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Markets Drop at Open; Dr. Leana Wen is Interviewed about the Measles Outbreak; Michelle Singletary is Interviewed about the Stock Market. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 07, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

DIANE SWONK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, KPMG: To pass along some of those costs to consumers.

And the Federal Reserve is trying to weigh all of those things because we learned in the 1970s, if you cut rates too soon in that kind of environment, you get a much longer vicious cycle of stagflation, and they want to avoid that. So, this is a very difficult environment for the economy and environment. You get a much longer vicious cycle of stagflation, and they want to avoid that. So, this is a very difficult environment for the economy and for financial markets.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. There is the opening bell. We have all been waiting for this. There's a lot of people on edge watching this. Nerves very high.

Stay here for a second. We're going to quickly go to our Kate Bolduan.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. So, let's jump in and let's go. Breaking news on the opening bell on Wall Street. Let's get over to CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich. She is there at the Stock Exchange for us. And Vanessa, what are you seeing right now and where is this headed?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, so we're seeing markets just open this morning, coming off of a very volatile week last week. Investors this morning just really not getting a sense of whether or not we're through the worst of this. You can see the markets here. I'm just refreshing my screen. Yep, opening down. You have the DOW down more than 2.5%, the NASDAQ down almost 4% and the S&P down more than 3%.

You know, investors are really bracing for what is to come this week, which is Wednesday, when we are going to see those reciprocal tariffs, those higher tariffs go into effect on key trading partners like China, like Vietnam, like Cambodia. And investors are just bracing for that to happen. They're not really hearing anything from the administration right now that signals that that is not going to happen.

I spoke to an investor earlier this morning who told me that he would love to hear a little bit more about the negotiations going on behind the scenes about what may be going on between some of these countries in the U.S. in terms of bringing down those tariff levels. He said that that might be pretty calming for the markets in the moment.

But worth noting, though, that while there are obviously major companies traded here on Wall Street, there are a lot of small businesses that are also watching this play out. 99% of businesses in the U.S. are small businesses, over 30 million of them. And they are bracing for what is to come.

A lot of these big corporations that are traded here on Wall Street might be able to absorb some of these tariffs more quickly. But investors and analysts are bringing this up to me, that small businesses are not going to be able to share this burden of what is to come. You can see the numbers there, actually, the DOW, NASDAQ, S&P ticking even lower as the market opens this morning.

It is going to be interesting to see what happens today. Investors telling me that any communication, any messaging from the White House that shows that we're heading in a direction where this trade war is dialing back and not escalating would be helpful. I did ask traders this morning whether or not they thought that the calming words of the administration were helpful. They said that the toothpaste is out of the tube and it's not going back, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It sure seems that and also while there has been mixed messaging coming from the administration, for sure, if these are permanent or these are negotiable. It does not seem that as if the president himself is anywhere close to being ready to negotiate at this point, only saying that they're going to have to pay up a lot of money if they want to see any negotiation. And it seems that any of the hold on, sit tight, it's all going to get better. Those types of words have done nothing to help with what we're looking at the market in terms of the reaction so far.

YURKEVICH: Right. And I asked analysts that, do any of these words from the president, from the administration, sit tight, this is going to get better, play a role here? And they said, absolutely not. This trade war is full steam ahead. They have not seen any sense that the president is willing to dial back. Maybe he said he's willing to negotiate.

But, you know, we're several days away from where he first announced these tariffs and these reciprocal tariffs. And we are closer now to Wednesday when these reciprocal tariffs, high tariffs on key trading partners like China, are going to go into effect. And so you just see investors really not feeling good about the business outlook right now. And that isn't reflected in what you're seeing on the screen right now, Kate.

BOLDUAN: And that's why you have people like billionaire hedge fund manager and Trump supporter Bill Ackman saying if things don't change course, we're looking at a self-induced nuclear winter is the way he talked about it.

Vanessa is keeping an eye on it. She's on this at the Stock Exchange for us. Vanessa, thank you so much. Back to you, Sarah.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, Kate. Let's go back now to Diane Swonk. She is the Chief Economist at KPMG. You are hearing this in real time. We are seeing the markets in a massive decline. They are plunging at this hour. This looks a lot worse than futures did this morning. What's your take on what we are seeing here today?

SWONK: Well, it is basically saying we believe we will go into a recession.

[09:35:01]

And I think that's very important. The idea that, you know, even as a negotiating tool that the Gold Coast keep moving on that negotiation makes it very hard to figure out if this is a negotiating tool, but also how do you raise revenues and actually onshore and achieve the other goals that the administration says they'd like to do with tariffs if you are actually using them only as a negotiating tool.

I think the points about small business are really important. Restaurants, retailers, small-owned retailers and construction, they're among on the front lines and the crosshairs of the trade war. And they're also facing labor shortages due to their reliance on immigrant workers, on foreign-born workers. And so they're right in the middle of getting hit hardest by these things. And that's really important because that's one of the only businesses, no matter what your party affiliation is, that all Americans actually have faith in, and that is small businesses.

SIDNER: The more we're watching this, the more the markets are going down. And we're now seeing the NASDAQ down more than 4%, the DOW closing out on that, as well as the S&P 500.

I do want to mention this. Donald Trump, just about 30 minutes ago, put this out on social media. He said the United States has a chance to do something that should have been done decades ago. He is talking to the American people here. "Don't be weak. Don't be stupid. Don't be a PANICAN,' which he has termed a new party based on weak and stupid people. 'Be strong, courageous, and patient, and greatness will be the result."

Will greatness be the result of what we are seeing here if these tariffs are kept in place the way that they are and this trade war continues?

SWONK: The overwhelming evidence is unequivocal on tariffs over history, and that is that they will not pay off. The cost of them to the welfare of the overall economy, most notably to most Americans, will not offset some jobs that are created. And in fact, even the number of jobs created is overwhelmed by the number of jobs lost by tariffs at these levels.

The only thing that we can go back to is sort of Smoot-Hawley, which was 1930, when we saw a trade war tipped off with 25 countries after the start of the Great Depression. That gave a trade war with 10 of those 25 countries, plunged global trade by 67%, and pushed us deeper into the depths of the Great Depression.

That is why Congress has not levied tariffs since. And I think that's very important to remember, is the lessons of history are very strong here, and they do not pay off as people would like. What sounds good on the campaign parallel does not translate into good economic policy.

SIDNER: You are just hearing the headline from Diane Swonk, the Chief Economist at KPMG, saying we are headed into -- we are headed into a recession, according to your long history looking at the markets and seeing what is happening here today. That is a big deal, and that will affect all Americans and the rest of the world.

We will get back to you. Stick around. Diane, thank you so much for your time this morning.

Again, we are now in bear territory. We started the year off less than four months ago in bull territory.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:01]

BOLDUAN: We now know a second child has died from measles in Texas, the highly contagious and also highly preventable disease. Officials are saying that the school aged child was not vaccinated and had no underlying health problems. The new Health and Human Services secretary, RFK Jr., was in west Texas this weekend to attend the eight year old girl's funeral. And in doing so, Kennedy is now offering his most direct endorsement of the measles vaccine after years of trying to undermine the proven science around it.

This guidance coming far later than needed as the outbreak in west Texas has just exploded. The latest numbers of confirmed measles cases in the state is 481. If you look across other nearby states, and health officials have identified at least 569 cases linked to this outbreak.

Joining me right now is emergency room - emergency physician and contributing columnist with "The Washington Post," Dr. Leana Wen.

It's good to see you again, Doctor. Thank you for being here.

Just first your reaction to the death of a - now a second child and how significant it is to now have a second child to have died from measles here. This hasn't happened in decades.

DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER BALTIMORE CITY HEALTH COMMISSIONER: That's exactly right. I think we need to talk about this case. Of course, as being tragic and preventable and really sad, but also as being highly unusual because measles is a disease that's considered to be eliminated in the U.S. in 2000. The last case of a child who died of measles in the U.S. was in 2003. And now this year, in 2025, we have this outbreak involving hundreds of cases. And now we have two kids who have already died and there may be more to come. I think that, in a way, vaccines have been a victim of their own success. There are many people, including myself, who have never experienced measles because we got the vaccine. And we have forgotten, as a society, just how serious this disease is. That this is a disease. Yes, it's extremely contagious and it used to be very common. And so we have these statistics that as many as one in 20 children who are infected with measles will get pneumonia.

[09:45:06]

As many as one in 1,000 have brain swelling that could be so severe that they get deafness and permanent disabilities and seizures. And between one and three out of 1,000 unvaccinated children who contract measles will die. And we are at risk now of having this disease spread, not only in Texas, but in neighboring states, as we're already seeing. And it could have huge consequences on children and also on unvaccinated adults and immunocompromised individuals who are unable to receive the vaccine.

BOLDUAN: Which is why clear and persistent, consistent guidance from the nation's health officials, top health officials, is so important. We know that from past outbreaks of other diseases.

RFK Jr. posting on social media yesterday what was his most direct statement yet on the critical issue of measles vaccines, writing this, "the most effective way to prevent the spread of measles is the MMR vaccine."

You have spoken out against his approach and his response to this outbreak so far. Your opinion piece last week was titled "How Not to Stop A Measles Outbreak." What do you think of his statement now that he put out - we just see on - just on social media?

WEN: I think it's really important for everyone in a position of authority to endorse vaccination as the way to stop the measles outbreak, because that is the playbook that works. We have known about measles for many decades. We've had the MMR vaccine for decades. We know that it is 97 percent effective. Two doses of the MMR vaccine are 97 percent effective at preventing measles. This is the way for us to stop measles outbreaks. And so, I think it's a good thing that Secretary Kennedy is now speaking in favor of the vaccine.

Unfortunately, he has also made other statements, saying that things like cod liver oil or steroids or antibiotics are somehow going to cure the disease, which is just not true. There is no cure. There's no specific antiviral treatment for measles. And we've also seen consequences of what happens when people follow those other alternative methods, if you will, that are not effective. It distracts from vaccination, which is really the path for us to stop the outbreak. And also there are doctors in Texas who have reported that they've seen liver damage in children who have taken too much cod liver oil, which has high concentrations of vitamin a. And so, I think this is why it's important for us to stick to the facts, to stick to the evidence, and also use the playbook that's been used here in the U.S., but also globally, to stop measles outbreaks.

BOLDUAN: Here is the problem with all of it, and you're kind of getting at this, which is, it's incompatible with everything else, what it - what he's now saying on social media, this endorsement of the MMR, with everything else that he has said and done, which is - including launching a large study at HHS as we speak on that vaccine and autism, the long debunked conspiracy theory that he has pushed. And then also right after he endorsed the MMR vaccine, Meg Tirrell pointed out that he also then went on social media just a little while after with another post where he applauded local doctors who were administering unproven treatments for measles.

Just, what does this level of confusion do now?

WEN: I think there are a lot of people out there, a lot of parents who are scared, who are looking for trusted figures to tell them what they should be doing. And I know doctors in Texas and in Oklahoma and New Mexico who are trying their best. There are local public health workers who are trying to fight this disinformation. And what they need to do is to have consistent messaging. They need to have consistent messaging from our top federal health officials as well, that, look, these parents are scared. They don't know what they should be doing. They're hearing different things from different people. And if - and it's really not helping the work of clinicians and local public health workers when there are these distracting things.

We really need to say that measles is serious, which is also something that unfortunately Secretary Kennedy has downplayed, the seriousness of measles before. We also have to talk about how this is preventable, how measles is such a contagious disease that it can - it's an airborne virus. It can linger in the air for up to two hours after an infected person has left the room. Nine in 10 unvaccinated children who are exposed to measles will contract this disease. It's notoriously extremely difficult to control. And we're at risk for this outbreak getting far out of control and having thousands upon thousands of cases, not only in Texas, but around the country and of the U.S. losing its measles elimination status.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

Dr. Leana Wen, thanks for coming in. Appreciate your time.

WEN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: We're also keeping a very close eye right there on the markets following the breaking news on Wall Street. S&P 500 has now entered bear market territory. Got an update, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:44]

BOLDUAN: The breaking news this morning, U.S. markets are now in bear market territory as stocks plunge after the opening bell on Wall Street. Many Americans, understandably, watching that and very worried about what this means for their investments, what this means for their retirement accounts, what this means for small businesses. We continue to keep our eye there with also an eye for what - what should anyone do in this time of uncertainty.

Michelle Singletary is joining us right now to discuss how the instability affects you and what American - what - and what you can do to protect yourself as much as possible. A nationally syndicated personal finance columnist with "The Washington Post." Also the author of, "What to Do with Your Money When Crisis Hits: A Survival Guide," which, what to do with your money when crisis hits, please help us right now. What's your top piece of advice?

SIDNER: That's the best question of the day, by the way, help us.

MICHELLE SINGLETARY, SYNDICATED PERSONAL FINANCE COLUMNIST, "WASHINGTON POST": I - you know, really, it - I'm going to call my therapist. I'm not - I'm not going to lie.

SIDNER: Oh, my.

SINGLETARY: Because I need to not go crazy. Listen, I'm not going to tell people not to panic because that that - that does them a disservice because it - if you're like me, I am first generation in the stock market. So, to see these type of drops is heartbreaking and very scary. And we need to acknowledge that and say, it's OK that you're scared.

What I don't want you to do, which is the harder thing to do, is to not go in there and sell and lock in those losses, especially if you've got a long time before you have to retire.

I was in church on Sunday, and my 24-year-old sent me a text message. So, mom, should I get into the market? Because we were encouraging her to open up a non-retirement account. And I said two words to her, yes, ma'am, go ahead and get into the market.

And that is my advice for younger adults and people who have some time to go before they have to take this money out.

SIDNER: It sounds like that's your tip for - for those in their 20s, 30s and 40s who have another couple of decades to be able to work. And now they can buy things more cheaply as the markets tumble, or where are we now, plunge.

What about for people who are closer to retirement age, who are looking at this going, I don't have time for this to build back up?

SINGLETARY: Well, you know, that's the thing. They actually do have time. If you're in your 50s or 60s, you could still live another 20 or 30 years. So, we tend to look at our retirement portfolios as a whole. All this money, it's going down. But you - in any one year you're not taking all of that money out, or you shouldn't. And so, as you're getting closer to retirement - in retirement, you hopefully have a balanced portfolio. You've got some equity stocks and some bonds and cash, y'all. You need to have money that is not at risk from the market so that when it has this kind of period, you can pull it out, buy the things that you need, food on the table, keep the roof over your head. If you have not done that and you're all in equities and you're like, oh my goodness, you need to really talk to a financial professional and see how you can pull back. That's right.

[09:55:01] BOLDUAN: And real quick, we have it up on the screen, some of the safe places that you're looking at to put your money while the - while we weather this storm.

SINGLETARY: Yes, treasuries, CDs, money markets, you know, high-yield quality bonds that should be part of your portfolio, and cash.

And the other thing you can do is just look at your budget, cut your expenses so that you have that extra cash so you don't have to dip into your retirement. Listen, my husband's retired, so we're right there with you. I'm not telling you anything that I'm not trying to do myself. I'm scared. I'm not going to lie. But we are not making any major moves right now.

SIDNER: Michelle Singletary, thank you, thank you, thank you for being so honest. And you're speaking the way that most of us are speaking. There is fear, there is tension, people are going to church and they're going to a therapist, but also there are things you can do. I appreciate you laying that out for us this morning.

BOLDUAN: We are all in this together.

SIDNER: Together.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much for joining us today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "THE SITUATION ROOM," up next.

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