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Xi Says China Isn't Afraid; Art Hogan is Interviewed About the Stock Markets; Steve Greenspon is Interviewed about Tariff Effects on his Business; Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) is Interviewed about China. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 11, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

ROY WOOD JR., HOST, "HAVE I GOT NEWS FOR YOU": WOOD: Has found a new way to celebrate, that's not a gun, but still violent. And I think it's great. And John Moran (ph) need to keep coming up with new ways to tick off the NBA. I'm with it. He's shooting guns, throwing grenades, rocket launchers. Whatever you can come up with, John Moran, do it.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

WOOD: I need some entertainment. I'm sorry to be an agent of chaos today.

DEAN: Well, we - that's - that's the theme of, I don't know, life right now, chaos. It's always chaos, right?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

DEAN: Roy Wood Jr., always good to see you.

WOOD: Thank you.

DEAN: Have a great show.

Pollster and commentator Kristen Soltis Anderson and comedian Eugene Mirman are going to join "Have I Got News For You" on a new episode. It's tomorrow night, 9:00 p.m. on CNN.

And a new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

BOLDUAN: No, I need Jordans too. Get me some.

All right, just 30 minutes from now, U.S. markets open. Investigators gearing - Investigators. No. It does need investigating, but I'm talking about investors gearing up for another wild day after China counterpunched against the United States, pushing tariffs on U.S. goods now to 125 percent. A big question as we begin the day is, between Trump and Xi, who will blink first?

And an investigation is underway over a tragedy in New York. Six people killed, including three children, when a sightseeing helicopter fell from the sky, plunging into the Hudson River below. And here's a question that a lot of people are talking about, is

former Vice President Kamala Harris plotting a political comeback? John Berman and Sara Sidner are out today. I am Kate Bolduan, joined by Jessica Dean. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

We are less than 30 minutes away now. We're going to go here and we're going to come back to here. Thirty minutes away now from opening bell on Wall Street. What are the markets going to do today now that China has punched back, hiking up its retaliatory tariffs on the United States - on U.S. goods to 125 percent.

And new this morning, Chinese President Xi Jinping says his country is, quote/unquote, "not afraid." This is part of his very first public comments since this slugfest began.

And President Trump, yesterday, expressed some optimism that the countries will eventually cut a deal. But White House officials say China has to pick up the phone first. And then, new this morning, a new warning from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of the nation's largest bank, JP Morgan Chase. He is saying, quote, "the economy is facing considerable turbulence."

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. Marc Stewart is in Beijing.

Marc, talk to us about how China is hitting back and what they are planning.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Kate, Here we go again. China is retaliating further against the United States, raising tariffs to 125 percent on American imports. But, and this but is important, China says it will not raise tariffs any higher. Instead, it will use other tools if needed.

Also significant is the response that we're getting from the Chinese government. It's almost making fun of the United States about this back and forth. Let me share with you a statement from the Chinese Ministry of Commerce, saying that when we look at what's happening, this is nothing more than a numbers game with no real economic significance. Going so far as to say that the United States is turning itself into a joke. Some very strong words from the Ministry of Commerce.

The other big headline we're tracking tonight from Beijing are the remarks by Chinese Leader Xi Jinping, who said that China is not afraid. He made those remarks in a meeting with the Spanish prime minister. And according to state media, he went on to say, no winners in a tariff war and that China will remain confident and stay focused. Very consistent with the messaging that we have heard from other government officials all along.

I also want to talk about the timing of all of this. President Xi is about to go on a road trip of sorts to Vietnam, Cambodia and Malaysia. These are nations where China has - has established and is strengthening strong economic ties. A sign to the world that it doesn't need the United States to survive and to thrive economically. And, Kate, as far as this idea of President Xi picking up the phone

first, that is not very likely. In fact, the messaging that we're getting from Beijing at this point is that China is in this for the long haul.

BOLDUAN: All right, Marc, stick - stick with me. Let's go to the White House. Alayna Treene standing by.

So, you've got the White House saying they want China to pick up the phone first. As you heard from Marc, they're not inclined to do that. But what are you hearing from the White House then this morning just of the news of - of China counterpunching?

[09:05:07]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, they were slow to have an immediate reaction. But then the United States trade representative, excuse me, Jamieson Greer was asked this directly on Fox News.

Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIESON GREER, U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: I mean I would say that the Chinese reaction this morning is - is not terribly surprising, but certainly unfortunate. No one else has retaliated against these reciprocal tariffs yet. China got out ahead and decided to do it. And - and that's why they're in a different category than the rest at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, Kate, he's saying this is why China is being treated differently than all of the other countries who, of course, the president earlier this week pressed pause on for 90 days with those reciprocal tariffs. China, of course, the United States has only increased those tariffs.

Look, we will hear from the president later today. He is going to be leaving this morning headed to Walter Reed for his annual physical. You can expect this to be one of the first questions that reporters ask him.

But I also caught up with the trade representative, Jamieson Greer there, at the White House following that appearance on Fox News, and I asked him, you know, to further expand and be more specific on what President Xi Jinping had said this morning. He would not answer that. But then we also asked him, you know, are you engaging in talks with the Chinese about this trade war? He said, not at this point.

All to say, we have some new reporting that essentially, and this is from my conversations with White House officials, that the president has been telling his team that he wants China to be the ones to call him. And specifically they want President Xi Jinping to get on the phone with President Donald Trump. As Marc laid out, that's unlikely at this point. And really, it is a question of who blinks first, because what's becoming increasingly clear is this - this strategy of not having communications, the waiting for the other one to come to the table first is untenable, particularly as we're seeing this escalation in this trade war.

BOLDUAN: Alayna Treene. Thank you so much, Alayna.

Marc Stewart in Beijing, thank you, guys, very much.

Jessica.

DEAN: And joining me now is Art Hogan, the chief market strategist for B. Riley Financial.

Art, good morning to you.

We are waiting for the markets to open to see kind of how this all plays out. What are you anticipating? How are you watching this moment?

ART HOGAN, CHIEF MARKET STRATEGIST, B. RILEY FINANCIAL: Well, I'll tell you this, it's going to be very difficult for the markets to find any stability unless and until we get to a place where some of the negotiations turn into some trade deals. So, right now, you know, living off every headline and in large part economic data is being ignored.

So, if you look at this morning's PPI, which was much cooler than expected, and yesterday's CPI came in at a similar fashion, last week's jobs number largely don't make a difference in the market right now. What the market cares about is the end game. And the end game really starts with the first deal that's announced. Whether that's with Canada and Mexico or Japan or the Eurozone or India. I don't think that will matter that much. It will show that somehow there's a process to make some of these tariffs go away.

So, right now we're sort of in that fog of trade war that's very difficult for investors to get any stability and confidence in the market.

DEAN: Yes. And experts have said that at this moment, to your point about, you know, what - is there a deal that could be made? There's no obvious off ramp for especially what's going on with this escalation with China. Do you agree with that assessment?

HOGAN: I do. Yes. At the end of the day, very much like in 2018, this is really all about China, right? And if you remember, in 2018, during that trade war, there were threats made to the, you know, (INAUDIBLE) cut (INAUDIBLE) it took - it took the White House a couple of years to actually get to a place with China where they felt more comfortable in trade. And every, you know, the China trade talk is going well headline produced a positive reaction in the markets, and then that was torn away as soon as we found out that they haven't moved any closer. We're hoping, and I think this is important, that having gone through

this process before we get to a place much faster, because if tariff rates that we're seeing north of 100 percent from both countries, it's not really a trade tariff. It's really an embargo. That will stop all sorts of trade, which is going to cause all sorts of shortages, which is certainly going to cause a great deal of inflation. And if that is what the bond market is reacting to, I think that's one thing the White House has proven they don't want to see. They don't want to see the inflation piece, but they certainly don't want to see the lack of credibility in the United States Treasury market and the U.S. dollar.

DEAN: Yes. And you - you note in your recent analysis, this has been the most - the fourth most volatile week in the economy in 60 years. You note that the others included Black Monday, the global financial crisis and Covid.

This is all self-inflicted, driven by these policies, a pretty immediate fallout from these policies. How else would you say that this moment is different from those others you note?

[09:10:03]

HOGAN: Causeal (ph), right. So, this being self-inflicted and the cause is basically faulty trade policy. So, starting with tariffs to begin with, and there's no economists that will say that that's good policy, strategically used to protect very important industries in your country perhaps, but universally applied, makes no economic sense. So, we're coming from a place where we're not using logic, and now we're trying to pull back from that illogical trade policy and cut trade deals, which may, at the end of the day, wipe out most of the tariffs we're doing. But in the interim what happens is both enterprises and consumers and investors freeze up and don't make right decisions. And that's what we're seeing right now.

So, we're doing economic damage, self-inflicted economic damage with the uncertainty that ensues. And this isn't just this week. This has been for the last two months.

DEAN: Right.

HOGAN: And unless and until we get to a place where we can start to see some exit ramps, the market and the economy are really suffering.

DAN: All right, more to come.

Art Hogan, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us this hour, we are following breaking news. The president's envoy, Steve Witkoff, has landed in Russia. And we are getting word that he is set to meet with Vladimir Putin today.

Also, it was like a helicopter disintegrating in midair. That is how one eyewitness described the tragic helicopter crash that killed six people. We have the latest on the investigation into trying to figure out what went wrong.

And the Supreme Court has now ordered the Trump administration to return a Maryland man to the United States. A man who they mistakenly deported and sent to a notorious prison in El Salvador. There's a court hearing set for today, with the judge now demanding a response from the government.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:18]

DEAN: Let's take a look at some headlines we're following this morning.

President Trump's foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, is in Russia. The Kremlin has just confirmed he will be meeting with President Putin. Witkoff arrived early this morning and met with a Russian negotiator, Kirill Dmitriev, in Saint Petersburg, where Putin is also on a working trip. According to Russian state media, Putin and Witkoff will discuss Ukraine. The Kremlin reportedly calling it a, quote, "good opportunity" to convey Russia's position to Trump.

And the Supreme Court has ruled the Trump administration must, in its words, "facilitate" the return of a Maryland father who was deported by mistake to a notorious El Salvador prison nearly a month ago. The decision that both the attorneys for the deported man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and the Trump administration, say is victorious for them. The justices did say the U.S. government needs to, quote, "facilitate" Abrego Garcia's return, but the court did not make clear exactly how that's supposed to happen, and also did not set a deadline for his return.

And this morning the FAA and the NTSB are investigating Thursday's deadly helicopter crash into the Hudson River. A family of five visiting New York from Spain and the helicopter's pilot were all killed. And the tragic final moments of their flight was caught on camera. I do want to warn you that that video is very difficult to watch. Bystanders reported seeing the helicopter spinning out of control. The video then shows it simply dropping from the sky, crashing into the Hudson River upside down. Four were pronounced dead at the scene, two others died later at the hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: River traffic, be advised. You do have an aircraft down Holland Tunnel. Please keep your eyes open for anybody in the water.

Please keep your eyes open. You guys see anything in the water, please let us know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we're just circling over Holland now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN has learned the charter company operating the helicopter was previously involved in two safety incidents investigated by Federal Aviation Authorities.

Very soon now the markets are going to open on Wall Street. Take a look at futures right now. All down. We're going to take a look and keep an eye on this to see how it evolves as they open. We'll tell you how investors are capping off what has been an incredibly turbulent week.

Plus, Tesla is hitting pause on the sale of some models in China. How the automaker is investigating the escalating trade war between the U.S. and China.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:23:17]

DEAN: Many small businesses across the country fear they could reach a breaking point because of President Trump's tariffs. They are facing steep cost hikes, tighter margins, and, most of all, a lot of uncertainty.

Joining me now is one of those small business owners, Steve Greenspan. He's the CEO of Honey-Can-Do International. It's a storage and organizational company.

Steve, thanks so much for being here with us this morning. We really appreciate you sharing your story.

Let's start first with just how this economic uncertainty is affecting your business.

STEVE GREENSPON, CEO AND FOUNDER, HONEY-CAN-DO-INTERNATIONAL: Good morning, Jessica. It's an honor to be here.

The uncertainty is really the worst part of this. You cannot make investments. You cannot change your strategy. You cannot do anything because you don't know how to pivot. You know, tell us the rules and we'll do what we can to follow those. But there's a 90-day pause, which means business as usual. But we don't know what the world is going to look like after those 90-days. And even if we did, you're talking about millions of dollars and months and months and possibly years' worth of investments in order to do a pivot to - to a new country or change strategies. And that's the worst part is just a little bit of chaos that's right - that's out there right now.

DEAN: Absolutely. That's certainly understandable.

What questions do you think you need answered to - that would ease any of this uncertainty?

GREENSPON: It's - well, why are inexpensive household products being pulled into this. And products that don't really involve the nation's defense or the nation's health or the nation's security.

[09:25:02]

Products that cannot be made in the United States. And we don't want them to be made in the United States because of environmental hazards or low pay, or they just don't make sense. And also, the infrastructure does not exist in the United States anymore to be able to make these products here.

You know, it's, you know, this is infecting, you know, impacting thousands and thousands of small businesses here in the United States, as well as the hundreds of thousands of jobs that go with those small companies that are impacted.

DEAN: Yes, and I did want to ask you about that because it's not just about your bottom line as the business owner. You employ a lot of employees. And you probably use different vendors to supplement your business. So, this starts to ripple out pretty quickly, I would imagine. What does it look like for you in terms of the people that you're also supporting with this small business?

GREENSPON: Once the tariffs were announced, we looked at - we - we're going to see a drop in demand. There's no question about it. Our products and those in the housewares industry are discretionary. If the pricing goes up, there's going to be less demand for the products. People are going to find ways to do without or to continue use of their current products rather than replace them. So, you have to look at reducing expenses. And with our types of companies where we design products, subcontract to manufacturing and distribute them through retailers in the United States, labor is the biggest component of that. So, when you look at reducing expenses, it's going to be - labor is one of the first things that you look at certainly. And you're certainly not investing in your future. And you're looking at, how are you going to survive when you get smaller.

DEAN: Yes. It's some tough questions. Steve Greenspon, thank you for walking us through what you're experiencing. We really appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much.

We are just minutes away now from opening bell on Wall Street and everyone is buckling up once again, waiting and watching to see what kind of roller coaster ride today will be. Yesterday saw a big sell- off, erasing a chunk of the historic rally from the day before. Everyone facing again today another new reality, with China now hitting back again, hiking its tariffs on U.S. goods to 125 percent. And also a message to President Trump that this trade war is not cooling off, offering, in his first public comments since the slugfest began, China's President Xi Jinping declared his country is not afraid.

Joining us right now is Democratic Congressman Jim Clyburn from South Carolina.

Congressman, thank you. It's good to see you. Thanks for coming in. We're wait - we're looking at - I'm looking at futures over on the wall over there right now and they're now pointing down. We'll see what happens when the market opens. But seeing now that - that China has counterpunched, how much further do you think this goes before these two leaders pick up the phone? And do you want Trump to be the first to call, or do you think the White House should wait for Xi to pick up the phone first?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me. You know, I used to read a lot of biographies when I was coming along. And I'll never forget one that I read when the very successful businessman, in fact, the guy who made Coca-Cola famous, said that there's no limit to what you can get accomplished if you don't get hung up on who gets the credit.

I think that what we need to do now is to get some things accomplished and not worry about who does it first or who gets the credit. Let's just do what's best for the American people.

And I'm particularly interested about - about China here most especially. The small farmers and the big farmers here in South Carolina. We sell over half of our soybeans to China. We cannot consume, within the boundaries of the - of South Carolina all that our farmers produce. They have to have markets abroad in order to make a good living. And so, I want to see this come to an end, all of this gotcha business. It's not good for the American people. And look what has happened with the 25 percent on Canada and Mexico.

What Peter Navarro had to say the other day about BMW here in South Carolina, Mercedes Benz. Eleven thousand South Carolinians work at that BMW plant that he says is bad for this country. Sixteen hundred South Carolinians work down in North Charleston for the Mercedes plant. And when you add up all of the ancillaries and the providers, we're talking about over 50,000 jobs here in little old South Carolina, all being affected by this gotcha business.

[09:30:09]

And so I...