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Trump Administration Say It's Not Required To Help Bring Wrongly Deported Man Back To U.S.; Blue Origin All-Female Crew Space Flight To Lift Off At 9:30 AM ET; Russia Launches More Attacks After Sumy Tragedy. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 14, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Take a look at stock futures right now. You can see they are pointed upward in advance of the opening bell. And investors seem to be reacting to the president -- or the White House backtracking on tariffs on electronics, including smartphones and computers -- though after they backtracked, they forward tracked. Is that what you would call it? They reversed themselves again and again and again.

With us now is chief economist at Moody's Analytics, Mark Zandi.

So what about that? First, tariffs on everything. Then over the weekend, quietly, a pause or an exemption for smartphones and computers. But then yesterday, Lutnick and others saying no, no, no, no, no -- no exemption. Exemption is a four-letter word here.

What are investors supposed to take away from this?

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS (via Webex by Cisco): I'm not sure, John. It's -- I've got whiplash from all of it. You know, on again, off again. Which country, which product, over what period of time. I mean, I -- this can't be good. I mean, I know businesses are sitting on their hands because they can't make hide nor hair of what's going on and so they can't make a decision here and can't -- they can't invest, can't trade.

You know, investors obviously are glued to the ups and downs and all- arounds on the trade policy. So today it's up -- at least at this moment it's up. It could be down big-time an hour or two from now when the market opens.

Consumers are concerned about it. They can't figure out what's going on and they're going to start seeing prices rise here pretty quickly.

So, you know, we've talked about it a lot, John -- the uncertainty. The uncertainty is very thick and as long as it continues it's going to be a heavy weight on the economy. And another couple, three, four more weeks of this and I think we'll be in a recession.

BERMAN: Another three or four weeks of this in a recession. ZANDI: Yeah. I just don't see any way around it. I mean, I think -- I still hope that the president and the administration kind of finds an off ramp here and the trade war de-escalates. I don't know if we're ever going to get back to the kind of tariffs we had before but if they back down to something that's more manageable and stable then maybe we are -- we're able to navigate through.

But once the price increases start -- you know, that's a tax increase on American consumers in the form of higher prices -- it's going to start to weaken consumer spending and consumers are already on edge and ready to pull back. If they pull back that's when businesses start laying off workers. And once that happens -- once the layoffs begin it's too late. We're in a recession.

BERMAN: Let's take a stab at talking about the bond market, which I think a lot of us who are not experts over the last week we've heard a lot about it. We hear that that's what spooked the president for him to back off the reciprocal tariffs. The bond market is still unhappy with the White House even as it continues to back off and pause things.

What you're looking at right now on the screen -- what our viewers are -- is the chart of the 10-year bond yield. And what people need to know is that when the chart goes up, in theory that's a problem. And there is a sharp increase over the last few weeks.

But my question, Mark, is that it's a sharp increase but it's still lower. The yields are still lower than they've been at times in the past. So what is so concerning to you and others about this sharp increase?

ZANDI: Yeah, it's a great question.

In times of crises like the ones we're in, obviously, now -- this one self-induced but it's a crisis nonetheless -- global investors flock to the United States. They come buy our bonds and buy our other assets. They view us as the global safe haven. This has been the case for a couple of centuries. We've been the place that people go.

We're money good, you know. If you've got a problem anywhere on the planet -- even back in the financial crisis the problem started here but people viewed us as the safe haven and the AAA credit -- the money comes flowing in. And that's really important because that brings down interest rates and the cost of borrowing, and it allows for the availabity of credit in a very difficult time.

But this go-around instead of that happening, instead of global investors coming here, they're staying away, and even moving away from us, and that's causing interest rates to rise.

So you're right. The increase is still small -- about half a percentage point -- but it's going in the wrong direction. Instead of it being down a half a point we're now up a half a point and headed in the wrong direction here.

And even more worrisome than that it suggests that we're losing that safe haven status, right? We're no longer the AAA credit and we're going to be hurt by that going forward. We're going to lose that benefit. It's been an enormous benefit to our economy. It's part of our secret sauce in the economy and it feels like it's going away. And, you know, for what reason it's hard to fathom why we'd be -- we would be doing this.

BERMAN: There are some short-term implications and also some long-term implications from that as well, obviously.

Mark Zandi, appreciate you sharing on all of this. Check out Mark's Twitter feed because he explains it really well there as well -- the whole issue with safe haven. Thanks, Mark -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about the impacts on this all politically as well. Joining us right now is CNN senior political commentator and Republican strategist David Urban. And Democratic strategist and consultant Simon Rosenberg. It's good to see you, guys.

David, the way the Playbook put it this morning is "Deja vu. Stop me if you've heard this one before. All eyes are fixed on the U.S. economy's flickering dashboards again this morning after another rollercoaster weekend of tariff policy."

The exemptions put in place and then the rush to declare the move not an exemption -- no matter how sound the policy is or not, why do you think the White House is having -- continues to have a hard time explaining it?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: Because it's very complicated, Kate. I think it's very complicated across sectors, across countries.

I think that -- you know, we talked -- you referenced -- somebody referenced earlier in this segment that the CBS poll that came out over the weekend that says that Trump's not doing a good job explaining it to the American people so they're kind of lost. But what they do understand -- what the American people do understand -- roughly 50 percent of them -- is that these tariffs are going to result in more manufacturing jobs. They believe that's going to result in more manufacturing jobs for America, and that's the goal.

I think if the president and his cabinet talked about tariffs in conjunction with cutting regulatory kind of burdens across America in conjunction with lowering interest rates and tax cuts that are coming up on the reconciliation bill, I think Americans would feel a lot better that this was a part of an overall economic package and scheme that the Trump administration is pursuing. And that's what I understand they're doing. I wish they would just talk about it more in totality.

BOLDUAN: In totality.

And how were -- how everyone is talking about it actually, Simon, is something that James Carville is weighing in and saying this is a moment for Democrats to capitalize putting out a new opinion piece in The New York Times. It was titled "How to Turn Trump's Economic Chaos Against Him," and here is part of it.

"This is where the Democrats have an opening. In February I wrote a piece calling on my party's leaders to play dead, allowing the Republicans to punch themselves out and crumble beneath their own weight." It then says, "Now Democrats have an opportunity to allow the Republicans to edge closer to collapse as the party is full -- as the party in full control of Washington. Let's please not become the story again and get in their way."

And he goes kind of point-by-point on his suggestions, which is focus on prices. Don't talk about the market; talk about 401ks. Make the message local is kind of just part of his suggestion.

What do you think of this, and do you think Democrats can do it?

SIMON ROSENBERG, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND CONSULTANT (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah. I mean, first of all, I think it's just really important to realize that Donald Trump has done all of this to himself. The plummeting poll numbers. We have the second lowest consumer confidence rating in the last 70 years right now according to the University of Michigan last week. We've seen the economy slow, prices go up. Interest rates are going up. I mean, this has been the worst first 100 days of any president in American history.

And I think Democrats need to be very aggressive. He's down right now for good reason. And I think we need to be aggressive and to make our case that not only do we disagree with this but to remind voters that we are the party of prosperity and opportunity. We are the ones who have repeatedly brought -- made the economy strong. They are the party that has repeatedly made the economy weak. And I think that we have a very strong case to make to the American people in the coming weeks.

BOLDUAN: David, if Democrats would --

URBAN: You know, Kate, I would just --

BOLDUAN: Go ahead, David.

URBAN: I was going to say Kate, I would just say the rebuttal to that and what the Trump administration believes wholeheartedly and this president full-throatedly for many, many years is how do we fix -- how do we stop the systemic hemorrhaging of jobs overseas. It started a long time ago through Republican presidents and Democratic presidents. We've allowed our manufacturing, whether it's steel, whether it's aluminum, whether it's tube socks, to go overseas.

[07:40:07]

How do we get that back? There's going to be some pain in getting that back. I'm sure that Democrats and Republicans alike want to see jobs -- high-paying, good jobs coming back to this country -- not service sector, not jobs in the gig economy. People want to make things here in our country and getting to that point is very difficult.

Look, in that poll, 60 percent -- roughly 60 percent of people said that they believe that Trump is using these tariffs as a leverage to get those jobs. Fifty percent say they're going to get those jobs back --

BOLDUAN: Right.

URBAN: -- in this country. And I think everybody wants to see more manufacturing here. If we don't have manufacturing this country can't continue on the pace of being a global dominant player with just a gig economy.

BOLDUAN: Let me -- let me pull that into what you're pointing out and the other side of it -- of that poll as well because it does pose an interesting kind of question, which is -- as you were saying -- along with what you were citing, David, 60 percent disapprove of how he's dealing with inflation. Fifty-three percent think that the economy is getting worse under his watch. Fifty-six percent say that they do not approve of his handling of the economy right now.

And when you fold in what you were suggesting, David, I wonder how long -- and this is the political -- this is like -- this is a strategy question. How long do you anticipate Americans are willing to wait for what you're talking about -- for the turnaround in order to feel it because right now --

URBAN: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- they're making clear they don't?

URBAN: Yeah, and in that poll, it says a couple of months, right? That's what the poll -- the CBS poll says -- a few months -- that's what they're willing to give this president.

And listen, unfortunately, we got here over decades. For decades we shipped jobs overseas. Remember Ross Perot and that giant sucking sound? Remember that? That was how many years ago was that occurring? And so this has been taking place over generations.

When you go to my hometown of Aliquippa, Pennsylvania, that happened in the '70s and '80s. Those jobs -- those steel jobs and jobs in the aluminum industry in Pennsylvania went elsewhere over a long period of time. So to think that this Trump administration could fix it in two weeks is a little naive.

BOLDUAN: Well, I also --

URBAN: Listen, I think Donald Trump's goals are laudable. We've got to make things here. We've got to make things in America.

BOLDUAN: Right --

ROSENBERG: Can I --

BOLDUAN: -- even in -- even in -- even in two months we'll see.

Final thought, Simon?

ROSENBERG: Yeah. I mean, we actually had a manufacturing job renaissance under Joe Biden, and we had the lowest unemployment rate in a peacetime America since World War II. We had an economic strategy that was working to achieve David's ends. This strategy isn't.

There is no scenario where America comes out of what Trump is doing now better than we were. We are going to come out of this poorer, weaker, less safe, and less free from these first 100 days of Trump.

And this notion that on the other end there is some kind of pot of gold where things are going to get better -- listen to Mark Zandi. I mean, we're seeing capital -- we are seeing capital flight out of the United States, the loss of safe haven. America is far weaker today because of Donald Trump.

BOLDUAN: I mean, what -- and Zandi's point is, like, we are at -- and what we've heard from a lot of the people involved with the Fed --

ROSENBERG: (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: -- is like we are at a decision-making moment where this could go long-term bad or turned around and be good. The uncertainty is definitely the place that we're swimming in right now. That's for sure.

URBAN: It's going to -- it's going to be good. It's going to be good, Kate. Have faith.

ROSENBERG: (Laughing).

BOLDUAN: One person I always have faith in is David Urban.

ROSENBERG: No reason to have faith in this guy.

BOLDUAN: I have faith in David Urban always.

It's good to you, guys.

URBAN: There you go. There you go.

BOLDUAN: Oh my God, Sara, take it.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, boy. All right.

Breaking overnight, the Trump administration doubling down, insisting it is not required to work with El Salvador to bring back a man who they admit was mistakenly deported to a notorious mega-prison. However, the Supreme Court, days ago, ordered the White House to "facilitate" getting him back to U.S. soil.

And in just a few hours, President Trump is set to meet with El Salvador's president at the White House.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has been tracking all of this. I guess what I don't understand is why can't President Trump just ask this El Salvadoran president to hand this father back over since they say they mistakenly sent him there. What is the administration saying in this fight? PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Sara, talk about timing. Against the backdrop of all this is when the president is going to meet with the very Trump-friendly president of El Salvador.

Now, what the Justice Department is saying is that they are not required to work with El Salvador -- officials in El Salvador to retrieve Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who the administration has conceded mistakenly deported him because of an "administrative error."

Now, the way that this filing came about is that after that Supreme Court decision last week that said that the administration must facilitate his return, though, stopped short of requiring his return.

A federal judge on Friday ordered the administration to provide daily updates. And it is in one of those updates filed yesterday that the administration said the following. "The federal courts have no authority to direct the executive branch to conduct foreign relations in a particular way or engage with a foreign sovereign in a given manner. That is the 'exclusive power of the president as the sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations.'"

[07:45:15]

And that is where the Supreme Court did give the administration some wiggle room, saying that there should be due deference to foreign relations. And that is exactly what the administration is leaning in on.

Now, in a day -- a day prior, Sara, I will say that the administration also said that Abrego Garcia is "alive and secure." That was something that the DOJ attorney couldn't say anything on, or at least didn't say anything on during a hearing on Friday. So it's the first time, in many ways, that they acknowledge that Kilmar Abrego Garcia is in El Salvador and, in this case, alive and secure.

But look, Sara, I have been covering this for some time and one thing sources have told me repeatedly is El Salvador is a key ally for this administration -- one that they plan to lean in on multiple times. And today they are going to talk about the notorious mega-prison where Abrego Garcia is being held.

So a lot more to come over the course of the day about this relationship and also potentially this case.

SIDNER: This family is waiting to see if there is any movement for him to come back home since the administration said it was a mistake. We will see what happens, and I know you'll be watching it closely.

Thank you so much. Priscilla Alvarez there for us from D.C. -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning the countdown is on for the launch of Blue Origin rocket carrying astronaut Katy Perry and the fiance of Jeff Bezos.

And a brain, an athlete, a basket case, a princess, and a criminal. The entire cast of "The Breakfast Club" reunited publicly for the first time in 40 years. Maybe they can talk about how Judd Nelson was robbed of an Academy Award.

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[07:51:22]

BERMAN: All right, the countdown is on. This morning Blue Origin is scheduled to launch the first all-female crew into space since 1963. The flight includes such renowned astronauts as Katy Perry.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is at the launch site in West Texas getting ready for the big moment. Ed, what can we expect?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no question this is a spectacle, as you mentioned. It's a star-studded crew that will be flying into the lower reaches of space here later this morning. In about an hour and a half, John, that window for the launch is expected to begin and that is when the New Shepard rocket system that is created by Blue Origin -- Jeff Bezos' space company -- will launch from here in far West Texas just north of the town of Van Horn.

And this crew includes, as you mentioned, Katy Perry. It also includes Lauren Sanchez, the fiance of Jeff Bezos who is also a helicopter pilot; Gayle King, the CBS News morning host; as well as -- as well as Kerianne Flynn who is filmmaker; Aisha Bowe, who is a research scientist; and Amanda Nguyen, who is also a research scientist as well. So it's the first time that Blue Origin has sent into space an all-female crew, so that is the headliners of this event here later tonight.

And just a short while ago Katy Perry posted a video where she is giving people a tour of the capsule she'll be riding in here later this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATY PERRY, SINGER: Singing "We're on the New Shepard."

I think I'm going to sing. I'm going to sing a little bit. I've got to sing in space.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: All right. So you kind of get a sense there of it's going to be a fun ride, I guess, for the six people on board this rocket system.

John, it will be traveling in about 60 to 68 miles from the Earth's surface. It's a ride that will last about 10 to 11 minutes. About three minutes in that capsule will separate from the rocket booster and then it will -- they will experience several minutes of weightlessness before they start descending back down to Earth here.

And that capsule will land just a few miles away from where it launches here in West Texas. And by the time it lands the parachutes will deploy and that capsule will be going about one mile and hour as it gently touches down here back on the ground north of Van Horn -- John.

BERMAN: It all happens pretty quickly. Time enough maybe for two or three songs from Katy Perry if she does choose to sing while in space.

LAVANDERA: Yeah.

BERMAN: Ed Lavandera, great to have you there. Keep us posted on all of the developments.

LAVANDERA: That's right.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right. And some other headlines we've been watching this morning.

Former Louisiana State University wide receiver and NFL prospect Kyren Lacy has died from what authorities say was a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Now, Lacy was involved in a police chase in Houston Sunday, then his vehicle suddenly crashed. And when authorities went to remove him from the car, they found Lacy with a -- Lacy with a gunshot wound. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

He had been facing criminal charges stemming from a fatal car accident in Louisiana in December. He was 24 years old.

Now, the FAA has announced that the company that operated the helicopter tour that tragically crashed in New York last week is shutting down immediately. The chopper went down in the Hudson River Thursday killing all six people on board -- an entire family, including three children, among them.

The company called New York Helicopter Tours was previously involved in two safety incidents investigated by federal aviation authorities. And now, New York Sen. Chuck Schumer is speaking up and calling for the company's license to be pulled. The FAA says it's launching a full review of the company's record and will continue working now with the NTSB on its investigation into this crash.

[07:55:14]

And 40 years after that fateful day in detention the cast of "The Breakfast Club" reunited for the first time publicly. There they are. All five stars were at Chicago's Comic and Entertainment Expo. Judd Nelson, Molly Ringwald, Ally Sheedy, Emilio Estevez, and Anthony Michael Hall. They look fantastic, I'm just going to say.

While on stage they went down memory lane talking about their experiences while filming the iconic movie in 1985, Sara.

SIDNER: I mean, I love that movie. Did you?

BOLDUAN: A great movie. SIDNER: It's such a good movie.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it is.

SIDNER: I would have liked to have been there, but alas, I was not. I was working -- anyhoo.

All right, now to international news. Overnight, Russia strikes in Ukraine having killed at least five people and injured several others just hours after a deadly attack on the city of Sumy that left at least 34 people dead, including children. The Palm Sunday attack in Sumy is now the deadliest Russian assault on Ukraine this year. Ukraine's allies were quick to condemn the strikes.

Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is warning that the threat of a world war is real.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKKY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): If we do not stand firm, he will advance further. It is not just idle speculation. The threat is real. Putin's ultimate goal is to revive the Russian empire and reclaim territories currently under NATO protection. And the United States, being part of NATO, means it will be involved in any potential conflict. Considering all of this I believe it could escalate into a world war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Joining me now is Sabrina Singh, former deputy Pentagon press secretary.

I want to just go off of what we just heard Zelenskyy saying. Do you agree that this could eventually turn into a world war -- that Russian wouldn't stop at Ukraine?

SABRINA SINGH, FORMER DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Well, we certainly hope that that's not the case. But Vladimir Putin, from the beginning of when he launched that war and invasion of Ukraine, has always had bigger ambitions and wants to expand that larger Soviet-era bloc. So what Volodymyr Zelenskyy is saying is not totally inaccurate.

We know that Putin has ambitions beyond Ukraine. He's continuing this war of attrition every single day. You're seeing that -- these lethal attacks over the weekend and frankly, over this month, killing more children every single day. So Russia is not serious about a ceasefire in any way and they're continuing to prove that by their attacks in Sumy and other places in Ukraine.

SIDNER: Ukrainian officials are accusing Russia of using cluster munitions, which are banned by 110 countries.

What does the choice of weapon tell you?

SINGH: Well, cluster munitions are incredibly lethal. And Ukraine, post this war, is going to have to sort through many of unexploded ordnances that are left on the battlefield.

When we were giving Ukraine arms and supporting Ukraine in their war under the previous administration -- the Biden administration -- we were very thoughtful about some of the weapons and attack systems that we were giving them -- some of these systems that help defend cities. But Ukraine is going to have to look long and hard at rebuilding, and that rebuilding process is going to take many, many years because of some of these cluster munitions and unexploded ordnances that you'll have on the battlefield going forward if there ever is a ceasefire that's put into place.

SIDNER: I do want to mention this. The EU's ambassador to Ukraine, Katarina Mathernova, called the attack, which occurred on Palm Sunday killing some churchgoers as well, a war crime.

The attack came just days after Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff met with President Vladimir Putin in Russia for more than four hours. And the day after that meeting Trump said he thought the situation between Ukraine and Russia was going OK, but that at a certain point you have to either -- and I'm quoting here -- "put up or shut up."

Russia appears to be just thumbing its nose at the Trump administration.

What do you think the responsible response by the United States should be here?

SINGH: Look, I mean, the responsible response would be to continue to support Ukraine full-throated. I mean, continuing to arm Ukraine. Continuing to supply military assistance. You've seen this administration sometimes shut off that intelligence sharing. I don't believe weapons packages have continued to flow under this administration.

And I think what you're also seeing here is an inexperienced diplomat in Steve Witkoff who is clearly letting Russia have the upper hand in these negotiations.

SIDNER: Um-hum.

SINGH: I mean, it was Witkoff, you have to remember, that spoke to Tucker Carlson and basically said that Russia could take those four eastern regions and hold those as if Ukraine doesn't have a role in its own sovereignty.

So I really think this administration is continuing to play into Russia hands, allowing Russian propaganda to seep into their talking points.

[08:00:00]