hegseth. I think that it was inappropriate to put that information on the Signal chat, and it's time for him to go.

BERMAN: We have - one question based on some breaking news we're just getting. CNN has learned that Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. plans to cut 10,000 jobs at his agency, which is a - is a pretty big cut. Now, it's not clear to me exactly right now where those cuts would come from. But based on that limited information, I wonder if I can get your reaction.

GOMEZ: This is what this administration has been doing. They don't think. They just try to act with speed. But that actually could cost people their lives. He's going to eliminate 10,000 jobs. They don't say, OK, who, where, what, what did they do? Remember, this is the same group that laid off people who were responsible for our nuclear weapons systems. They laid them off, and then they had to hire them back on.

So, this is just more of the same carelessness, irresponsibility, lack of transparency that is going to hurt the American public.

BERMAN: Congressman Jimmy Gomez, from California, I do appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: This morning, a Tufts University graduate student is waking up in a detention facility in Louisiana. She was arrested by federal agents outside an off campus apartment on Tuesday in Boston, and security video shows the moment that she was taken into custody by federal agents. Her name is Rumeysa Ozturk. She's from Turkey, a Fulbright scholar and a Ph.D. student. Her attorney says she has a valid visa, but the school now says they were told her visa status has been terminated. DHS says she, quote, "engaged in activities in support of Hamas." And her attorney calls those claims wild accusations. Last year she co-authored an op-ed in the school's newspaper criticizing Tufts' response to the pro-Palestinian movement.

CNN's John Miller is here with much more on this.

And there seems to be much more to learn about this.

First, on the arrest. What do you see in that video, John?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the first thing you notice is, you've got six agents approaching her. And when they make contact with her, they all pull up face masks. That is unusual in American law enforcement when they're acting lawfully and properly. Some tactical teams do it. But this is a routine arrest.

BOLDUAN: Then also, what are - what are you hearing? I mean I read one quote that they've - they've not said publicly, DHS, in terms of a spokesperson, given a lot of detail quite yet, just the one that I read there. What are you hearing from Homeland Security officials?

MILLER: Well, first, they're defending the use of masks by agents making these arrests.

BOLDUAN: OK.

MILLER: They say, "when our heroic law enforcement officers conduct operations, they clearly identify themselves as police while wearing masks to protect themselves from being targeted by known and suspected terrorist sympathizers."

Now, that sounds a little hyperbolic. What they're probably talking about is demonstrators and protesters have had a habit of doxing agents that they could identify, harassing them online or at home. Still, the rub here is, these students so far have not been charged with a crime of supporting a terrorist organization. They've been charged with what - for anybody who was not here on a visa would have been 100 percent constitutionally protected protest activities. And this is going to be the rub in these discussions, which is, when these things get to court, if being here as a student is a privilege, and it is on that visa, do you lose constitutional rights that would be available to anybody else who was here?

[08:55:02]

BOLDUAN: Is it clear what is next then in this case?

MILLER: Well, it's hard to say because the first thing they do is take them into custody.

BOLDUAN: Right.

MILLER: They don't notify them that you have a hearing and we're going to litigate this. The second thing they do is they send them to Louisiana, which puts them far away from their legal representation and makes it hard to stay in touch. So, the question is, will they be out of the country or will this get to court first? But we're going to have to watch how this is going to play out.

BOLDUAN: This isn't the first one.

MILLER: Because it's going to dictate, you know, how the future is going to go for these other cases.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right.

John, thanks so much. It's good to see you.

MILLER: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth took no questions on the attack plans he posted in that unsecured group chat. One Defense Department source tells CNN the detailed information was included in documents that were marked as classified - no, what this person said was, they had seen other documents that had that information that were marked classified. With us now is retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman. He's the

former director for European affairs at the National Security Council. He's also the author of the new book, "The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself about Russia and Betrayed Ukraine."

Colonel, thanks so much for being with us.

You know, one question that's been out there is, what if someone in the military posted this type of information? When you saw this as a veteran, how did it make you feel?

LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN (RET.), FORMER DIRECTOR FOR EUROPEAN AFFAIRS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: They would suspend their - thanks for having me on, John.

They would suspend their security clearance and conduct an investigation. More than likely, they would lose their security clearance and therefore they would lose their job and have derogatory information. And the standards don't decrease when you go up the chain of command, they should increase. It's a higher standard.

My concern here is that there's a bit of sleight of hand with regards to how these things are being described, that these are not like a formal numbered plan, that these are, in fact - this is very, very sensitive data in preparation for an attack that if - fell into the hands of the enemy, would have given them advantages and put our troops lives in danger. That is the fundamental factor here, that this communication should not be occurring on unclassified systems.

It also seems possible, the way this is formatted and kind of organized, that this may have been copied from another system into the Signal chat with all this kind of data in - in - together. And my - my perspective is that this may be the tip of the iceberg. The fact that it's labeled a Houthi PC small group implies that there are other PC small groups on other sensitive topics, and this is a norm that they're conducting classified communications in open channels, even though this is an encrypted website, and that that is - and that if anybody is held accountable, it's because somebody was caught, not that this was a really dangerous precedent to conduct these kinds of communications on non-secure channels, just merely that somebody was caught and embarrassed, that's the - the danger here.

BERMAN: I mean, clearly we have a better sense now of what happened and who posted what and what was in it. So - so, what's next in your mind? What do you want and think needs to come from this?

VINDMAN: Well, I think the fact - the first thing that needs to happen is that they should not be lazy and they should conduct the processes the way they're intended, behind closed doors in SCIFs, in these secure facilities, where they deliberate on these things, not in a Signal chats that are, frankly, imprecise and limited, that these are very, very serious matters. Matters that, under my time in the white - in the Trump White House were conducted behind closed doors with a fulsome treatment of whatever the matter was and that there is not a leak, as indicated here, and that there is not this level of sloppiness and it doesn't embarrass ourselves with regards to our allies also, and give our adversaries the perception that there are vulnerabilities to exploit.

There were a lot of different issues here. Again, the - my biggest concern is that this is the tip of the iceberg. It needs to be investigated and there needs to be some oversight to make sure that we clean this mess up and that people are held accountable for a major, major lapse in judgment.

BERMAN: Colonel, I want to ask you very quickly about what's going on in the negotiations between the United States and Ukraine and the United States and Russia.

President Trump, there was this deal, the United States announced, between - that, you know, Ukraine and Russia wouldn't attack shipping in the Black Sea. But then Russia says, you know what, we're not going to do it unless conditions are met. And now President Trump is saying that Russia seems to be dragging its feet.

I wonder what you think of this, given that you've got a brand new article out this morning in "Foreign Affairs," a piece titled "The Perils of Russia First: Appeasing Moscow Didn't Work in the Past, and It Won't Work for Trump."

[08:59:58]

VINDMAN: You know, I'm trying to take my research and my experience in the space, understanding that the Russians are using these dangles, bright, shiny objects, to entice the Trump administration.