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Markets to Open after Days of Chaos; China Defiant after Tariffs; Supreme Court Allows Deportations to Continue. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 08, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

SAM SILVERSTEIN, REPORTER, "GROCERY DIVE": To insulate consumers from price increases on items that they need more, the essential goods.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: It is really interesting hearing that - that the - what grocers are feeling is what consumers are feeling, and that's what grocers are going to be trying to convey, is that we're - we are in the - we are feeling it just right along with you. And we are in this - we are in this together. Let's see what that really looks like as this picture starts to become more clear with these tariffs setting in tonight.

SILVERSTEIN: Certainly.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Sam, so much for your reporting. Really appreciate it.

New hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the markets are about to open. Futures have been pointing up pretty sizably this morning. Maybe investors think the whole White House is beginning to open the door to tariff negotiations. But brace yourself, it could be a new rocky day.

Dentists say it has been critical in preventing cavities, fluoride in drinking water, but now Health Secretary Robert Kennedy wants to change the guidance on how and if it's used.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The 2025 national championships, your Florida Gators. We are live here in San Antonio, near the Alamodome, outside the Alamo. We will have all the highlights for all of the fans.

BOLDUAN: So, we're 30 minutes out now from opening bell on Wall Street. It could be a different day there today. Futures, let's take a look, they are up right now. It appears the markets are feeling slightly more optimistic, or maybe at least slightly less terrified on the news that President Trump says he's ready to hit China with an additional 50 percent tariff on goods coming to the United States if Beijing doesn't drop its own set of retaliatory tariffs. So far, China is not backing down, accusing the president of economic bullying and vowing to, quote, "fight until the end." All of this is coming as Trump's reciprocal tariffs are set to take

effect tonight at midnight. And also happening this morning, Senate lawmakers, they're getting ready to pose some tough questions to Donald Trump's top trade representative about, well, all of this.

CNN's Matt Egan, back with us to start us off this hour.

What is giving futures this sense of optimism? Is it the, we are negotiating or we're open to negotiating, message, non-message that we're getting?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Kate, it's hard to exactly pinpoint it. I think we have to remember that we're in this very volatile moment.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: And when that happens, there can be big moves up and down, right? There's this real time tug of war playing out between the optimists and the pessimists, between the bulls and the bears, right? I mean if you're optimistic, you don't want to miss that rebound in the market.

And everyone who's worried right now, they're trying to just kind of brace for the next tailspin. And so, I think we can expect to see these huge swings in the market continue. And, yes, I mean U.S. futures up more than 2 percent across the board. Clearly, the mood has improved dramatically from 24 hours ago. For the moment, though, I do think this feels like a fragile calm.

BOLDUAN: Right. Well, I mean, all you have to do is look no further than yesterday on what moment to moment can - it can really be like. You've - you're still - you're still sopping up the sweat from yesterday.

EGAN: Yes, that was a morning. That was -

BOLDUAN: What about with China?

EGAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: What - what are - what do you see here? What is this going to mean? Is this really happening?

EGAN: Yes, this is the focal point of the trade war right now. And, unfortunately, it could get worse before it gets better, right?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: We are bracing for a potentially dramatic escalation. Remember, last week President Trump vowed to increase tariffs on China by 34 percent. And China fired back and really spooked U.S. markets by saying, OK, we're going to put a 34 percent tariff on goods that are made in the United States.

Trump, yesterday said, well, look, if they do that, well, then we're going to go and increase by 50 percent unless China takes away from that retaliatory tariff today. So, we are facing a deadline here to see just how much higher tariffs are going.

And remember, these are the two biggest economies on the planet. Almost half $1 trillion of trade last year alone. The U.S. imports a lot from China, right? I mean, clothes, smartphones, electronics. And so, the higher tariffs go, Kate, the bigger the impact, I think, for consumers when it comes to prices.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: And the more that the world economy could get hit.

BOLDUAN: So, stand by to stand by. We'll see at least where it starts off together in just about 30 minutes.

EGAN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Matt.

John.

BERMAN: So, where is the White House on the idea of negotiating on tariffs. Even senior White House officials acknowledge there are mixed messages.

[09:05:01]

The chair from the Council of Economic Advisers says there are conflicting narratives because everyone has an opinion. In other words, if it sounds like there are mixed messages, it's because there are.

We're already hearing from the Treasury secretary today after learning he flew down to Mar-a-Lago over the weekend with a plea to the president, opened the door to the idea of an end game for these tariffs or risk even more market turmoil.

Let's get right to the White House. CNN's Alayna Treene is there.

What are they saying this morning, 25 minutes before the market open?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, look, they are trying to clarify here, I think, just how willing that President Donald Trump is to negotiate. And as you mentioned, that is a bit of a departure from what we had heard from some of the president's top advisers, people like Peter Navarro, who just yesterday did an op-ed saying that these tariffs, this plan is not a negotiation. I should note the White House actually had put that up on their Twitter page or their X page and then took it down after that.

All to say, we have heard now many of the president's top economic advisers say that at least 70 countries have reached out to the United States to try and negotiate some sort of deal here. The president, for his part, said that he is very much open to that. And in my conversations with White House officials, Trump administration officials, they tell me, look, the plan here is to really milk these countries for what they can get. The president's priority is to try and erase the deficit that America has with these other countries. And really, they want these other countries to bring good deals to the president, and then that's where they will really kick off these negotiations.

And just to get to what you kind of hinted at there, John, we do have new reporting that over the weekend, as we were seeing markets, you know, kind of spiral, 401(k)s shrink, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent flew to Florida to meet with President Trump and delivered this message. He essentially said, we need to get our team, our economic team, on the same page and unified in how we are messaging these tariffs. And we also need to better explain the end game here, which again is negotiating these trade deals with other countries.

BERMAN: Yes, and it is interesting that Bessent is the one out there this morning in advance of the market opening talking. It may be that the White House is coalescing around the idea that he's the messenger they want on this. We'll have to see if it continues throughout the day.

Alayna Treene, thank you for your reporting.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's dig into this. Joining us right now is CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.

Morning, gentlemen.

Scott, as a political messaging exercise, do you think the Trump team is doing a good job of it so far?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Scott Bessent is doing an excellent job. I think the Treasury secretary talking about the endgame, as we just heard, the 70 countries that have called and really also some tough messaging on China today and talking about the leverage that the United States has, I think this is actually the messaging that will work and calm people down, and also give people the confidence that there's a plan in place here on the tariffs. What's the purpose of it? What are we trying to accomplish, both inside the United States and on the international stage?

BOLDUAN: But underlying what our wonderful friend Scott is saying is, one person is getting that message right, Bakari. But the way that White House Economic Adviser Stephen Miran said - put it yesterday is, so there are conflicting narratives because you know everybody - everybody's got an opinion. He says, that's fine. Disagreement is how you can sort of, well, enhance your arguments. What do you think of that?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that literally makes no sense. But one of the things that you are seeing, though, is that the American public, they are the ones pushing back. This isn't something that's just happening - happening inside the beltway. And usually when you have these disagreements, I believe Scott will tell you, they are had within your team before you roll out a plan. You usually don't just kind of build the plane while you're flying, especially when you're talking about people's pocketbooks. People see the market. They're not stupid. People see the impact that tariffs have. And people also understand that tariffs are a tax on the American public.

We want to know, why are we tariff - why are we implementing these tariffs. What's the purpose? What's the end game, as Scott Bessent is trying to get around to do. And why must American's feel this pain? Is this going to make us safer and stronger? And Democrats are pushing back and saying the answer is no.

BOLDUAN: And Republicans are worried, Scott, as this has continued. And maybe it will change if the markets do well today. I don't know. But just, Republican Senator John Kennedy, he's started to wonder aloud, I saw it yesterday in more than one interview, including on CNN, starting to wonder if the medicine will be worse than the disease. And saying - and also saying very clearly that right now it is President Trump's economy.

And with that in mind, then I want to play you someone else who is speaking loudly for the president about the president, which is his top trade adviser, Peter Navarro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, TRUMP SENIOR COUNSELOR FOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING: Dow 50,000. I guarantee that. And I guarantee no recession, OK. Why? Because when we pass the biggest, broadest tax cut in history, within a matter of months, that's going to be a great stimulus.

[09:10:03]

There's not going to be any inflation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Would you advise setting that kind of a bar for success right now with how much uncertainty there is? I mean Peter Navarro is - no matter what Scott Bessent says, Peter Navarro is not going to stop talking.

JENNINGS: Well, I understand. And I do think it's good to promote and project confidence. When you go out and make sweeping promises like that, if they don't come true, they're very easy to use against you. I do think he's right, by the way, about the tax cuts. I would actually take it a step further if I were them and not only would I talk about the individual tax cuts being made permanent, I would be proposing massive cuts or an elimination of the capital gains tax right now. I'd be projecting and throwing out the idea of cuts in the corporate tax rate because right now you have Democrats out there who have now found their free market and low tax bona fides and they're - and they're feeling that spirit right now. So, let's see how serious they are and try to get them on board with even further reductions in taxes on corporate activity.

BOLDUAN: So, let me actually continue this - with what Scott - where Scott's going here because you also now, Bakari, have the president's U.S. - the U.S. trade rep testifying before Senate Finance today. And according to the prepared remarks he is going to say, in part, that the president's, quote, "strategy is already bearing fruit and that nearly 50 countries have approached me to discuss the president's new policy and explore how to achieve reciprocity. If countries agree to lower their trade barriers against the United States, would that be a good thing?

SELLERS: Yes. I mean, I don't think that anyone can sit up here and honestly say that that would not be a good thing. But what countries are going to lower them? I mean, when is this going to happen? What has to happen before we get to that point? And Scott now, and Peter Navarro, are simply saying it's going to be OK, just put your faith in Mike Johnson and the legislative process because although the tariffs may not work out the way we want to plan it, we will have this tax bill that we don't even know what's in the tax bill yet, we don't know what it looks like, but it's going to be broad and it's going to prevent a recession.

One of the things that the American public want, competency and consistency. Those are the two - I mean, that's it, just competency and consistency. And the way this messaging is playing out, it does not give the American public the belief that either one of those things is happening right now in the White House.

So, now I guess we have to turn to Mike Johnson and the United States Congress and wait on this tax bill, which we don't know what it looks like.

BOLDUAN: But here's a data point to that, that is now that we - that we know now, Scott, is, do they - the White House needs to - or do they, need to define what makes a good deal when it comes to getting past this trade war? Because you've got the president already rejecting a zero for zero kind of trade tariff agreement with the European Commission, because the head of the European Commission put that out and Donald Trump said, that's not enough. So, what's a good deal?

JENNINGS: Well, I think it's probably different for different countries. I mean what's - what's good for us to do with Vietnam or the EU may be different from a smaller country or a country that makes different things.

BOLDUAN: I hear that like what's the - what's the problem with defining it to offer some certainty?

JENNINGS: Well, I think the problem with defining it publicly on the front end or accepting the first deal that's put on the table by the EU or anyone else is to really box yourself in. And you don't want to start a negotiation where you think you have some leverage, you know, by saying, OK, fine, we'll take your first offer. I think that would be folly.

In fact, my answer to Bakari's criticism about the Congress on the tax cuts, it's not an either or situation. This is a two-part plan. Part A is the tariffs and what Trump wants to do to restructure trade. Part B is the Congress has to do its job on making the tax cuts permanent, doing more to unleash American energy and the other changes they want to make in reconciliation. It's not that one is a substitute for the other. They have to work together. And I suspect - I know the president's meeting with some House Republicans today.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

JENNINGS: I suspect what he's going to tell them is, I'm out here doing something huge, but you got to do your part because one doesn't work without the other.

BOLDUAN: Right. But then, you know, all set against the backdrop is, I think it was Goldman Sachs who came out that said that this will amount to the largest tax increase on the American people in, well, decades as - with these tariffs. So, on balance, we'll have to do the math when we have the mathing.

It's good to see you, Scott. Thank you.

JENNINGS: We'll see ya.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Bakari.

John.

BERMAN: All right, the Supreme Court with a highly anticipated ruling on the White House using wartime powers to deport alleged migrant gang members. Why this ruling might not be everything the White House says it is.

The American Dental Association says it is the single most efficient way to prevent cavities. But now Health Secretary Robert Kennedy wants fluoride out of drinking water. He wants to change the guidance to the CDC about fluoride in drinking water. What do the studies actually say?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:19:25]

BOLDUAN: The Supreme Court giving something of a green light for the Trump administration to continue with its program of quickly removing migrants from the country under the rarely used 18th century law, the Alien Enemies Act. In the divided decision, the conservative majority said the administration must, however, give Venezuelans, who it claims are gang members, reasonable time to go to court to fight the deportation. The ACLU calling that element of the decision a big victory.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has much more on this for us now.

So, Priscilla, what does this all mean?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, this is one of those rare decisions where both sides are claiming some level of victory over what the Supreme Court said about the use of the Alien Enemies Act.

[09:20:06]

Now, what it means is that the Trump administration will be able to use this authority to deport migrants. Now, as you mentioned there, it's a sweeping wartime authority. It's only been used three times. And the most recent time was in World War - or during World War II.

Now, what it allows essentially is for the administration to wipe away the usual immigration process that immigrants are entitled to as they work through their proceedings and as they face deportation. So, that is why it is so attractive to the administration, to immigration hardliners, because it gets a lot of those hurdles out of the way for them, which is what we saw in March - in March when they deported Venezuelan nationals to that notorious prison in El Salvador.

Now, the Supreme Court is saying that they have to provide adequate notice. They have to allow migrants who are going to be subject to this proclamation to be able to challenge that in court. So, that is what the ACLU is considering a win in this order. Of course, there's more to come in this space.

So, this ultimately may allow the Trump administration to speed up some deportations, but they will face some delay because they're going to have to provide that notice according to the Supreme Court.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely. Very interesting.

Priscilla, thanks for laying it out for us.

John.

BERMAN: All right, my friend Josh Gerstein, who writes on the Supreme Court for "Politico," has a nuanced take on this. He says the Supreme Court did not uphold any aspect of Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act. It said challengers filed in the wrong court, which is what they said. That's bad news for the 130 men already deported to El Salvador. But all the major questions remain unresolved.

With that is now CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers.

So, what the court said was that the challenge was filed in the wrong place, which they were split on. The one thing they were unanimous on, though, was that each of these migrants being deported needs to be given a chance to challenge this. They basically unanimously upheld some type of judicial review of each case, which didn't exist for those three planeloads.

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's right. And not just notice, but they have to prove that they fall within the category of people who can be removed. They'll have to prove that it's legal to remove them under that act. That is all unresolved. Judge Boasberg had a preliminary injunction hearing planned where they

were going to have a more factually developed record and he would rule on that. Now they're saying they can't challenge that there. It will have to go to Texas, where the five migrants who were plaintiffs in one of the actions are currently being held.

BERMAN: Because they - the court said if you're going to make a habeas corpus challenge, it has to be in the place they are. What does that all mean without the Latin basically?

RODGERS: Well, habeas corpus is free the body, right? So, it's all about that person and where they physically are. That's why they have to go to the court in the district where they're located so they can say, free me, I'm here.

For the people who are outside of the United States, to the extent that they have a recognized habeas claim, it would be brought in the District of Columbia. That's where extraterritorial habeas are brought. So, to the extent that those folks you mentioned who were on the planes and already got to El Salvador, if they want to challenge their habeas corpus, it would be in Washington, D.C., everyone else where they're physically located.

BERMAN: So, how will it work? That each time that they want to use the Alien Enemies Act, if they want to, they've got to give notice and allow time to go to a judge who will then rule yea or nay?

RODGERS: That's right. And they'll be able to say, first of all, the Alien Enemies Act does not apply here. We are not at war with Venezuela, though Venezuela has not invaded us. Neither has this gang Tren de Aragua. But also, I don't fall within the category of people, right? My tattoo doesn't mean I'm a member of the gang, et cetera. None of that individualized proof has happened in this case yet. And the Supreme Court did say that does have to happen before they can remove people.

BERMAN: And again, the big question that a lot of people have here is, does the Alien Enemies Act, can it be used at all? The court did not rule on that. I suppose they may never, although one would think it would work its way back up to them again. Did it give any hint, in your reading of this, any hint on where they may go here?

RODGERS: No. Although I am disturbed that they didn't at least give us a hint that this may not be a proper use of the act. And I'm also really disturbed, John, by their failure to engage with the bad faith of the administration here in rushing these people onto a plane, in not releasing the proclamation publicly, in rushing them despite the fact they had a court, you know, a court hearing in place where they had a good reason to believe that the judge was going to stop them. All of that also remains unsaid, which to me emboldens the administration to try to keep pushing these limits.

BERMAN: It's a great point.

Jennifer Rodgers, nice to see you. Thank you for explaining this so well. RODGERS: Thanks.

BERMAN: We are just minutes away from the opening bell on Wall Street. I'm looking at stock futures now, up more than they've been so far this morning. There are White House advisers who seem to be opening the door more to negotiations. President Trump just put out a statement on social media about the idea of negotiations and maybe softening some of the tariffs towards certain countries.

[09:25:07]

That may be driving this. Much more in the next few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: All right, we are - I'm looking for a clock here. We are moments away - we are seconds away now from the opening bell on Wall Street. So far, if you've been watching stock futures, they have seemed to be, obviously, pointing far - looking in a far better direction than they have been in the past few days. And also just feeling a better mood this morning.

[09:30:02]

What is driving the mood?

CNN's Matt Egan has all of the answers for us, as we're going to watch it open up in a second. What is lifting the