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White House Doubles Down On Trump's Optimism For China Deal, But Refuses To Explain Why; Trump Tariffs To Cost Average Household $4,700 Per Year; U.S. Markets Volatile As China Retaliates With 125 Percent Tariff; U.S. Consumer Sentiment Plummets To Second-lowest Level On Record; E.U. Official Says Remaining 10 Percent Tariff A Blow To Global Economy; A Judge To Rule On Columbia Activist Khalil's Release Soon; GOP Lawmakers May Be Poised To Kill Thousands Of Their Voters' Jobs; Associated Press Reports Social Security Lists Thousands Of Living Immigrants As Deceased; Six Killed After Tourist Helicopter Crashes Into Hudson River. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 11, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:40]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Some investors asking about the president's judgment on some of his decisions when it comes to tariffs as it leads to this trade war between the U.S. and China. And under investigation, a family of five and their pilot killed after sightseeing in a helicopter, and that chopper appearing to break apart then plunge into the Hudson River. We will have new details about the charter company's history.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Plus, a shocking diagnosis, TV star Eric Dane revealing he's been diagnosed with ALS, an incurable and untreatable disease with a fatal prognosis. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

KEILAR: Wall Street really being rocked here as they're watching what is happening in this trade war between the U.S. and China. Many, many concerns as we see this escalating trade war. Let's listen. Let's go to that soundbite.

This is a top investor writing in a new report. In the last few days, we have had many conversations with macro fund managers and their concern is that the White House is not acting rationally, but rather on ideology. Those words dropping as the White House just moments ago had this to say about the escalating trade war with China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president, as I said from the podium just a few days ago when I was up here, would be gracious if China intends to make a deal with the United States. If China continues to retaliate, it's not good for China, but the President has made it very clear he's open to a deal with China. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is he optimistic that China is going to make a deal or wants to make a deal if they're not talking? Where does that optimism come from?

LEAVITT: He's optimistic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The White House not giving much more than just the president is optimistic. The basis for that still unclear. Here is where the trade war stands right now. 145 percent going up against 125 percent. These are the tariffs between the world's two biggest economies.

KEILAR: And here's another number, $4,700 or about $400 per month. That is how much more money Yale is now estimating -- the Yale Budget Lab, that President Trump's tariffs are going to cost average households each year. And with just hours left in trading, the Dow right now up, you're seeing that swing here going into the afternoon, up almost 650 points. But it was up and down there throughout earlier in the day.

With us now, we have CNN Business Editor at Large, Richard Quest. We have CNN Chief National Security Analyst, Jim Sciutto as well. Richard, a key economic gage. The consumer sentiment now at its second lowest level on record, going back to 1952, why?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: We shouldn't be surprised with all that's coming out and all the worries about tariffs. It's not just that, it's the complexity of everything else as well. The changes within the federal government, the worries about job losses, the worries about a slowing economy, higher inflation. And eventually, you get these what's known as soft data, surveys like the Michigan Survey consumer sentiment. And it's a really worrying number because at some point, these sentiment surveys feed into hard data of real consumer spending. And we know this from history and precedent, that's what happens.

So when we see a number as bad as this one, it is only a matter of time, unless anything else changes that would suddenly make people more cheerful. Look at that chart. I mean, just look at it. Unless people suddenly become more cheerful, why would this not translate into spending? You see that consumer lab, that lab from Yale, that number of $4,700 that is providing you don't start substituting goods. In other words, pre-substitution.

If we just continue as we are now, but of course, people will start to substitute, they will find other goods. And as the Christmas Tree Association said a moment or two ago, it's going to be very difficult to find substitution of many things that we currently get from China.

[14:05:00]

SANCHEZ: Yeah, you'll be surprised just how much we get exclusively from China. And Jim, I'm really curious to get your perspective on the White House's handling of this situation. Not so much that the tariffs that have been announced, but this reporting that the White House, that officials have made clear to Beijing that they want Xi to ask for a call with Trump.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: Trump hasn't reached out directly.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: What do you make of that approach?

SCIUTTO: And the White House saying they want Xi to reach out for it?

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: Can you get any more high school in matters of state? It's ridiculous.

KEILAR: Xi's got to call me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. And listen, what's interesting is, as I was reporting yesterday, the Chinese impression is that they are willing to at least negotiate, not necessarily on Donald Trump's terms, but to talk. But their impression is that the U.S. has not opened channels and not made an effort to open up channels to allow that. So now, you have the U.S. president say, well, I'm not going to open those channels. China has to open them first.

It is kind of ridiculous at the end of the day because you are playing with the interests of American consumers, Chinese consumers, et cetera. The other point I would make about China's reaction today in not quite meeting the U.S. tariffs, 145 percent U.S., China goes to 125 percent. And in Xi's statement he says, we're going to 125 percent in response. That's as high as we're going because this is getting a little ridiculous, right? And that's supposed to signal to say we're not going to get caught up in this tit for tat to the degree that the president is. But it's also an opening to say, OK, we're capping this for now. And that perhaps offers a way forward that we could begin talking about how to bring these down.

KEILAR: You've lived in China. You've covered China for some time now. As we're looking at this question of who's going to blink first.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

KEILAR: With two very different political systems, what is your gage on this?

SCIUTTO: Well, different systems, listen, one is a democracy, one is not. One is a single-party state, very much not a democracy, but China does have politics and Chinese leaders do not want to be seen -- we were talking about this yesterday, I believe -- do not want to be seen as capitulating to America. That is not good politics for a Chinese leader. Long colonial history to go back into, we could talk for hours, but they don't want to be seen as kowtowing to the west here.

So, the brow beating is not a great diplomatic strategy and we've seen that in the past as well. Now, we should say Donald Trump mixes in with the tariff brow beating some comments about how good a friend he is with Xi. But, we will see if the door has been closed for now or if there's a little bit of an opening and perhaps they start opening those channels.

SANCHEZ: Richard, it's interesting to explore the power that the E.U. has now because they can tip the scales in terms of how impactful these tariffs will be for either nation, depending on where negotiations land.

QUEST: So you've got the Spanish prime minister in Beijing. You've got the E.U. basically saying, well, we're going to start looking at other markets. I think this will most certainly give a huge boost to China-E.U. relations to try and complete some form of trade agreement because everybody is now wanting to circum-navigate the United States. Now you can't, up to a point, there are certain things, there are certain inalienable bonds of trade between the E.U. and the U.S. That doesn't mean to say you can't reduce it, your reliance,

And just as much as the U.S. is now saying, we want to reduce our reliance on China, we want to make sure we are no longer strategically dependent. The E.U. absolutely is saying, is there a deal to be done with Brazil (inaudible)? Is there a deal to be done with ASEAN, a stronger one? Jim, can I ask you -- can I just ask Jim? Do you think -- sorry guys. But do you think that the Xi statement is actually a sort of a -- not a white flag, but just a sort of an olive branch that both sides can now take to move forward?

SCIUTTO: I think it has two sides to it. One, it's a bit of a message to the U.S. to say, this is silly.

QUEST: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: This is getting silly. We're not going to play this game of chicken. But Xi Jinping also by not going right up to the level of U.S. tariffs --

QUEST: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: I think one can look at that as a small opening for discussions. Both of them want to talk. Now the question is, I suppose who picks up the phone first? That's where we are.

QUEST: You see Boris, Brianna, that's what happens when you get two anchors who are also your guests.

(LAUGH)

QUEST: Because I will just hijack the whole thing.

SCIUTTO: He did it, by the way, just so you know.

(LAUGH)

SCIUTTO: I only answered.

SANCHEZ: No objections here over who calls who first or who asks what question.

KEILAR: We are all friends.

SANCHEZ: It's a fun conversation and we appreciate it. Richard. Quest, Jim Sciutto, thank you both.

[14:10:00]

So happening right now, an immigration judge in Louisiana is holding a hearing on whether to release Palestinian activist and Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Khalil, who's a legal permanent resident, was arrested by federal agents last month though he has not actually been accused of any crimes. The judge had told the Trump administration to turn over evidence supporting its order to deport Khalil.

With us now to discuss is Retired New York State Supreme Court Judge Diane Kiesel. Diane, thank you so much for being with us.

JUDGE DIANE KIESEL, RETIRED NEW YORK STATE SUPREME COURT: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: The government's memo says that Khalil is deportable because of his beliefs, statement or associations that would compromise U.S. foreign policy interests. Do you think the judge will agree with the government?

KIESEL: I would be shocked if the judge agreed with the government on that basis. There is something that every college kid knows, nevermind every attorney, that there's a First Amendment in this country. We have a right to freedom of speech, freedom of association, and the idea that what this gentleman has to say may disagree or contrast, if you will, with the United States foreign policy is of no moment. He has a right to -- you have a right to your opinion in this country.

SANCHEZ: The administration would argue that it's gone beyond his opinion in this case, saying that he's made life difficult for Jewish students on campus, that he's part of this group that has vandalized and held up classes. Where is the line there between holding an opinion and expressing it, and an action which infringes on the rights of others, at least that's the allegation?

KIESEL: Well, remember, the standard line is you have a right to free speech, but you can't cry fire in a crowded theater. OK? You can't say something that would result in danger to others. But, the memo that has been presented, if you will, by Secretary Rubio, there's no fire in a crowded theater. There's no statement that he has somehow caused imminent harm to any particular person, group, entity. I think we're far short of that, even if he is saying things that may be upsetting. Look, it's upsetting that anti-Semitic statements are being made, but this is the United States of America.

SANCHEZ: It is notable that he's not actually been accused of providing any kind of material support or intellectual support to Hamas in the form of recruitment or anything else. I want to ask you about the basis with which the Secretary, Secretary Rubio is making this argument. It's the provision in the Immigration and Nationality Act, which essentially gives the Secretary of State the power to determine someone's legal status in the country. Has that provision been utilized this way before? Is there any kind of precedent for what we're watching unfold now?

KIESEL: Not that I know of in any recent history. You'd probably have to go back to the Alien Sedition Act back in, before the First World War to find something comparable. But, this is highly unusual and in your last hour, you had the New York Civil Liberties Union person on, and I think everything she had to say is absolutely spot on. I mean, we live in a democracy and all of us need to be concerned about this.

SANCHEZ: Judge, I also wanted to get your thoughts on the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, this Maryland man that the government admits was accidentally deported back to El Salvador. It is sad that it happened, as ironic as it is now that they're trying to weave the Supreme Court decision into some kind of argument that they actually sided with the government in this case. I wonder what you make of this, this distinction between facilitating his return and effectuating his return.

KIESEL: I don't make that much of it. Bottom line is the United States Supreme Court said, albeit not in terribly strong language, nonetheless, the United States Supreme Court said, this gentleman needs -- you have to facilitate his return. Basically, the Supreme Court has stepped in here and said we have a right to have a say in this. And the fact that the executive has a right to make determinations about who stays in the country and who doesn't, doesn't mean there are not due process concerns and doesn't mean that the courts are cut out of this.

And I think the fact that you've got a nine-to-zero per curiam opinion is really significant here. Nobody is taking the 100 percent pro- Donald Trump line on this. Nobody in the courts, I mean.

SANCHEZ: Judge Diane Kiesel, always appreciate your perspective. Thanks for sharing it with Us.

KIESEL: Thank you for having me.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Still plenty more to come this afternoon.

[14:15:00]

The Trump administration has a new plan to force immigrants, including those with legal status, to self-deport. It involves making them appear legally dead. The fallout from this decision could be wide reaching. We have new reporting after a quick break. Plus, a family of five and a pilot killed after their sightseeing helicopter loses its rotor blades mid-air, plunging into the Hudson River. We have new details about the tour company behind the flight and some previous safety incidents on their record.

KEILAR: Plus, Republicans may be poised to fulfill President Trump's promise to kill Biden's Clean Energy Law and the tax credits that come with it, but there's just one problem. Doing so could kill thousands of jobs in their own districts. We have new reporting on the turmoil brewing behind the scenes. These important stories and more, all ahead on "CNN News Central."

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[14:20:12]

SANCHEZ: We're tracking some new developments in the Trump administration's crackdown on immigration. The Associated Press is reporting that the United States has begun classifying thousands of living immigrants as dead. This is part of an effort to make their lives so difficult that they self-deport according to the AP sources.

KEILAR: Here's the big picture here. Without a Social Security number, it is harder to work, can't open bank accounts or lines of credit. CNN's Rene Marsh is here on this story. Do we know how these migrants were chosen and if this will remain limited to them?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, a White House official is saying that these individuals are either -- either they have an FBI record or they are on a terror watch list, but they did not give any evidence or any further information to confirm that all 6,300 of these individuals who are now marked dead in Social Security systems, they didn't provide any evidence to back up that claim.

But again, as you point out, I mean this move, what it really does is financially starve these individuals. They don't have access to bank accounts. They don't have access to opening lines of credit, and as you said, makes it harder to work. And really, that is the goal for the administration. They are looking to essentially take away all financial incentives, so that these individuals self-deport. And it's not my assumption, it's actually in the statement from the White House where they essentially say that they are hoping that if financial and monetary incentives are taken away, that they will self-deport.

SANCHEZ: Is there an indication that this list is going to grow soon, that it's going to expand?

MARSH: I have heard from at least one source that we should expect that even more individuals could experience that their names are moved from Social Security systems to being alive to this so-called dead list.

I was just speaking with the former Head of Social Security, administrator, the Former Commissioner under President Biden, Martin O'Malley and he said this, and it's really -- he was really alarmed by this move. He said, if they can, contrary to the law and contrary to regulation and without due process, mark people inside the Social Security Administration's database as dead, who legally entered the country, who legally were given these Social Security numbers, then they can do that to anyone.

And so, he is really raising an alarm that it goes -- it's bigger than just 6,000 people and he has some real concerns about how broad this will become. KEILAR: There have been some reports that it initially would be looking at folks who maybe they've committed crimes or they've been charged with something, but then expanding it.

MARSH: Yeah, I mean, we don't -- what we know right now for sure is this 6,300 individuals. We certainly know that there are plans to expand that number. We also know the White House is claiming that these are people who are criminals essentially, but they're not supplying any evidence to support those claims, Brianna. But again, this is also raising concerns amongst Democrats on Capitol Hill as well, as you can imagine.

KEILAR: All right, Rene, thank you so much for that.

SANCHEZ: Now to another growing concern, this one over President Trump's promise to terminate Biden-era tax credits for clean energy, what President Trump calls the Green New Scam. Slashing it could end up killing tens of thousands of U.S. jobs, including manufacturing jobs, which the president insists he's working to bring back to the United States.

KEILAR: Yeah. And Red States could be hardest hit here. Data shows that nearly 80 percent of investments sparked by former President Biden's signature Climate Law has been in Republican Congressional districts, and that's triggering a battle between Republicans on the Hill. CNN Hill Reporter Annie Grayer is covering this for us. Annie, tell us the details here.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: So, Republicans on Capitol Hill are looking for spending cuts across the board and these clean energy tax credits are on the chopping block. Now, back in 2022, when they first went into effect under President Joe Biden, no Republicans supported these tax credits. But since then, they've gotten to see the benefits in their districts. If you were to look at the 20 districts across the country right now that have the most outstanding funding and jobs, most of them are in Republican districts.

So as you can see there, over 150,000 jobs are on the line represented by Republicans compared to 50,000 jobs to be had in Democratic districts. Now, the Republicans that I talked to who are fighting this, acknowledge that this is an uphill battle for them, that they're making the case privately to their colleagues, even House Speaker Mike Johnson, about why these tax credits need to stay in effect.

[14:25:00]

But it's a diff difficult tightrope for them to walk because they didn't support the tax credits initially. They were passed under Democratic administration, and they want to balance that with their support for President Trump. You also have the looming trade war between the U.S. and China. So these clean energy tax credits could continue to play an important role for U.S. manufacturers as they try and become more energy independent on their own. So, these developments are continuing to play out on Capitol Hill and the tensions on this are really starting to ramp up. KEILAR: Yeah, certainly. Annie Grayer, thank you so much. And next, we have some new details about that deadly helicopter crash into the Hudson River near New York City. We're learning that both the charter company and the aircraft model have a history of incidents.

SANCHEZ: Plus, we're hearing from small business owners impacted by President Trump's tariffs, they're warning that buying American isn't as simple or as cost effective as one might think. We'll be right back.

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