Return to Transcripts main page
CNN News Central
Judge In Kohberger Trial To Decide What Evidence Will Be Allowed; American Airlines Jets Bump Wings On Ground At Reagan National Airport; "Misinformation: Extreme America" Airs Sunday At 9PM ET/PM; Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-NY) Discusses Being on Plane When Jets Bumped Wings At Reagan National. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired April 10, 2025 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: -- alternate suspect in the brutal killings of four University of Idaho students.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:34:42]
KEILAR: We have a major update in the Bryan Kohberger murder case. He's the former grad student accused of killing four University of Idaho students.
After a marathon hearing on what evidence will be allowed in his upcoming trial, we're getting a clearer idea of what the defense's case is going to look like.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: It appears that Kohberger's legal team is going to offer an alternative theory, a theory that pins the blame on two possible killers.
(14:35:07}
CNN's Jean Casarez is here to unpack it all for us.
Jean, walk us through what happened in court today.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in regard to that, the defense, as they're arguing something else, it was the autism spectrum disorder, I believe, they said, Your Honor, we are going to have an expert to say that there were two people that perpetrated these crimes with two different weapons.
And I think that stems from, you know, there were two victims in both bedrooms. And so you visualize it. And as one victim is being stabbed to death multiple, multiple times, there was so much blood, horrific scenes, the other victim is there.
And I think a lot of us have wondered, how could -- how could this happen like that, one standing by, they don't run out, they don't do something.
Well, the defense apparently is going to have this theory and exclude Bryan Kohberger completely. So that is the one aspect here.
But of course, prosecutors can turn that around and say, well, then how did his DNA get on that knife sheath? And they will say -- and we've seen this in filings -- they're going to say that it was planted, that that's what they believe.
Now, the big issue, autism spectrum disorder. And the defense is trying to use that in several ways. First of all, they are concerned that the jury is not going to like Bryan Kohberger.
I mean, they said in court yesterday, the country doesn't like Bryan Kohberger. The country has convicted Bryan Kohberger. And they say it's because of this disorder, because it affects his persona as you just look at him.
Listen to Ann Taylor, lead attorney for the defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANN TAYLOR, LEAD ATTORNEY FOR DEFENSE: Brian's physical body is more stoic. How he sits in one place and he will look at -- for a long time. Sometimes he'll hold his hands in a rigid position, and that means nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: The defense wants to put this in their opening statement, so the jury knows about it right away, but they're also using it to try to get the death penalty off the table.
KEILAR: We also found out what the prosecution can show at trial. What can you tell us about that?
CASAREZ: Well, the prosecution is really focusing in on text messages between the two roommates, but also this photo of Bryan Kohberger that he took himself.
It was hours after the murder. He's in his bathroom, thumb is up. And they want to look at the eyebrows of Bryan Kohberger.
And so the prosecution wants the testimony of the surviving roommate, along with her law enforcement statements, to say that the perpetrator had bushy eyebrows.
And the defense is making a very, very big deal about that because she didn't come up with it. Law enforcement, in one of the interviews, is said, explain, describe those eyebrows. Did you see any eyebrows on him? And that was what she then said that they were bushy.
KEILAR: Yes. It's a very interesting photo, indeed.
Jean Casarez, thank you so much. Big updates in that case today.
And this just in. Reports of a minor collision at Reagan National Airport just outside of Washington, D.C. here. We'll have details for you straight ahead, after a quick break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:42:30]
KEILAR: We're following some breaking news. Officials at Washington's Reagan National Airport say no injuries have been reported after two American Airlines regional jets bumped wings on the runway or near the runway.
However, there are members, as in multiple members of Congress, who say they were on board one of these jets, at least.
SANCHEZ: CNN transportation analyst, Mary Schiavo, joins us now.
Mary, obviously, this happens amid so much attention over what's happening at Reagan National Airport over these last few months, including that collision between a military helicopter and a passenger jet.
I wonder what you make of what happened here.
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, this is just another warning and another wake-up call. And we also had the near miss between the Delta plane and the four military planes doing a flyover at Arlington.
We've had, literally one serious near miss a month for the last three years. And then they and the NTSB found 15,000 lost separation events in three years.
And so, I guess the -- the only good thing about this is that there are members of Congress on board. And when something happens in aviation, it tends to get more attention if there's a Senator or a member of Congress on board.
And the problem is, is DCA is very small. It has intersecting runways. It's overcrowded and it's very old. And this is going to keep happening until we get the -- the ever expanding traffic under control and eliminate some of the unnecessary traffic at this airport. It's -- it's a disaster waiting to happen.
KEILAR: So in general, if we broaden this out from DCA -- and we hope -- the disaster already happened, right? So we're hoping that there doesn't need to be another disaster here.
But even --
SCHIAVO: Right. Right.
KEILAR: Yes. Even beyond DCA --
SCHIAVO: Right.
KEILAR: -- because this should be a lesson that is expanded beyond that.
Are these incidents happening more frequently, or is it that we are just finally paying attention to them because we need to?
SCHIAVO: Well, in the years of Covid, they did fall off. These are called runway incursions. They -- they do happen with -- with some frequency.
The FAA does keep these statistics. Some like the surprise they got from the NTSB about the 15,000 near misses.
[14:44:59]
But these statistics, they hover around 1,700 a year at airports all across the country. And the FAA has been watching this for many years and trying to figure out what to do.
But the problem is, is not all the equipment is the same. And there's a lot of discussion that we need this new equipment all across the country.
And that all aircraft have to be equipped with it so we can prevent incursions, runway incursions, what they're called, or collisions on the ground as well as in the air.
And again, Congress, I think, is going to take this up very soon because the alarm has been sounded with the tragic accident at DCA.
And, you know, with the replacement of the FAA administrator and now the head of the air traffic control is leaving, this is a very good time for Congress.
And Congress needs to do this, and the Senate, to see what has to be done to make this air traffic control system, the system that we dreamed of, where collisions are a thing of the past.
And, you know, that's possible. The equipment exists to make that happen.
SANCHEZ: So what would you tell members of Congress, like the folks that we're on this flight that clipped, bumped wings, with another aircraft? What would you say that should be the top priority?
SCHIAVO: The top priority is the equipment. And it's not just hardware. It's software.
And the problem has been, for the past, literally, 20 to 30 years, is that Congress has given money to the FAA and air traffic control to make these systems, to build out the next-gen air traffic control system of the future, where collisions are a thing of the past.
But the contract management from the FAA, from air traffic control has not been robust. Many times, these multibillion dollar contracts have -- have been scrapped before they're even finished.
And because they take so long to roll out, this new equipment and these contracts, by the time the equipment is installed, the technology and the advancements have surpassed it.
So what they really need is good congressional oversight over the money, the taxpayer money that they're spending.
So when we do build out this new system -- and I think that's on -- been on the drawing board for some time -- that they really manage these contracts because we can't keep flying like this, with these, these near misses, clips.
And so I hope that the members of Congress on board will take it to heart and say, you know, they're really lucky. This was a wing clip. It's very expensive. The planes will be damaged. Occasionally, they -- they can't be repaired, but this will be expensive for the airlines.
But again, this is a combination of air traffic controller, could be a combination of air traffic controller fault, but it can also be the fault of the pilot.
There are very clear markings on the runways and taxiways. You have to stay right on them. You have to know as a -- as a pilot, you have to know what your wing clearances are.
And so this one will be investigated. And it's possible the pilots weren't adhering to the center lines. And it's possible that there was a misdirection. But time will tell.
Either way, we need that air traffic control system of the future. We've been building it for 20 or 30 years, but this time, we can't afford to blow those contracts. It has to work. We've had too many wake-up calls.
SANCHEZ: Mary Schiavo, always appreciate the expertise. Thanks for joining us.
SCHIAVO: Thank you.
After yesterday's soaring stock prices, the markets today back into sell-off mode as fears of a recession persist. We have much more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:52:37]
SANCHEZ: So think this through with us. What do these folks have in common? The godfather of 3-D printed guns, pardoned January 6th rioters and a Luigi Mangione fan club. Sounds like quite the motley crew.
KEILAR: Well, CNN's own Donie O'Sullivan is speaking with all of them. That's what they have in common. And more in the latest episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER."
And sometimes the conversations get, well, a little scary.
Here's Donie speaking with MAGA activist, Yvonne Rochlin, at a January 6th pardon press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: You mentioned Pelosi. What do you think she would be charged with in this scenario?
IVAN RALKLIN, MAGA ACTIVIST: A simple statute. This is treason.
O'SULLIVAN: Treason?
RALKLIN: Yes, absolutely. And I would like to see, at the end of the due process, lawful capital punishment.
O'SULLIVAN: Will you be disappointed if, in 12 months from now, somebody hasn't been executed for treason?
RALKLIN: I think the nation will be furious.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): He says even I could be a target.
RALKLIN: I'm not sure yet if you are or are not on the Deep State target list, because I haven't consumed all of the information that you've put forth to determine what your status should be.
O'SULLIVAN: Well, we've been hanging out --
(CROSSTALK)
RALKLIN: -- will ruin you.
(CROSSTALK)
RALKLIN: Just like you ruined us. An eye for an eye. Look up Leviticus as a Christian man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: All right. CNN's senior correspondent, Donie O'Sullivan, here with us to talk more about this.
We should note, that man that we just heard from made some threats, including toward you?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. Look, I mean, this is -- this episode that we're airing on Sunday is about extremism in America and just really how mainstream a lot of this really radical talk is -- is happening both online and, as you can see there, kind of off.
And of course, just in the past 24 hours, yesterday, we saw President Trump coming after some of those former officials that worked for him in the first administration.
So when you talk about retribution and what that gentleman, Mr. Ralklin, there is talking about, you know, it's -- it's difficult, I guess, to see where the extreme online rhetoric ends and where the reality of what's going to potentially happen in this administration begins.
SANCHEZ: I'm not sure if he burns yeast in his offerings to God, or makes sure to include salt in them, because that's also included in the book of Leviticus, as a rule that has to be followed.
[14:55:02]
Nevertheless, Donie, talk to me about the other people that you've met while doing this episode.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. And look, this -- this actually all comes at the third -- it's this month is the 30-year anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, Timothy McVeigh.
And really, what we're looking at is just how much easy -- easy -- how easier it is to become radicalized in America today.
You know, when it's -- whether it's extremist literature that Timothy McVeigh, when it came to "The Turner Diaries," had to seek out.
Now we're getting fed that on our social media feeds through algorithm every day. Right? Even if you're not looking for it. Also, it's easier to connect with other extremists online.
And one piece that we also looked at here, we focus a lot on right- wing extremism. And of course, we saw a lot of January 6th rioters pardoned and now released.
But also looking at some of the cheering on of violence, by the left or by some on the left, and looking specifically at Luigi Mangione, the alleged murderer of Brian Thompson, the health care CEO.
And just how a lot of people on the left who have been condemning right-wing violence for years are now cheering that on.
So, not a great sign, I guess, of overall health of a society or democracy when you have people on all sides in different -- in different capacities calling, cheering on violence.
KEILAR: You can't just, you know, condone violence that's on the opposite side you're on. Right? That's a very important thing.
And this episode also includes a scene of what I thought was some really important work that you did, which was being outside of the detention center where pardoned January 6th rioters were released.
And you interviewed some of them afterward. Really phenomenal work. What did they tell you about their future plans?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, that was Inauguration night. And as Boris, we were out on the street together for a while. It was a very, very, very cold night. But we were standing outside the D.C. jail.
And of course, the people who've been pardoned for January 6th are not going quietly into the night. Some -- some Proud Boys I have spoken to are talking about running for Congress.
Some -- some of these guys are trying to build up their own sort of MAGA media empires and building up those sort of followings. And really, you know what? They viewed these pardons as a
justification or as a confirming that they did the right thing and they acted patriotically on January 6th, because now they have the president of the United States saying they're pretty good guys.
SANCHEZ: Donie, I really want to ask if you found anything while doing this work that's maybe hopeful that there might be an off ramp for some of these folks?
O'SULLIVAN: That's -- that's -- that's -- that's a good question.
(LAUGHTER)
O'SULLIVAN: Look, I will just -- I will just say that the -- you've caught me here, Boris.
But I will just say that what was interesting was we spoke to the journalist, Taylor Lorenz, who a lot of people know, sort of more associated with liberals and the left.
And I put -- she's spoken up a lot about, for the people who are defending. Luigi Mangione, the alleged shooter, defending him. She -- I put to her, is it not hypocritical that if you're on the left and you're cheering this on, the right?
And she said, look, ultimately, what are your J6 or whether you're somebody cheering this on, a lot of people are just fed up with the system. And, you know, that really, they should -- sides should come together in that way.
Boris, you --
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I'm sad.
You're -- here's a tissue for you, Boris.
(LAUGHTER)
KEILAR: All right. Donie, thank you so much.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: It's going to be a really interesting. And your answer sort of said it all, I think.
O'SULLIVAN: So, be sure, we united in our hate, I guess.
(CROSSTALK)
O'SULLIVAN: That's the --
(CROSSTALK) KEILAR: Be sure to watch "THE WHOLE STORY," "MISINFORMATION: EXTREME AMERICA" this Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.
And we do have some breaking news on that minor collision at Reagan National Airport just outside of Washington, D.C. This is where two American Airlines planes, two regional jets bumped wings.
There were several members of Congress who were onboard at least one of the planes. One of them is with us now.
SANCHEZ: Yes, Congressman Adriano Espaillat is on the phone with us.
Congressman, talk to us about what happened, what you experienced. When did you realize something was wrong?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY) (via telephone): We were -- we were on the runway waiting to take off and another plane was turning and both wings hit each other. I felt the bump, the strong bump. And of course, we were quickly alerted that, you know, we had to go back to the gate and go outside.
So we're on another flight now, back to the city. But it was -- I'm glad everybody's OK.
KEILAR: OK. So you were -- were you on a taxiway just off of -- of the runway?
[14:59:53]
ESPAILLAT: No, we were, you know, on the line to sort of like, take off as I saw. And another plane sort of like turned and clipped the wings of our plane.
KEILAR: This -- this plane that turned, I mean, can you explain -- you'd think that they would be able to see you.
