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New Tariff Whiplash As Trump's Showdown With China Deepens; Trump, Salvadoran Pres Make Clear Mistakenly Deported Maryland Man Won't Be Returned To U.S.; Trump Again Blames Zelensky For Russia's War Against Ukraine. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 14, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:22]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Stocks bounced back, but for how long? A tariff loophole was seen as good news by some investors, but President Trump warns it won't last forever. And the confusion is fueling fears the U.S. could face a recession in the not-too-distant future.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, arson at the Pennsylvania governor's mansion. A 38-year-old man in custody accused of attempted murder and setting the residence on fire while Josh Shapiro and his family were asleep in bed. That suspect also telling police what he planned to do if he found the Governor.

And an all-female journey to the edge of space. Blue Origin launching a star-studded suborbital mission.

We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

DEAN: Happening now, President Trump's escalating trade war with China is causing more confusion today. Just a short time ago, the President said tariffs on pharmaceuticals are, quote, "going to be like tariffs on cars." He then announced he's considering tariff exemptions for car companies. And then, when asked about exemptions and tariffs on Apple products and cell phones, he said, quote, "I'm a very flexible person. I don't change my mind, but I'm flexible." CNN Business and Politics Correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich is leading us off this hour with more on all of this.

A lot of contradictions there. Vanessa, and at this point, it's kind of another day that ends in day in terms of the uncertainty and confusion around all of this.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, a little bit of confusion. But the markets actually have been pretty steady today. Markets are up right now. And in particular, in that Oval Office setting, President Trump said that he was looking at exemptions for car parts, foreign car parts that were set to be taxed, tariffed, on May 3rd. And he said he'd be looking into sort of maybe making some exemptions around those. And the big three automakers, General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis, their stock really popped when he talked about putting those exemptions in place.

Those are three U.S. companies that have been in conversation with the administration around tariffs. Take a listen to what President Trump said in his own words just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm looking at something to help some of the car companies where they're switching to parts that were made in Canada, Mexico, and other places. And they need a little bit of time because they're going to make them here. But they need a little bit of time. So I'm talking about things like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: And there's no such thing as an all-American car anymore. Those big three automakers, they all import foreign parts in order to make vehicles. And ultimately, if those prices are more expensive on those parts, the cars will be more expensive for everyday consumers.

He also talked about what he was doing in the tech space. We know that on Friday, the administration announced that certain electronics, like phones and computers, would be exempt from tariffs, including those very high tariffs of 145 percent on China. But then, the administration said that they were looking at tariffs on semiconductors. And semiconductors is essentially like a chip. It can be found in your phone. It can be found in cars, laptops, jets, missiles.

These are key components that essentially make all electronics run. And the United States gets a lot of semiconductor chips from abroad, from China, from Taiwan. So now, you have the tech community waiting to see what that'll look like. Tech stocks have been a little bit choppy, a mixed picture. Apple, NVIDIA and Dell up right now. But NVIDIA was down earlier in the day as they're trying to make sense, Jessica, of what exactly is to come. Because ultimately, they then have to decide, Jessica, if there is an increased cost, are they going to pass that down to the consumer.

One economist estimated that with that high 145 percent tariff on China, iPhones would have cost $3,000. So, tech companies sigh of relief that that's not happening, but ultimately wondering what is still to come, Jessica.

DEAN: Absolutely. All right. Vanessa, thank you so much for walking us through all of that. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Let's get some perspective now from former Trump economic advisor, Stephen Moore.

Stephen, thank you so much for ...

STEPHEN MOORE, FORMER TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISOR: Hi, Boris.,

SANCHEZ: ... being with us.

MOORE: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: I'm not going to lie, it's been hard to keep track of all the tariff moves from this administration.

MOORE: It has, yes.

SANCHEZ: I imagine it might have been that way for you.

MOORE: What hour is it?

SANCHEZ: Yes, because they ...

MOORE: Exactly, it change a lot.

SANCHEZ: -- announce tariffs. They scale them back. They announced the wrong number. They have to correct it.

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They announce exceptions.

MOORE: Right.

SANCHEZ: Doesn't all of that just add to volatility?

MOORE: A little bit, no question about it. You know, we've seen that roller coaster ride ...

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MOORE: ... of the stock market over the last week, although I used to see some green on the screen today. I'm not a big fan of the kind of government picking winners and losers. If you're going to have a tariff policy, I think you should apply it to everybody across the board.

And the problem is that then whoever gets to knock on the door of the White House and gets the meeting with the President gets special interest provision. So, I think that Trump is kind of working out the kinks here, though. And I think at the end of the day, I think - I still think he's going to win some real concessions from these other countries, which is, I think, what all Americans would like to see.

SANCHEZ: What you're describing is really interesting because when you have these exceptions, you have folks, business people, trying to find a way to curry favor with the administration.

MOORE: That's right. Sure.

SANCHEZ: It leads to questions about ethics. I wonder what's in place to prevent some kind of cronyism.

MOORE: That's a good question. I mean, cronyism has been in Washington for as long as the capitalism in Washington. I don't like it. We'll see whether this is just a few exemptions that Trump is talking about or whether or not there are a constant stream of businessmen and women coming into the White House.

So, I don't think it's the - a very good way to make policy, personally. As I said, I like it all across the board. But I think at the end of the day, the goal is to get these other countries to lower their tariffs.

SANCHEZ: I want to get your thoughts ...

MOORE: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... on the administration vowing that more tariffs are coming, specifically on copper, computer chips, lumber, pharmaceuticals, critical minerals. All of this based on the idea that they're essential to national security. So, I'm curious what your thoughts are on the justification for invoking national security for these tariffs. And also, how quickly the U.S. can become self- sufficient with some of these critical things when China is threatening to cut off our access to things like critical minerals that are used for making computer chips, for example.

MOORE: Well, critical minerals is something I know a lot. We just did a big analysis where we estimate we have about $10 trillion of minerals in the United States. So we need a pro-mining policy. We have more minerals than any other country in the world in the mountains of Utah, and the Dakotas, and Montana and Colorado. But that's going to take some time to get that mining up and running.

So I forgot what the question was.

SANCHEZ: No, essentially, how quickly can the U.S. become self- sufficient?

MOORE: Oh, it's going to take a while with these things. And so that's why you're going to have an adjustment period. And that's why Wall Street is a little bit concerned about, well, okay, where are we going to get the chips or where are we going to get the critical minerals. But at the end of the day, look, Trump is not going to paralyze the economy.

He's going to be smart about it. He's going to make concessions when they're necessary. And I think, you know, Wall Street's pretty pleased about that. And so, our - a lot of American men and women are happy about it, too, because they think they can bring more - why can't we bring more production back here at home and create jobs for Americans.

SANCHEZ: I do wonder how happy patients will be if tariffs are installed on pharmaceuticals and their medicine becomes more expensive.

MOORE: Well, you know what? That's something I do know a little about. What Europe is doing right now is imposing price controls on the drugs and vaccines that are developed here in the United States. And when they do that, that makes Americans pay more. That's not fair.

I mean, we've had a lot of discussions about how to lower drug prices here in America. When they - when all these other countries aren't paying their fair share, that raises our prices. So, I think most people would be happy with this idea of, look, you're going to get rid of your non-tariff trade barriers because they're not fair to Americans.

SANCHEZ: So do you think that prices will go down as a result of tariffs on pharmaceuticals eventually?

MOORE: For drugs, yes, I do. Because you've heard these stories. Americans pay sometimes three to four times.

SANCHEZ: Exorbitant prices, sure.

MOORE: Sorry?

SANCHEZ: Exorbitant prices on ...

MOORE: Exactly. And this is a way of bringing them down.

SANCHEZ: -- (INAUDIBLE) ...

MOORE: But on tariffs in general, look, a tariff is a tax, right? You're putting a tax on something. So if you buy shoes from China and there's a tariff, you're going to pay more.

SANCHEZ: That a consumer pays. That a consumer pays.

MOORE: That's right.

SANCHEZ: So, if it's something like a medication that's necessary for someone's health, if they're paying more, doesn't that make life more difficult for them?

MOORE: Well, the whole idea, though, here is we - what we want is as much innovation. We want to find the cures for cancer, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, all these things.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MOORE: The more that these other countries are helping bear some of the costs of that, the sooner we're going to find the race for the cure, which is a good thing.

SANCHEZ: So that's an interesting perspective to take. I want to get your thoughts quickly on the National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett claiming the White House has received more than 10 deals that look very promising from some of the nations that the administration installed these reciprocal tariffs on. Eighty-five days remaining in the 90-day pause.

MOORE: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Some of these other deals took years to hammer out. I mean, how optimistic are you that this is going to get done in time?

MOORE: Well ...

SANCHEZ: Do you anticipate an extension?

MOORE: We'll see. I mean, look, the first thing that has to happen, Boris, is Germany, and France, and Italy, and Spain and Japan are going to have to get on the phone, call up the President, and make a deal. This guy's a deal maker. He wrote the book, "The Art of the Deal."

And I think he said it in a clever way to say, look, the last one in line gets the worst deal. So, you better call in soon because you get a better deal. You know, it's like that game of musical chairs. You don't want to be the one left standing when the music stops.

[15:10:04]

So, at the end of the day, I've been around Trump a lot. I think he knows what he's doing. I don't always agree with every position he makes and strategy. But I do think at the end of the day, six months to a year from now, I think we'll have a much leveler playing field, a much fairer trade regime that benefits everybody.

SANCHEZ: I have to ask you before we go ...

MOORE: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... because critics are openly wondering what these trade deals might look like moving into the future and whether Trump labels something that isn't that different from what's in place now as success - just to call it a success. For example, he brokered the USMCA, a deal that he now calls essentially a failure that needs to be rewritten. You were there for the USMCA.

MOORE: Yes.

SANCHEZ: What do you make of that kind of backtracking and that labeling that he does?

MOORE: I - look, I was a big fan of USMCA. I applauded it when the President signed it.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MOORE: So I don't quite under - look, if I were advising the President right now, and I'm not, but if I were, I'd say, look, let's really concentrate on the bad actors. Canada and Mexico are our allies. Let's really go after China, which is the big, you know, adversary and enemy of the United States right now. And, you know, to do that, you need to unify the rest of the world against China, so.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Stephen Moore, very much appreciate your perspective.

MOORE: Thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: Thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure.

Still plenty more news to come on News Central. It appears that the Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador will not be coming back to the United States anytime soon. During talks at the White House today, President Trump and Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele both insisted that Kilmar Abrego Garcia should stay at the infamous prison in El Salvador, where he's been for almost a month.

That's despite him not being convicted of any crimes and despite a Supreme Court order telling the Trump administration to facilitate his return to the U.S., a decision that the administration is interpreting very differently than the judge who's overseeing this case. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now.

Priscilla, both presidents indicated that they're incapable of releasing Abrego Garcia. Walk us through how they explain that.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The resounding message in that Oval Office meeting was that the President of El Salvador does not want to return Abrego Garcia. And the US, the President Trump and his aides, saying that really it's up to El Salvador to decide this. What facilitating might look like to them. This is something that Attorney General Pam Bondi spoke about, is sending a plane, for example.

But again, only if El Salvador were to want to return him. This has been at the crux of this legal battle, is this mistakenly deported man, mistakenly because the Trump administration said that they sent him there because of an administrative error, and has been ongoing in terms of whether and how the administration is facilitating his retrieval.

Now, what was telling in this back and forth was what the president of El Salvador said, again, because Abrego Garcia is considered to be in Salvadoran custody. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAYIB BUKELE, PRESIDENT OF EL SALVADOR: How can I smuggle - how can I return him to the United States? Like if I smuggle him into the United States? Or whether I do - of course, I'm not going to do it. It's like, I mean, the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States? I don't have the power to return him to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, the smuggling term there sort of disregards what the Attorney General had said only moments earlier, which is to say that they would facilitate the return if El Salvador wanted by, for example, sending that plane over. But again, this is an ongoing legal proceeding. We'll see what the Justice Department files today as part of those daily updates that were ordered by the federal judge and tomorrow, there will be a hearing in the case.

So, this is still developing. But the resounding message from the leaders of both the U.S. and El Salvador is that there really doesn't appear to be any pathway for the return of this Salvadoran national.

SANCHEZ: Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much for the update. Jessica? DEAN: And joining us now to discuss all of this, former federal judge John E. Jones III. He's president - he's currently the president of Dickinson College.

Judge, thanks for being here with us.

I want to start first with something that the Attorney General Pam Bondi said during today's meeting. And she said that it's up to El Salvador. If they want to return him, that's not up to us. Then President Bukele said, "I don't have the power to return him to the United States."

At this point, it seems clear that Abrego Garcia is not going to be returned in this environment. So where does that leave him legally?

JOHN E. JONES III, FORMER CHIEF JUDGE, U.S. MIDDLE DISTRICT COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA: Well, I think, Jessica, that the administration has a preposterous position here. It's not as preposterous as the President of El Salvador would say it is. It's actually the reverse of that.

And where I think we are is Judge Xinis is going to have to convene tomorrow, as she's going to, and have a hearing. And she's probably going to - I hate to say it this way - but she's going to play hockey puck with the government's attorney because she knows that they're playing games with her.

[15:15:02]

And I think she has some things that she can do at this point, but it's going to force another confrontation.

Because she knows that they're playing games with her. And I think she has some things that she can do at this point, but it's going to force another confrontation.

DEAN: And the Attorney General also said the Supreme Court ruled that if El Salvador wanted to return him, we would facilitate that. She said that meant that the U.S. would provide a plane. The administration has really categorized this Supreme Court ruling as a validation of their beliefs, their actions here. Is that how the Supreme Court ruled in your view?

JONES: Not at all, Jessica. I mean, this is - this strains all credulity and common sense. What the opinion in the Supreme Court pivoted on was the word facilitate versus effectuate in Judge Xinis' original order. They said that was a little too strong. They want the judge to be deferential to the President's duties as they relate to foreign affairs.

However, now look, we pay El Salvador six plus million dollars a year to maintain this prison. This guy, you know, is essentially a client that is the President of El Salvador of the United States. So you know that he would give this guy back if he thought it would jeopardize the contract that he has with the United States.

I think what Judge Xinis, Jessica, is going to have to do is she's going to have to enter another order. She's going to have to give a deadline. And she's going to say, stop playing games with me. Stop temporizing. And here's the date on which you're going to have to get him back.

Effectuate means you're going to get him back. It may take a little time. She'll give him a little bit of space to do that. And they'll have two choices, the government. The one choice they have is they can go again to the Supreme Court on the shadow docket or emergency docket, take it back up, and ask the court to clarify what apparently the government doesn't understand in plain English. Or she can let - they can let the order stand and her order remains. And then, the government risks being in contempt of her order by not getting him back.

This is outrageous. I mean, they call him a terrorist when, in fact, they've admitted previously that he was deported in error. I mean, there's got to be the rule of law and some due process in this somewhere.

DEAN: There was also that moment when Trump was asked about the possibility of deporting U.S. citizens to El Salvador. And he said, if it's a homegrown criminal, I have no problem. And he said, we're studying the laws right now. And if we can do it, that's great. Is that legal?

JONES: No, it's not legal. Good luck with that. I mean, you know, the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States governs cruel and unusual punishment. And, you know, if you put a prisoner in a foreign country, the Eighth Amendment, they're going to say, doesn't apply.

Now, just imagine. I mean, that protects prisoners from being tortured, from conditions of confinement, even losing their lives or being injured. This isn't some bleeding-heart issue, by the way. The American Constitution extends protections even to people who are incarcerated. Well, they're not going to have that if they're in a foreign country. There's no way they're going to be able to do that. That's just so much bluster, in my opinion.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Judge John E. Jones III, thank you for sharing your perspective on this. We appreciate it.

JONES: Thanks, Jessica.

Still to come, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is asking for a strong response from the world after a deadly Russian attack on residents who were attending Palm Sunday church services.

Plus, the Pennsylvania governor and his family forced to flee the governor's mansion after it was set on fire overnight. A 38-year-old man now in custody.

And a little later, Blue Origin launches a star-studded all-female crew on a space tourism mission. That and much more, still to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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SANCHEZ: President Trump is again blaming Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy for Russia's war against Ukraine. During his White House meeting with the President of El Salvador today, Trump acknowledged that Russian President Putin started the war against Ukraine, but continued to cast blame on Zelenskyy and former President Biden for not stopping it.

DEAN: And all of this comes as overnight Russian strikes in Ukraine have killed at least five people and injured several others. That attack coming just hours after a deadly Palm Sunday attack on the city of Sumy that left at least 34 people dead, that included children. CNN's Alex Marquardt is joining us now.

And Alex, Russia launched this attack just days after Steve Witkoff met with Vladimir Putin. This is one of the deadliest attacks we've seen.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Since 2023, and Witkoff has become Trump's top envoy, essentially to the world, certainly to the Middle East and Russia. So, it's a - it's really remarkable and doesn't make sense in a number of ways that Russia would do this just two days after Witkoff sat down for more than four hours with Putin, when they met on Friday.

President Trump also posted online that Russia needs to get moving on the - on getting to a ceasefire and a peace deal in Ukraine. This was a horrific attack, guys. It's what we call a double tap in that there were two separate strikes and they used ballistic missiles and cluster munitions that, as you know, are indiscriminate. More than 30 people killed, including several children, more than 100 people injured.

We're hearing some angry reaction, of course, from around the world. President Trump, though, for his part, appearing to give Putin and Russia the benefit of the doubt, saying twice over the weekend that it appears that this could have been a mistake. But we are hearing angry reactions from American officials like Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying this is why we need to get to a peace deal and Keith Kellogg, the envoy for Ukraine, accusing Russia of crossing any line of decency.

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But as is always the question, do the people around Trump, will they be able to convince him that perhaps, in this case, the timeline that President Trump sees for ending the war in Ukraine, which he wants to end today, could be shorter than how President Putin sees it. Because, of course, the Ukrainians and Europeans have been shouting that you can't trust Putin, that he actually doesn't want a peace deal.

SANCHEZ: And as Trump and others within his administration echo some Russian talking points, you have Zelenskyy doing an interview in which he says that he believes that the Russian view of things is taking hold in the United States. MARQUARDT: He said it's prevailing, some very sharp words from President Zelenskyy, and you need to look no farther than what we heard from President Trump today, saying, okay, yes, Russia started the war, but Ukraine did as well. And we've heard that from President Trump in the past. And obviously, it's very worrying to hear those Kremlin talking points reflected by the Trump administration that it was actually Ukraine that provoked this war, that it was not Russia's fault, in fact, that the blame lies with Ukraine.

And President Zelenskyy specifically named J.D. Vance with whom, of course, he had that shouting match in the Oval Office in this interview last night with 60 MINUTES. Let's take a listen to a bit of that.

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SCOTT PELLEY, CBS NEWS HOST, "60 MINUTES": "I don't want to engage in the altered reality that is being presented to me. First and foremost, we did not launch an attack to start the war. It seems to me that the Vice President is somehow justifying Putin's actions."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: So, out of this attack in Sumy, I think there's a question now, does the frustration level in the Trump administration get high enough where President Trump actually applies some kind of punishment to the Russians, realizing that perhaps they're dragging their feet too much, that they don't want to get to a peace deal, and really step up that pressure on Moscow.

DEAN: All right. I guess we will see.

Alex Marquardt, thanks so much for that.

A man accused of setting fire to the Pennsylvania governor's residence has been arrested. How close he got to the governor and his family as they were sleeping, just ahead.

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