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Markets Open After China Retaliates; FAA Investigating Near Collision; Jason Isaacs is Interviewed about "White Lotus." Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 09, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And in a vacuum, are you more supportive of the actions against China?

SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-WI): BALDWIN: So, I believe that China cheats. That the government there subsidizes industry, which creates an unlevel playing field for Wisconsin workers. You know, Wisconsin is a state that makes things. We're a big manufacturing state. But when you have an unlevel playing field, you see the results. We lose jobs. We see China being able to undercut and underprice. We see steel dumping, aluminum dumping. And I think it's absolutely appropriate to have targeted tariffs or countervailing duties when - when China cheats.

But there are tools that make sure that we are, you know, analyzing their practices and responding appropriately. But across the board, with our trading - with our allies, our trading partners, makes no sense for our economy. And we're seeing the consequences, as are Wisconsin families seeing the consequences at the grocery store and the gas pump.

BERMAN: Senator Tammy Baldwin from Wisconsin, we do appreciate your time this morning.

The markets just opened. Let's get over to Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Opening bell just ringing on Wall Street. Investors bracing all over the place for another roller coaster day. Matt Egan is here.

So far where are we, Matt?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kate, we're seeing U.S. markets open the day lower, at least for the Dow. You see the Dow is off by 1 percent, 365 points. The Nasdaq was slightly higher.

Look, investors are worried about this trade war. I mean this is a massive gamble by the president. And Wall Street is worried about how this is going to end.

When we look at the S&P 500, you see down half a percent. The key number to watch there is 4,915. It's trading above that level. If it goes below that level, we will officially be in a bear - in bear market territory. If it closes below that, we'd be in the second fastest bear market ever.

And, obviously, the big focus here is the trade war. The fact that the president sent tariffs on China skyrocketing is really unnerving investors. China immediately firing back. So, we have the two biggest economies on the planet in - just kind of staring each other off in this full-blown trade war. Investor Peter Boockvar (ph), he said, "this is getting so ridiculous that it's hard to believe it's actually happening. And we are hearing more recession warnings.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: RSM came out and they said that they now think that the most likely outcome is that the U.S. economy will be in recession this quarter because there's just so many shocks going on all at the same time, Kate.

BOLDUAN: What more are you hearing? I mean for - for leading up to this, you could say business leaders were relatively quiet. And then kind of the floodgates seemed to open. What are you hearing now?

EGAN: Yes, we have heard from some leading CEOs, investors like Bill Ackman.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: Today we've heard some warnings from corporate America. So, Walmart came out and they're abandoning their guidance for the year because of tariffs. Also Delta Airlines, similarly, they're abandoning their outlook. They said that the economy has largely stalled in terms of growth. They said there's been a lack of economic uncertainty. That's why they pulled their guidance. They've dropped their plans to offer more seats as well.

And look, this is not just the CEOs, right? There are small businesses that have been hit too, right? Everyone's trying to make sense of how high tariffs are going to go, how long they're going to stay in place and what these retaliatory moves, especially from China, are going to do in terms of damage to the economy here.

BOLDUAN: Matt, thank you so much.

EGAN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right. Stick with me. Let's see what happens in the next few minutes.

Also this, coming up for us, a close call over D.C. Military jets and Delta plane nearly collide. Did air traffic control fail to catch key warnings? Did they violate protocol during a planned flyover? That's now under investigation.

Also this, "White Lotus," the season finale, it had it all. I won't give you all the twists and turns or any spoilers, but one of the seasons stars joins us, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:38:51]

BOLDUAN: New this morning, the FAA says air traffic control managers have been replaced at Reagan National Airport after a series of serious safety incidents. A shakeup at the DCA airport was announced after the FAA said it's now looking into another scary close call. How a Delta passenger plane and four military jets doing a flyover of Arlington National Cemetery came within seconds of colliding. According - this is according to sources, the communications breakdown apparently occurred when air traffic controllers failed to follow protocol and hold departing flights for a moment, standard protocol for a planned flyover. But for some reason, that did not happen.

Now, this incident happened on March 28th, in the same crowded airspace as January's deadly midair collision between an American jet and an Army helicopter. That crash killed all 67 people on board.

Joining me right now is CNN transportation analyst and former inspector general at the transportation department, Mary Schiavo.

Mary, thank you for coming in.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about this incident first. You called this a collision without casualties. I mean, how serious is this?

[09:40:00]

SCHIAVO: Right. This was among the most serious. You know, there's lots of equipment. The public's become well aware of all the equipment we have with all these near misses and the fatal collision, but TCAS, the traffic alert and collision avoidance system, there are several levels of TCAS alerts.

The first one is a traffic advisory, and that's 35 to 40 seconds away from a collision, and the pilot takes evasive action. The more serious one is this one, called a resolution alert, and that's between 20 and 30 seconds from a collision. But in this case, the reports are that it was five seconds from collision. So, this is one of the most serious alerts, one of the most serious TCAS and laws of separation you can have.

So, this was a really big deal. And thank heavens for the TCAS and for the pilots, and that shouldn't be happening. And, of course, TCAS works in the plane and surveils the airspace around it and works, you know, often without air traffic controllers being involved to save the flight. And that's what happened here.

BOLDUAN: The fact that this is happening in that same airspace as what happened in January, it just adds to a lot of concern about the airspace around DCA. And now we've got multiple announcements this morning of changes within FAA and in - around air traffic control I wanted to ask you about. Learning this morning, the head of the FAA air traffic organization is stepping down as part - the FAA says as part of the voluntary deferred resignation program offered by the Trump administration. But this top official had planned to retire at the end of the year but will now be leaving months early. What's your reaction to this, given what we're talking about, that the FAA and air traffic control is in the middle of so much.

SCHIAVO: Oh, anyone could see this one coming. And you could see this retirement coming literally by the numbers. Air traffic control is short 3,500 controllers. Whose job is that? Air traffic control and the head of air traffic control. And the NTSB found 15,214 loss to separations at DCA in just three years. Whose job was it to - to research that and find that and stop that? Air traffic controls. They had seven - they have about 1,700 runway incursions every year. Some of the years it's been record numbers. That's the collision on the ground without a casualty. Whose job is that? Air traffic controls.

And finally, we've had the first fatal crash in about two decades at DCA, when air traffic control allowed planes and helicopters to operate at some point 75 feet apart. And that's air traffic control's job. And in the federal government, when you're in trouble, you better take your retirement because if you wait around, this would be cause for removal, in my opinion.

And so, we could see - anybody could see this one coming. And you know what, it's time. If you have this many problems in an agency, whether it - you know, say it was a big corporation, which air traffic control is, the leadership would have to change. It's - it's time for change.

BOLDUAN: There also, as I mentioned earlier, there's - the further management shakeup. Air traffic control managers at Reagan national are now being replaced. The statement from the FAA on this is, we brought in new - "we brought in a new DCA management team to ensure strong support for the workforce. Their priorities will include: reviewing safety data trends while preventing/correcting drift, performance management and ensuring facility training is robust and consistently meets national standards."

SCHIAVO: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That's - you know, that is the statement. But take me inside. What's going on here? What do you see?

SCHIAVO: Well, that's government speak. I mean, I was in the federal government a long time and a long time in transportation. That's government speak for admitting that your agency or whatever you're doing, that this particular tower is not working. And we also hear news, now this is just, you know, report on the, you know, on the internet, but there was an actual fight in this tower the night before this most recent near collision. And when you have a tower that has this many near misses, 15,214 loss of separations and a serious near miss every month, there is something going on there that is not good, you're not getting the job done, you're not doing what you have to do. And so saying you're going to have a change of staffing and management is government speak for, oh, my God, we have a huge problem, and it - I think -

BOLDUAN: Yes, that number that came out - yes, that number that came out from - partly from the NTSB investigation of the 15,000 plus close calls -

SCHIAVO: Right.

BOLDUAN: I mean it's just terrifying. That's over just the last three years.

Mary, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for coming in.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, spoiler alerts ahead, friends. "White Lotus," season three just wrapped, and one of the seasons biggest stars is our guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:49:21]

BERMAN: All right, a little break from the tumult around the world now this morning. The season finale of "The White Lotus" left fans shocked and delighted. One of the most talked about story lines, that of Tim Ratliff, the complicated Durham, North Carolina, corporate titan/good dad.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON ISAACS, ACTOR, "THE WHITE LOTUS": I couldn't ask for a more perfect family. We've had a perfect life, haven't we? No privations. No suffering. No trauma. And my job is to keep all that from you.

[09:50:03]

To - to keep you safe. Because I love you. I love you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, too.

ISAACS: I do love you so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love you, dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love you, dad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That was one amazing scene.

JASON ISAACS, ACTOR: So sad.

BERMAN: After a season of amazing scenes with actor Jason Isaacs here, one of my wife and I's favorite characters.

ISAACS: One of? How long is the list? BERMAN: This is - it was - you were number one for - for most of the

season.

ISAACS: OK, good. Thanks very much. OK. It could be a very long list, like (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Yes, I think one of the 10 or 12 best characters on the show.

ISAACS: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Listen, I guess we're going to do no spoilers, which is going to be hard.

ISAACS: That's - I mean you just saw that. That's the lowest point I've ever been, you know, as an actor - not as an actor. I mean, it's a magnificent show. But that's one of the saddest things I've ever done, a man who is about to - spoiler, cover your ears, cover the screen - kill his entire family and kill himself.

And when I read the scripts, I thought, I don't know if I can do this. Like, I don't know how - if I can do it convincingly, believe - or if I can believe myself that I would ever do that. And I - watching that - I'm on a TV show talking to you, but it just reminded me of how unbelievably sad I was that day.

BERMAN: How did you get yourself in that place?

ISAACS: I was very, very sad. I mean, people think acting is pretending. You decide to pull a face or decide to do something with your voice. It's not really. You just try and be the thing. You know, it's a simple job, you just have to be someone else in a different situation. And I tried as much as I could to be someone who thought the only way out - he's also drugged out of his mind - but the only way out is to - for the shame that's coming for them, like a tsunami, is to kill everybody that he loves. And, yes, it just made me very miserable watching it again.

It's pretend. Let's remind myself. But you don't pretend. You try and be the thing.

BERMAN: We were talking for a bit backstage. You said this is the end for you right about now of a remarkable eight-week stretch.

ISAACS: Yes.

BERMAN: Talk to me about that.

ISAACS: Well, I mean, it feel - it is, in fact, eight weeks. It feels like all I've ever done my entire life is talk about "The White Lotus." That's my job. And I have to remind myself my day job is pretending to be other people. And that just reminded me, that clip.

I don't know, we're inside this bubble, all of this cast, but it has felt, I realize this is not accurate, but this felt like every single person on planet earth is watching and talking about "White Lotus." Now, most people have more important things to talk about. I was watching the items before we came on. Clearly, there's a lot going on in the world. Maybe it's because it's a welcome distraction, but I've certainly never been part of anything that has captured the zeitgeist so much in every country in the world.

BERMAN: Are you sad its over?

ISAACS: I don't know what I am. We had a finale event on Sunday where there were - we watched it with a big audience, and we all held each other's hands a lot of the time. And then we were kind of sobbing and holding each other a bit like the end of summer camp at the end. I don't know how much it was to do with the story, how much it was to do with the fact that we've been on this extraordinary adventure, and now we return to normal life.

BERMAN: What's it like to film something like that where there are so many complicated emotions coming from each actor, I imagine each person behind the scenes, you're in a remote location. What's that like?

ISAACS: It was a lot. We were there for seven months. We're not in each other's story lines. So, for me, watching it the other night, and watching it every week has been extraordinary, because I know these people socially, but I wasn't watching the stories they were telling. And although I'd read at the beginning, I'd forgotten what happened to them. And so I was just stunned by how fabulous and how different everyone's stories are.

BERMAN: Do you have a favorite other story line besides yours?

ISAACS: Yes, I love the three women. I thought Carrie Coon on Sunday night, when she gave that speech, theirs is the least melodramatic story. There's no, you know, drugs or murder or, you know, suicide. But just the notion that time is going by and that she, you know, the people she's known forever are more important to her than anything else. She broke everyone's heart. The whole audience was sobbing.

BERMAN: I'm just happy to be at the table is one of the most devastating lines.

ISAACS: Yes, well, he's a brilliant writer. I mean, funnily enough, people talk about Mike White's writing a lot but they don't talk about his directing.

BERMAN: Yes.

ISAACS: If anyone else directed these shows, they wouldn't have the same nuance and humanity that they have. He's an extraordinary person and a rare talent. And it's very, very annoying that I am now one of last season's cast, and there'll be another bunch of people that get the privilege of working with him.

BERMAN: Well, look, you could be in the next season. As far as we know, there is some carry on.

ISAACS: I'm alive.

BERMAN: Yes, you're alive.

ISAACS: So, who knows. I'm not sure that he'll have the money to go and stay at the White Lotus. Tim, he might be doing the garden. Who knows?

BERMAN: He could get a pardon, depending on what the administration is -

ISAACS: He - well, as you would only look too far in the other items on the news, it seems that people with a lot of money get away with a lot of things.

BERMAN: So you, of course, were also in the "Harry Potter" series, Lucius Malfoy. And my - my smart question - I took a long time crafting this, this morning, was, how concerned are you about being typecast in the role of complicated father/parenting problems?

ISAACS: You know, you go through different ages as an actor. I was - played a lot of cops, a lot of soldiers when I was young enough to look good with my shirt off. Then there's a time we played a lot of fathers. And some of my friends - I was talking to a friend the other day when I played six Alzheimer patients this year. So, I look forward to that phase coming too. At the moment, it's always dad stuff, and dad stuff is fine by me.

BERMAN: So, really, Lucius Malfoy, you know, Tim Ratliff, who's the better father?

ISAACS: Tim Ratliff loves his kids. Lucius Malfoy loves himself. You know, Lucius Malfoy wants power back. He wants to - he's trying to make Hogwarts great again. And it's all about, you know, himself and his ludicrous blond hairstyle. Sadly, there are no parallels in the real world.

BERMAN: He did get his (INAUDIBLE) back.

ISAACS: Hello. You just walked in.

BERMAN: This is - this is Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sorry.

ISAACS: Where did you come from?

BOLDUAN: We have this wired - at the end where I do, like, we do a creepy walk in and -

ISAACS: It was a creepy walk in.

BOLDUAN: And that was today's creepy walk in.

ISAACS: Was I not meant to notice? I'm not quite sure what the protocol is.

BOLDUAN: I - do not look - you're not allowed to look at me. It's kind of a rule. BERMAN: Do not look at her, especially in the eye.

ISAACS: OK. Sure.

[09:55:02]

Fine. I've read some of those writers. Yes.

BOLDUAN: If you do, you have to do compliment, compliment, then question.

ISAACS: Right.

BOLDUAN: Wait, but my question -

ISAACS: Go for it.

BOLDUAN: You mentioned you watched the season finale with like a -

ISAACS: I really - it was odd watching the crowd. Everyone was going to sit with their agents, and reps and other -

BOLDUAN: Is it nerve-wracking?

ISAACS: No, you will sit with the family, to my kids. And we all sat close to each other.

BOLDUAN: I'm - I'm very - would you - I would be, I don't know, not - as a non-actor, I - I - it would be nerve-wracking to watch my work -

ISAACS: Y es.

BOLDUAN: Like, the end of this whole project with people.

ISAACS: Well, so, it's nerve-wracking because every episode came in about an hour and a half and Mike cut them down to an hour. We didn't know what was going to be left in the show. Other people lost whole story lines. I lost the old line. So, you're watching it both enjoying the story and everyone else's story and thinking, what's left?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

ISAACS: But I thought it was one of the most - I mean I'm utterly biased, one of the most magnificent pieces of television I've ever seen because it's one thing to tell a story, it's another thing to pull all the strands together and deliver like he delivered.

BERMAN: It was fantastic.

ISAACS: With the expectations he had.

BERMAN: Congratulations, honestly. Thank you for what you've done. Thanks for coming in this morning. It's great to see you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming in. Thank you.

ISAACS: My pleasure. Thanks so much. Can I look at you now?

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Yes, only for a moment. Uh-huh.

Thank you so much for joining us today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "THE SITUATION ROOM" is up next. I'm flummoxed.

BERMAN: Yes. Look at Wolf Blitzer now.

BOLDUAN: I'm officially flummoxed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)